N40 - Cork City Northern Transportation Project (formerly North Ring Road) [feasibility study]

Chris_5339762

No, it was long after 1999 that they removed the ability to change lane. Probably about 10 years ago now it was done.

JLT looks and feels much narrower (and not as high) as the Limerick tunnel, which is arrow straight. Sightlines perhaps?

Markcheese

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

No, it was long after 1999 that they removed the ability to change lane. Probably about 10 years ago now it was done.

JLT looks and feels much narrower (and not as high) as the Limerick tunnel, which is arrow straight. Sightlines perhaps?

Might also have something to do with the queuing traffic at dunkettle,
Either way its not exactly a hardship to stay in lane for 6 hundred odd metres,
(even if it does feel a little odd when you're the only car in the tunnel pootleing along at 80kph..

Also having witnessed some of the dopey Lane changing, especially north bound, it'd be a good thing to enforce the lane changing with a camera (for motor bikes to)

hans aus dtschl

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

No, it was long after 1999 that they removed the ability to change lane. Probably about 10 years ago now it was done.

JLT looks and feels much narrower (and not as high) as the Limerick tunnel, which is arrow straight. Sightlines perhaps?

I was thinking same.
The tunnel was internally clad with fireproofing quite a long while after it was opened, which reduced the width a little bit. i think the new cladding came in at about the time of the Shannon tunnel.

It'd be great if there was better enforcement of illegal driving on the N40 to be honest, the amount of crashes is ridiculous. Obviously traffic volumes are certainly an issue, but you see some amount of crazy stunts at rush hour.

I recently witnessed someone late-braking to get past me onto the Bloomfield exit ramp. They were on the hatched markings overtaking me, going 80-100kmh into the sharp bend.

People take serious risks, and for what: to get to work? Screw that.

marno21

Funding of €250,000 for this in 2020.

This is the first explicit mention of funding I have seen for this in at least the last 5 years.

Great to see.

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

Funding of €250,000 for this in 2020.

This is the first explicit mention of funding I have seen for this in at least the last 5 years.

Great to see.

Is that just funding for research on the project?

Shedite27

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Is that just funding for research on the project?

You're definitely not going to be building anything with €250k

Cork Trucker

Shedite27 wrote: »

You're definitely not going to be building anything with €250k

Clearly. Is it consultants fees is what I’m curious about. That would suck up alot of that funding.

marno21

The 2020 allocation is to begin planning, from the very beginning

It’s unclear yet what’s planned, whether it’s the eastern quadrant, western or both. Eastern at least is most likely. Both would be fantastic

We were told by Coventry before the NRR East would be lumped in with the M20 but this theory seems to have been debunked

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

The 2020 allocation is to begin planning, from the very beginning

It’s unclear yet what’s planned, whether it’s the eastern quadrant, western or both. Eastern at least is most likely. Both would be fantastic

We were told by Coventry before the NRR East would be lumped in with the M20 but this theory seems to have been debunked

Even half of the road would be fantastic to me. That said, the N40 traffic situation really needs completion of the ring to take pressure off the tunnel.

Cork Trucker

Fùcking Seriously :mad:

https://twitter.com/echolivecork/status/1215290104379592704?s=21

fonzy951

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fùcking Seriously :mad:

https://twitter.com/echolivecork/status/1215290104379592704?s=21

It's disgraceful, the existing north ring road is a badly maintained boreen running through housing estates and communities which is currently not fit for purpose, never mind in 7 years!!! Also why the hell are Limerick Council in charge of the designing this critical project in Cork City, beyond belief, CCC should have been given the resources to handle this project.

FG have been a disaster for Cork with their lies and spin, roll on the election!!!

AugustusMinimus

FG have been beyond a disaster for Cork. Not one infrastructure project started in all the time they’ve been in office. Absolutely extraordinary stat that.

Aontachtoir

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

FG have been beyond a disaster for Cork. Not one infrastructure project started in all the time they’ve been in office. Absolutely extraordinary stat that.

The Macroom bypass is ready to start. Dunkettle has gone back to tender to avoid the complaints of overspending that dogged the children's hospital. The M28 is held up in the courts but nearly through planning. The N40 flyovers are long complete. The M20 has finally been fully reactivated.

I don't think your assessment is entirely fair. Things are finally happening again.

