Spirit of Ireland - A bright spark in today's economic gloom?

patgill

Ugool

Ask and you shall receive, conference arranged

Sponge Bob

eh , what conference ??

patgill

Sponge Bob wrote: »

eh , what conference ??

If I told you I would have to bore you to death

gpjordanf1

Well between Stoern's announcement today and the eventual Spirit of Ireland announcement, Ireland will be the Energy giants of the world.

A truly historical time!

patgill

gpjordanf1

Can we use the same laws of thermodynamics as steorn please.

It would make the job a lot easier

patgill

Happy Christmas everyone from all at Spirit of Ireland

Pat

Watanabe

tech2 wrote: »

From having an electronics background, I believe renewable energy is the way forward.

-As far as Im aware only one institute of technology in Ireland has created a renewable energy course.

What Institute is that?

Tech3

Watanabe wrote: »

What Institute is that?

Limerick Institute of Technology granted that has changed now with more IT's focusing on Renewable energy courses.

patgill

And this very important area of education is one of the areas we will be focussing on in 2010.
I had a discussion just before Christmas, with one of the people who was heavily involved in creating the educational framework which underpinned Irelands emergence as a major player in the electronics and pharma sectors in the 80's and 90's and we sketched out a rough plan, which will be refined and kickstarted over the next few weeks.

pljudge321

tech2 wrote: »

Limerick Institute of Technology granted that has changed now with more IT's focusing on Renewable energy courses.

Any electrical or mechanical engineering degree will more than qualify you to work in the newly emerging renewable energy market. Both UCD and DIT (probably a few more as well) have taught Masters specializing in Energy Systems either of which combined with an engineering undergraduate degree would leave you in a much better position than a course specialising in just renewable energy systems.

I've been given the advice by a good few older engineers to make sure to do what could be considered a core engineering degree, i.e civil, mech, chem rather than doing a specialised course for you undergrad.

I understand the reasoning behind it, its better to get a solid grounding instead of learning about tech that might be obsolete in ten years.

patgill

pljudge321 wrote: »

Any electrical or mechanical engineering degree will more than qualify you to work in the newly emerging renewable energy market. Both UCD and DIT (probably a few more as well) have taught Masters specializing in Energy Systems either of which combined with an engineering undergraduate degree would leave you in a much better position than a course specialising in just renewable energy systems.

I've been given the advice by a good few older engineers to make sure to do what could be considered a core engineering degree, i.e civil, mech, chem rather than doing a specialised course for you undergrad.

I understand the reasoning behind it, its better to get a solid grounding instead of learning about tech that might be obsolete in ten years.

Make sure that you get a grounding in environmental matters also

pljudge321

patgill wrote: »

Make sure that you get a grounding in environmental matters also

This is something thats actually missing from most mech and elec courses, strange considering how important environmental regulations are in this country to the running of a power plant, they might be covered briefly in a later module in my course but there is no specific module for me.

patgill

pljudge321 wrote: »

This is something thats actually missing from most mech and elec courses, strange considering how important environmental regulations are in this country to the running of a power plant, they might be covered briefly in a later module in my course but there is no specific module for me.

Not alone is this important for the reasons you outline, it is also important for the formulation of those regulations in the first place.

We need engineers who know how to build sustainably.

This word sustainable, is going to be increasingly important for the foreseeable future.

From the Collins dictionary

1 capable of being sustained


2 (of economic development, energy sources, etc.) capable of being maintained at a steady level without exhausting natural resources or causing severe ecological damage
sustainable development

3 (of economic growth) non-inflationary



Trust me, almost all multinational corporations now have sustainability as a must have in their vision of how to survive into the future.

Ugool

It is only with the support, cooperation and active participation of communities that we will see real changes in the way we use and source energy. Individuals take their cues from the actions of others around them and, through organised collective action, people can achieve far more than they can acting in isolation.

http://www.cse.org.uk

patgill

Congratulations to 18 year old Blarney student, Richard O Shea on winning the Young Scientist of the Year competition, his project will do more good in the world than all of the bluster coming from both sides of the climate change debate.

His product, a simple biomass stove, will have more effect on CO2 levels and raising the standard of living in the developed world than anything the IPCC or their opponents will ever do.

http://www.examiner.ie/business/blarney-student-is-young-scientist-of-year-109872.html

He joins a long list of people who quitely pursue real change in the world and I wish him well in his career, we need more people with vision and drive like him.

