Welfare payments for Communions

Gran Hermano

It looks like the Irish government will pay out nearly €2.5 million this
year to families on SW so they can pay for their childrens communions
and confirmations.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6211594.ece

More than 8,000 families have claimed €2.27m in emergency-needs payments this year — an average of €284 — to pay for dresses and suits for their children, a sharp rise on previous years. The scheme is funded by the Department of Social and Family Affairs.

This is the first I've heard of our government subsidising an individual's
religious beliefs. With the state of our economy at the moment I am
appalled that my taxes are spent on this. Am I alone in finding it crazy
we can allocate government funds to sponsor a religious ceremony?
If the government is going to rape me financially with additional income
and health levies I'd rather it was spent on something like the health service,
education or the infrastructure.

raunch

No, you're not alone, it is a crazy waste of money, i'm pretty sure there are a lot more worthy things that need funding.

Mr.Lizard

Will they be offering similar schemes for childhood ceremonies in other religions?

Saint_Mel

Never knew about this payment until I heard about it on the radio the other day! WTF, I thought the government only paid for Mary Harneys dresses, hair,make up etc

Total joke shop that they fork out for this!

I heard one report that families were going to America to buy dresses etc cos its their daughters special day and they didnt want them to feel any less off than other kids in the class!

laurashambles

Okay, this is just ridiculous. You don't NEED a suit or dress to get your first communion, ffs. It's not suposed to be about material things, it's about recieving the holy spirit. (or something) You go up to the alter, you get your wafer, you sit down and have a bit of a pray. End of.

podge3

Gran Hermano wrote: »

This is the first I've heard of our government subsidising an individual's
religious beliefs.

This has very little to do with religion - more to do with showing off and wasting money. Its really like a mini-wedding for the girls.

AFAIK, some schools do it on the cheap by insisting on pupils wearing their school uniform.

Gummy Panda

Wait.. How much was the cancer injection programme for young girls going to cost?

Zadkiel

Eh hello!?
Sunbeds and Limo's don't pay for themselves you know and what Jamelanie wants Jamelanie gets!

Its like Christmas...gone too commeeershal tbh

Mr.Lizard

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Never knew about this payment until I heard about it on the radio the other day! WTF, I thought the government only paid for Mary Harneys dresses, hair,make up etc

Now that is a waste of money! Especially when you consider a plastic bag only costs 15c.

Its not a specific payment for "Communionwear" as such, its an Exceptional Needs Payment from the HSE, which comes from Supplementary Welfare Allowance. It has to be applied for and is at the discretion of the Community Welfare Officer whether to grant it or not.

Exceptional and Urgent Needs Payments :

An Exceptional Needs Payment is a single payment to help meet an essential once-off exceptional expenditure, which a person could not reasonably be expected to meet out of their weekly income.

Examples might include payments made to assist costs in relation to funerals, or to assist payment with electricity or natural gas bill (only in exceptional circumstances).



I'm sure if members of other faiths applied and made a case they were also in exceptional need, it would be granted to them too.

The question is, how to define "exceptional need..."

ibarelycare

Tiaras, diamond necklaces and faux-wedding dresses cost a lot ya know?

Linky

WindSock

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Wait.. How much was the cancer injection programme for young girls going to cost?

Good point, instead of recieving the holy spirit in a transubstantied bit of wafer, would it not be better off if the priest blessed the vaccine instead?

connundrum

All kids should wear their school uniforms on the communion day.

All kids should walk to the church.

All kids should bring prepacked lunch for the occassion (with an extra slice of bread, no butter, if required)

Give me the €2.3m and I'll distibute it amongst the kids on the street who'd kill for a bit of communion.. I'm sure it'd substitute a normal lunch for some.

Disgraceful IMO.

Gran Hermano

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not a specific payment for "Communionwear" as such, its an Exceptional Needs Payment from the HSE, which comes from Supplementary Welfare Allowance. It has to be applied for and is at the discretion of the Community Welfare Officer whether to grant it or not.

Exceptional and Urgent Needs Payments :

An Exceptional Needs Payment is a single payment to help meet an essential once-off exceptional expenditure, which a person could not reasonably be expected to meet out of their weekly income.

Examples might include payments made to assist costs in relation to funerals, or to assist payment with electricity or natural gas bill (only in exceptional circumstances).



I'm sure if members of other faiths applied and made a case they were also in exceptional need, it would be granted to them too.

The question is, how to define "exceptional need..."