Cork Trucker

Aontachtoir wrote: »

The Macroom bypass is ready to start. Dunkettle has gone back to tender to avoid the complaints of overspending that dogged the children's hospital. The M28 is held up in the courts but nearly through planning. The N40 flyovers are long complete. The M20 has finally been fully reactivated.

I don't think your assessment is entirely fair. Things are finally happening again.

The N40 flyovers began/finished in July 11/13. FG came into power in March 2011. Fianna Fáil signed off on that before they were kicked out

AugustusMinimus

Aontachtoir wrote: »

The Macroom bypass is ready to start. Dunkettle has gone back to tender to avoid the complaints of overspending that dogged the children's hospital. The M28 is held up in the courts but nearly through planning. The N40 flyovers are long complete. The M20 has finally been fully reactivated.

I don't think your assessment is entirely fair. Things are finally happening again.

What’s not fair. Name a project started under FG.

Chris_5339762

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fùcking Seriously :mad:

https://twitter.com/echolivecork/status/1215290104379592704?s=21

Also if you dig down in that article they're only really thinking about the North Ring east (M20 to M8) and are pretty much categorically saying that the M20 project will NOT include this section, they'll just run the M20 into the current route.

marno21

Absolutely nothing new in that article, apart from the latest round of civil servant language excuses for not building this. We were told by Simon Coveney the day the NDP was published that the North Ring Road was included in the M20 plan. It turns out this statement was not in line with reality, and now it has become that the M20 will set out a junction location for where it will meet the future, unbuilt, M20.

However, TII have made two allocations in 2020:

€250k for "N40 Cork North Ring Road", and 200k for "TEN-T Route Study". Previously I had assumed that the TEN-T route study would have loosely related to the NRR in some way, but it has a separate allocation this year. The TEN-T Route Study probably has something to do with Cork having a TEN-T Core airport and seaport, and the roads linking these two to the carpark N40 and the radial route network are either in terrible condition, overcongested or both.

On a personal note, the fact that the plan is now to dump M20 traffic into Blackpool has to be one of the most moronic decisions I have seen in the roads ecosystem in Ireland in quite some time. I would love to see some origin and destination figures for traffic entering Cork on the N20 at present, and how much of it wants to go to the city centre. The R635 is completely inadequate for a motorway volume of traffic approaching the city, and a motorway city bypass to the north is a must for a city of this size.

All in all, another kick in the teeth for Cork. But who's even counting any more?

Aontachtoir

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

What’s not fair. Name a project started under FG.

All the projects I mentioned above were commenced under FG (although the N40 flyovers may have been started under FF/Greens - am open to corrections). Are you specifically restricting your request to projects which went to construction in Cork since 2010?

If so, is that a fair standard to choose?

Chris_5339762

marno21 wrote: »

On a personal note, the fact that the plan is now to dump M20 traffic into Blackpool has to be one of the most moronic decisions I have seen in the roads ecosystem in Ireland in quite some time. I would love to see some origin and destination figures for traffic entering Cork on the N20 at present, and how much of it wants to go to the city centre. The R635 is completely inadequate for a motorway volume of traffic approaching the city, and a motorway city bypass to the north is a must for a city of this size.

All in all, another kick in the teeth for Cork. But who's even counting any more?

I'll still be going M8 and via Ballylanders to Limerick unless its an early Sunday morning.


It really is up with the stupidity of the decision to upgrade the Naas Road and leave Newlands as the one and only set of traffic lights, and then to not upgrade them again when the M50 was widened and the Red Cow was grade seperated.

hans aus dtschl

Short term thinking, pure and simple. Any who know me on here will know I'm not fond of the "more motorways" schtick, but the idea that you can dump M20 traffic into Blackpool is just wrong.

Perhaps they're hoping to dump the extra southbound M20 traffic into P&R's at Blarney? That would be extremely optimistic if so. And it neglects the Northbound traffic entirely.

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Short term thinking, pure and simple. Any who know me on here will know I'm not fond of the "more motorways" schtick, but the idea that you can dump M20 traffic into Blackpool is just wrong.

Perhaps they're hoping to dump the extra southbound M20 traffic into P&R's at Blarney? That would be extremely optimistic if so. And it neglects the Northbound traffic entirely.

And it almost totally ignores the volume of M20 originating port bound traffic that will have to negotiate the suburbs to get to Ringaskiddy

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

Absolutely nothing new in that article, apart from the latest round of civil servant language excuses for not building this. We were told by Simon Coveney the day the NDP was published that the North Ring Road was included in the M20 plan. It turns out this statement was not in line with reality, and now it has become that the M20 will set out a junction location for where it will meet the future, unbuilt, M20.