Dan Jaman

Bears a tremendous resemblance to a Rocket Stove.

dowlingm

As a former YSE exhibitor (twice) congrats to him. That said, I'd love to read his project report and compare it to a lengthy article in the New Yorker on this very subject which I read over this last New Years. It turns out stoves are surprisingly tricky beasts to make - especially when you are trying to do so for virtually no money and require only minimal technical skills on the user side. The bit I never thought of was just how just smoky houses which depend on open fires for heat and cooking are - made me think about my grandmother's house which only got radiators in the early 80s I think. No PMx readings, no CO monitors!

Darac

Does anyone know what has happened to this crowd. Their own forum has been shutdown so there's no obvious source of information

patgill

Darac

This crowd are still here working hard.

How can I help you
Pat

weepee

Not trying to undermine this great project, but I thought the guys would be interested in this episode of 60 minutes from CBS.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228923n&tag=contentBody;housing

Dan Jaman

Big drawback - it burns fuel. Pity it can't run on hype and bullsh(t.

Poster King

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0301/1224265371780.html
nothing new here really except that the project seems to be still pushing ahead.

BluntGuy

patgill - what stage is the project at now?

Sponge Bob

They were in the Oireachtas today but there was nothing new apart from them admitting that the wind and hydro would be bunched very tightly together rather than have wind generators miles away from the pumps....and at the mercy of eirgrid transit and gate BS was my reading of that bunching

Climate Change and Energy Security

CR1, LH 2000
2.30 p.m. (T)(M)

Energy Policy I]Spirit of Ireland; The Irish Academy of Engineering; and Energy Needs Ireland[/I

Transcript here some time

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/CommitteeMenu.aspx?Dail=30&Cid=CL

Sulmac

Article in today's Sunday Times about the project:

From The Sunday Times

March 7, 2010

State’s chief scientist backs eco plan to flood valleys

Eithne Shortall

Spirit of Ireland, the group behind a plan to flood valleys along the western seaboard in an attempt to make the country energy-independent, has received the backing of the state’s chief scientific adviser, despite concerns from some environmentalists.

Patrick Cunningham, a state appointee, has written to Brian Cowen, the Taoiseach, Tánaiste Mary Coughlan, and Eamon Ryan, the energy minister, describing the wind and hydro-energy project as worthy of their “urgent attention”.

Writing in April 2009, Cunningham said the proposal could achieve “a transformation in our economic future”.

“This is an important opportunity to solve some of the country’s strategic energy requirements, to enable Ireland to meet its obligations under the Kyoto protocol, and to underpin the international competitiveness of our economy for decades into the future,” he said.

Other documents released under Freedom of Information show that the project team, which includes Igor Shvets, an applied physics professor at Trinity College Dublin, and Graham O’Donnell, an electrical engineer, informed the government that it has acquired the services of John Rogers, a former attorney-general, to prepare “draft-enabling legislation for government consideration”.

Last week Spirit of Ireland appeared before an Oireachtas committee to discuss its plans, and it will meet Ryan tomorrow. Some environmentalists are concerned about the extent and viability of the proposals. They have expressed fears that the organisation’s reference to “draft-enabling legislation” indicates they may attempt to bypass planning laws in a bid to speed up the project.

Tony Lowes, director of Friends of the Irish Environment, said Cunningham’s letter of support was lacking in “serious analysis or consideration of potential adverse environmental impacts”.

He said the project “appears at first glance to have some credibility” but it was “a fairy story”. Lowes warned that if normal planning procedures were bypassed, people would not have a chance to object to the flooding of up to 80km2 of land and the erection of thousands of wind turbines and national-grid pylons.

Spirit of Ireland refused to comment last week. Its plan involves combining large-scale wind farms with huge hydro-power storage reservoirs, which, it claims, can meet Ireland’s energy needs and even produce enough to sell abroad.

The project requires the flooding of at least two, but up to five, coastal valleys from Donegal to Kerry, and the building of dams as hydro back-up to wind power. When wind speeds are too low, water pumped into the reservoirs is released through turbines. The group is understood to be concerned that the protection of private property could delay the project, which would have to be connected to the national grid.

An Taisce, the national trust, said it should be “pushed through for the good of the nation”. Seán Barrett, a Fine Gael TD and head of the Oireachtas committee on climate change, said the idea was “very worthwhile” and that there was a need to look at a new approach to planning permission to speed it up.

The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, which has met with the group twice in the past year, said the plan was “conceptually very interesting” and that it has “an open door to the promoters in terms of discussing the project”.

John Gibbons, the founder of climatechange.ie, said the government should consider compulsory legislation to speed up the plan. He said finding a long-term energy source was a national emergency and that the Spirit of Ireland project could take decades to realise.

