Referees

MIN2511

After watching yesterday and today's matches. I want to know what ye think about referees.
Should they be disciplined? The red card today wasn't deserved-why can't they appeal?
Penalties where ignored in the 18.
What do ye think?

mikemac

Not disciplined, that's a strong word.

They need to be assessed and get more training if needed

chopperbyrne

Video refs for big decisions. Would only take a few seconds instead of a minute of watching "professional players" trying to bully and abuse a referee.

All other major sports have them so why not football?

Fletcher shouldn't have been sent off last night, but from the refs position it would have been almost impossible to call it as anything else without the aid of someone watching a replay and telling him that it was a good tackle.

DSB

Why do we only care about this when the big superstar teams are involved in some bad decisions?

Insect Overlord

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Video refs for big decisions. Would only take a few seconds instead of a minute of watching "professional players" trying to bully and abuse a referee.

All other major sports have them so why not football?

Fletcher shouldn't have been sent off last night, but from the refs position it would have been almost impossible to call it as anything else without the aid of someone watching a replay and telling him that it was a good tackle.

+1

Couldn't have put it better myself.

mayordenis

reactionary much?

I think the main issue is with the ruling body not allowing appeals,
Unless we intorduce video reffing - which is another debate altogether - there will be a level of human error (which to be honest is probably half the entertainment) but there very much should be an appeal process when it comes to bans.

Diabhal Beag

Some terrible calls but I agree that more training is the fairest solution

Mitch Connor

The big issue is having no procedure for appeals; that has to be sorted.

Davei141

Let's be honest today's red card was harsh on the player but the referee by no means made a mistake.

MIN2511

Training, surely the referees are fully trained before they ref a match?

Holsten

Video ref.

Simple.

DeadSkin

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The big issue is having no procedure for appeals; that has to be sorted.

Aye, a club can only appeal for mistaken identity, that's bullsh!t.

abelard

Holsten wrote: »

Video ref.

Simple.

Agreed.

I accept the fact that people only get up in arms when it's games such as tonight's or last night's, but professional sport at this level cannot rest on human error.

Mitch Connor

DeadSkin wrote: »

Aye, a club can only appeal for mistaken identity, that's bullsh!t.

"You mistook our player for someone who committed a foul...."

delta_bravo

If anything it is the players who should be disciplined. Ballack and Drogba looked like they were having a fit and close to attacking the ref

Jazzy

DSB wrote: »

Why do we only care about this when the big superstar teams are involved in some bad decisions?

BECAUSE WE LOVE BEEEEEAAAAUUUTTTTIIIFFFULLLLLLLL MONEY! MWA HAHAHAHAHA!


its a disgrace. they talk about the respect campaign and then you see the shambles that was tonight and yesterday and you think "why bother?"

every game, every week and in every league this happens. it can make or break hearts. part of the poetry? probably. part of the sport? no

kippy

1.Players need to be HEAVILY penalised for ANY form of complaining on the pitch. Perhaps allow captain to remonstrate with the ref, but thats it.
2.Video assistance HAS to be used in CERTAIN, WELL DOCUMENTED situations, and obviously ONLY in certain games, putting a camera in every pro soccer ground in the world doesn't cut it.
3.Intentional diving to gain advantage needs to be HEAVILY penalised, while also acknowledging that players can fall over without intentionally doing so.
4.An appeals process at ALL levels needs to be implemented.
5.Even with the hindsight of multiple video angles/replays/discussion there will always be "GREY" areas where the person making the call will call it differently to the next guy, especially in soccer. This can be seen by multiple discussions on here with various calls, this needs to be acknowledged. This will effect points 1-4 above and their implementation.

I dont think its as big a deal as fans tend to make out. I do believe that refs were always as "poor" as they are now, just the implications (financially) for the clubs (even the TOP ones) werent as serious, TV cameras were not as prevalent in matches, thousands of pundits/reporters/media people didnt rely on discussion each and every decision to justify their full time job and finally, players weren't in general as dishonest as SOME are now.

GLaDOS

Davei141 wrote: »

Let's be honest today's red card was harsh on the player but the referee by no means made a mistake.

Abidal tripped Anelka telepathically?

Bluetonic

First Anders Frisk, now this poor ref....

Ruskie4Rent

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Abidal tripped Anelka telepathically?

