Nurses claim they're 100e down a week over Budget

ixoy

I saw on RTE news URL="http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0507/nurses.html"]link[/URL that nurses are claiming they're 100e down a week:

Over 40,000 members of the INO said that the pension levy and other new taxes have resulted in a loss of over €100 in their average weekly wage.

Do we know what these new taxes are they're referring to? Because the figures don't seem to add up unless nurses are on a very high wage

Let's assume they're on a high wage of 60k. From their own site URL="http://www.pna.ie/uploads/050309.pdf"]link[/URL the pension levy is €53.71 a week.
Using these figures on a PWC calculator [link] we can see that the supplementary budget means they're down a further 32e a week for a total of 85e. We have to factor in October's early budget income levy (a further 11e) to get close to 100e - that's a total of 96e down from this time last year. These figures are based on a single persion with no children and don't factor in reduced pension contributions.

So are nurses on average on 60k+ or are they factoring in stuff like children's allowance and not just tax (as the report indicated)? I'm very cautious when I hear these figures trotted out as I seem to recall some great exagerration by the CPSU when the levy was first introduced.

Nody

You might have forgotten the lower value on their holiday house in Kroatia/Bulgaria/Rumania/India/Thailand.

ionix5891

I believe nurses and medical staff are in high demand everywhere

why dont they emigrate to wherever they get better wage :pac:

irish_bob

100 a week is nothing considering the deterioration the economy has experienced

they are still paid way more than thier counterparts in the uk and dont say the cost of living is way cheaper over there , even it is , the nurses here still have it better

grahamo

Whats wrong with you lot? Are the nurses not suffering enough for you all? I particularly liked the post urging them all to emigrate.:rolleyes:

ionix5891

grahamo wrote: »

Whats wrong with you lot? Are the nurses not suffering enough for you all? I particularly liked the post urging them all to emigrate.:rolleyes:

if you know you would get better wage would you not immigrate?

whats the alternative sit here in ireland and moan about in boards? at least their profession is in demand and they can ask for increases and probably get them

thats just life

Gumbo

ixoy wrote: »

I saw on RTE news URL="http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0507/nurses.html"]link[/URL that nurses are claiming they're 100e down a week:

Do we know what these new taxes are they're referring to? Because the figures don't seem to add up unless nurses are on a very high wage

Let's assume they're on a high wage of 60k. From their own site URL="http://www.pna.ie/uploads/050309.pdf"]link[/URL the pension levy is €53.71 a week.
Using these figures on a PWC calculator [link] we can see that the supplementary budget means they're down a further 32e a week for a total of 85e. We have to factor in October's early budget income levy (a further 11e) to get close to 100e - that's a total of 96e down from this time last year. These figures are based on a single persion with no children and don't factor in reduced pension contributions.

So are nurses on average on 60k+ or are they factoring in stuff like children's allowance and not just tax (as the report indicated)? I'm very cautious when I hear these figures trotted out as I seem to recall some great exagerration by the CPSU when the levy was first introduced.

i earn 39k, so way less than the 60k figures you used, but heres my breakdown :

paye 137.61
prsi 107.00
income levy 30.59
pension contribution 67.17
pension levy 73.39

them figures are based on the new suplementary budget, so the total money down from say last year is :

paye 35
prsi 40
income levy of 30
pension levy of 73

which works out at about 90e per week, so your figures for the 60k earners may be not far off, i would of thought they would be down more compared to my salary which is only 66% of theires at 60k.

irish_bob

grahamo wrote: »

Whats wrong with you lot? Are the nurses not suffering enough for you all? I particularly liked the post urging them all to emigrate.:rolleyes:

nurses sufferng , thats a joke right

ionix5891

kceire wrote: »

i earn 39k, so way less than the 60k figures you used, but heres my breakdown :

paye 137.61
prsi 107.00
income levy 30.59
pension contribution 67.17
pension levy 73.39

them figures are based on the new suplementary budget, so the total money down from say last year is :

paye 35
prsi 40
income levy of 30
pension levy of 73

which works out at about 90e per week, so your figures for the 60k earners may be not far off, i would of thought they would be down more compared to my salary which is only 66% of theires at 60k.

im director and main employee of small company


36000 left the company account

26000 arrived in my account

remainder went to pay all the taxes (single male with barely any tax credits), prsi/paye and all that was paid by me and the company (employers have to pay too yee know)

and that was in 2008 i dont want to think what this years income after taxes will be

:mad:

oh and then there was damned corpo tax on profits

and all the money spend on accountants to deal with the beuracracy and paperwork in the system

and my pensions is exactly 0 (hey its the private sector)

grrrrr

next public sector employee to moan better consider themselves lucky and they dont have to worry about their company going out of business and loosing their job

.

snubbleste

Over 40,000 members of the INO said that the pension levy and other new taxes have resulted in a loss of over €100 in their average weekly wage.

