The worst thing about this recession

Fighting Irish

Is all the jealousy it has brought out in people towards other people who have money.
Its not their fault they were sensible with their money and job choice.

Also its not the banks fault that you have a €400K mortgage that you're finding hard to pay back

mike65

Doing well eh?

Loopy

Another Recession thread:eek:

Saibh

Stephen will be disappointed to see another recession thread...

Dudess

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Is all the jealousy it has brought out in people towards other people who have money.
Its not their fault they were sensible with their money and job choice.

... trumped only by the sneering at people who have lost everything and the assumption it's because they weren't sensible, when it could happen to anyone.
Job choice? By your logic, anyone who didn't go for a public sector position wasn't being sensible...

RossFixxxed

Hey you let's fight post about the recession!




Them's fightin recession talk!


And now we have 1000000 threads on this. You know what sucks? You do. And me for posting and this elevating this.

I'm cold and hungry and bored.

RandolphEsq

The worst thing about the recession is that it was allowed to happen. Bogger developers with their bogger associates who were not educated and used to money were allowed to run the place. Simple people who should never have been afforded entire 'Boom Pies' when a slice was good enough for them. When will you people learn that democracy just doesn't work

AnonoBoy

Dear OP,

What recession?

Yours in denial,

AnonoBoy

Fighting Irish

mike65 wrote: »

Doing well eh?

No just not doing **** and bitching about it like its not my fault

Fighting Irish

Dudess wrote: »

... trumped only by the sneering at people who have lost everything and the assumption it's because they weren't sensible, when it could happen to anyone.
Job choice? By your logic, anyone who didn't go for a public sector position wasn't being sensible...

I wasn't saying it like that, i'm not in public sector but everyone seems to be against public workers like its their fault

Dudess

Fighting Irish wrote: »

No just not doing **** and bitching about it like its not my fault

How would it be someone's fault if they weren't taking the piss during the boom years but are still ****ed now because they've been laid off?

flanzer

Cry me a river

Mr.Lizard

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Also its not the banks fault that you have a €400K mortgage that you're finding hard to pay back

Eh yes it is. I'd compare what the banks do to an adult giving a child poison and telling them it's sweets. When the child gets sick it's somehow suddenly the childs fault for liking sweets?

Most adults really don't have a clue when it comes to basic economics and furthermore it's not their fault either. Western society doesn't educate people on the financial matters that apply to their life deliberately so they'll just fall into the trap like everyone else and then spend the rest of their lives working like a virtual slave to get out of it. There should be mandatory classes in school to teach people how to manage money .... but of course that'd never happen because government and the banks would rather keep us in the dark from day one.

Fighting Irish

Dudess wrote: »

How would it be someone's fault if they weren't taking the piss during the boom years but are still ****ed now because they've been laid off?

Save money and cut the sh1t once the sh1t hits the fan

Mr.Lizard

(Financially secure here btw)

Fighting Irish

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Eh yes it is. I'd compare what the banks do to an adult giving a child poison and telling them it's sweets. When the child gets sick it's somehow suddenly the childs fault for liking sweets?

Most adults really don't have a clue when it comes to basic economics and furthermore it's not their fault either. Western society doesn't educate people on the financial matters that apply to their life deliberately so they'll just fall into the trap like everyone else and then spend the rest of their lives working like a virtual slave to get out of it. There should be mandatory classes in school to teach people how to manage money .... but of course that'd never happen because government and the banks would rather keep us in the dark from day one.

If you can't firgure out,
"Don't spend more than you have and save a little for a rainy day"
Then theres no hope for you

Fighting Irish

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

(Financially secure here btw)

Have ya got a euro for the bus?
I lost me job and have no money, its the governments fault, no wait its the banks fault

CreepingDeath

The worst thing about this recession is it didn't come sooner.

Could've avoided a few hundred thousand immigrants coming in and increasing the current problem.

