Local election options/or lack of.

starbelgrade

Jabby wrote: »

Isn't it depressing to see the same old faces on their posters, smiling down on us with their cheesey smiles from their perches high up on the poles. Why in the name of God can we not entice some young energetic bright people to run for local office instead of these aging gob****es? The last time I saw some of the local representatives was on their last posters.

90% of them should piss off and do something else.:mad:

Not strictly true - running for the Coolaney / Ballinacarrow / Ballisodare elections are Alywn Love (Labour) & Dara Mulvey (Fine Gael), both of whom are fairly young in political terms and both are very active community members & campaigners.

Yep, they're both alligned with political parties, but in local elections, that really doesn't have a huge bearing, unless you are totally averse to their party, as I am with Fine Gael. I know that Alywn Love ran as an independant in the last elections & he believes that he'll have a better chance with a national party behind him and I wish him all the best - he'll be getting my vote, despite the ridiculous "Love" campaign the Labour Party mounted for him over Valentine's Day. I mean I like the guy as a politician, but I don't want to get a feicin Valentine's card off of him!

I'm not sure who's running elsewhere, but I suspect there are young candidates running in most local elections. And as someone else pointed out - youth is no guarantee of bright, energetic politics. Just take the likes of Marc Mc Sharry, who keep the old school Fianna Fail flags flying high.

As for running for elections yourself - it's fairly straightforward. All you need is 6 people in your area to nominate you, then apply to your local council (though I think the deadline is today). You may well run once or twice before anyone takes any real notice of you and you'd be well advised to involved in as many community activities as possible - you need to be visible - people rarely vote for someone they have never met or heard of.

But if you do decide to go for it, best of luck!

starbelgrade

Ogham wrote: »

If you don't want someone to be elected don't give them any vote at all - leave them off altogether. You don't need to choose as many as possible - that's stupid - otherwise there is a channce your top preferences won't get in and your vote will transfer to the person you "don't like".
No wonder we have such a bad government if this is how people think they should vote.

Hang on a second - I might be wrong in what I posted - but don't dare think that I am in any way stupid, or in any way responsible for the bad government we have as I have never voted Fianna Fail.

My understanding of it is, is that by not numbering all the candidates, your vote is not counted in all the rounds. Now, I may well be wrong and I am open to correction, but I will NOT be slandered by association with the government.

starbelgrade

From what I understand, with Preference Voting (PV)—the voter simply ranks candidates in an order of preference (1,2,3,4, etc…). Once a voter’s first choice is elected or eliminated, excess votes are “transferred” to subsequent preferences until all positions are filled.

Voters can vote for their favorite candidate(s), knowing that if that candidate doesn’t receive enough votes their vote will “transfer” to their next preference. With preference voting, every vote counts and very few votes are wasted.

Is it not better then, that if I don't want Fianna Fail in local government, to put them last rather than express no opinion by leaving them off the ballot paper? I would really like to know as I have never actually preferenced more than 3 candidates in previous elections & I heard someone on the radio last week discussing this to the contrary.

Ogham

As I said before - you don't vote for people unless you want them to be possibly elected by your vote. You can vote for 1 or all of the canditates or any number in between - but leaving a candidate off is the only way of ensuring they don't get a vote from you via a transfer.

See this for the full story

starbelgrade

Ogham wrote: »

As I said before - you don't vote for people unless you want them to be possibly elected by your vote. You can vote for 1 or all of the canditates or any number in between - but leaving a candidate off is the only way of ensuring they don't get a vote from you via a transfer.

See this for the full story

I've read that before - and I may be just missing something - but it doesn't fully explain it to me.

Ok, it says "You indicate your first choice by writing 1 opposite your first choice and 2 opposite your second choice, 3 opposite your third choice and so on. You may stop marking your paper after 1 or any subsequent preference or you may go right down the ballot paper until a preference has been given to all candidates ending with the candidate of your lowest choice.

When you vote like this, you are instructing the Returning Officer to transfer your vote to the second choice candidate if your first choice is either elected with a surplus of votes over the quota or is eliminated. If your second choice is elected or eliminated, your vote may be transferred to your third choice and so on."

So, surplus and unused votes are passed down in each round, so is it not better to specify all the preferences so that you at least have a say in each round? If there are multiple seats, surely it's better to list the lesser of the evils for subsequent seats than not (even if you only want to vote for one candidate)?