No but it was accidental, and there were players coming in to cover.

Guy:Incognito

mayordenis wrote: »

reactionary much?

.

Hardly. Have a read back through all the PL match and score threads. Theres always plenty of poor decisions and it seems to have taken a big spike this season.

Guy:Incognito

delta_bravo wrote: »

If anything it is the players who should be disciplined. Ballack and Drogba looked like they were having a fit and close to attacking the ref

Decisions being made properly = no such reactions.
It's easy to point at Ballack and Drogba but that doesnt excuse the appalling reffing.

DerekD Goldfish

abelard wrote: »

Agreed.

I accept the fact that people only get up in arms when it's games such as tonight's or last night's, but professional sport at this level cannot rest on human error.

of course it can

Video referring would slow down the game far to much imagine stoping the game for every "penalty" decision there was tonight would have been an extra 10 mins of injury time.
Only one of them was a penalty the pique handball

Most goals come from player errors I dont see why the referees should be exempt from making mistakes
I have no problem with cards being rescinded or players being punished for missed dives or fouls but if you let it effect the actual game you will completely ruin the flow of the game

crowding and hassling the ref (Both teams were at it tonight) should be an automatic 2 game ban

Drogba put in possibly the most disgraceful performance of a "footballer" ive ever seen in my life
a referee making a mistake is human error but Drogbas throwing himself to the ground any time someone came within 5 yards of him was a disgrace to watch.

DerekD Goldfish

Also on the Rednapp (I dont know why im even acknowledging it) coment that the ref shouldnt have got the game because he was from Denmark was ludicrous.
Should only Spanish,English,Italian and German refs be allowed get big games because they are the only ones who are up to it?
IMO its stupid to limit your referee choice like this

I dont think his performance was great tonight in fact if anything he gave far to many 50/50 decisions towards Chelsea this whole thing of feeling agreeved that you didnt get any of 5 "penalty claims" doesnt make any sence if it not a penalty its not a penalty now matter how many you have you shouldnt get a penalty just because you have had constant claims its not like booking a player for constant niggally fouls

Headshot

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

Also on the Rednapp (I dont know why im even acknowledging it) coment that the ref shouldnt have got the game because he was from Denmark was ludicrous.
Should only Spanish,English,Italian and German refs be allowed get big games because they are the only ones who are up to it?
IMO its stupid to limit your referee choice like this

actually the ref is Norwegian

and jamie is on the money

the Norwegian league isnt a professional league at all,so a Norwegian ref referring CL semi final is a disgrace

IvySlayer

I personally don't like when players moan at the ref, get in his face, have hissy fits etc. I completely agree with the captains only rule.

Video refering is a good idea, so long as only the referee can decide what decisions he whats clarifying.

kippy

Headshot wrote: »

actually the ref is Norwegian

and jamie is on the money

the Norwegian league isnt a professional league at all,so a Norwegian ref referring CL semi final is a disgrace

I think that is pretty irrelevant to be honest.......They thought the guy could do the job, he made a few mistakes - no one died, we all do.

How many PL/Spainish/German etc make WORSE mistakes on a weekly basis.......

Denis Irwin

Headshot wrote: »

actually the ref is Norwegian

and jamie is on the money

the Norwegian league isnt a professional league at all,so a Norwegian ref referring CL semi final is a disgrace

Why ? I'm pretty certain that the Swedish league would probably be of similar standard yet it probably produced one of the best European refs after Collina in Anders Frisk.

DerekD Goldfish

Headshot wrote: »

actually the ref is Norwegian

and jamie is on the money

the Norwegian league isnt a professional league at all,so a Norwegian ref referring CL semi final is a disgrace

I dont get this idea at all if a referee has plently of European and International experience I dont see why his nationality (other than not being form the country of the 2 teams) should have any impact onto them getting big games

Headshot

Denis Irwin wrote: »

Why I'm pretty certain that the Swedish league would probably be of similar standard yet it probably produced one of the best European refs after Collina in Anders Frisk.

