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Can you force someone to be a dad?

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24

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    #32
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    goodmum wrote: »
    You've an answer for everything. And a pretty biased one at that. I'm begining to think you're my ex.
    I think we can both be glad of the fact that I am not your ex. And of course I have a bias, so do you, it is that I have a different bias is the issue. As I said, if you can't find a solution from your own perspective, try a different one and see if it helps.

    Only trying to help. Best of luck resolving things.


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    #33
    joes girls
    Registered Users Posts: 20,448 ✭✭✭✭joes girls


    my ex has not seen the kids in over 3 weeks now........i could not care if he never came back to see them.But it is hard on my 7 year old........men should wise up and think a little bit less of themself all the time......i could not even dream of been away from them that long they are what keep me goin........


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    #34
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    OP-

    I have a mych younger child in the same position as yours and I anticipate the same events in the future.

    My advice would be to explain to her that if he knew her he would love her, after all what's not to love? ALso explain to her that adults get into states where they are not able to cope and for her to try not to take it personally, and that is important for her to remain strong.

    I don't know what to do about the mythologised absent parent - Im sure there is good advice out there on how to demysitfy and deflate the fantasysing.


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    #35
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Am I going to have to start chastising people and telling them to write out the charter 3 times to make sure they understand it?

    I really hope not.


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    #36
    goodmum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭goodmum


    'Only trying to help. Best of luck resolving things'

    Ah but you see you wern't only trying to help. Easy to finish it now with a 'nice' sentence. You were constantly trying to change the subject to abortion/adoption or mothers who don't care and then continued to throw smart remarks at me.

    I've come on these boards looking for help and was hoping someone would answer the question HOW can a parent just decide 'Hey..don't really want to do this..', walk away and get away with it?? You can be prosecuted for cruelty to animals. But a parent can abandon a child and face no legal recource.

    I don't get it.


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    #37
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Sorry I meant to also add that forcing someone to be a parent is really no good for the child either imo as the child will no doubt pick up on the feeling and stress transmited by the co oerced parent. After all, it doesn't feel too good to be in the presence of someone who doesn't want your company does it?


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    #38
    joes girls
    Registered Users Posts: 20,448 ✭✭✭✭joes girls


    hey goodmum.........deep breath......its hard i know......but at the end of the day,my kids will always have me and will always feel loved.So if the dad does not want to be in the picture,i think they are better off without.......if you try to make him be part of her life it might just push him away more.Give it a bit of time see what happens.....but dont get yourself all worked up,gets you no where.
    good luck.......


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    #39
    goodmum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭goodmum


    Sorry thaed, did I say something I shouldn't? Apologies if I did but this is quite an emotive subject for me.


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    #40
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    It is understandibly so but it is not fair to target an other poster personally if you do not like what they have to say.

    It is completely normal for your daughter at this juncture in her life to start looking to want to have a relationship with her father. She is at the stage were all girls start to be come Daddy's girl to an extent. The bond that develops and relationship between father and daughter at this stage before they become full blown adolescents often will set the template for how she will expect men to treat her in more adult relationships.

    It is the start of her trying to figure out 'men'.
    If she doesn't have her dad in her life what about other suitable male father figures?
    After all there are many people who contribute to the rearing of a child.

    Thankfully my Dad knew such dynamics were important and make a point of spending time with each of his daughters, taking us out for the day and treating us with good manners as little ladies so that we would come to have standards for interactions with guys and we also learned how to graciously accept gestures rather then be discomforted by them or react in a rude manner.

    You can't force her father to be in her life, never mind to be a positive role model or to have positive interactions with her, tbh no interaction i would say is better then none but you do have to look for good male role models for her to interact with.


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    #41
    goodmum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭goodmum


    I wasn't aware I was targetting him sorry. My intention was to continue to bring my post back to the original question and defend myself. Anyhow, I digress.

    Yes thankfully, she has many male role models - I have brothers and my dad of course. She hasn't met any of my (few!) boyfriends over the years so she would not have a male role model as a constant, everyday type thing.

    So as an adult, I can say that yes, she sees how men should treat women and should grow up expecting the same treatment herself.

    But from a ten year old girls perspective? None of the male role models I speak about are her dad........and therein lies the problem!


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    #42
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    This may help in someway but of course wont replace her biological heritage. I have come across a "big brother" programme in Ireland where there are men who are fully guardi vetted and checked out and who volunteer to spend time with children ages 10 and up who come from broken homes. It may ease some of the void Thaed is talking about.

