Can you force someone to be a dad?

goodmum

Can you force someone to see their child?

I won't bore you with the details because I'm sure you've heard them before, there are many women like me out there.

Briefly, my ex and I split when my daughter was 6 months - he had shown little interest in her up to that point. He saw her on and off for the first year and then nothing. I get maintenance after 5 court visits.

My daughter is now 10 and asks for her daddy ALOT. He lives quite locally and has been told by his mother, that she really wants to see him. But he has said no.

Apart from the fact that my heart is broken at his callousness, I wonder if I can force him to at least see her? She really just wants to put a face to a name and I haven't told her that he's not interested. I know some of you may think that I'm insane to even WANT this many in my daughters life, and obviously, I don't. But if you saw her little face when she asks me when can she see him, you'd understand why I'm even thinking this way. Thanks

bushy...

goodmum wrote: »

My daughter is now 10 and asks for her daddy ALOT. He lives quite locally and has been told by his mother, that she really wants to see him. But he has said no.

Are you sure the she is actually passing on the message ? may not be easy but probably best to ask him yourself.

bladespin

No, you can't.

Personally I wouldn't want someone who abandoned a child like this anywhere near it.

(I'm male and a father)

Lab_Mouse

Legally the only thing you can force on him is maintaince I'm afraid.

Personally speaking I could never ignore a child I fathered even if afterwards I split from the mother.But thats just me.

Also I would be careful about forcing a meeting with him as if he reacted badly it would affect the kid a lot.

If the grandparents want to see the kid,let them but at a neutral place.

It's a tough one and I hope you get it sorted out.

goodmum

She's passing on the message alright, and he's getting it. he just can't seem to put his hatred for me (which was over 10yrs ago now) behind him and accept his daughter.

I don't want him anywhere near her either -I really don't.

but I'm heartbroken for my daughter - she just really wants to see him. I know as she gets a bit older she'll realise what a pr*ck he actually is for herself, but she's still a bit young to figure that one out. For now, she just knows that me and her daddy made her, and that we kept arguing so we split up and daddy has been very busy...(over the past 10 years...!!).

She's recently met a new friend who's dad is VERY actively involved in her life, even though she doesn't live with him. I think that's where the questions are coming from lately.

So the answer is no then?

beth-lou

I don't think you can force him. And I would worry about how it would affect her to be around someone who haas absolutely no interest in her.

The only thing you could do is meet him face to face and tell how it is breaking your heart and explain the situation as you have here.

Otherwise, I'm afraid you'll have to leave it and try to talk to your daught about it. It really is hear breaking. So sorry for you and her.

goodmum

I coudln't possibly tell him it was breaking MY heart - he'd be delighted!

My question should really have been is there a law or a convention or something that ensures that a parent at least acknowledges their child, apart from financially?

I've said it before. I don't want his 'man' around my daughter. I really don't. And I believe that if/when she ever meets him she'll think 'Wha??? THIS is my dad...what an a*s!!' but will have come to that conclusion herself. Somehow, in her little head she has begun to believe that her dad will take her to the cinema or buy her a hannah montannah duvet cover (another one!) and has created a few 'dad fantasies' about him. Unfortunately, as much as I tell her that this probably won't happen, I think she needs to experience the hurt for herself to REALLY believe it. Am I making sense?

I done as much as I can by way of protecting her from the hurt and pain of this idiot rejecting her - I accepted long ago that he won't be part of her life - and I think she needs to accept it now, but she needs to hear it from him....now I'm crying...who'd have kids,eh???

beth-lou

Oh you poor thing. I don't know what to say....

Have you told her outright that he doesn't want to be a Dad? Or is it kind of all a bit up in the air? Does she see his parents at all?

I don't think there is a law to make someone become emotionally involved.
Have you considered talking to some sort of counsellor about it and how to address it?

Sorry I'm not much use.

goodmum

Firstly, no I haven't actually said 'No, your dad doesn't want to be a dad'. I suppose I should have at this stage...but it's such a difficult thing to tell a child. Particularly a 10yr old who thinks daddy is going to come on the white horse and rescue her one day...

She has little contact with parents - they don't appear that interested either. Luckily, my own mam and dad are amazing..

I dunno...I'm at a loss..how do people handle this situation??

goodmum

BTW, it's not a law that forces someone to become emotionally involved I'm looking for.

