SF Advice: Akuma

L31mr0d

Few questions, probably not all specific to Akuma.

What is the best action after a blocked dragon punch? I'm usually wide open for a throw. Is there a quick way to recover from this?

Also, if someone lands a jumping kick, is it possible to block the follow up low kick? I can never seem to do this.

I've also found my LK hurricane followed by a HP dragon punch hardly ever makes contact, even if the hurricane landed?

K.O.Kiki

1. Blocked DP == pray. You're at -28 (LP), -34 (MP) or -37 (HP/EX), which means the opponent has half a second to decide how to make you his b*tch.
2. Landed jump kicks (MK?) usually give enough frame advantage to the opponent to allow a follow-up combo (e.g. Abel j.MK, c.MP-> Rekka). You could try a Shoryu, though; or maybe teleport. Or Ultra
3. This one weirds me out too. Dunno how to help on that one.

L31mr0d

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

1. Blocked DP == pray.

balls yeah my biggest source of damage taken is from blocked dragon punches. I don't even attempt them if I'm playing against Ken. It's really hard not to constantly turtle as Akuma as he takes so much damage, even just block damage alone. He's my favourite character but, being that he takes more damage than any other character (besides Seth) it makes it a pain trying to pull off combos. One failed attempt could mean I lose more than 30% of my healthbar, and if I dizzy even once it's game over.

Dreddybajs

You shouldn't have random dragon punches as your gameplan vs any character anyway (unless your name is Daigo). :P

L31mr0d

Dreddybajs wrote: »

You shouldn't have random dragon punches as your gameplan vs any character anyway (unless your name is Daigo). :P

thing is a lot shoryu's land from wakeup (I guess they are trying to get a throw in)

That being said, if I block someone elses shoryu, when I'm Akuma, what is the best followup to take advantage of this?

Doctor DooM

if you absolutely want to use a shoryu on wake up then perhaps use a weak one. You might even get lucky if It's blocked and manage a ducking short on your advancing opponent.

K.O.Kiki

Big combos.
Or, if you can input it during blockstun (or maybe even if they get hit by a jab?), Super/Ultra.

So the lesson is: whoever you are, don't abuse Shoryus on-the-ground.

L31mr0d

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Big combos.

lol... if only, I'll need some more practice to get any form of juggling down :P

For a 1 hit move what is best? An EX-hurricane as they are coming down? Or a lvl2 focus?

Doctor DooM

L31mr0d wrote: »

lol... if only, I'll need some more practice to get any form of juggling down :P

For a 1 hit move what is best? An EX-hurricane as they are coming down? Or a lvl2 focus?

if You're having trouble with timing combos i'd start with ducking fierce cancel into a fireball. The ducking fierce hurts even if you mess up. When you get that working, move onto the standing fierce into a shoryu. Meat and veg of shotoclone fighting, those two.

L31mr0d

SDooM wrote: »

ducking fierce

what do you mean by "ducking fierce"... is this c.HP or c.HK? Sorry not fully up on the terminology yet.

Doctor DooM

C hp.



sorry It's a term from the old days

A-Trak

SDooM wrote: »

The ducking fierce hurts even if you mess up. When you get that working, move onto the standing fierce into a shoryu. Meat and veg of shotoclone fighting, those two.

Yup,

Easy to pull off and punish shoryu happy folk.

Using the fierce shoryu is only an option in a combo for me. Akuma takes too much of a beating so you need to be sure you're shryu will hit, otherwise you're gonna take big damage.

An easy big damage combo with both the fiecre shoryu and light hurricane kick is :
Jumping Fierce Kick, Standing Fierce Punch, Cancel into Light Kick Hurricane Kick, juggle with fierce Punch Shoryuken.
That'll hurt anyone.

L31mr0d

A-Trak wrote: »

juggle with fierce Punch Shoryuken.

Yeah I've got most of that down, but I've found the HP shoryu hardly ever lands, even in practice, which leaves me wide open. I usually don't even attempt it now after the LK hurricane.

animaX

L31mr0d wrote: »

What is the best action after a blocked dragon punch? I'm usually wide open for a throw. Is there a quick way to recover from this?

There is a way to avoid this but its tricky to do and not always possible. The trick is focus cancel. As soon as you realise that it has been blocked you have a few miliseconds in which to focus cancel and dash back away from danger. Its great when it works but of course it uses up 2 super bars.

Leprekaun

An important thing to remember when using an Ansatsuken fighter is that you should never randomly use the shoryu. I still do myself from time to time out of habit but its a really bad idea.

Its best used as an anti air or combo. Even using it as a get up attack is risky because if the other guy is expecting it, he can block it and punish you for it. I only use it as a get up attack when I see that he's trying to poke me away (lots of c.lp) then I can be sure that I'll get him or if he's right up next to me going for a throw.

