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Rules and society.

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2

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    #32
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    The Freeman perspective has been mentioned on this thread and It is where I first discovered these views I hold but I've been thinking about it for as long as I can remember. The way we go about things is wrong imo.

    I work and pay taxes but that doesn't mean I cant disagree with the double standards and downright greed I see all around me. The Gardai are revenue collection officers. An Garda Siochana is a corporation intrested in one thing and one thing only, profit. The Irish Government is a corporation, The office of an Taoiseach is a corporation, the courts are corporations, dept of justice etc etc.

    I was born in Ireland, I'm Irish. However I signed no contract with the corporation known as the Irish Government and I have no requirement to be ruled under corporate law by them using statutes against me in a corporate court treating me like a corporation. I'm a flesh and blood human being. As we've seen corporations care not for people, only profit. Does anyone here actually believe that the Irish government is looking out for whats best for its people or how to get the country making more money again. One CANNOT live hand in hand with the other. Never imo.

    So we have a choice. Keep the status quo and watch our old folk die without dignity or we say no more and stick it to them. I dont want anarchy only fairness.


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    #33
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    For God sack man, are you trying to be a akward as possible ? We Socialists tend to see the good side of all people but I'm struggling with you.
    There is no option 3 only 1 or 2.

    Do you work in the public sector?.


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    #34
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #35
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    You see what all the socialists fail to see is that government tends to be badly run. We are always giving about bad governance and yet peoples only solution is to elect another one. Why dont they see that the whole concept of government is a lot of the problem here? Fundamentally, its not an institution that encourages innovation and growth etc.

    And of course everyone has their wet dreams about how they will become Taoiseach and change everything. How many "lets start a new political party" threads have we seen? Yet its really all the same. They will get into power and act just like the rest. Their wet dream will end with a mess, as it always does.


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    #36
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    turgon wrote: »
    You see what all the socialists fail to see is that government tends to be badly run. We are always giving about bad governance and yet peoples only solution is to elect another one. Why dont they see that the whole concept of government is a lot of the problem here? Fundamentally, its not an institution that encourages innovation and growth etc.

    And of course everyone has their wet dreams about how they will become Taoiseach and change everything. How many "lets start a new political party" threads have we seen? Yet its really all the same. They will get into power and act just like the rest. Their wet dream will end with a mess, as it always does.

    Exactly.


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    #37
    Ziggurat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Ziggurat


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    I was born in Ireland, I'm Irish. However I signed no contract with the corporation known as the Irish Government and I have no requirement to be ruled under corporate law by them using statutes against me in a corporate court treating me like a corporation. I'm a flesh and blood human being.

    This is something I could just never understand (i.e. I don't understand your problem with it). What would suggest as an alternative?


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    #38
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    I would suggest that the severity and the restrictions of this "contract" be kept to as minimum as possible.


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    #39
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Quinine wrote: »
    This is something I could just never understand (i.e. I don't understand your problem with it). What would suggest as an alternative?

    Freedom of course.

    The day I was born my parents, unwittingly, signed a contract on my behalf (birth cert) as I was a minor. They signed me up to a society I had no knowledge of and to a life of servitude. Are we all equal? If you gave me a choice to either have my bin man or my local doctor I'd have the bin man every time cause without him we'd all be riddled with disease that a doctor couldn't cure. But we put doctors on a pedistle and look down on our hygiene operatives. We need to re-evaluate whats important to us and if we truly live in a fair society because we are not treated as equals. Our ability to memorise at school and our willingness to tow "society" lines makes some more equal than others. Actions = value not money.


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    #40
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    I dispair. Can people truly not see the big picture that your life is not your own. Do not allow profit hungry corporations dictate to you how to live your life, follow your dreams and to hell with what people think. You sacrifice your own happiness for the sake of a society which doesn't care about you or your family. It cares only for power and money.


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    #41
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    So what do you suggest JackieBrown, throughout this whole thread you have complained and Bitched about society but havn't given any alternatives. Your parents did not sign a "contract" when you where born, they gave you civilisation, would you rather they left you in the desert in deepest darkest Africa and let you fend for yourself ? If you don't like your "contract you are free to maove to another country and sign another "contract" that may be more suited to you.
    P.S And you still haven't answered my question.


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    #42
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    So what do you suggest JackieBrown, throughout this whole thread you have complained and Bitched about society but havn't given any alternatives. Your parents did not sign a "contract" when you where born, they gave you civilisation, would you rather they left you in the desert in deepest darkest Africa and let you fend for yourself ? If you don't like your "contract you are free to maove to another country and sign another "contract" that may be more suited to you.
    P.S And you still haven't answered my question.

    The blind cannot see and those who do not wish to see are blind. I'm not an opthamologist.


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    #43
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    In what way am I blind ? Throwing smart comments into the wind does nothing for the debate.


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    #44
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    In what way am I blind ? Throwing smart comments into the wind does nothing for the debate.

    I'm not trying to be smart. I'm telling you in plain english what I think.


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    #45
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    I repeat, In what way am I blind ?


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    #46
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    What is your solution jackiebrown?


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    #47
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    turgon wrote: »
    What is your solution jackiebrown?