Mr.Lizard

Fighting Irish wrote: »

If you can't firgure out,
"Don't spend more than you have and save a little for a rainy day"
Then theres no hope for you

You say that but I can understand that for a person who entered the workforce at the begining of the goodtimes that they might presume it'd always be that way.

el_tiddlero

money is an imaginary concept. it makes little difference to the state of your soul if you are rich as can be, or balls-deep in debt.
Realise the actuality of your inner power, see the world as it really is. Don't believe these false imaginings that the fools want you to gobble up like turkeys in time for christmas mass.
Fight the dream power of the oppressors. They have no gums.

also, anyone got a lend of a fiver?

Fighting Irish

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

You say that but I can understand that for a person who entered the workforce at the begining of the goodtimes that they might presume it'd always be that way.

So its their fault for presuming

Dudess

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Save money and cut the sh1t once the sh1t hits the fan

So if a father of three children (all under working age) earning a moderate wage which is the household's only income, with a modest mortgage and little or no debts and even some savings is laid off... he has no reason to complain or worry when the jobs market is as bad as it is? Sure...

ewj1978

was poor before it, during it , and after it. meh! Screw ye if ye can't afford your 2 holidays a year and another 42" LCD.

bladespin

Dudess wrote: »

So if a father of three children (all under working age) earning a moderate wage which is the household's only income, with a modest mortgage and little or no debts and even some savings is laid off... he has no reason to complain or worry when the jobs market is bad as it is? Sure...

Looking at some recent posts (38k on the dole) they might actually be better off.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055543315&highlight=38k

Worst thing about the recession seems to be the amount of people talking it up instead of doing something about it.

Dudess

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Have ya got a euro for the bus?
I lost me job and have no money, its the governments fault, no wait its the banks fault

Well actually, a good deal of it is for those who weren't fools with money during the good times. Are you saying if that was the case for you (I'm fairly confident it isn't and you're in permanent employment) you'd still say "Ah I must not complain. Even though it's not my fault, it... is"?

Dudess

ewj1978 wrote: »

was poor before it, during it , and after it. meh! Screw ye if ye can't afford your 2 holidays a year and another 42" LCD.

Oh yes, because of course, if a person loses their job, their main concern is not being able to afford two holidays a year and another 42" LCD.

Fighting Irish

Dudess wrote: »

So if a father of three children (all under working age) earning a moderate wage which is the household's only income, with a modest mortgage and little or no debts and even some savings is laid off... he has no reason to complain or worry when the jobs market is as bad as it is? Sure...

Well maybe he does a little, but he has no right to be all cun.ty to people who still have jobs or money

ewj1978

Dudess wrote: »

Oh yes, because of course, if a person loses their job, their main concern is not being able to afford two holidays a year and another 42" LCD.

no. they'd be worried about paying for their overpriced house's massive mortgage.

some public sector nub actually came out with not being able to afford his summer holiday abroad...poor him

Fighting Irish

Dudess wrote: »

Well actually, a good deal of it is for those who weren't fools with money during the good times. Are you saying if that was the case for you (I'm fairly confident it isn't and you're in permanent employment) you'd still say "Ah I must not complain. Even though it's not my fault, it... is"?

I'm not in permanent employment, and i don't get what you're trying to say

Dudess

What I mean is: would you not be pissed off and upset if you lost your job?

ewj1978 wrote: »

no. they'd be worried about paying for their overpriced house's massive mortgage.

Or... maybe they wouldn't? Why this assumption that everyone who loses their job and is freaked about it is someone who was a muppet with money during the boom?

Fighting Irish

Dudess wrote: »

Oh yes, because of course, if a person loses their job, their main concern is not being able to afford two holidays a year and another 42" LCD.

I agree but what about the last ten years when they did blow money on that sorta sh1t, i betcha that money would come in handy now if they had saved it

segaBOY

BrightEyes wrote: »

The worst thing about the recession is that it was allowed to happen. Bogger developers with their bogger associates who were not educated and used to money were allowed to run the place. Simple people who should never have been afforded entire 'Boom Pies' when a slice was good enough for them. When will you people learn that democracy just doesn't work

Or those educated Dublin ****ers who were in the Central Bank.....