“If you flood a valley with water, you’re going to change the landscape. But you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs,” he said.

“If you’re happy to sit in the dark, object away.”

Sponge Bob

Sulmac wrote: »

Article in today's Sunday Times about the project:

Tony Lowes mentioned there is a VERY close associate of our mate Peter Sweetman.

http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2007/07/fighting-for-future.html

In 1997, along with other environmental campaigners (including David Healy, Peter Sweetman, Sarah Dillon and Roger Garland), he founded Friends of the Irish Environment with the specific aim to use EU law to campaign on environmental issues in this country. "Previous to that, no one referred cases to the European Court of Justice for advice," he explains.

Dan Jaman

Yeah, protect the speckled hen while we sit in the dark and freeze.

BluntGuy

Article about Renewable Energy in The Irish Times on the 4th:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0304/breaking46.html

Ireland met its targets for generating 15 per cent of electricity from renewable sources by 2010 in January, a conference in Dublin was told this morning.

Addressing the National Summit on Renewable Energy at Croke Park, Minister for Energy Eamon Ryan also revealed that Ireland is on schedule to overshoot its aim of achieving 40 per cent of the State's electricity needs from renewables by 2020.

Mr Ryan said he believed there are no longer any differences between political parties and industry on what needs to be done and the only issue left was the speed of the development of renewable energy.

The Minister also revealed his department was in talks with authorities in Britain on "about three" new electricity interconnectors across the Irish Sea.

He said a new study has got underway in recent days, in conjunction with authorities in Scotland, on the setting up of an undersea grid connection along the Irish Sea bed. This grid would connect wind energy installations in Wales, England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Ireland.

The undersea connection would ultimately become part of a larger grid proposed by 10 states in northwestern Europe, which in turn is designed to link into a pan European grid which includes solar energy contributed by Mediterranean countries and Portugal.

Mr Ryan also said new measures would be introduced to coordinate various different incentives available for energy efficiency, such as grants for home and commercial building energy efficiency, with new "obligations" on industry to design and provide for more efficiency.

EirGrid chief executive Dermot Byrne said there were currently 1,260 megawatts of wind energy connected to the Irish grid. In addition, there are 1,300 megawatts under construction and a further 3,990 megawatts would be sanctioned under the next round of allocations.

This would give more than the required 40 per cent by 2020. Even allowing for the possibility that not all of the projects would be built, Mr Byrne said the likelihood was that Ireland's 40 per cent target would be achieved by 2017 or 2018.

He said the development of improvements to the grid, known as "Grid 25" was vital to the success of the plan and he asked conference attendees to support EirGrid's plans for an overhead 400kv North South interconnector on the island. Public consultation on this proposal ends on March 12th.

Mr Byrne said this was a vital piece of infrastructure and would be the largest project to come before An Bord Pleanala's strategic infrastructure arm.

Mr Byrne also announced that a €110 million grant for the East West Interconnector between Ireland and Britain was formally signed off by the European Commission yesterday.

The grant was made under a “stimulus package” approved by the commission last July, which was first announced by Mr Byrne last September

It is in addition to “soft loans” from the European Investment Bank which will see up to €300 million invested in the interconnector. A further allocation of up to €200 million has been approved by the bank for development of the ESB’s renewable energy businesses, principally wind farms.

Donal Murphy director of Global Project Finance with Bank of Ireland said there was a danger of a "dropping off" of applications for loans from developers of renewable energy. He said this was because of a perception that no loans were available, but he maintained that perception was mistaken.

Mr Murphy told the conference the bank had a fund of €800 million fior renewable energy and this was "certainly not a sector that was being ignored".

Sponge Bob

A rather interesting presentation on why storage is important in itself

The vid below is the CEO of Velkess who propose to use flywheels not reservoirs. ..nobody has actually seen one. Looks like he has a pack of bitch VC types in front of him too

It is worth watching for the guys explanation of why expensive and slow coal took over from cheaper and faster and 'green' wind in the 1800's all the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsSDXCH6Bqc

Amtmann

Question:

As I understand it, Spirit of Ireland involves building at least two enormous dams across the mouths of valleys, with the back and sides of the valley forming three natural walls. How will the dam be secured? Don't mountains erode? Isn't it possible that the areas where the dam is fastened into the natural valley walls will also erode? And will erosion not lead to dam failure?

I'm just wondering what the life expectancy of these dams would be, and what steps would be taken, from an engineering point of view, to secure and strengthen the valleys themselves to limit the possibility of natural crumbling.