It's more a law that says this child has a right to KNOW her dad.

One meeting with him and I'm sure she'll begin to figure it out for herself...

di11on

Oh that poor girl.

To be honest, if you feel you have to force him, she's probably better off not seeing him. The pain of not seeing/knowing her dad may be less than the pain of rejection when she sees him?

But that's not for anyone except you and her to say. Who knows, if he saw her more he may realise what he's missing and stop being an ass.

Having daughters myself, it's very hard to imagine how you woudn't want to be involved in their lives. I consider it an awesome privilege to be involved in my girlies lives and how someone could forego that, I will never understand. He's missing out. Big time.

Have you tried proposing to meet up with the dad with the specific and only purpose of discussing the situation? It would be good if you met somewhere neutral and tried to lay aside ALL the other issues between you and just discuss this specific issue with the dad. You could just explain that she asks about her dad a lot and you think it would be really great if he made an effort to get to know her. You've no agenda only your daughter. You're willing to put aside the stuff between you and faciltate the relationship.

I hope it works out OP... your daughter deserves it.

goodmum

It's funny I really admire men like you who do right by their children and who feel the emotion one SHOULD feel towards your own flesh and blood. And then I think why should I admire them, it's the norm! Why would they feel any other way - any different that the same way I feel towards my own daughter. You would think it's just human nature to have these feelings.

But then I'm reminded of my ex.

yes, over the years ive tried to initiate contact but no joy...its not happening

The Corinthian

Can you force someone to be a mum?

And in reality the answer is no, some women are not interested in becoming mothers, or not at that specific time or with that specific father, but generally you don't really hear about it as it tends to be quietly dealt with in the UK. Some men are no different, except that the problem cannot be so quietly dealt with.

So no, and these will be the ones who will generally tell you from day one (or close enough) that they don't.

I do think there is another scenario however, which is where some men are will not reject parenthood, but end up doing so in the longer term anyway. There are probably lots of reasons for why this happens - sometimes the fault is with the father, sometimes with the mother and the vast majority of the time I suspect that it is down to the pair of them as many of these problems come down to the relationship between them.

In that case, no again - that is you can't 'force' someone to be a parent, and if you think you can then that is probably the reason you have to - however, you can encourage or 'persuade' them, although it might take a long time and a lot of bridge building to do so.

So I would look at both of those cases differently, as with one there is hope and the other never was.

hallelujajordan

goodmum wrote: »

I've said it before. I don't want his 'man' around my daughter. I really don't. And I believe that if/when she ever meets him she'll think 'Wha??? THIS is my dad...what an a*s!!' but will have come to that conclusion herself. Somehow, in her little head she has begun to believe that her dad will take her to the cinema or buy her a hannah montannah duvet cover (another one!) and has created a few 'dad fantasies' about him. Unfortunately, as much as I tell her that this probably won't happen, I think she needs to experience the hurt for herself to REALLY believe it. Am I making sense?

Not really tbh . . Others have answered the legal question and its clear that there is No way to legally force contact between your daughter and her father. However, I am intrigued at the thought that if there were a legal mechanism you would employ it and you would put your daughter into such an emtionally dangerous situation. . .

surely the most important thing is to protect your daughter and the best way to do this is to a) try to explain the situation to her as openly and honestly as you can but let her know that she is loved by lots and lots of people and b) keep him as far away from this man as you possibly can.

the_syco

I'd say leave the subject alone. If you somehow forced him to meet the daughter, he could be great, or he could use the child as a weapon to hurt you. I'd say the latter, from what you've said.

Not knowing the father until later years may be better than knowing the father hates her (esp for reasons that she won't understand).

F**k it, sounds like the kid is better off not knowing.

goodmum

"Can you force someone to be a mum?

And in reality the answer is no, some women are not interested in becoming mothers, or not at that specific time or with that specific father, but generally you don't really hear about it as it tends to be quietly dealt with in the UK. Some men are no different, except that the problem cannot be so quietly dealt with."

Completely and utterly nothing to do with my situation. My post isn't about mothers who aren't interested. It's about my ex who is not interested - who happens to be a man. This is not a man-bashing post. I'm asking a question about my own circumstances.

'Not knowing the father until later years may be better than knowing the father hates her'

She will obviously never know her father hates her because he obviously doesn't - how could he hate her, when he doesn't know her??