Dudess

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I agree but what about the last ten years when they did blow money on that sorta sh1t, i betcha that money would come in handy now if they had saved it

What if they didn't waste their money on flash sh1t? The point I'm making is: not just eejits are ****ed in this climate. People from all sorts of circumstances are, including sensible ones.

Fighting Irish

Dudess wrote: »

What if they didn't waste their money on flash sh1t? The point I'm making is: not just eejits are ****ed in this climate. People from all sorts of circumstances are, including sensible ones.

I understand that, but the majority of people went overboard.

Dudess

A sizable number yes, but I don't know about the majority. Didn't look like it to me.

segaBOY

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I understand that, but the majority of people went overboard.

To be fair for a lot of young couples the average price of a house was €350,000 or more, both had to work to cover the Mortgage and if you had a child the childcare costs cost €10k+ pa alone.

I think your statement of "the majority of people went overboard" is wrong. People were fooled or tricked into buying at the height of it all-all they had to do was open up an economics book (A few years ago I remember looking at a book published in 1996 and coming to my own conclusions) but they were fed the line that prices were going to keep rising-not fully their fault.

I agree that more than enough people went overboard, I remember seeing on George Lee's "How we blew the boom" some salesman at Land of Leather was boasting how he's earn €1k after tax and that was on a slow week-then went on to say he spent 2 months with his son in Spain and now was struggling to make ends meet. (he switchd jobs to a taxi driver and was complaining about the hours...)

I have no pity for this case considering that guy would have grew up in the 80s-a bit stupid to be so reckless with his money.

Disease Ridden

Fighting Irish is saying what you's all know but dont want to admit to yourselves!

In my own experience, I know one chap in his late 20's now, never got any sort of loan out during the times of easy credit to buy flashy sh'it to keep up with the joneses. If he wanted something like a nice telly he'd simply save up in cash on the side and go in and buy something that was a good deal.

Nor was he sucked into buying an extremely, EXTREMELY overpriced average home like so many of his mates were. He knew that a pile of bricks and bulding materials built into a house wasnt worth such an amount that it would take the rest of his life to pay back. Even now, he is of the opinion that those houses are greatly overpriced.

He rented out instead as he wasn't so weak willed that he felt the need to jump onto the property ladder like the rest of his age-group. Now that the bubble has burst and everybody is returning to their proper and deserved place in society (not the undeserved, artificial position of wealth based on credit) they all come to him for a bailout or lend of money.
He's in a quite secure job (not public sector) and on a good wage afaik.

I sympathize with anybody who lived modestly during the boom years and now finds themselves in difficulty after having lost their job, but to be honest, I think those people are few and far between.

Fighting Irish

segaBOY wrote: »

To be fair for a lot of young couples the average price of a house was €350,000 or more, both had to work to cover the Mortgage and if you had a child the childcare costs cost €10k+ pa alone.

I think your statement of "the majority of people went overboard" is wrong. People were fooled or tricked into buying at the height of it all-all they had to do was open up an economics book (A few years ago I remember looking at a book published in 1996 and coming to my own conclusions) but they were fed the line that prices were going to keep rising-not fully their fault.

I agree that more than enough people went overboard, I remember seeing on George Lee's "How we blew the boom" some salesman at Land of Leather was boasting how he's earn €1k after tax and that was on a slow week-then went on to say he spent 2 months with his son in Spain and now was struggling to make ends meet. (he switchd jobs to a taxi driver and was complaining about the hours...)

I have no pity for this case considering that guy would have grew up in the 80s-a bit stupid to be so reckless with his money.

I have no pity for people who were fooled into buying something

segaBOY

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I have no pity for people who were fooled into buying something

That's fine, pity's not going to solve anything anyway.

Agree with you OP but I think tarring the "majority" of people with the same brush is incorrect.

I for one was a student for the last few years, never went on holiday or had lavish bashes-worked every summer etc. Did what had to be done, I am not part of this majority you speak of and neither are most if not all of my college friends.

