Manchester United v FC Barcelona - Champions league Final

kinaldo

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

Final is gonna be a non-event at this rate. No Márquez, Alves, Abidal, Henry, Iniseta....

I knew this would happen. You would think Barca would be resting a few players like Iniesta by now with Madrid having already thrown the towel in.

Liam O

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Warper wrote: »

Retract my statement, pull my head out of my ass - you make me laugh - it isnt my fault that you are that dumb that you cannot interpret wit when you see it. I had a pop at Ronaldo??? Wake the hell up - everyone has a pop at Ronaldo - he deserves it - the only people that back Ronaldo up are braindead Man Utd fans like yourself that defend every single thing he does.

He deserves it? For what exactly? Getting kicked up and down the field in every match? Having stories in the paper everytime he so much as looks at a camera the wrong way? You've got a serious grudge against Ronaldo and there's no need to try and justify it by calling everyone who doesn't 'braindead'.

I notice you're down as a neutral in the poll. When did you become a Barca fan?

Mitch Connor

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Warper wrote: »

Retract my statement, pull my head out of my ass - you make me laugh - it isnt my fault that you are that dumb that you cannot interpret wit when you see it. I had a pop at Ronaldo??? Wake the hell up - everyone has a pop at Ronaldo - he deserves it - the only people that back Ronaldo up are braindead Man Utd fans like yourself that defend every single thing he does.

So - you weren't having a pop at Ronaldo (if it was tongue in cheek) but then this post implies that you were having a pop at him cause you say he deserves it. Which is it?

cournioni

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

kinaldo wrote: »

Final is gonna be a non-event at this rate. No Márquez, Alves, Abidal, Henry, Iniseta....

I knew this would happen. You would think Barca would be resting a few players like Iniesta by now with Madrid having already thrown the towel in.

You'd be surprised how well teams can actually perform without their best players. Obviously it would be good to have them, but it shouldn't effect the game all that much. Barca still have Messi so there is enough of an event already there!

PHB

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Indeed, and the same injury/supsension thing happened to Untied against Bayern and we all know how that turned out.
Then again, I'm not hugely unhappy about these injuries.

grames_bond

PHB wrote: »

Indeed, and the same injury/supsension thing happened to Untied against Bayern and we all know how that turned out..

thats a very VERY good point! no one gave utd a chance without Keane & Scholes! should be interesting. anyone know what time uefa's ruling on fletch will be? (still think he will miss the game tbh)

raven136

Barcelona (Barcelona fan)

Well as a liverpool fan im preparing my"ye only beat half the Barca team" excuse already:D

Mitch Connor

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

grames_bond wrote: »

thats a very VERY good point! no one gave utd a chance without Keane & Scholes! should be interesting. anyone know what time uefa's ruling on fletch will be? (still think he will miss the game tbh)

I think the importance of having or missing Fletcher in the final will rest on whether Iniesta plays. No idea what time the ruling will be announced. I reckon it will be rescinded, along with Abidals. Don't think Alves should get a reprieve though.

PHB

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

The ruling on Fletcher, Abidal and Alves will be today. It's being based on compassionate grounds, not whether or not it was a foul or not, so it could easily be all three and set a precedent for nobody banned for the final. That said, i'd imagine the feeling that Fletcher got the ball will weigh in on their minds. Not really sure what will happen

A7X

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

raven136 wrote: »

Well as a liverpool fan im preparing my"ye only beat half the Barca team" excuse already:D

Thats what I was waiting for.

grames_bond

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think the importance of having or missing Fletcher in the final will rest on whether Iniesta plays. No idea what time the ruling will be announced. I reckon it will be rescinded, along with Abidals. Don't think Alves should get a reprieve though.

i dont see alves' case even being listened to tbh, it wasnt a striahgt red like the other two (which the commitee could say the refs were a bit card happy, it was 2 seperate yellows in two seperate games, don't think much but hell after the way he played against chelski id say not having him would be an advantage for barca!