Plus, is it not giving those who have balloted all candidates more of a say in the election? Like I said, I never filled the ballot paper before, but I heard a discussion to the contrary & thought I had previously been misled.

il gatto

starbelgrade wrote: »

I've read that before - and I may be just missing something - but it doesn't fully explain it to me.

Ok, it says "You indicate your first choice by writing 1 opposite your first choice and 2 opposite your second choice, 3 opposite your third choice and so on. You may stop marking your paper after 1 or any subsequent preference or you may go right down the ballot paper until a preference has been given to all candidates ending with the candidate of your lowest choice.

When you vote like this, you are instructing the Returning Officer to transfer your vote to the second choice candidate if your first choice is either elected with a surplus of votes over the quota or is eliminated. If your second choice is elected or eliminated, your vote may be transferred to your third choice and so on."

So, surplus and unused votes are passed down in each round, so is it not better to specify all the preferences so that you at least have a say in each round? If there are multiple seats, surely it's better to list the lesser of the evils for subsequent seats than not (even if you only want to vote for one candidate)?

Plus, is it not giving those who have balloted all candidates more of a say in the election? Like I said, I never filled the ballot paper before, but I heard a discussion to the contrary & thought I had previously been misled.

If, by some chance, it went to a 20th count (it won't, but bear me out), most people would not have marked a 20th preference. If you had put a FF candidate as you 20th preference, that could see him elected. Not voting beyond your actual preferences still give you a say in each round, as your preference has been either elected or eliminated, your ballot will not help elect someone you wouldn't wanted elected. I believe we need the "wouldn't give him the steam of me ...." argument when voting. Don't give a scrap to those you feel unelectably inept and corrupt.

rcecil

Sean Macmanus and company have a great record of defending working class voters and progressive politics. They were the only party right on Lisbon, right on the economy (who are the loolas now?) right on the environment and human rights and even detractors can't say anything about constituent service. SF was the first party to put forward a job creation and retention program. Pearse Doherty's paper on "The West's Awake" is a model for clear thinking in our region.If you really want a change vote Sinn Fein! If you vote for the corporate parties or so called independents what are you really getting? nuff said

il gatto

bobcar61 wrote: »

Earning 17k a year isn't the greatest salary,they wont be millionaires anytime soon if they stay on that wage.
I think it's experience that people want though,it could be a total waste of time voting someone in who has never done this before.

I thought I posted some response but it seems to have vanished. Basically multiple quangos are divvied up after the election, each councillor being paid for being on them. Any addittional title such as mayor or deputy mayor, receives a hefty wedge as well. Deputy mayor get 10-12k a year for doing nothing. Councillors tend to come out with 25-30k+ a year, and only a handful are full time, most do it as an aside to their day jobs. Certain "decisions" go their way too (Houses selling above market value to council, anyone?).

Link http://www.independent.ie/national-news/revealed-councillor-pay-surge-hits-836483m-1441998.html

il gatto

Oh, and I believe there's certain tax breaks for the councillors unfortunate enough to be saddled with the extra income of mayorship or deputy mayorship. It's certainly tough at the top alright.

Culchie

starbelgrade wrote: »

Not strictly true - running for the Coolaney / Ballinacarrow / Ballisodare elections are Alywn Love (Labour) & Dara Mulvey (Fine Gael), both of whom are fairly young in political terms and both are very active community members & campaigners.

Yep, they're both alligned with political parties, but in local elections, that really doesn't have a huge bearing, unless you are totally averse to their party, as I am with Fine Gael. I know that Alywn Love ran as an independant in the last elections & he believes that he'll have a better chance with a national party behind him and I wish him all the best - he'll be getting my vote, despite the ridiculous "Love" campaign the Labour Party mounted for him over Valentine's Day. I mean I like the guy as a politician, but I don't want to get a feicin Valentine's card off of him!

I hear you regarding seperating the bloke from the party, I've had alot of dealings with one of the aforementioned, I won't say which as I might be presumed bias ... but the amount of work they are putting in deserves election, regardless of party allegiance..... and this is not just around election time, like alot of the politicians, but over the last 2/3 years.

starbelgrade

il gatto wrote: »

If, by some chance, it went to a 20th count (it won't, but bear me out), most people would not have marked a 20th preference. If you had put a FF candidate as you 20th preference, that could see him elected. Not voting beyond your actual preferences still give you a say in each round, as your preference has been either elected or eliminated, your ballot will not help elect someone you wouldn't wanted elected. I believe we need the "wouldn't give him the steam of me ...." argument when voting. Don't give a scrap to those you feel unelectably inept and corrupt.