    It is so so hard to watch your child in pain and feel powerless to do anything about it. I think the most productive apporoach is to add as many quality people to her life as possible and BUILD BUILD BUILD the ego, until it is an invulnerable as FORT KNOX.


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    #43
    PullOutMethod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭PullOutMethod


    Hello goodmum.
    I am a father 2 two little girls.
    They are my angels, my life.
    Don't know what I'd do without them and my wife.

    Here is my perspective: I disagree with most of the other posters, I think it's worth a crack trying to get them into contact. The question is how:
    I think posting him a letter with some carefully chosen photos of your daughter.
    e.g. at different ages.
    Sounds like he resents you, but he is missing out big time on your daughters growing up.
    These times will never come back again.
    If he doesn't wise up he will end up like Ebeneezer Scrooge.
    It may not work straight away, but I guarantee he won't throw away the photos.
    Send cards occasionally with a single photo (e.g. at Xmas time or her birthday)
    Hopefully he will dig out the photos at times to gaze at his daughter.
    There will be times when other men will be talking about their kids. He will surely feel pain.

    Remember: "a life lived without love is like a tree without blossoms or fruit"


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    #44
    goodmum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭goodmum


    'There will be times when other men will be talking about their kids. He will surely feel pain'

    I really wish I could believe that but I think he has just blocked his daughter out of his mind and has no feelings whatsoever towards her.

    What I didn't say here was that I posted him a letter 2 weeks ago. No reply.


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    #45
    PullOutMethod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭PullOutMethod


    I really think a photo of her sent at Xmas or his birthday.
    One can't argue with a photograph - it goes straight into the subconscious.
    People tend to take stock at Xmas / Birthdays.
    Everyone is mortal. All it takes is some sort of health scare or life changing event to cop a person on to what is important in life.
    Don't give up, at least you can sleep with a clear conscience knowing you tried.
    You lived up to your moniker.


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    #46
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    PullOutMethod wrote: »
    I really think a photo of her sent at Xmas or his birthday.
    One can't argue with a photograph - it goes straight into the subconscious.
    People tend to take stock at Xmas / Birthdays.
    Everyone is mortal. All it takes is some sort of health scare or life changing event to cop a person on to what is important in life.
    Don't give up, at least you can sleep with a clear conscience knowing you tried.
    You lived up to your moniker.

    I think you are judging Dad based on your own standards and personality . . . While I can entirely see where you are coming from, I think you need to remember that this is a guy that has ignored his child for 10 years. . I don't expect that you will see the reaction that you predict simply by sending photos etc ..


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    #47
    HashSlinging
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭HashSlinging


    Hi Goodmum,

    There is an organisation call Rainbows they are the best people to talk to about this. They wont solve the problem but they will help your daughter.

    http://www.rainbowsireland.com/


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    #48
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    I think you are judging Dad based on your own standards and personality . . . While I can entirely see where you are coming from, I think you need to remember that this is a guy that has ignored his child for 10 years. . I don't expect that you will see the reaction that you predict simply by sending photos etc ..
    I don't think this is the purpose of the exercise. Given the information on the father's attitude that we have, anyone with an I.Q. over room temperature would realize that sending photos, letters or whatever, would be a futile gesture. However, it does satisfy the sender on two counts; firstly that they have carried out their duty as best as they can and secondly the satisfaction that such correspondence may trouble or otherwise upset the recipient.


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    #49
    goodmum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭goodmum


    '.... and secondly the satisfaction that such correspondence may trouble or otherwise upset the recipient. '

    And ONCE AGAIN you have your own agenda. Because as you obviously know, of course the only reason I have already sent her photo to him AND the odd letter to him over the past ten years is to 'upset' him. (that's sarcasm by the way). What a ridiculous and juvenile reply.

    I have sent the photo to him in the vain hope that he will someday come to his senses and BE a father to his child that HE CREATED WITH ME. AND so that I can tell her when she herself becomes a young woman, that I did as much as I could do for HER.

    NOT so that I could 'upset' her dad. :mad:


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    #50
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    goodmum wrote: »
    And ONCE AGAIN you have your own agenda. Because as you obviously know, of course the only reason I have already sent her photo to him AND the odd letter to him over the past ten years is to 'upset' him. (that's sarcasm by the way). What a ridiculous and juvenile reply.
    Look, the only agenda I have is that I don't like hearing BS justifications that paint base desires as being noble.