Mitch Connor

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

grames_bond wrote: »

i dont see alves' case even being listened to tbh, it wasnt a striahgt red like the other two (which the commitee could say the refs were a bit card happy, it was 2 seperate yellows in two seperate games, don't think much but hell after the way he played against chelski id say not having him would be an advantage for barca!

he is a very good RB, who played poorly against Chelsea, no more. Also, having him would mean they can move Puyol back to CB, which is his better position.

Shanotheslayer

Barcelona (United fan)

raven136 wrote: »

Well as a liverpool fan im preparing my"ye only beat half the Barca team" excuse already:D

Heh, A honest Liverpool fan

As a Barca fan i'll be saying the same if it happens:D

eZe^

Barcelona (United fan)

Mitch Connor wrote: »

he is a very good RB, who played poorly against Chelsea, no more. Also, having him would mean they can move Puyol back to CB, which is his better position.

He is the best RB in the world at the moment. He is the main reason why Messi has been so excellent this year, he allows Messi cut in and be involved in intricate build up play in the centre the park without the team losing width. Infact, I'd probably have him as our 2nd best player overall this year.


Anyway, I think it's tipped from 50-50 in favour of either team to about 65-35 in favour of Man Utd...

Mitch Connor

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Iniesta should be fit for the CL final.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11945_5313132,00.html

Rats

Dave!

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

boooo

I mean... YAY, now we have a proper final !

...:(

cournioni

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Anyone have any luck with tickets??

mike65

Fletcher out of final. Bad luck.

PHB

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Both teams are hurt badly by suspensions then. United missing their only fit DM. Barca missing their two first choice fullbacks. Expect both teams to target these areas.

MisterAnarchy

Barcelona (Neutral)

UEFA are a joke,absolute joke.
They could see nothing wrong with Fletchers sending off,ridiculous.
Is it any wonder there is so much controversy in the game when these apes are legislating.

L'prof

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

UEFA are a joke,absolute joke.
They could see nothing wrong with Fletchers sending off,ridiculous.
Is it any wonder there is so much controversy in the game when these apes are legislating.

Did you really think they were going to overturn 2/3 refereeing decisions when the rules say that yellow and reds cannot be rescinded? It might push them to amend the rules for next season though!

grames_bond

well united and barca both have three days to appeal the decision, dont see any point tbh, seems as if uefa have made their mind up!

MisterAnarchy

Barcelona (Neutral)

jasonorr wrote: »

Did you really think they were going to overturn 2/3 refereeing decisions when the rules say that yellow and reds cannot be rescinded? It might push them to amend the rules for next season though!

I expect justice to be done.
If a player makes a good tackle,winning the ball before the man then it is not a foul.
If its not a foul then it cant be a sending off offence.
Its a shambles .
As regards Abidal's sending off ,well thats just preposterous ,he didnt even touch Anelka.
UEFA have no balls.

L'prof

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I expect justice to be done.
If a player makes a good tackle,winning the ball before the man then it is not a foul.
If its not a foul then it cant be a sending off offence.
Its a shambles .
As regards Abidal's sending off ,well thats just preposterous ,he didnt even touch Anelka.
UEFA have no balls.

Your expectations are far too high, there is nothing UEFA can do within their own rules! This is an obvious case where the rules don't work very well and may well be the cause of those rules being changed in the near future, but United and Barcelona aren't the first teams to have a player wrongly sent off in the Champions League. Why should UEFA make an exception now when they never have before!

grames_bond

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I expect justice to be done.
If a player makes a good tackle,winning the ball before the man then it is not a foul.
If its not a foul then it cant be a sending off offence.
Its a shambles .
As regards Abidal's sending off ,well thats just preposterous ,he didnt even touch Anelka.
UEFA have no balls.

they dont want to be seen as to be going against their refs (whom they apointed) understandable if you ask me........wrong, but understandable!

Mr Alan

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

Fletcher deserved to be sent off. He got a touch on the ball. Correct.