In terms of combos, after watching some tournament vids with players like Daigo, Poongko and Fudo, I learnt that a great safety system that you can use, although hard to execute is to do c.lpX2 then c.hp then whatever special move (with Akuma, obvious best option would be light tatsu). Although with Akuma, you can't connect his c.hp after his c.lp so you'd have to revert to using c.mp and might also be a safer option to do the same if using Ken because its hard to link and in comparison to the both of them, this is where Ryu excels as its so much easier to link that combo. Shame Gouken can't do the same although in fairness, he'd be way too strong then . I also found that these poke combos are brilliant to use for charging characters like Guile, Chun-Li or Bison as it gives you time to charge while not looking an idiot crouching in the corner charging.

And about linking his shoryu after the tatsu, I found that if you do the shoryu as soon as you can, it'll link every time.

Cunny-Funt

L31mr0d wrote: »

What is the best action after a blocked dragon punch? I'm usually wide open for a throw.

Just be thankful all they're doing is a throw hehe

L31mr0d wrote: »

Also, if someone lands a jumping kick, is it possible to block the follow up low kick? I can never seem to do this.

No cause this is the 1st hit of a combo, the whole point of a combo is you can't block it once the 1st hit connects.

L31mr0d wrote: »

I've also found my LK hurricane followed by a HP dragon punch hardly ever makes contact, even if the hurricane landed?

One thing you could try I guess, is spamming the flying FOOK out of the dragon punch motion while akumas landing that spin kick. If your playing as akuma you really need to be able to do this move.

L31mr0d wrote: »

That being said, if I block someone elses shoryu, when I'm Akuma, what is the best followup to take advantage of this?

HP into light spin kick into heavy dragon punch. If you still find that hard, the auld HP into HP dragon punch will do. OR medium kick into H dragon punch.

FutureGuy

L31mr0d wrote: »

Few questions, probably not all specific to Akuma.

What is the best action after a blocked dragon punch? I'm usually wide open for a throw. Is there a quick way to recover from this?

Also, if someone lands a jumping kick, is it possible to block the follow up low kick? I can never seem to do this.

I've also found my LK hurricane followed by a HP dragon punch hardly ever makes contact, even if the hurricane landed?

1) The best piece of advice I can give you is stop using them only when you know they are going to connect. If you are getting thrown, you are lucky as you could be punished alot more severley. When using DP as anti-air, use the LP version as you will have more time to follow up the attack.

2) It's all about timing and the stength of your kick. Go into training mode and put the computer on blocking and practice. Once you have this down, its very had to block the CK once the JK connects.

3) You can connect with very precise timing, but if you miss, you are going to get punished severly.

Leprekaun

Also, when it comes to combos, try to wait just a bit after the fly kick before going into the c.mk. Something that I learnt of myself that whenever I used to not get it before, it was because I rushed the whole process.

My biggest bit of advice would be to play through the Hard trials for Ryu, Akuma and especially Ken because his combos are the hardest to execute but are brilliant for sorting out your mental timing for combos. They're crazy hard, I know (I spent 3 days (round 6 hours in total) trying to do Ken's 4th trial ) but once you get into the groove, you should be able to fly through them

L31mr0d

Quick question, how do you work out when you will have priority in a flying kick?

When you jump in and they jump to meet you, how do you know when you have priority or not? 9 times out of 10 I'll find my opponent lands their kick and I don't. How is it judged?

Also, during a demon flip, I've found a lot of players will jump to meet me mid air and kick me, what is a good defence against this?

thelinked

Just looked at akumas frame data and his air kicks have very low active frames. j.MK and j.HK are only active for 3 frames compared to ryu where its 6 frames for j.MK and 7 for j.HK. I think whats happening to you is that the other player is hitting you just as your moves active part is finishing up. Just don't try to trade in the air as your at a disadvanage most of the time.

L31mr0d

thelinked wrote: »

Just looked at akumas frame data and his air kicks have very low active frames. j.MK and j.HK are only active for 3 frames compared to ryu where its 6 frames for j.MK and 7 for j.HK. I think whats happening to you is that the other player is hitting you just as your moves active part is finishing up. Just don't try to trade in the air as your at a disadvanage most of the time.

I'm starting to think Akuma is a bit of a turkey. Aside from airfireballs and red fireballs I'd be better off playing with Ryu or Gouken

Also, thelinked, where did you get that frame info on the kicks?

Doctor DooM

L31mr0d wrote: »

I'm starting to think Akuma is a bit of a turkey. Aside from airfireballs and red fireballs I'd be better off playing with Ryu or Gouken

Also, thelinked, where did you get that frame info on the kicks?