I see - that clears that one up!

starbelgrade

Culchie wrote: »

I hear you regarding seperating the bloke from the party, I've had alot of dealings with one of the aforementioned, I won't say which as I might be presumed bias ... but the amount of work they are putting in deserves election, regardless of party allegiance..... and this is not just around election time, like alot of the politicians, but over the last 2/3 years.

Very true - I don't see anyone else in the area who's grafted like them... I might even consider giving the Fine Gaeler my 2nd vote, though I will have to consider that one very carefully.

fmcc

Radio one with pat kenny has north west election on at the moment from the glasshouse.

tuppence

fmcc wrote: »

Radio one with pat kenny has north west election on at the moment from the glasshouse.

Focus mainly on the European elections
http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-120509-53m28s-patkenny.mp3

il gatto

There'll be an hour's lenght repeat from 2:30a.m. or you can listen back on the RTE website.

EuskalHerria

Just for people who may be able to listen to it in the mornings between 10 and 11, Ocean Fm are running regional debates with all those standing for elections. Gives people more info on the candidates from their area. Today was ballymote was pretty basic politics even for local politics. Schedule is as follows :

Wednesday 13th - Manorhamilton
Thursday 14th - Drumcliffe
Friday 15th - Sligo East Ward
Monday 18th - European North West
Tuesday 19th - Bundoran
Wednesday 20th - Glenties
Thursday 21st - Ballyshannon
Friday 22nd - Donegal
Monday 25th - Dromore West
Tuesday 26th - Dromahair
Wednesday 27th - Sligo West Ward
Friday 29th - Tubbercurry
Tuesday 2nd June - Sligo-Strandhill
Wednesday 3rd June - Sligo North Ward

magnumlady

I really wish they would ban those posters, does anyone vote for people because of their posters?
I think they are an eyesore and half of them were blowing all over the place last week, my car got hit by labour:eek:

starbelgrade

magnumlady wrote: »

I really wish they would ban those posters, does anyone vote for people because of their posters?
I think they are an eyesore and half of them were blowing all over the place last week, my car got hit by labour:eek:

They only look good when they've been altered (known in legal terms as "vandalised").







And this one is scary - more so because, it is in fact an actual real poster...



And I thought, Brian Cowen had paintings removed from galleries by the Gardai, so he could use them in his campaign, but alas, no.



As Cowen seems to think he's God these days, perhaps my comment will be subject to the blasphemy laws.

And before you can say, "Leave Bertie A Loan"....

cronndiesel

starbelgrade is right use up all your vote as best you can- just a bare stroke and run is only a joke too many people are afraid of their lives to be seen spending any time at all in the booth. the way some does it and the way they go on about it in the pub seconds later youd think they were ashamed to vote at all!! other countrys have only a bare scrap of democracy- UK and US-remember the george bush voting machine scandal where the stub was barely punched (im sure the iranians and the russans had a great laugh and then the miles of guff blown about freedom and democracy the irish system imo is streets ahead of any of them now if only somethng could be done about the weather!

Jabby

starbelgrade wrote: »

Not strictly true - running for the Coolaney / Ballinacarrow / Ballisodare elections are Alywn Love (Labour) & Dara Mulvey (Fine Gael), both of whom are fairly young in political terms and both are very active community members & campaigners.

Yep, they're both alligned with political parties, but in local elections, that really doesn't have a huge bearing, unless you are totally averse to their party, as I am with Fine Gael. I know that Alywn Love ran as an independant in the last elections & he believes that he'll have a better chance with a national party behind him and I wish him all the best - he'll be getting my vote, despite the ridiculous "Love" campaign the Labour Party mounted for him over Valentine's Day. I mean I like the guy as a politician, but I don't want to get a feicin Valentine's card off of him!

I'm not sure who's running elsewhere, but I suspect there are young candidates running in most local elections. And as someone else pointed out - youth is no guarantee of bright, energetic politics. Just take the likes of Marc Mc Sharry, who keep the old school Fianna Fail flags flying high.

As for running for elections yourself - it's fairly straightforward. All you need is 6 people in your area to nominate you, then apply to your local council (though I think the deadline is today). You may well run once or twice before anyone takes any real notice of you and you'd be well advised to involved in as many community activities as possible - you need to be visible - people rarely vote for someone they have never met or heard of.