But look at the incident again as two movements,1-the initial tackle. fletcher got a touch, barely. the ball deviated its course a little but was still there for Fabregas to bang it in this was when Flecther pulled him down. Definate penalty. Definate red card.

Mitch Connor

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Mr Alan wrote: »

Fletcher deserved to be sent off. He got a touch on the ball. Correct.

But look at the incident again as two movements,1-the initial tackle. fletcher got a touch, barely. the ball deviated its course a little but was still there for Fabregas to bang it in this was when Flecther pulled him down. Definate penalty. Definate red card.

Alan, weren't you one of the people saying it was never a penalty in the United vs Spurs game? I think the pen for Arsenal is far less a penalty than the one in the Spurs game.

ITT-Pat

Mr Alan wrote: »

Fletcher deserved to be sent off. He got a touch on the ball. Correct.

But look at the incident again as two movements,1-the initial tackle. fletcher got a touch, barely. the ball deviated its course a little but was still there for Fabregas to bang it in this was when Flecther pulled him down. Definate penalty. Definate red card.

I have to disagree with you there but you're on the right track. Personally I dont think Fabregas would have gotten to the ball at the second attempt as VDS gathered it very quickly.

adox

Mr Alan wrote: »

Fletcher deserved to be sent off. He got a touch on the ball. Correct.

But look at the incident again as two movements,1-the initial tackle. fletcher got a touch, barely. the ball deviated its course a little but was still there for Fabregas to bang it in this was when Flecther pulled him down. Definate penalty. Definate red card.

So thats you and the ref that think it was a peno.

everdead.ie

Barcelona (Barcelona fan)

ITT-Pat wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there but you're on the right track. Personally I dont think Fabregas would have gotten to the ball at the second attempt as VDS gathered it very quickly.

Agree completly I think he got enough on it to steer it far enough away from fabergas so that he wouldn't of got it.

Dave!

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Mr Alan wrote: »

Fletcher deserved to be sent off. He got a touch on the ball. Correct.

But look at the incident again as two movements,1-the initial tackle. fletcher got a touch, barely. the ball deviated its course a little but was still there for Fabregas to bang it in this was when Flecther pulled him down. Definate penalty. Definate red card.

I am truely shocked that you are of that opinion...

Mr.Nice Guy

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Loss of Fletcher is a joke decision but I fancy United to win the game. Berbatov to prove the difference and silence the doubters. :cool:

RasTa

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Alan, weren't you one of the people saying it was never a penalty in the United vs Spurs game? I think the pen for Arsenal is far less a penalty than the one in the Spurs game.

+1

everdead.ie

Barcelona (Barcelona fan)

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Loss of Fletcher is a joke decision but I fancy United to win the game. Berbatov to prove the difference and silence the doubters. :cool:

I don't think they could change the rules for just one game of the competition but it should push them to change it for next year.

Adamcp898

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Mr Alan wrote: »

Fletcher deserved to be sent off. He got a touch on the ball. Correct.

But look at the incident again as two movements,1-the initial tackle. fletcher got a touch, barely. the ball deviated its course a little but was still there for Fabregas to bang it in this was when Flecther pulled him down. Definate penalty. Definate red card.

Are you Graham Poll in disguise??

PHB

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Mr Alan, that statement is true of like nearly every tackle where a player just gets a touch. That's not how the rules work.

If you touch the ball before the player, its a fair tackle.

deisedevil

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Mr Alan wrote: »

Fletcher deserved to be sent off. He got a touch on the ball. Correct.

But look at the incident again as two movements,1-the initial tackle. fletcher got a touch, barely. the ball deviated its course a little but was still there for Fabregas to bang it in this was when Flecther pulled him down. Definate penalty. Definate red card.

Seems a bit hypocritical Mr. Alan. Was the penalty United got against Spurs ok now then?

Warper

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

PHB wrote: »

Mr Alan, that statement is true of like nearly every tackle where a player just gets a touch. That's not how the rules work.

If you touch the ball before the player, its a fair tackle.

No, it's not a rule. There is absolutely no rule that says "it's not a foul, if you get the ball", that's a myth.