Fighting Irish

segaBOY wrote: »

That's fine, pity's not going to solve anything anyway.

Agree with you OP but I think tarring the "majority" of people with the same brush is incorrect.

I for one was a student for the last few years, never went on holiday or had lavish bashes-worked every summer etc. Did what had to be done, I am not part of this majority you speak of and neither are most if not all of my college friends.

I just hate jealousy, and the people who are blaming everyone but themselves

Abi

It is pretty simple. Don't make any large purchases at the height of an economic boom. I didn't, therefore the economic down turn has had little effect on me personally. The cost of living is dropping nicely. Must be nearly time to buy a new car..

Maybe the government could do something constructive for once, and issue a citizens guide book to survival.


Chapter one: RECESSIONS HAPPEN.
Careful now.

Disease Ridden

segaBOY wrote: »

I have no pity for this case considering that guy would have grew up in the 80s-a bit stupid to be so reckless with his money.

This is why I find it very hard to sympathize with the people in this country who went overboard during the boom years; before, say, the mid 90's, they had only ever known a life of having little and should therefore have known the value of money.

That guy who was on George Lee's documetary really should have known better. Nobody working as a salesman should have been able to enjoy the kind of lefestyle that he did, its just not realisitc. He came across as completely deserving of what happened to him.

segaBOY

Disease Ridden wrote: »

Fighting Irish is saying what you's all know but dont want to admit to yourselves!

In my own experience, I know one chap in his late 20's now, never got any sort of loan out during the times of easy credit to buy flashy sh'it to keep up with the joneses. If he wanted something like a nice telly he'd simply save up in cash on the side and go in and buy something that was a good deal.

Nor was he sucked into buying an extremely, EXTREMELY overpriced average home like so many of his mates were. He knew that a pile of bricks and bulding materials built into a house wasnt worth such an amount that it would take the rest of his life to pay back. Even now, he is of the opinion that those houses are greatly overpriced.

He rented out instead as he wasn't so weak willed that he felt the need to jump onto the property ladder like the rest of his age-group. Now that the bubble has burst and everybody is returning to their proper and deserved place in society (not the undeserved, artificial position of wealth based on credit) they all come to him for a bailout or lend of money.
He's in a quite secure job (not public sector) and on a good wage afaik.

I sympathize with anybody who lived modestly during the boom years and now finds themselves in difficulty after having lost their job, but to be honest, I think those people are few and far between.

Fair play to him,he had a bit of sense. I know someone who's brother had bought 2, yes 2 houses in Dublin (only in his mid to late 20s), her sister also bought a house in a housing estate out the country but still lived at home when she was in her early 20s. (This all happened from 2005-2008) and furthermore the girl I know then decided to go looking for a house in 2008. I told her to wait, she wouldn't listen.

There all public service btw.

It's the newly wed couple who felt pressurised into getting a house is who I feel sorry for-gonna get flamed for this but we all know how women can nag without logic sometimes.........

Dudess

Disease Ridden wrote: »

Fighting Irish is saying what you's all know but dont want to admit to yourselves!

Eh... no he isn't. He seemed to be saying initially that he had no sympathy for anyone who was in dire financial straits now, then when he was actually made think about this statement, he back-tracked a bit.
Now he's saying those who were idiots with money during the boom and in trouble now don't deserve much sympathy - fair enough, I for one have no problem with admitting that "to myself".

In my own experience, I know one chap in his late 20's now, never got any sort of loan out during the times of easy credit to buy flashy sh'it to keep up with the joneses. If he wanted something like a nice telly he'd simply save up in cash on the side and go in and buy something that was a good deal.

Nor was he sucked into buying an extremely, EXTREMELY overpriced average home like so many of his mates were. He knew that a pile of bricks and bulding materials built into a house wasnt worth such an amount that it would take the rest of his life to pay back. Even now, he is of the opinion that those houses are greatly overpriced.