If you google "communion welfare payment" you'll find numerous TDs and
MEPs have information on their own websites detailing how you can apply
for a welfare grant specifically for communions or confirmations. Whilst
the payment might have a different name it in reality is a payment
subsidising religious beliefs.

snubbleste

Already discussed http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055489789

Its the TDs who have re-named it. In reality it is the same fund that the Community Welfare Officer gives money out of for cots and buggies, or the "maternity grant" (which you'll find also isn't an official grant). Its all comes from the one pot.

LeixlipRed

This sort of thing makes my head hurt. How is a stupid dress or suit a necessity? There should be a law implemented making it a requirement for all these ceremonies to take place in school uniforms. The commercialisation of communions/confirmations makes a complete mockery of the national school system, where teachers basically spend two years preparing kids to rape the locals for tenners and twenties. Church and state seperation, will it ever happen?? Not likely

podge3

Deleted User wrote: »

Its all comes from the one pot.

That pot needs to be capped PDQ :mad:

podge3

podge3 wrote: »

That pot needs to be capped PDQ :mad:

When it comes to Communions I agree - Communions you have time to plan and save for - even if its only €2 a week from the time the child starts school. By the time they would be making their communion at age 8 you would have enough saved for a lovely communion outfit.

I wouldn't like to see the payment of exceptional needs grants stopped completely. But I would like to see it seriously restricted.

kelle

"Exceptional expenditure", my a**e. You can buy perfect secondhand suits, and dresses with veils in Oxfam at a fraction of the price.

My son got his first holy Communion last weekend. There were little girls whose parents had obviously gone OTT with make-up and hair dos, but there were also girls without makeup and plain hair - and they looked every bit as beautiful.

We hired a bouncy castle and invited a few relations over for a barbecue afterwards, which didn't break the bank and we all had a lovely time.

Saibh

They should be made pay the money back, see how much they will spend then.

esharknz

I don't actually recall my communion costing my parents anything. Used an old, hand me down dress. No function, hair up etc.

I just don't get it.....

Xiney

Saint_Mel wrote: »

WTF, I thought the government only paid for Mary Harneys dresses, hair,make up etc

Ah now in fairness, thank christ they do.

Naked Mary Harney. The economy would be the least of our problems at that stage.

cjt156

kelle wrote: »

We hired a bouncy castle and invited a few relations over...

Xiney wrote: »

Naked Mary Harney.

Its a Win-Win situation, people!

seamus

Saw a child in Louis Copeland the other day getting fitted for a communion suit. I doubt they were on welfare, but they didn't seem like they were exactly loaded either. A Louis Copeland suit that'll be useless in 12 months time cos the child is too big for it? WTF are people thinking?
What's wrong with some nice trousers and a blazer from Penneys, or even splash out from M&S. You'd easily get it for €50.

Jonathan

Gran Hermano wrote: »

It looks like the Irish government will pay out nearly 2.5 million this
year to families on SW so they can pay for their childrens communions
and confirmations.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6211594.ece



This is the first I've heard of our government subsidising an individual's
religious beliefs. With the state of our economy at the moment I am
appalled that my taxes are spent on this. Am I alone in finding it crazy
we can allocate government funds to sponsor a religious ceremony?
If the government is going to rape me financially with additional income
and health levies I'd rather it was spent on something like the health service,
education or the infrastructure.

Are you the fella that was saying you would be flying over to Spain or somewhere to buy cigarettes to avoid paying tax?


I think you were.

You have no right to be complaining because it isn't your money that they are giving out to people on SW.

Saint_Mel

Xiney wrote: »

Ah now in fairness, thank christ they do.

Naked Mary Harney. The economy would be the least of our problems at that stage.

It'd take your mind off the recession! Although maybe not in a good way!

netwhizkid

If the Government are providing money to circumcise islamic babies in the state run health care system then their is nothing wrong with this. Why cut one aspect in particular, the 1 or million is only a fart in a hurricane or the behemoth of Social Welfare and cutting the communion payments will not bring the country out of recession. Rent Allowance and deserted wives payments and unmarried mothers allowance should go first. The amount of dole scroungers claiming this and having their partner or baby daddy living in Council accommodation is unbelievable.

Biggins

Could someone (parent?) correct me on the following...?

I have been told that for a child today to be ALLOWED by the Catholic church in Ireland to take their first holy communion, they have to purchase a number of items - from the church.
I believe that among these items are a prayer book, a cross/medal/on a chain or something that they have to wear on the day? They also have to be only attaired now in certain items which some parishes dictate where the items can be gotten?