But if you do decide to go for it, best of luck!

Thanks S. You're quite right when you say that youth is no guarantee of bright,energetic politics, and I agree with you also when you use that mindless moron McSharry as a perfect example. Anyone who came out with the now infamous statement that he ''was born Fianna Fail'' and he ''will die Fianna Fail'' needs to see someone in the psychiatric profession very quickly if he seriously expects bright thinking people to vote for him.

il gatto

Jabby wrote: »

Thanks S. You're quite right when you say that youth is no guarantee of bright,energetic politics, and I agree with you also when you use that mindless moron McSharry as a perfect example. Anyone who came out with the now infamous statement that he ''was born Fianna Fail'' and he ''will die Fianna Fail'' needs to see someone in the psychiatric profession very quickly if he seriously expects bright thinking people to vote for him.

The personal benefits to those who are "in" have always outweighed what's best for their community or their country. They've had over twenty years to rig the civil service in their favour and a loyal foot soldier gets anything that's going. To leave the party is like a Soviet defecting.

SligoBrewer

rcecil wrote: »

Sean Macmanus and company have a great record of defending working class voters and progressive politics. They were the only party right on Lisbon, right on the economy (who are the loolas now?) right on the environment and human rights and even detractors can't say anything about constituent service. SF was the first party to put forward a job creation and retention program. Pearse Doherty's paper on "The West's Awake" is a model for clear thinking in our region.If you really want a change vote Sinn Fein! If you vote for the corporate parties or so called independents what are you really getting? nuff said

If you vote for Sinn Fein, what paramilitary group are you voting for in disguise? Nuff said.

Mint Sauce

been looking at the whole local election european election thing recently, dont know any of the candiates or what they represent though, anyone know of any independent sites/recources that tell you whos who, their agenda, etc etc.

nicolaonfire

I don't know if I can name names here but there is one particular poster and the youngish candidate wearing a cream suit has definitely got a fake tan for the picture, he is orange and the highlights haha!

I vote by the posters, it's more fun that way!

Jabby

SligoBrewer wrote: »

If you vote for Sinn Fein, what paramilitary group are you voting for in disguise? Nuff said.

Easy known you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Couldn't that same daft comment have been attributed to FG in 1923 (the Green and Tans, Blueshirts etc) FF in 1926 (IRA) or even the Irish Labour Party in 1918 (Citizen Army) and closer to present day ..Democratic Left (Offical IRA) and on and on ....If we all held such simplistic views such as this, we wouldn't vote for anyone now would we?! Nuff said.

SligoBrewer

Jabby wrote: »

Easy known you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Couldn't that same daft comment have been attributed to FG in 1923 (the Green and Tans, Blueshirts etc) FF in 1926 (IRA) or even the Irish Labour Party in 1918 (Citizen Army) and closer to present day ..Democratic Left (Offical IRA) and on and on ....If we all held such simplistic views such as this, we wouldn't vote for anyone now would we?! Nuff said.

Those parties aren't still being led by those figures from the past though are they?

Lovely seeing you actually didn't deny my claim either.

Jabby

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Those parties aren't still being led by those figures from the past though are they?

That would be pretty amazing if those parties were still led by those figures from the past as I think those former figures may well be, er, dead perhaps!

cronndiesel

how come the loyalist terrorists dont have to decommision or disband over 10 years after the good friday agreement?? it was a good friday for them wasnt it and them aledgidly responsible for the worst atroisty of the troubles- dublin/monaghan bombing

the peace process overall is a good idea but it only seems to be an idea for some

i think this is a good thread but to go down the whorey old road of to vote sinn fein or not is only going get it locked as strongly held sentiments will over flow- there are other partys in this and this seems to be the only place where the ordinary people can have a say on it

SligoBrewer

Jabby wrote: »

That would be pretty amazing if those parties were still led by those figures from the past as I think those former figures may well be, er, dead perhaps!

Indicating how ridiculous your statement was when you said it.

EuskalHerria

SligoBrewer wrote: »

If you vote for Sinn Fein, what paramilitary group are you voting for in disguise? Nuff said.

Brewer im sure you know that I am not supportive of the Provisional republican movement on a national level, but do you really think that a vote for local PSF candidates is a vote for an armed wing? I don't agree with PSF on a national level but the efforts and genuine interest that the local candidates have in the areas they represent is unquestionable and to say a vote is going towards a "paramilitary" organisation is laughable an I know your smarter than copping out like that.