He rented out instead as he wasn't so weak willed that he felt the need to jump onto the property ladder like the rest of his age-group. Now that the bubble has burst and everybody is returning to their proper and deserved place in society (not the undeserved, artificial position of wealth based on credit) they all come to him for a bailout or lend of money.
He's in a quite secure job (not public sector) and on a good wage afaik.

I sympathize with anybody who lived modestly during the boom years and now finds themselves in difficulty after having lost their job, but to be honest, I think those people are few and far between.

LOL - so you know a person who wasn't a flashy eejit with money, therefore the sensible people who lost their jobs are "few and far between"?

It's as if the majority of people who lost their jobs are personally responsible for it and were irresponsible with cash. Priceless.

Fighting Irish

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Is all the jealousy it has brought out in people towards other people who have money.
Its not their fault they were sensible with their money and job choice.

Also its not the banks fault that you have a €400K mortgage that you're finding hard to pay back

No, the worst thing about the recession is constantly being reminded if it.

T.G Catter

Well for me it has been mainly,
Seeing young well-educated people signing on for the dole, who worked hard in school and college and as apprentices and paid their taxes etc.
Seeing the hard-working self-employed not being able to get a penny back from the government when they are now out of work.
Seeing my friends upset and on protective notice and having to return to living with their parents and giving up their LIFE.

Seeing the lowest common denominators being rewarded for never working.
Having to deal with the most stupid people in the universe in fas offices and social welfare offices has been shocking!
Not being able to get the dole and waiting for some means tested job seekers allowance bo""ocks, where I'll probably get 30 euro a week.
Facing up to the reality that I will have to leave Ireland - my home and go start a life somewhere else.

It's all very sad, and that's the worst thing about this recession.

Dudess

T.G Catter wrote: »

Well for me it has been mainly,
Seeing young well-educated people signing on for the dole, who worked hard in school and college and as apprentices and paid their taxes etc.
Seeing the hard-working self-employed not being able to get a penny back from the government when they are now out of work.
Seeing my friends upset and on protective notice and having to return to living with their parents and giving up their LIFE.

Not being able to get the dole and waiting for some means tested job seekers allowance bo""ocks, where I'll probably get 30 euro a week.
Facing up to the reality that I will have to leave Ireland - my home and go start a life somewhere else.

Oh no T.G., it's all your/their fault!

It's all very sad, and that's the worst thing about this recession.

Indeed. Seriously, if a person thinks resentment towards those who still have work is "the worst thing about the recession" they don't have much to worry about...

raunch

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Is all the jealousy it has brought out in people towards other people who have money.
Its not their fault they were sensible with their money and job choice.

Also its not the banks fault that you have a €400K mortgage that you're finding hard to pay back

I would have thought that the worst thing about the recession is the uncertainty that a lot of people feel.

SheroN

The worst thing is people living in a constant state of fear and uncertainty. I've noticed people who I would have thought to be the most carefree people around become nervous wrecks over the past year.

Disease Ridden

Dudess wrote: »

LOL - so you know a person who wasn't a flashy eejit with money, therefore the sensible people who lost their jobs are "few and far between"?

It's as if the majority of people who lost their jobs are personally responsible for it and were irresponsible with cash. Priceless.

Think about people who worked in construction and were earning 1,000 euros a week no bother to them. People working in construction, especially those who were involved in it 15 or 20 years ago, should have known that those kind of wages wouldnt last forever; construction workers were never as well paid as those working during the years approx 2001-2007. The people who lived in this country before the boom have only ever known hard times and should have built up a mentality that if they wanted something they should save for it and live within their means. Everybody thought they were entitled to be rich.

I must admit that I often have the big fat breakfast-roll eating, rip-off charging , land-rover driving, mansion dwelling bastards of the Celtic Tiger construction industry in mind when I'm thinking about these things so apolgies if my posts look angry!

Dudess

Grand, a significant number of people were tools with their money - nobody is disputing that. But why all these generalisations about "the majority", "the sensible people being few and far between" etc?