The actual rule is, if you trip a player in the box in a "manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless, or using excessive force", it's a penalty.

Now the contact with the ball will be a part of how the referee judges whether it was a careless/reckless tackle. If the ball was won firmly and cleanly, it's unlikely to be a penalty, if it's missed completely, it's almost certainly going to be a penalty, but if the ball is just brushed slightly? It's down to the ref's interpretation - but it's definitely within the rules for him to give a penalty and a red card.

The above is taken from the BBC even Ferguson (interviewed after the match) agreed that it was hard for the referee not to send off Fletcher. Most of the panels that were discussing the match afterwards agreed that it was a red card.

IMO Fletcher and Alves have no cases to be made for their cards to be overturned. BTW what is appealing it on compassionate grounds? Abidal should have got his sending off overturned as it was clear that Anelka tripped over his own feet but in reality none of these cards were ever going to be overturned - it would have made UEFA look incompetant in a number of areas. Next year they will have to review their handling of such incidents though.

Mitch Connor

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Warper wrote: »

No, it's not a rule. There is absolutely no rule that says "it's not a foul, if you get the ball", that's a myth.

The actual rule is, if you trip a player in the box in a "manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless, or using excessive force", it's a penalty.

Now the contact with the ball will be a part of how the referee judges whether it was a careless/reckless tackle. If the ball was won firmly and cleanly, it's unlikely to be a penalty, if it's missed completely, it's almost certainly going to be a penalty, but if the ball is just brushed slightly? It's down to the ref's interpretation - but it's definitely within the rules for him to give a penalty and a red card.

The above is taken from the BBC even Ferguson (interviewed after the match) agreed that it was hard for the referee not to send off Fletcher. Most of the panels that were discussing the match afterwards agreed that it was a red card.

IMO Fletcher and Alves have no cases to be made for their cards to be overturned. BTW what is appealing it on compassionate grounds? Abidal should have got his sending off overturned as it was clear that Anelka tripped over his own feet but in reality none of these cards were ever going to be overturned - it would have made UEFA look incompetant in a number of areas. Next year they will have to review their handling of such incidents though.

Clear to everyone but Abidal who admitted he caught Anelka...

Warper

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Clear to everyone but Abidal who admitted he caught Anelka...

He may have made contact with Anelka but that contact was not what made Anelka fall - he tripped over himself - it is clear as day in all the replays and it was Anelka's fall that got Abidal sent off - ie if Anelka hadnt tripped over himself then Abidal would not have got sent off. Anyone got a link to this?

Mitch Connor

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Warper wrote: »

He may have made contact with Anelka but that contact was not what made Anelka fall - he tripped over himself - it is clear as day in all the replays and it was Anelka's fall that got Abidal sent off - ie if Anelka hadnt tripped over himself then Abidal would not have got sent off. Anyone got a link to this?

No - it was Abidals touch on Anelkas left leg that pushed it behind his right leg, and caused him to trip. It was still a harsh red as Toure was covering so I don't think it was a goal scoring opportunity, but I am certain that it was Abidals contact that caused Anelka to fall.

Warper

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

Anyways UEFA were never going to overturn any of the cards - cant see either club appealing the decision now. The main thing for Barca now though is to have Iniesta fit - he really is crucial.

Edit: Referring to Liam O's earlier post - yes I am a Barca fan - i clicked on Barcelona - neutral in error.

Liam O

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Warper wrote: »

No, it's not a rule. There is absolutely no rule that says "it's not a foul, if you get the ball", that's a myth.

The actual rule is, if you trip a player in the box in a "manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless, or using excessive force", it's a penalty.

Now the contact with the ball will be a part of how the referee judges whether it was a careless/reckless tackle. If the ball was won firmly and cleanly, it's unlikely to be a penalty, if it's missed completely, it's almost certainly going to be a penalty, but if the ball is just brushed slightly? It's down to the ref's interpretation - but it's definitely within the rules for him to give a penalty and a red card.