actally mate the Allsvenskan is a professional league afaik

Headshot

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

I dont get this idea at all if a referee has plently of European and International experience I dont see why his nationality (other than not being form the country of the 2 teams) should have any impact onto them getting big games

its about the league he referees ,which is amatuer

Jazzy

Headshot wrote: »

actally mate the Allsvenskan is a professional league afaik

i smell a quickdraw on the wikipedia :pac:

netwhizkid

The referee tonight was absolutely appalling and deprived Chelsea of two penatlies. He also once gave out three yellow cards to the same player in a match in the 2006 World Cup finals in Germany. Chelsea and their players are right to be aggrieved and Drogba was fair man that he did not wallop the Referee as other less restrained players would. (imagine Eric Cantona in his day:D). The referee was a disgrace and it is fine for Dunphy and others to complain but I back Drogba 100%. It sends out a message why bother playing when you are up against referees like him.

kippy

netwhizkid wrote: »

The referee tonight was absolutely appalling and deprived Chelsea of two penatlies. He also once gave out three yellow cards to the same player in a match in the 2006 World Cup finals in Germany. Chelsea and their players are right to be aggrieved and Drogba was fair man that he did not wallop the Referee as other less restrained players would. (imagine Eric Cantona in his day:D). The referee was a disgrace and it is fine for Dunphy and others to complain but I back Drogba 100%. It sends out a message why bother playing when you are up against referees like him.

Listen, Drogba is well known for DIVING, MOANING and making more of injuries than they are. If he was more of an honest player I would have some minor sympathy for him.
Players all over the place lose matches because of various decisions, its not an excuse for completely harassing a guy who gets paid drasticilly less than you, who doesnt have the tools or powers to do his job properly.

Headshot

I understand refs making mistakes,we all make mistakes but when he's looking at a dead on hand ball in the box

i shake my head in disbelief

DerekD Goldfish

netwhizkid wrote: »

The referee tonight was absolutely appalling and deprived Chelsea of two penatlies. He also once gave out three yellow cards to the same player in a match in the 2006 World Cup finals in Germany. Chelsea and their players are right to be aggrieved and Drogba was fair man that he did not wallop the Referee as other less restrained players would. (imagine Eric Cantona in his day:D). The referee was a disgrace and it is fine for Dunphy and others to complain but I back Drogba 100%. It sends out a message why bother playing when you are up against referees like him.

You cant have players acting out like that
If players didn't hassle refs as much as they do there would be less incorrect decisions.
Refereeing is a very tough job and refs get far to much abuse and the abuse and lack of action at the highest level encourages the lack of disrespect down to the lowest level.


Its one thing complaining about a decision its another thing surrounding a ref and hurling abuse in his face

its about the league he referees ,which is amatuer

Its not an amateur league its a pro/semi-pro league big difference

If refs have enough experience at european and international level they should have just as much chance of getting big games as refs from "better" leagues

kippy

Headshot wrote: »

I understand refs making mistakes,we all make mistakes but when he's looking at a dead on hand ball in the box

i shake my head in disbelief

Have you ever missed something that was right in front of your face?? Ever, looking for something you couldnt find only to realise it was right in front of you?
Its a HELL of a lot easier than you think for people to miss things as "obvious" as you state and happens on a CONSISTENT basic at various sporting events all over the world every day, players even miss the obvious stuff that the TV audience can spot a mile away.

Headshot

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

Its not an amateur league its a pro/semi-pro league big difference

If refs have enough experience at european and international level they should have just as much chance of getting big games as refs from "better" leagues

mate what teams does he referee in fairness,he doesnt have huge matches like el clasico or Milan Derby

iv never see a Norwegian soccer game but I doubt its the same pace as a CL semi final

just low standards

therecklessone

Headshot wrote: »

its about the league he referees ,which is amatuer

Howard Webb is allegedly the best manager in the best league in Europe, but he made a bad call two weeks ago. Refs make mistakes, their nationality doesn't matter.

I assume tonight's ref has served his time in European competition, you don't go from the Norwegian League Cup to CL semi.

And for the record, the Norwegian league is ranked higher on the UEFA coefficients table than Sweden...does that mean it is a higher standard than the Swedish league?