I am not a catholic. I don't ask out of any form of dis-like but only ask mainly if it's true that parents are indeed forced to buy some items in order for their child to then be accepted further by the Church of Rome?

wes

Well, to be fair while this is a religous ceremony, its also a cultural one. So I don't see the issue with the government subsidising it. They do this kind of things of cultural activities I assume from time to time.

Biggins

If they are subsidising these "cultural" events, can't other recognised religious organisations then claim religious discrimination if theirs aren't as subsidised equally or at all?

Just a thought...

They could be further opening Pandora's box with this one!







(I await the usual AH jokes about Pandora's box) :pac:

Gran Hermano

Jonathan wrote: »

Are you the fella that was saying you would be flying over to Spain or somewhere to buy cigarettes to avoid paying tax?


I think you were.

You have no right to be complaining because it isn't your money that they are giving out to people on SW.

I think I've a right to discuss how the tens of thousands the government
takes from me each year as income tax/PRSI/health levy is spent.

ejmaztec

Yep, there's nothing as Catholic as a load of parents trying to outspend another bunch of parents for a religious ceremony. It's as close as Ireland can get to those ridiculous American style paedo glamour-fest kiddie beauty pageants.:rolleyes:

wes

Biggins wrote: »

If they are subsidising these "cultural" events, can't other recognised religious organisations then claim religious discrimination if theirs aren't as subsidised equally or at all?

Just a thought...

They could be further opening Pandora's box with this one!







(I await the usual AH jokes about Pandora's box) :pac:

Well, its already open and has been for a while now.

Having said that, I doubt Muslims can claim Ramadan as a ancient Irish tradition or Hindu's claim Diwali as one either. This is what seperates the 2 in my mind.

madonna123

Zadkiel wrote: »

Eh hello!?
Sunbeds and Limo's don't pay for themselves you know and what Jamelanie wants Jamelanie gets!

Its like Christmas...gone too commeeershal tbh

HA LOL!!! Thats pretty funny!
I have a daughter for communion next Saturday, but I have my college final exams on wednesday and the following Monday so she told me last night she didnt care if we didnt have a party or got all dressed up. She said she will wear my sisters old communion dress (my sister is 10 so its not really that old) its is perfect condition, worn for 1 hour in total and she called my aunt while I was studying and asked for a loan of her daughters communion shoes from last year!!
She than called my Mum and asked her could she go to her house after for a little party because I would be too busy to arrange anything.

I was in total shock!!! She is an amazing little girl.. Sorted the whole thing herself!!! We are going to have a big party for her with all the family but she isnt expecting any of it...

Im a single parent and had my daughter very young 16 and I am still in college so Im sure I woud get "Communion money"!!! from the good honest hard working tax payer... but for what???
THE CHURCH DOESNT CHARGE AT THE DOOR .. and there are thousands of Communion dresses and suits hanging in homes all over the country that kids can wear.
Are we that proud that we would never dream of wearing a second hand dress.. BUT rather hold our head up high while lining up in the local welfare office to beg for money to go out and buy a new dress.. BULL SH1T
COP ON PEOPLE.. TEACH YOUR KIDS SOME LIFE LESSIONS

Biggins

wes wrote: »

Well, its already open and has been for a while now.

Having said that, I doubt Muslims can claim Ramadan as a ancient Irish tradition or Hindu's claim Diwali as one either. This is what separates the 2 in my mind.

Good point and while I agree with you, JUST from a devils advocate point of view I ponder the question, as we are allowing into the country other cultures/religions, etc more so now a days, wouldn't us just handing out money to more original "Irish" based cultures/religions be also seen in a discriminatory light?

Sooner or later, someone with a stick up their backside, might take such an issue up with the European Court of Human Rights!

(just thoughts crossing through my empty mind!)

wes

Biggins wrote: »

Good point and while I agree with you, JUST from a devils advocate point of view I ponder the question, as we are allowing into the country other cultures/religions, etc more so now a days, wouldn't us just handing out money to more original "Irish" based cultures/religions be also seen in a discriminatory light?

Sooner or later, someone with a stick up their backside, might take such an issue up with the European Court of Human Rights!

(just thoughts crossing through my empty mind!)

Sure, someone may do that, but until most of the population start celebrating Diwali or Ramadan, i think there case will be on shakey ground. Also, the payment seems to apply to all "exceptional circumstances", so I take it that the law already covers such an eventuallity.