The above is taken from the BBC even Ferguson (interviewed after the match) agreed that it was hard for the referee not to send off Fletcher. Most of the panels that were discussing the match afterwards agreed that it was a red card.

IMO Fletcher and Alves have no cases to be made for their cards to be overturned. BTW what is appealing it on compassionate grounds? Abidal should have got his sending off overturned as it was clear that Anelka tripped over his own feet but in reality none of these cards were ever going to be overturned - it would have made UEFA look incompetant in a number of areas. Next year they will have to review their handling of such incidents though.

Fletcher has as much if not more of a case than Abidal... I was sure Anelka dived but Abidal came out and admitted he fouled Anelka so he doesn't have a case. Fletcher got the ball, the ref just messed up.

PHB

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Fergie didn't say that he thought it was a red. He said that he understood that the ref from his position thought it was a red, as he had the same view and thought the same.

What the specific laws are are pretty unclear, as they could really mean anything. The general rule we play by is that if you get the ball first, without doing something that would be considered a foul, its not a free.

It's not a slight touch, look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGPP_zk4AY

Listen to the commentators, they just talk about how he's got the ball, thats the rule we in reality play by. Fletcher got the ball without fouling Fabregas.

Mr Alan

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

adox wrote: »

So thats you and the ref that think it was a peno.

me, the ref & uefa who according to SSN this evening said even if they were to allow the appeal, the red card would have stood.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Clear to everyone but Abidal who admitted he caught Anelka...

no, no he didnt. read that article again.

Warper wrote: »

No, it's not a rule. There is absolutely no rule that says "it's not a foul, if you get the ball", that's a myth.

thank you.

folks, check out the video PHB posted, look at the video at 46 seconds or so, anyone telling me Fabregas wasn't favourite to still score is deluded.

after the initial tackle is when the foul was commited imo.

Warper

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

folks, check out the video PHB posted, look at the video at 46 seconds or so, anyone telling me Fabregas wasn't favourite to still score is deluded.

after the initial tackle is when the foul was commited imo.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree - it was a red card - there is no argument really. Just saw Graham Poll tonight on Football Matters confirming it was the correct decision - UEFA tonight confirmed it was the correct decision - I mean what else is there to say on the matter?

PHB

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Well if you stopped warping the truth it'd be a start.

UEFA did not confirm today that it was the correct decision. The decision today was in no way in relation to whether the red card was deserved.

---
Mr Alan, are you suggesting that if he had hit the ball harder, and pushed it further away, it wouldn't have been a foul. If so, why?

Warper

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

PHB wrote: »

Well if you stopped warping the truth it'd be a start.

UEFA did not confirm today that it was the correct decision. The decision today was in no way in relation to whether the red card was deserved.

---
Mr Alan, are you suggesting that if he had hit the ball harder, and pushed it further away, it wouldn't have been a foul. If so, why?

Would it be so hard for you to take off your blinkers for a minute and accept the truth? It was a penalty - get over it, every professional referee has came out and said the same thing. Sure what do they know?

Mr Alan

Don't care (just want the game to be a cracker)

Actually PHB, according to SSN Uefa said they rejected the appeal as they do not allow appeals except for mistaken identity, BUT if they did allow the appeal, it would have been in vain as the decision was the correct one.

And yes, i am saying if he kicked the ball out of play or a good few yards away from Fabregas stopping the goalscoring opportunity before bringing down Fabregas it would not have been a foul. As it was, he denied a genuine goal scoring opportunity for Fabregas that was still there for cesc despite Flecthers nick on the ball.

lordgoat

Manchester United (Barcelona fan)

Mr Alan wrote: »

And yes, i am saying if he kicked the ball out of play or a good few yards away from Fabregas stopping the goalscoring opportunity before bringing down Fabregas it would not have been a foul. As it was, he denied a genuine goal scoring opportunity for Fabregas that was still there for cesc despite Flecthers nick on the ball.

You're damn right he denied him a goal scoring opportunity, by putting in a top class last ditch tackle and if i ever catch you near a soccer pitch expect the same!