Does anyone know what figure the INO were claiming as the average wage for nurses the last time they were demanding better pay/conditions?

Dr Galen

i clicked through to the link and there's no mention of the line you quote. I suspect someone somewhere got their figures wrong.

Not very many nurses are on the 60k a year that you'd need to be earning to be losing €100 per week. My wife is a nurse, and without going into too much detail on our finances, we've certainly noticed a drop in her take home since the levies etc kicked in and will again now that the supp budget stuff is in play.

TBH she/we don't have an issue with the extra payments. Needs to be done, country is in crisis. Everyone has to do their bit.

What we do have an issue with though, is throwing good money after bad. Sure revenue needs to generated and spending slashed, but we just don't trust the people in government to use the cash wisely. They've proven themselves to be unable to manage the economy and spending when things were good, so now that things are tough, we're rightly worried.

we've both seen the impact of HSE policy on patient care though. Even without the cutbacks, the HSE and DoH were seemingly incapable of following through on their plans for a world class health service. Throwing money at things did not work, purely because it wasn't targeted at the right things.

Before people jump in and start attacking nurses in general though, I'd pay a word of caution to everything you hear this week. Remember that the INO conference is filled with the vocal, most nurses don't hav much dealing with the INO at all. IN fact many only join to avail of the legal protections and the special offers. They have little or no interest in the trade union movement or what is going on in Kilarney.

BroomBurner

ionix5891 wrote: »

im director and main employee of small company


36000 left the company account

26000 arrived in my account

remainder went to pay all the taxes (single male with barely any tax credits), prsi/paye and all that was paid by me and the company (employers have to pay too yee know)

and that was in 2008 i dont want to think what this years income after taxes will be

:mad:

oh and then there was damned corpo tax on profits

and all the money spend on accountants to deal with the beuracracy and paperwork in the system

and my pensions is exactly 0 (hey its the private sector)

grrrrr

next public sector employee to moan better consider themselves lucky and they dont have to worry about their company going out of business and loosing their job

.

Give it a rest, noone asked you to set up your own company. A nurse comes on to boards, gives a breakdown of the figures of their salary to provide evidence as to where the €100 might come from, and all you can do is come out with self-pitying dribble. At least the nurse poster just stated the facts, didn't read any whiney nonsense out of them.

ixoy

kceire wrote: »

i earn 39k, so way less than the 60k figures you used, but heres my breakdown :

paye 137.61
prsi 107.00
income levy 30.59
pension contribution 67.17
pension levy 73.39

them figures are based on the new suplementary budget, so the total money down from say last year is :

paye 35
prsi 40
income levy of 30
pension levy of 73

which works out at about 90e per week, so your figures for the 60k earners may be not far off, i would of thought they would be down more compared to my salary which is only 66% of theires at 60k.

I'm a little confused by the figures above. The pension levy should be €40.63 a week - I'm guessing your figues are based on being paid fortnightly?

The levy at 2% of 39000 is 15 (39000/52*.02) so the levy figure makes sense but what's the PAYE figure increase? Surely it's only a PRSI increase from last year (increased health levy)? Or am I forgetting some element?

Gumbo

ionix5891 wrote: »

im director and main employee of small company


36000 left the company account

26000 arrived in my account

remainder went to pay all the taxes (single male with barely any tax credits), prsi/paye and all that was paid by me and the company (employers have to pay too yee know)

and that was in 2008 i dont want to think what this years income after taxes will be

:mad:

oh and then there was damned corpo tax on profits

and all the money spend on accountants to deal with the beuracracy and paperwork in the system

and my pensions is exactly 0 (hey its the private sector)

grrrrr

next public sector employee to moan better consider themselves lucky and they dont have to worry about their company going out of business and loosing their job

.

why quote me in your public sector rant????
i wasnt ranting or moaning, just adding proper figures to the post as the OP was using an example.

i posted the figures just to show where the money goes as i had my payslip in hand, is a true eflection. so cop onto yourself. if you have no pension, im afraid thats your fault, nobody elses.

i pay prsi for my state pension and i also pay for my PS pension.

ixoy wrote: »

I'm a little confused by the figures above. The pension levy should be €40.63 a week - I'm guessing your figues are based on being paid fortnightly?