    There was a thread on PI some time ago or so where a guy gave a sob story on being entrapped into fatherhood and only after a few pages it was revealed that he had actually been in a long term relationship and they had planned to have a child together. He didn't much like being denied the validation he sought either.
    I have sent the photo to him in the vain hope that he will someday come to his senses and BE a father to his child that HE CREATED WITH ME.
    In fairness, whether you like it or not, whether it is socially acceptable or not, there's no coming "to his senses" here. He didn't want a kid, or at least not with you. It happens, it's why women get abortions all the time. Of course, you do not see it this way. Bizarrely women can reject their children, but men can't in your eyes, but it does happen and neither gender is different in this regard, however regrettable it may be.

    While continuing to try for your daughter is commendable, if what you say is true about his wishes, it's also a waste of time and simply serves to keep you in an emotional rut that will never be resolved because he will never "come to his senses". And that's negative in the long term, both for your daughter and yourself.
    AND so that I can tell her when she herself becomes a young woman, that I did as much as I could do for HER.
    Don't get me wrong, I believe you also have your daughters best intentions in mind too, where it comes to this, but that does not mean that all your intentions are equally as laudable.
    NOT so that I could 'upset' her dad. :mad:
    Sorry, but by your own admission this is an emotive issue for you and you have not made any secret of your negative feelings towards the man, so I simply do not believe you.


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    #51
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    goodmum wrote: »
    '.... and secondly the satisfaction that such correspondence may trouble or otherwise upset the recipient. '

    And ONCE AGAIN you have your own agenda. Because as you obviously know, of course the only reason I have already sent her photo to him AND the odd letter to him over the past ten years is to 'upset' him. (that's sarcasm by the way). What a ridiculous and juvenile reply.

    I have sent the photo to him in the vain hope that he will someday come to his senses and BE a father to his child that HE CREATED WITH ME. AND so that I can tell her when she herself becomes a young woman, that I did as much as I could do for HER.

    NOT so that I could 'upset' her dad. :mad:

    Honestly. I think it's a waste of time. He doesn't want the child, nothing you can do can make him want the child. When she becomes a young woman, she will understand. Im sure you will take a hit or two from her, but that is because she needs to lash out at someone, and you being her mother are the safest person with whom she can unleash, but she will understand and you will help her move through the pain and know in no uncertain terms that this is not how good men behave.


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    #52
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    However, it does satisfy the sender on two counts; firstly that they have carried out their duty as best as they can and secondly the satisfaction that such correspondence may trouble or otherwise upset the recipient.


    Neither of which does anything to help the only important person in the equation (no offence, Goodmum) the 10 year old child. .
    He didn't want a kid, or at least not with you. It happens, it's why women get abortions all the time. Of course, you do not see it this way. Bizarrely women can reject their children, but men can't in your eyes, but it does happen and neither gender is different in this regard, however regrettable it may be.
    Corinthian, regardless of your stance on abortion (and lets not go there!) there is a huge difference between rejecting a foetus / deciding you are not ready to bring a child into the world and ignoring your 10 year old child. . .


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    #53
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    Corinthian, regardless of your stance on abortion (and lets not go there!)
    I recognise the reality that it happens and is an option that is out there. Beyond that, I'm pretty ambivalent on the subject, TBH.
    there is a huge difference between rejecting a foetus / deciding you are not ready to bring a child into the world and ignoring your 10 year old child. . .
    Not really. Before abortion was more widely available, mothers who did not want to be mothers would opt for adoption, and in that scenario it's much the same thing. Nowadays, because of the wide availability of abortion, this does not happen all that much as the 'problem' is dealt with more efficiently.

    Either way, whether the rejection is facilitated by society, with the options of abortion or adoption, or not, as with paternal rejection, it really does not change the often common motivations or that, ultimately, if the parent in question does not want to have anything to do with the child, they won't. Ever.

    Someone I knew, who was adopted, managed to contact her biological mother when we were both in college. The reply was polite, but ultimately rejected any possibility at meeting, let alone a relationship. Whatever her biological mother's motivations, twenty years had not caused her to "come to her senses" either and so, sometimes, you just have to accept this and move on.


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    #54
    goodmum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 160 ✭✭goodmum


    So I just posted a thread but do you know what, I deleted it because I'm bored with this contstant tit-for-tat posting, where I tell my story and I'm not believed or where abortion comes into it.