'However, I am intrigued at the thought that if there were a legal mechanism you would employ it and you would put your daughter into such an emtionally dangerous situation. . . '

I can't for the life of me figure out why you would be intrigued by this. I obviously wouldn't allow my daughter to see him alone and I obvioulsy wouldn't allow her to be put in any emotionally dangerous situation. What kind of a mother do you think I am?

Some of you don't seem to understand. I have a 10 year old daughter who has a vision of her dad coming along on his white horse and rescuing her. This is based on the fact that she doesn't know him and she has created this fantasy for herself.

However, I much prefer to deal with the reality of the situation. I will never talk badly about him to her. I have never called him names or told her how horrible I believe he is. It's not my place to tell her what I really think of him. My hope is that she will meet him at some point and figure it out for herself.

Her fantasy isn't real and in reality yes, she'll be crushed when she realises that he's an a*shole. But I would prefer to support her through that time and move on with her life than for her to create an even bigger fantasy in her own head over the next few years which is based on nothing other than notions of what a dad should be, that she's sees on TV or wherever.

Having said that, the a*shole won't meet her to allow her to come to her own conclusions about him. And that's why I questioned the 'law' around allowing a child to know its parent.

Take a look at this which I found from the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child...



Article 7

1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.

Parents. Plural.

Comments?

hallelujajordan

goodmum wrote: »

'However, I am intrigued at the thought that if there were a legal mechanism you would employ it and you would put your daughter into such an emtionally dangerous situation. . . '

I can't for the life of me figure out why you would be intrigued by this. I obviously wouldn't allow my daughter to see him alone and I obvioulsy wouldn't allow her to be put in any emotionally dangerous situation. What kind of a mother do you think I am?

Some of you don't seem to understand. I have a 10 year old daughter who has a vision of her dad coming along on his white horse and rescuing her. This is based on the fact that she doesn't know him and she has created this fantasy for herself.

However, I much prefer to deal with the reality of the situation. I will never talk badly about him to her. I have never called him names or told her how horrible I believe he is. It's not my place to tell her what I really think of him. My hope is that she will meet him at some point and figure it out for herself.

Her fantasy isn't real and in reality yes, she'll be crushed when she realises that he's an a*shole. But I would prefer to support her through that time and move on with her life than for her to create an even bigger fantasy in her own head over the next few years which is based on nothing other than notions of what a dad should be, that she's sees on TV or wherever.

Having said that, the a*shole won't meet her to allow her to come to her own conclusions about him. And that's why I questioned the 'law' around allowing a child to know its parent.

Take a look at this which I found from the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child...



Article 7

1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.

Parents. Plural.

Comments?

I'm sure you are a very good mum (It says so in your username:D)

However, your daughter's father is not interested in having a relationship with her, period. . . For you to use a legal mechanism (if it were available) to try to force such a relationship so that she can figure out for herself that he is not a nice person is what I find intriguing. . . . While it may not be your intention to do so, the process by which she would discover what her father is really like will be incredibly emotional and a difficult and dangerous situation for a 10 year old child to deal with . . .

The question for me is not whether she has a right to know him (as the UN convention may indicate) but whether or not it is in her interests to know him (which based on your posts it does not appear to be) . . (see Article 9, subpoint 3, below . . )


Article 9

3. States Parties shall respect the right of the child who is separated from one or both parents to maintain personal relations and direct contact with both parents on a regular basis, except if it is contrary to the child's best interests.

The Corinthian

goodmum wrote: »

Completely and utterly nothing to do with my situation. My post isn't about mothers who aren't interested. It's about my ex who is not interested - who happens to be a man. This is not a man-bashing post. I'm asking a question about my own circumstances.

Unless you try to understand the reason for a rejection, what hope have you got of doing anything about it? I suggested that his rejection may not be a black and white affair, which means he could be encouraged to form a belated relationship with his daughter, or it could be that he has definitively rejected fatherhood, in which case you need to work with this in mind.

If you want to simply assume the latter, I really don't understand why you would bother to ask the question in the first place - unless you have always meant legally force, which as pretty much everyone has told you is not possible and even less advisable.

Parents. Plural.

Comments?

Where does this leave adoption?

I knew a girl years ago who was adopted and contacted her biological mother to see if she could meet her or get to know her. The biological mother refused. Should the mother have been forced by law?