I'd agree. Akuma is like a hot lookking car with a 1 litre engine.

D4RK ONION

And so the overpowered had become the underpowered... Oh fate you cruel wench!

Azza

You can only really learn the priority of moves by having having first hand experience. The more games you play the greater your understanding will be.

Akuma isn't either underpowered or overpowered, hes decent overall. You just need to know how to play him better.

Dreddybajs

He was only ever overpowered in ST anyway

Azza

And by the looks of it HD Remix as well.

Dreddybajs

Yeah, I was counting HDR there, he's most definitely still broken in it.

Doctor DooM

He's not really over or underpowered. It's just that if you're a risk taker- and less experienced people take risks/ make more mistakes- you get nailed with akuma. Just the nature of the character.

thelinked

L31mr0d wrote: »

I'm starting to think Akuma is a bit of a turkey. Aside from airfireballs and red fireballs I'd be better off playing with Ryu or Gouken

Also, thelinked, where did you get that frame info on the kicks?

Here you are, http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Street_Fighter_IV. That page has about everything you'll ever need. Go down to the character section for links to each characters page. The akuma page is HUGE.

L31mr0d

SDooM wrote: »

It's just that if you're a risk taker- and less experienced people take risks/ make more mistakes- you get nailed with akuma. Just the nature of the character.

I think that's it. I play against people who are probably around the same experience as me, and they take risks and make mistakes in equal amounts as me, but of course as my health is lower I'm dying first.

What's irritating is that I can usually win with Ryu or Sagat lately, but I just don't like them as characters.

What I've found though is that 9 times out of 10 I'll beat someone else whos playing as an Akuma. Although I think that's probably only because n00bs play with Akuma when they unlock him, end up hating him and move on to playing with Ken or Ryu

Ivan

I personally found that I had issues playing Akuma successfully at all. Then I unlocked Seth and started playing him, got into the habit of zoning somewhat effectively and knowing when to jump in and when to stay out. Then going back to Akuma I've found that my playstyle with him has improved greatly though Seth will always be my one and only

Cunny-Funt

L31mr0d wrote: »

I'm starting to think Akuma is a bit of a turkey. Aside from airfireballs and red fireballs I'd be better off playing with Ryu or Gouken

If your still basing your entire game around airfireballs and red fireballs then yes you'd be better off with ryu or ken etc for sure.

As for the whole flying kick thing, this is an element known as the interception flying kick. The other guys almost waiting for you to jump in and he'll jump up to meet you, pressing the kick button just as he leave the ground, and thus a lot sooner than you'd press yours.

I picked up the habit of interception flying kicks from playing 3s, and I do it on reaction without thinking. This works out great for me 90% of the time.

1 massive problem with this is when I'm against bison, his headstop causes me to jump into it, as on reaction I jump to intercept the milisecond I see someone leave the ground. So doing things on reaction is not always a good idea but as its something done on a reaction and not entirely planned its hard not to. Having fast reactions while generally a good thing to have in this game, it can leave you open to manipulation/mindgames which is a massive part of street fighter.


One last thing on interception kicks etc, with akuma I'd air spin kick more than just normal kick. In 3s you could juggle a dragon punch etc off of this when landing it in the air. But in sfiv you can only juggle if you land the spin kick on the way down from the jump. Which is a pity:(

If people are always being you in the air, try using medium kicks or even light punches.

L31mr0d

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

One last thing on interception kicks etc, with akuma I'd air spin kick more than just normal kick. In 3s you could juggle a dragon punch etc off of this when landing it in the air. But in sfiv you can only juggle if you land the spin kick on the way down from the jump. Which is a pity:(

I'm starting to realize I should probably stop being so aggressive as Akuma, he's more of a defensive player. I was constantly jumping in, getting my j.HK blocked then being punished for it. Making them jump or dash towards me seems to be best.

Also, Vega, I have no clue how to fight him. My matches against a good Vega consist of constantly teleporting left and right trying to avoid his cross up moves. A decent Vega can avoid nearly all of my fireballs and won't let me even get close to try for a combo. What's the best strategy against Vega as Akuma?

Cunny-Funt

Vega still confuses me so I still dunno for sure. All my matchs against vega , win or lose, always seem so random and messy. I dunno about fireballs they leave you open too long and vega just seems like a homing missile. & that on a press of a button he can flyover to you and hit you no matter what.


Watching for when he jumps at you , and then jumping back and HKing him works sometimes.

Some vegas like to do that backflip thing on wake up. Which makes them invincible for a second. You can try and manipulate these vegas, walk up to them when they're on the ground, make it look like your going to try and hit them as they wake up. But doing a raging demon instead timed so it'll land while he's ending his backflip.