The levy at 2% of 39000 is 15 (39000/52*.02) so the levy figure makes sense but what's the PAYE figure increase? Surely it's only a PRSI increase from last year (increased health levy)? Or am I forgetting some element?

sorry should of been more complete, yes its a fortnightly figure, im down 180 per fortnight, hence the 90 weekly figure.
i cant explain the PAYE increase, i thought that should of been the same but i will ring my salary dept after lunch and see if i can get an answer.

the roo

blame the public sector is that all anyone can do ? the average public sector employee like nurses gardai etc are the people working long shifts on nights and public holidays and christmas and the like they earn an average wage for a tough job and never benefited from the crazy money being paid out in the private sector in wages and bonus payments which public sector dont get. now the private sector are feeling the pinch its time to all blame the public employees ! anyone remembering it was the greed of the private sector i.e. banks builders auctioneers shops car dealers big companies that raped this country for so long

Dr Galen

i really do worry about this country. If this forum and the posts I've been reading here in the last 6 months are anything representative of the population at large then we're screwed. Bitching, moaning and back-stabbing. ON ALL SIDES!

it's been said time and time again and it never seems to get through. Not every Public Service worker is a lazy good for nothing, pension grabbing moron, and the same way not every Private Sector worker is a corrupt builder or crazy banker.

Is it at all possible to debate and discuss the merits of a topic without resorting to the public Vs private mantra's every ****ing time. FFS lads, we have a shower of incompetent fools running the show, the country is an a pretty precarious state, and yet I've not heard or seen one decent attempt at some sort of popular protest. Coming onto an internet forum and lashing out at ordinary workers of all sides strikes me as nothing more than cowardice. If your all so fired up, why aren't you doing something to change things?

Everyone is angry, for different reasons, but some of the stuff I've been reading lately is shameful.

/rant

the_syco

ionix5891 wrote: »

im director and main employee of small company


36000 left the company account

26000 arrived in my account

So you say you pay €200 tax a week? At 20% tax (2008 figures) you should be only paying €150 a week. Get that looked into.

=-=

Nurses, Garda, etc, work shift hours, due to people having accidents at inconvenient times,and thus don't always work 9-5 Monday to Friday...

spank_inferno

the_syco wrote: »

So you say you pay €200 tax a week? At 20% tax (2008 figures) you should be only paying €150 a week. Get that looked into.

=-=

Nurses, Garda, etc, work shift hours, due to people having accidents at inconvenient times,and thus don't always work 9-5 Monday to Friday...

Neither do most of the self emplyed mate

bobbysands81

ionix5891 wrote: »

im director and main employee of small company


36000 left the company account

26000 arrived in my account

remainder went to pay all the taxes (single male with barely any tax credits), prsi/paye and all that was paid by me and the company (employers have to pay too yee know)

and that was in 2008 i dont want to think what this years income after taxes will be

:mad:

oh and then there was damned corpo tax on profits

and all the money spend on accountants to deal with the beuracracy and paperwork in the system

and my pensions is exactly 0 (hey its the private sector)

grrrrr

next public sector employee to moan better consider themselves lucky and they dont have to worry about their company going out of business and loosing their job

.

Go get a job in the public sector if it's so great then.

Dr Galen

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Go get a job in the public sector if it's so great then.

incredibly helpful there buddy. so glad you could join us

Dr Galen

From RTE.ie

HSE may lose €50m over consultants' contract
Thursday, 7 May 2009 12:39
The Public Accounts Committee has been told that the HSE could lose €50m this year because of an irregularity in the new contract for hospital consultants.

HSE Chief Executive Professor Brendan Drumm told the Committee that they had not foreseen the problem and they would have to work to fix the anomaly.

The new consultants' contract was agreed last year after protracted negotiations.

Advertisement
Under the contract, Type A consultants cannot bill health insurers for private patients.

The problem arises when one of these consultants admits a private patient to hospital - the HSE is left to pay the cost because the insurer cannot be asked to foot the bill.

Fianna Fáil TD Sean Fleming said he was shocked by the oversight and called it a backhanded subvention to the insurers.

But the Department of Health's Secretary General Michael Scanlan denied that the oversight resulted in a subsidy to health insurers.

while not wanting to throw things off topic too much. Instead of sniping at each other, take a look at the latest HSE mistake. €50 million pays for a lot of nurses, ambulances, doctors, physios, MRI machines etc.

Riskymove

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

Is it at all possible to debate and discuss the merits of a topic without resorting to the public Vs private mantra's every ****ing time.
/rant

Unfortunately No we cannot

People are not interested in reflecting on the bigger economic picture of how things work (e.g. circular flow of money) to see how if we sack loads of people or cut their wages this will only further reduce any chance of spending on goods and services that are being provided

exaggeration is now rife with every public sector employee on 6 figures for doing nothing and every private sector employee either being sacked or being reduced to minimum wage; it's getting us nowhere.

ixoy

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

Is it at all possible to debate and discuss the merits of a topic without resorting to the public Vs private mantra's every ****ing time.

Agreed - There's too many posters already on this thread on both sides lashing out ("public servants are lucky" "private sector all got billions in bonuses while we slaved" nonsense).

I started this thread though because the figures didn't ring true unless they were on an abnormally high wage in which case they wouldn't get much sympathy. It seems the figures may have been retracted though I'd be curious if my calculations hold up.