Even ignoring this, it really is nutty to think that any good can come from 'forcing' someone to love or even just know a child. How do you think they are going to act at such a meeting? It is actually irresponsible, bordering on sadistic, to put a child in that situation.

goodmum

Why mention adoption? What has that got to do with it - you seem to be always changing the agenda here corinthhian - adoption is a whole other post, and one of which I know little.

Good point halleluh. So where to now?

Sit her down and say...????

She's known for a very long time that he wasn't ready to be her dad...he will obviously never be ready and I know that...but how to say that to my 10yr old...??

goodmum

'It is actually irresponsible, bordering on sadistic, to put a child in that situation.'

Would you by any chance, be the person who has a child and has no contact with child corinthian? Might explain the above.

hallelujajordan

goodmum wrote: »

Why mention adoption? What has that got to do with it - you seem to be always changing the agenda here corinthhian - adoption is a whole other post, and one of which I know little.

Good point halleluh. So where to now?

Sit her down and say...????

She's known for a very long time that he wasn't ready to be her dad...he will obviously never be ready and I know that...but how to say that to my 10yr old...??

You sit down and do your best to explain it to her . . you take your own emotions and feelings towards her father out of it and you try to tell her the story as factually as you can . . All the while you reinforce the fact that she is loved and wanted by you and by others . .

This might not be easy for you or for her but it is certainly better than asking her to work it out for herself, something that a 10 year old is simply not capable of. .

I agree with Corinthian, I think the legal approach (were it available) would be irresponsible. .

The Corinthian

goodmum wrote: »

Why mention adoption? What has that got to do with it - you seem to be always changing the agenda here corinthhian - adoption is a whole other post, and one of which I know little.

Look I am not looking to push any agenda, I am giving an approach to problem solving that involves people.

If you have two points of view that are incomparable, what you do it understand the one you oppose. I don't mean understand in a two-dimensional, they're wrong and I'm right, kind of way, but one that gives you insight and thus allows you to approach a solution in a way that you may not have seen before.

Raising issues such as adoption or forcing someone to be a mum are simply devices to allow you to look from that different perspective. Nothing more.

Ultimately, if you don't try looking at problems from different perspectives after you've failed to solve them from yours, what do you expect?

And please lay off the personal attacks. What is it about these discussions that people resort to getting personal whenever someone refuses to validate them?

Ms. Captain M

Hey Goodmum
Only my second post be gentle people.

I know exactly where your're coming from, in a very similar situation myself. But the way I see it is that the other party is the one that's losing out, big time. You can't force people to see their kids and you shouldn't have to. Of course it's hard trying to explain to the child. But you have to take comfort in the fact that when she gets a little older she will realise that you were the one who was always there for them no matter what

shrapnel222

how about trying a different approach? why not suggest to his mum, whether he would mind if his daughter sent him a mail or a letter? maybe let them engage in a completely faceless environment so that his resentment for you might not cloud his judgement when or if he starts replying back to her. This might break the ice and allow him to open up to her a little.

I perfectly understand you want neither you nor your daughter to have anything to do with him, but i am certain your daughter won't give up on this till she has her own answers. This way might offer a compromise.

goodmum

'And please lay off the personal attacks'

You Cornithian, told me that " It is actually irresponsible, bordering on sadistic, to put a child in that situation".

"Sadism is the derivation of pleasure as a result of inflicting pain or watching pain inflicted on others"

So the fact that I want my fathers daughter to acknowlede her makes me sadistic?????????? And I'M the one being personal?

Look, I'm human, give me a break here. My daughter has gotten caught up with seeing her new best friends dad being very hands on. Up to now, most of her friends dads just did 'normal' dads stuff, but this guy is incredible. He really is a wonderful father (probably spoiling her) and she has started asking more and more questions about her own father.

While I do like the idea of her writing to him, I know he won't reply and I don't know if she could handle that rejection - I appreciate that she's handling a more 'general rejection' everyday, but if she wrote and he didn't write back, it would be a more pointed rejection. As in, he'd be rejecting her letter and her. Rather than just rejecting fatherhoold.

I said before that there are plenty of parents out there like me and thanks for the kind words Ms M but I think I'll take your advice hallelujah and do the 'sit her down...tell her the facts..'

Im sure the questions won't stop in the coming years but at least I've done as much as I can for her.