    Thanks to those of you who gave me constructive advice, even if I didn't agree with it, it's been very helpful.


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    #55
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    I'm really glad you started this thread and in a way glad it went the way it went because Im going to print it out and save it and show it to my son when he gets older.


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    #56
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    goodmum wrote: »
    Thanks to those of you who gave me constructive advice, even if I didn't agree with it, it's been very helpful.
    What constructive advice did you not agree with?


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    #57
    Communicator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭Communicator


    Bit confused as to why you'd show your son this?:confused: Not sure why you'd show anyone this!


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    #58
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    I'm really glad you started this thread and in a way glad it went the way it went because Im going to print it out and save it and show it to my son when he gets older.

    If I see any more personal digs from you on this forum I'll ban you from it indefinitely. I don't care about your personal circumstances but dragging them onto this forum is a no-no.


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    #59
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    After consideration I've decided to reopen this thread on the condition that people not get personal with respect to other posters on it.


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    #60
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    goodmum wrote:
    Can you force someone to see their child?

    I won't bore you with the details because I'm sure you've heard them before, there are many women like me out there.

    Briefly, my ex and I split when my daughter was 6 months - he had shown little interest in her up to that point. He saw her on and off for the first year and then nothing. I get maintenance after 5 court visits.

    My daughter is now 10 and asks for her daddy ALOT. He lives quite locally and has been told by his mother, that she really wants to see him. But he has said no.

    Apart from the fact that my heart is broken at his callousness, I wonder if I can force him to at least see her? She really just wants to put a face to a name and I haven't told her that he's not interested. I know some of you may think that I'm insane to even WANT this many in my daughters life, and obviously, I don't. But if you saw her little face when she asks me when can she see him, you'd understand why I'm even thinking this way. Thanks

    Hey, I was in exactly the same situation as your daughter. My father left when I was young and I had no contact with him until my 20's. I never really thought about it for most of my childhood, but there were times, such as your daughter is experiencing where I did think about him and wonder who he was. In the end, I got a photo and it was the "face to the name" your daughter asks for.

    When I did finally contact him, it turns out, he had a kid with a different woman before I was born and another with another woman whom he married after me. He still wants nothing to do with his first two kids still and doesn't want to know us. He's a pretty selfish guy from the brief contact I've had with him. His only contribution to my life is a brother who I'm now close with.

    Looking back, I'm glad he wasn't in my life. Not because of the rejection now, but because I had family who loved me and who cared for me and because I was happy. Someone who doesn't want to be there is only going to be a disruptive force in your life. In other friends from split parents, I see them sometimes playing powergames. One parent would use the child as a tool to hurt the other. Thankfully I avoided all that.

    Most of the curiosity is probably coming from peer questioning and the fact that her friends have conventional family set ups. The question "whats it like to have no dad" is always asked and can never be answered because we know no different. The main thing is we have family who DO want to be there.


    My advice would be to protect your daughter. If he doesn't want to be there, he can bring her no happiness. Show her a photo, maybe give it to her and frame it. Let her have the dream of someone who is there, tell her anything she wants to know without being mean. But let her know she is loved by you and her family and in time, she'll learn that a father is more than just someone who donates sperm.

    This was rambling and soppy.. my apologies...


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    #61
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Not really. Before abortion was more widely available, mothers who did not want to be mothers would opt for adoption, and in that scenario it's much the same thing. Nowadays, because of the wide availability of abortion, this does not happen all that much as the 'problem' is dealt with more efficiently.

    Either way, whether the rejection is facilitated by society, with the options of abortion or adoption, or not, as with paternal rejection, it really does not change the often common motivations or that, ultimately, if the parent in question does not want to have anything to do with the child, they won't. Ever.

    Someone I knew, who was adopted, managed to contact her biological mother when we were both in college. The reply was polite, but ultimately rejected any possibility at meeting, let alone a relationship. Whatever her biological mother's motivations, twenty years had not caused her to "come to her senses" either and so, sometimes, you just have to accept this and move on.

    I think what your doing is unfair. Equating this fathers choice to go on ignoring his 10 year old daughter (who he knows is longing for his love and attention) to the choice of parent(s) to have either an abortion or adoption is just not valid . . . Whatever your view on abortion is, putting a child up for adoption may absolutely be a correct decision, in the best interests of the childs welfare and you can understand why someone may be motivated to do this. . The only motivation for what he is doing is selfishness. .


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