Also, I would assume that other groups can join in on most of the other cultural amenities. They can't all be based on soley on Catholicism.

Zadkiel

madonna123 wrote: »

HA LOL!!! Thats pretty funny!
I have a daughter for communion next Saturday, but I have my college final exams on wednesday and the following Monday so she told me last night she didnt care if we didnt have a party or got all dressed up. She said she will wear my sisters old communion dress (my sister is 10 so its not really that old) its is perfect condition, worn for 1 hour in total and she called my aunt while I was studying and asked for a loan of her daughters communion shoes from last year!!
She than called my Mum and asked her could she go to her house after for a little party because I would be too busy to arrange anything.

I was in total shock!!! She is an amazing little girl.. Sorted the whole thing herself!!! We are going to have a big party for her with all the family but she isnt expecting any of it...

Im a single parent and had my daughter very young 16 and I am still in college so Im sure I woud get "Communion money"!!! from the good honest hard working tax payer... but for what???
THE CHURCH DOESNT CHARGE AT THE DOOR .. and there are thousands of Communion dresses and suits hanging in homes all over the country that kids can wear.
Are we that proud that we would never dream of wearing a second hand dress.. BUT rather hold our head up high while lining up in the local welfare office to beg for money to go out and buy a new dress.. BULL SH1T
COP ON PEOPLE.. TEACH YOUR KIDS SOME LIFE LESSIONS

fair play Madge, your daughter sounds like a sensible young lady.
But the pressure people put themselves under for the kids communion is ridiculous, its not the kids who want most of that ****e imo. The parents are a lot to blame.
And by the parents I mean solely those who go in for the bollocks of the diamante tiara's faux wedding dresses, false tan/ sunbeds and limo's.....fookin madness!

Kimbot

The costs are high but this is a joke.

My son will make his communion next weekend. The cost for the suit etc was €300. Being a child of single parents etc he could get this payment but to be honest I wouldn't even entertain looking for this. I worked my a$$ off and saved for a few months and got him his suit and all and I am glad I am paying for it, next year my nephew will be making his communion and can wear it if need be.

If these types of claims continue to be entertained this country is going to collapse further into debt and pretty quickly too.

podge3

madonna123 wrote: »

HA LOL!!! Thats pretty funny!
I have a daughter for communion next Saturday, but I have my college final exams on wednesday and the following Monday so she told me last night she didnt care if we didnt have a party or got all dressed up. She said she will wear my sisters old communion dress (my sister is 10 so its not really that old) its is perfect condition, worn for 1 hour in total and she called my aunt while I was studying and asked for a loan of her daughters communion shoes from last year!!
She than called my Mum and asked her could she go to her house after for a little party because I would be too busy to arrange anything.

I was in total shock!!! She is an amazing little girl.. Sorted the whole thing herself!!! We are going to have a big party for her with all the family but she isnt expecting any of it...

Im a single parent and had my daughter very young 16 and I am still in college so Im sure I woud get "Communion money"!!! from the good honest hard working tax payer... but for what???
THE CHURCH DOESNT CHARGE AT THE DOOR .. and there are thousands of Communion dresses and suits hanging in homes all over the country that kids can wear.
Are we that proud that we would never dream of wearing a second hand dress.. BUT rather hold our head up high while lining up in the local welfare office to beg for money to go out and buy a new dress.. BULL SH1T
COP ON PEOPLE.. TEACH YOUR KIDS SOME LIFE LESSIONS

I wish there were more single mothers like you. Your daughter gets here savvy from you, no doubt

Your post really is a beacon of light on Boards. Most of the time we just hear/read about people scrounging and screwing the system.

Thanks - and hopefully you will do well in your exams .

Fratton Fred

lets face it, if your ancestor's had taken the soup all those years ago there would be no need for any of this

ejmaztec

Fratton Fred wrote: »

lets face it, if your ancestor's had taken the soup all those years ago there would be no need for any of this

It'll be too hot for soup where you're going.:P

Boskowski

wes wrote: »

Well, to be fair while this is a religous ceremony, its also a cultural one. So I don't see the issue with the government subsidising it. They do this kind of things of cultural activities I assume from time to time.

How one can arrive at such an opinion I don't know.
Communion and confirmation are religious activities. And they have become a ridiculous show of parents outdoing each other with regards to sprucing up their little brats. I can't believe the state actually subsidies that but then not much surprises me anymore...