However, TII have made two allocations in 2020:

€250k for "N40 Cork North Ring Road", and 200k for "TEN-T Route Study". Previously I had assumed that the TEN-T route study would have loosely related to the NRR in some way, but it has a separate allocation this year. The TEN-T Route Study probably has something to do with Cork having a TEN-T Core airport and seaport, and the roads linking these two to the carpark N40 and the radial route network are either in terrible condition, overcongested or both.

On a personal note, the fact that the plan is now to dump M20 traffic into Blackpool has to be one of the most moronic decisions I have seen in the roads ecosystem in Ireland in quite some time. I would love to see some origin and destination figures for traffic entering Cork on the N20 at present, and how much of it wants to go to the city centre. The R635 is completely inadequate for a motorway volume of traffic approaching the city, and a motorway city bypass to the north is a must for a city of this size.

All in all, another kick in the teeth for Cork. But who's even counting any more?

One must consider the Cork Northern Distributor Road (CNDR) which is more likley to be completed before the Cork North Ring Road (CNRR) and may reduce the requirement for the CNRR.

hans aus dtschl

Limerick74 wrote: »

One must consider the Cork Northern Distributor Road (CNDR) which is more likley to be completed before the Cork North Ring Road (CNRR) and may reduce the requirement for the CNRR.

I'm not sure I agree with you: I don't see any movement or discussion on the CNDR whatsoever?

Limerick74

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with you: I don't see any movement or discussion on the CNDR whatsoever?

After the final CMATS is published in coming months it should get some traction

marno21

Limerick74 wrote: »

One must consider the Cork Northern Distributor Road (CNDR) which is more likley to be completed before the Cork North Ring Road (CNRR) and may reduce the requirement for the CNRR.

I'd say there's merit and requirement for both. They are both intended to serve two different purposes:

1. The CNDR is intended to be one general traffic lane each way with bus lanes and cycle lanes. It's to have at grade junctions and run through suburban areas with low traffic speeds.

2. The CNRR is intended to run between the N22 and the M20 to the M8 with no intermediate junctions, intending to serve the needs of traffic bypassing the city entirely and catering for long distance high speed traffic and freight needs.

Build the CNDR with no CNRR and you have trucks and long distance traffic clogging the suburbs and freight running alongside cyclists

Build the CNRR with no CNDR and you have poor suburban access and poor Northside traffic flows

It's the same on the southside, but in reverse. At the minute we have the N40 doing both roles with too many junctions and poor non-N40 permeability across the suburbs

The Northside is a blank slate with an opportunity to learn from the mistakes made on the Southside.

That's aside from the large questions about CMATS delivery plans and the funding profiles and sources for the projects outlined in the plan.

marno21

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/177616/1/0

Tender out for Phase 0-2 of TII’s project management guidelines for this scheme. This is different to most other similar tenders in that it only carries the project up to the end of the route selection phase.

My reading of this is that TII and Cork County Council plan to get the final route selected for this and freeze it there. At some stage in the future it can proceed to planning and design. Open to correction on that though - but this is the first contract of this type I’ve seen.

Pete_Cavan

marno21 wrote: »

My reading of this is that TII and Cork County Council plan to get the final route selected for this and freeze it there. At some stage in the future it can proceed to planning and design. Open to correction on that though - but this is the first contract of this type I’ve seen.

Could be. Trying to look at it in the most positive light possible, perhaps this appointment is for a very wide scope project stretching from N22 to M8 which they expect to get cut down as stages progress. Maybe they want to get a full route determined and full feasibility study in place and then decide how to proceed when armed with that information?

marno21

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Could be. Trying to look at it in the most positive light possible, perhaps this appointment is for a very wide scope project stretching from N22 to M8 which they expect to get cut down as stages progress. Maybe they want to get a full route determined and full feasibility study in place and then decide how to proceed when armed with that information?

My guess is that the short term priority is selecting a route and protecting it from development.

There's a review of the NDP planned and if this gets included the hope would then be that it's advanced beyond route selection. It's in CMATS too which helps it from a policy point of view.

marno21

Examiner article:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40079348.html

Not a whole pile of new info in there

Cork Trucker

https://twitter.com/tfitzgeraldcork/status/1326462586506928128?s=21