Dr Galen

ixoy wrote: »

Agreed - There's too many posters already on this thread on both sides lashing out ("public servants are lucky" "private sector all got billions in bonuses while we slaved" nonsense).

I started this thread though because the figures didn't ring true unless they were on an abnormally high wage in which case they wouldn't get much sympathy. It seems the figures may have been retracted though I'd be curious if my calculations hold up.

and thats the way I took your OP to be. I'd tend to agree that anyone on 60K a year should be able to absorb a loss in that region. My post was aimed more at the usual bandwagon jumpers that appear to have taken over the politics asylum

bobbysands81

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

incredibly helpful there buddy. so glad you could join us

In fairness my post was probably as helpful and insightful as his.

Well it would solve all his financial difficulties wouldn't it or maybe he'd realise that not one single private sector worker pays the same amount of mandatory payments to the Govt as a public sector worker does and things aren't as rosy as he thinks they are.

Conveniently nobody ever mentions that the overwhelming majority of workers in the private sector will not lose their jobs OR take a pay cut in the coming years. Many of those that do will be just responding to market forces for instance brickies getting paid 1.5k a week was never sustainable.

bobbysands81

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

My post was aimed more at the usual bandwagon jumpers that appear to have taken over the politics asylum

Incredibly helpful there too buddy - touché.

Gumbo

ixoy wrote: »

I'm a little confused by the figures above. The pension levy should be €40.63 a week - I'm guessing your figues are based on being paid fortnightly?

The levy at 2% of 39000 is 15 (39000/52*.02) so the levy figure makes sense but what's the PAYE figure increase? Surely it's only a PRSI increase from last year (increased health levy)? Or am I forgetting some element?

just found out that because my pension levy has been reduced from the april budget, therefore i have more taxable income in which paye must be payed.

so in reality, last payday i paid €96 pension levy and €102 PAYE and this fortnight i pay €73 pension levy and €137 PAYE, so they give with one hand and take it straight back with the other :mad:

now its not the cuts i would be annoyed at, its still the unfair levy system that has somebody earning 10k more only payine a few €'s more on levies.

ionix5891

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Go get a job in the public sector if it's so great then.

what would happen when everyone is working in public sector?

communism?

Get that looked into.

i did and the accountant did

employer prsi is included in that 36k since i am employing myself, also a single male i barely have any tax credits as i stated being taxed the most

Give it a rest, noone asked you to set up your own company

thats right lets kill all enterprenurial spirit in this country and lets move to the public sector that will do wonders for our competitiveness on the world stage and will definitely get us out of recession :rolleyes:

Dozen Wicked Words

ixoy wrote: »

Agreed - There's too many posters already on this thread on both sides lashing out ("public servants are lucky" "private sector all got billions in bonuses while we slaved" nonsense).

I started this thread though because the figures didn't ring true unless they were on an abnormally high wage in which case they wouldn't get much sympathy. It seems the figures may have been retracted though I'd be curious if my calculations hold up.

Disclosure: I am a Registered Nurse, qualified 10 years, now working for the HSE. Wouldn't trust the INO as far as I could throw them.

Now thats out of the way.

I would be suspicious of figures put up by all sides in just how much difference the budget has made. These figures are not just based on payslip they factor in what the dreaded "average" nurse would be. As Original post states they are based on single person with no children

Perhaps the 100euro assumption is they drive a petrol car, are second wage earners, 3 kids under 6, pension levy etc etc.

@ Irish Bob. The irish nurse gets considerably more than a UK nurse at present because of the weakness of sterling. When I moved back from UK, my wage was approx 2,000 euro a year more here than there. With cost of living at that time, about parity. Are you suggesting the Irish nurses wage should be based on the strength of Sterling?

@ those posters still under the old-fashioned notion nurses are not losing their jobs.

Nurses are losing their jobs the same as anyone else. A quaint HSE system of contracts mean at least half of the newly qualified nurses in my hospital will not have their contract renewed this month and coming months. Those same nurses that have been to further education for 3 or more likely 4 years. Nurses qualified for two years are not guaranteed their full working hours. The same things are happening in Hospital as everywhere else. Wards close, staff are let go. Because its one here, one there, there are no headlines.

The rest of the country is suffering, nurses are also suffering, no more, no less.

the_syco

ionix5891 wrote: »

since i am employing myself

Ah. That makes

ionix5891 wrote: »

im director and main employee of small company

a bit clearer.

ionix5891

the_syco wrote: »

Ah. That makes

a bit clearer.

i didn't mean to come out as disrespecting nurses (ill need their help if ever end up in hospital)

was just trying to highlight that people in private sector are not doing to good at all and we don't have pensions in some cases or trade unions for that matter to complain on our behalf

just the Fingers Crossed **** Wont Hit the Fan and I dont End Up on the Dole Union