The Corinthian

goodmum wrote: »

So the fact that I want my fathers daughter to acknowlede her makes me sadistic?????????? And I'M the one being personal?

From my perspective, and that of others here, the inevitable consequences of forcing them together are going to cause her pain. Indeed, both of them will likely find the entire thing unpleasant and if his discomfort causes you to smile just a little, then you will have to admit there is something akin to sadism here.

Look, I'm human, give me a break here.

I know you are, we all are, and unfortunately it means we end up doing dumb things for stupid reasons. Sometimes we end up looking back on them with regret, sometimes with a mixture of regret and resignation (because it would have ended up the same way regardless of what we did), but sometimes there is a way of fixing things.

As I said originally, why he rejected fatherhood may not be so cut and dry. Of course it may ultimately be (I have no idea about your story) but sometimes it is more about the two parents and the relationship between them. There was an article in the Guardian some time ago about this (can't find it atm). However, if you cannot look at the problem from another perspective, perhaps his, perhaps even a third party, then you'll just continue to view it from your own - and that hasn't gotten you anywhere to date.

So honestly, until you do that I would not lose hope of a happy ending. Just don't count on it, is all.

elli21

There are no reasonable explanations of why a parent who is in good health,resides in the same country and in your case your daughter has some contact with paternal grandparents therefore a strong possibility for child and parent to meet in a neutral place has not seen their child in ten years....just poor excuses!!
So sorry you and your daughter are going through this.

My sons farther pops into there lives every now and then,makes a few promises and then breaks their hearts all over again by letting them down.
I hate myself for sending them to him,and then to see the hurt in their faces.

You are right when you say that when your daughter gets older she will realise what an a** he is but unfortunately that doesn't always dull the pain as there is still the feeling of being rejected and why me,what did I do?

The important thing is to remember that this very sad situation is a reflection on him ,not on you and your daughter.

The reality is as parents when we have raised our children can we honestly look in the mirror and say that I know I did my very best for them...... I know you can...
Good luck with your daughter.

goodmum

"if his discomfort causes you to smile just a little"

Where did I EVER say that? This has absolutely got NOTHING to do with causing me to smile. This is not about me and him. This is about him and his daughter. Why are you constantly going off-topic and trying to suggest that this is something other than it is?

"why he rejected fatherhood may not be so cut and dry"

It IS cut and dry. WE got pregnant. He didn't want a child. He broke it off. End of.

However, that is the most pathetic excuse I have ever heard in my life, but it continues to be the only excuse he has used for refusing to take responsibility for his daughter.

goodmum

Thanks for the kind word elli.

'My sons farther pops into there lives every now and then,makes a few promises and then breaks their hearts all over again by letting them down.
I hate myself for sending them to him,and then to see the hurt in their faces.'

I truly believe that my daughter is much, much better off than children like your sons. To have a parent (mother or father) who chooses when and how to dip in and out of their childs life, is much harder to cope with than a parent who is not involved at all. It can cause a huge amount of emotional damage to a child. I have a close family member who's sons father is similar - the son is now 14 and in a bad way trying to deal with his fathers lack of interest - there are so many highs when dad is around, but so many lows when he lets him down.

I'm truly sorry to hear of your situation and I understand how you'd end up hating yourself for sending them to him, but like you said at the end of your post, this is a reflection on him, not on you.

The Corinthian

goodmum wrote: »

Where did I EVER say that?

Never said you did; I said 'if'. Only you can answer that.

It IS cut and dry. WE got pregnant. He didn't want a child. He broke it off. End of.

Fine. I don't know your story, or his, so lets just assume this. I was just trying to give a positive slant to it.

However, that is the most pathetic excuse I have ever heard in my life, but it continues to be the only excuse he has used for refusing to take responsibility for his daughter.

What excuse? That he didn't want a child? Maybe it's simply just that - you can't expect a man to want to be a father just because you want to be a mother any more than I can force a woman pregnant with my child to go to term and be a mother if she does not want to be. Sorry, but that's life.

goodmum

You've an answer for everything. And a pretty biased one at that. I'm begining to think you're my ex. I've gotten what I came here for, when I wrote my first post, which is the answer that NO, you can't force someone to be a dad in a legal capacity anyhow. And of course I know that emotionally you wouldn't want to, and indeed shouldn't, for the sake of the childs sanity. Thank you all for input.