DerekD Goldfish

Headshot wrote: »

mate what teams does he referee in fairness,he doesnt have huge matches like el clasico or Milan Derby

iv never see a Norwegian soccer game but I doubt its the same pace as a CL semi final

just low standards

what about the world cup and other european games he has gotten?
you cant confine the top games to refs from the "top" leagues
give refs from all contries thier chances in European Qualification games and international friendlies if they do a good job and work thier way up they deserve their chance

He was poor tonight but ive seen plenty of performances as bad from english, spanish and Italian refs

Headshot

they're fast to edit

Øvrebø has refereed 205 matches in the Norwegian Premier League since his debut on September 20, 1992. In 1994 he became an authorised FIFA referee, and has refereed many matches in the UEFA Cup and UEFA Champions League. He won the Kniksen award as referee of the year in the Norwegian Premier League for 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005 and 2006. He refereed the cup finals in Norway in 1999 (Rosenborg - Brann) and 2006 (Fredrikstad - Sandefjord).

He was chosen to referee at Euro 2008 - his first major tournament and the first time he was chosen over fellow countryman and colleague Terje Hauge. He refereed the Germany - Poland match on the opening day of Group B. He refereed the Italy - Romania match which resulted in a 1-1 draw. The Italian Football Federation later demanded an apology from UEFA after Luca Toni’s goal was incorrectly ruled out for offside in the Italy - Romania match that Øvrebø refereed.[2] There was also criticism of the official for a penalty shot given to Romania and a yellow card to Daniele De Rossi at the ending moments of the game. Afterwards, Øvrebø admitted he had made a mistake during the game.[3] Øvrebø was not assigned any more matches to referee at Euro 2008.[4]. Øvrebø has recently been the target of further criticism when refereeing the second leg of 2009 semi-final of the UEFA Champions League between Chelsea and FC Barcelona, when no less than four penalty decisions were contested by the Chelsea team, [5] prompting Chelsea fowrard Didier Drogba to controversially dub the game a "****ing disgrace". [6] He was preselected as a referee for the 2010 FIFA World Cup.[7]

That_Guy

Looks can be deceiving. What may be deemed as a right decision in that moment in time is not always correct and it was proven yesterday and tonight in both matches.

Video Ref's need to be brought in for big decisions like these. It'll also cut out the cheating players do i.e Drogba tonight. An absolutely farcical display of cheating. He should be ashamed of himself.

CHD

If there was video refs Chelsea would be going to Rome so im all for them!

kyp_durron

I propose a robot referee.

We can build it, we have the technology.

MIN2511

Drogba's antics are appaling! Like a spoilt child, Chelsea will do well to sell him(if anyone wants him) this summer. I have watched most of the match again at this over and over, the ref refused Chelsea two decent penalties(hand balls) all the other's were Drogba's diving, acting out or just being childish.
It's amazing how, he gets away with things like that.
I reckon the refs have to consider how high profile the players are before the match. Neither teams from yesterday got preferential treatment in my opinion-twas just bad refereeing!
Will love to know who will ref the final.

Dubliner28

CHD wrote: »

If there was video refs Chelsea would be going to Rome so im all for them!

What about the peno Barca should have had in the first leg and the sending off.

Davei141

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Abidal tripped Anelka telepathically?

Tiny clip on the heels is all it take's. Nice try at being funny though. The sending off was harsh on the player but it was correct. If he wasn't sent off we would have the same people saying it was never a sending off reversing their opinion just because it adds weight to their argument that the ref was poor. Chelsea had 1 legitimate peno claim turned down. Drogba deciding to dive instead of boot the ball into the back of the net was not the refs fault.

I find the witch hunt on SSN disgusting, they had Dermot Gallagher on and the presenter was trying his best to put words in his mouth and put the boot into the ref. Whenever he didn't get the answer he expected/wanted he went silent for a few minutes. Gob****es.

monkey9

CHD wrote: »

If there was video refs Chelsea would be going to Rome so im all for them!

Not neccessarily! Henry would have had his peno in the 1st leg and things could have been different.

monkey9

MIN2511 wrote: »

Drogba's antics are appaling! Like a spoilt child, Chelsea will do well to sell him(if anyone wants him) this summer. I have watched most of the match again at this over and over, the ref refused Chelsea two decent penalties(hand balls) all the other's were Drogba's diving, acting out or just being childish.
It's amazing how, he gets away with things like that.
I reckon the refs have to consider how high profile the players are before the match. Neither teams from yesterday got preferential treatment in my opinion-twas just bad refereeing!
Will love to know who will ref the final.

What i find hilarious is that Drogba cheats to try and win games. But he feels cheated by the ref last night??!!!! Delicious irony!