    Reset.


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    #48
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    ha ha, is your name tyler durden ? or have you been watchin too much die hard ?


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    #49
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Reset.

    Ha, i like this!

    Incidently i've been working on a novel exploring society, politics and freedom - hence my recent activity on anarchy and freedom.
    But yeah, as you put is "Reset" is what the story begins with. A means to start a revolution. Tyler Durden managed it in Fight Club and so did Fidel Castro in Cuba so guess it can be done... But the real question is will it really achieve its ideals?!


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    #50
    Ziggurat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Ziggurat


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Reset.

    Reset to what?


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    #51
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Its all about wants and needs. Its all in the mind.

    We need food, water and shelter to survive. We want the latest plasma tv, the fastest car, the biggest house, the newest clothes, the finest girlfriend, the best paid job etc etc and all for one purpose. To serve the ego. You must control your ego to be free.


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    #52
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,432 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    We want ...
    Some people want.
    We need food, water and shelter to survive.
    We also want to better ourselves, which is hardly unreasonable.


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    #53
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Victor wrote: »
    Some people want.

    We also want to better ourselves, which is hardly unreasonable.

    How can you better perfection?


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    #54
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,432 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    In a society with only "food, water and shelter", would you not like at least some level of healthcare, education, public safety or security of supply? Even any one of those four?

    Oh in this hypothetical world where the roads are owned privately. How would they be paid for? Who would clean them? Who would light them?


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    #55
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Victor wrote: »
    In a society with only "food, water and shelter", would you not like at least some level of healthcare, education, public safety or security of supply? Even any one of those four?

    Oh in this hypothetical world where the roads are owned privately. How would they be paid for? Who would clean them? Who would light them?

    Who does all these things now?


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    #56
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,432 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Can you answer the question? Remember it is you who are putting these ideas forward.


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    #57
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Victor wrote: »
    Can you answer the question? Remember it is you who are putting these ideas forward.

    Say hello to your ego.

    What makes you think I have to answer your questions? I can reply anyway I see fit and if you think about the answer to my question you'll get the answer to yours.


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    #58
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,432 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Who does all these things now?
    Various branches of government tend to either do the funding, management, supply or provision of all, often with some private business and/or community / charitable organisation involvement.
    What makes you think I have to answer your questions?
    It is you and your fellows who are condemning our current society, claiming that societies rules shouldn't apply to you, etc. You seemed to be the one with all the answers. :) Less, facetiously, it is you who are proposing this, not me.
    I can reply anyway I see fit
    Surely, this is the response of a troll. Surely you are better than that.


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    #59
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Victor wrote: »
    Various branches of government tend to either do the funding, management, supply or provision of all, often with some private business and/or community / charitable organisation involvement.

    It is you and your fellows who are condemning our current society, claiming that societies rules shouldn't apply to you, etc. You seemed to be the one with all the answers. :) Less, facetiously, it is you who are proposing this, not me.

    Surely, this is the response of a troll. Surely you are better than that.

    :D

    Your funny, I like you.

    Why do you always look outside for answers?. You give your power away to readily. Be peaceful and quiet and think of the questions and you'll get the answers.


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    #60
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Victor wrote: »
    Oh in this hypothetical world where the roads are owned privately. How would they be paid for? Who would clean them? Who would light them?

    The toll. I see how this could work on national routes, Im still not convinced about urban roads tbh.


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    #61
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,432 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Why do you always look outside for answers?.
    I can't look inside my head - my eyes point the wrong way. :) In any case, I am looking for the answers inside the people who are making the proposals. If we don't talk, if we only look inside, how do we share ideas? One of our great failings (not pointed at you) as people is coming up with ideas and not thinking them through or bouncing them off others so as to get a different viewpoint.

    Theres a joke (stereotyping, I know):

    Q "Whats the last thing a redneck say before he dies?"
    A "Hee maw, lookat this!"

    You can then imagine Bobby-Joe dies in perhaps a horrible bathtub-chainsaw accident(?) as he hasn't thought things through. Under your system, without some sort of state organised safety board, other people may not hear of and learn from Bobby-Joe's accident other than the newspaper "weird news" section.

    Take the example of road safety - under the NSC, road safety was a tertiary issue, at least in part because a lot of its funding came from the motor industry that had vested interests - insurers and tyre makers and the like pushing their own agendas. With the RSA, at least it is now a secondary issue - someone has taken ownership of the issues and addressing them in a more systematic fashion. Not perfect, but much better than before.

    At an EU level, do you think manufacturers would have improved safety without government pushing them? Private industry, even with a private standards organisation in place, will often still go for the cheapest / most profit route for them, not what is best for all stakeholders. The motor industry is no longer killing us to make money for themselves, well, not quite as much anyway.
    You give your power away to readily.
    Do I? I, and many boardsies reaslise that real power is in sharing information and providing leadership. find truth in reality, not opinion. Sharing my information and kowledge and gaining the same from others empowers me, not weakens me.
    Be peaceful and quiet and think of the questions and you'll get the answers.
    I tried that over the last few days and came to the conclusion you were wrong. :)


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