Also baiting him into sliding kicking, focas that **** and combo him then. But really I dunno much about vega , I've never picked him once in the game yet so I guess I should. Azza and others know vega they'll hopefully give a better answer.

CodeMonkey

L31mr0d wrote: »

I'm starting to realize I should probably stop being so aggressive as Akuma, he's more of a defensive player. I was constantly jumping in, getting my j.HK blocked then being punished for it. Making them jump or dash towards me seems to be best.

How you play depends on what characters you are playing against and your opponents play style. I think a big problem with your game is that it's too predictable and you rely on fireballs too much. Your strategies needs to be more adaptable.

Also, Vega, I have no clue how to fight him. My matches against a good Vega consist of constantly teleporting left and right trying to avoid his cross up moves. A decent Vega can avoid nearly all of my fireballs and won't let me even get close to try for a combo. What's the best strategy against Vega as Akuma?

Abuse Vega's lack of AA after a knock down. Cross him up. It's very effective against Vega when done right. Even a jump in heavy kick followed by a throw is very effective. Azza was abusing me with that last night with his Ryu.

I see you jumping back and do the flowchart Akuma air fireball pretty much every time you score a knock down when I fought you last. It also takes practice to use those strategies. Don't give up on it if it doesn't work for you from the start. It probably just means you need practice.

Azza

Poor old Vega....my what a fall from grace. He was listed last in the tier listing for the arcade release.

Here is a list of Vega's Pro.

He's got great pokes.
His ex wall dive is good.
His Focus Attack has great range.
Not used often and is quite a mystery to many players.

Now for the cons.

His Wall Dive sucks, its too slow and most jumping punches stuff it.
His Crystal Roll is too slow, hard to land, easy to counter.
His flip is unsafe on wakeup and generally very easy to punish.
He has no normal cross ups.
He's normal air moves have poor priority, trade unfavourable in alot of circumstances.
Lacks a decent reversal.
Most of his moves are unsafe on block.
His super bar is wasted if he misses the super, super does little damage.
He takes more damage when he looses his mask and does less damage and loses range when he loses his claw, which happens very easily.
His Scralet Terror is poor AA, has to be done early to have a chance of winning, can not be used as a reversal on wakeup.
Has very poor AA in general.
His Ultra is impossible to setup unless your playing a dozy fireball spammer.

Once you get in on Vega or get him in a corner, he is in woefull trouble. He has no get the hell of me moves and suffers against cross ups big time.

Vega needs some buffs. He needs to have his moves sped up, a mask and claw that don't fall off as much and a scarlet terror that can be used quite late as AA.


Oh and Cunny...getting counter hit with an EX Headstomp in the air is not a good thing for Akuma. Considering a counter hit EX Headstomp does 250 damage (not factoring in the damage scaling) and puts all characters in a juggle state where I can tack on a further 80 damage with an EX Skull Driver for a total of 330 and get 300 stun. Delicious!

Retr0gamer

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

As for the whole flying kick thing, this is an element known as the interception flying kick. The other guys almost waiting for you to jump in and he'll jump up to meet you, pressing the kick button just as he leave the ground, and thus a lot sooner than you'd press yours.

So if I'm getting you right, they jump but will kick late while you jump and kick early hoping to get your kick input in first and get the priority advantage? Must give it a try will help a lot.

Cunny-Funt

Azza wrote: »

Not used often and is quite a mystery to many players.

This, so much this. As I said before, his moves just seem like a homing missile. lol. But obviously theres easy ways of countering them I just don't know.

Azza wrote: »

Oh and Cunny...getting counter hit with an EX Headstomp in the air is not a good thing for Akuma. Considering a counter hit EX Headstomp does 250 damage (not factoring in the damage scaling) and puts all characters in a juggle state where I can tack on a further 80 damage with an EX Skull Driver for a total of 330 and get 300 stun. Delicious!

Hehhee nothings a good thing for auld glass jaw akuma. Its worse though knowing you jumped into it when you knew it was coming, cause you've trained your fingers to try and intercept people in the air

Although I don't really do the whole intercept thing with akuma much.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So if I'm getting you right, they jump but will kick late while you jump and kick early hoping to get your kick input in first and get the priority advantage? Must give it a try will help a lot.

yeah and if you play someone with an air grab this is generally how you land them. I tend to go for an interception over a dragon punch, but this once again is mainly cause I do it on reaction.

L31mr0d

found this thread over at SRK:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=184391

Will help a lot knowing how to change my game depending on who I'm up against.

Biggest tip for me was the advice against Vega. I've got to get out of the habit of jump ins and fireballs against him.