Can my husband baptise our baby without my consent?

VeryBerry

Sorry if this the wrong forum, not sure where the most appropriate place is. Due a baby in a few weeks, and I'm just wondering if anyone knows if my husband can still have our baby baptised if I don't consent to it?

I am adamant I don't want to baptise the baby (was always very clear and open about this from the day we met), but he and his family do. I might be a bit more understanding if they were very religious and intended to bring the baby up as a Catholic. But they don't, i.e. no intention of bringing it to mass every Sunday, or teaching it about Catholicism etc. My husbands argument is that the the baby should be baptised "just in case".

Its really causing problems between us and his family. His mother has told him to that they'll just take the baby when its born and have it baptised without telling me. Can they actually do this??

Thanks

Doctor DooM

VeryBerry wrote: »

Sorry if this the wrong forum, not sure where the most appropriate place is. Due a baby in a few weeks, and I'm just wondering if anyone knows if my husband can still have our baby baptised if I don't consent to it?

I am adamant I don't want to baptise the baby (was always very clear and open about this from the day we met), but he and his family do. I might be a bit more understanding if they were very religious and intended to bring the baby up as a Catholic. But they don't, i.e. no intention of bringing it to mass every Sunday, or teaching it about Catholicism etc. My husbands argument is that the the baby should be baptised "just in case".

Its really causing problems between us and his family. His mother has told him to that they'll just take the baby when its born and have it baptised without telling me. Can they actually do this??

Thanks

Isn't that threatening kidnapping?

coffee_cake

Aye, sounds like a threat of kidnapping. There are probs steps you can take based on that. Tell the guards?
Wonder if it would be worth your while ringing local parish and letting them know your baby is not to be baptised under any circumstance ?

Wishbone Ash

I'm open to correction but isn't it possible for any christian to baptise another rather than go for a formal christening. Your husband could simply get some holy water, make a sign of the cross on the child's forehead and say "I baptise you in the name of the father.......etc." This could easily be done without your knowledge or consent.

Like I said, I'm open to correction.

Doctor DooM

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm open to correction but isn't it possible for any christian to baptise another rather than go for a formal christening. Your husband could simply get some holy water, make a sign of the cross on the child's forehead and say "I baptise you in the name of the father.......etc." This could easily be done without your knowledge or consent.

Like I said, I'm open to correction.

I think (and I am no expert) this is only allowed when the person is in danger of dying or there is no priests in the area.

Rev Hellfire

SDooM wrote: »

Isn't that threatening kidnapping?

Its hardly kidnapping if one of the child's guardians supports.

Either way there's nothing to stop the father exercising his right to have the child christened should he wish to.

Ludo

SDooM wrote: »

Isn't that threatening kidnapping?

bluewolf wrote: »

Aye, sounds like a threat of kidnapping. There are probs steps you can take based on that. Tell the guards?

Kidnapping? I dont think so. If I want to take my kids to the cinema or shopping against my wifes wishes there isn't really much you can do about it. It's not like I am putting them in harms way or anything. It certainly is not kidnapping by ANY stretch of the imagination. Reporting this to the gardai would be a complete waste of their time.

crosstownk

I can understand both your concerns and your partners. However, you partners "just in case" standpoint is not valid. The child can be baptised at any age - it doesn't have to be done just yet. Wait and see how you both feel as time passes. It's a decision for you and your partner - extended family can offer advice but it's not their place to make the decision for either of you.

Try and avoid the whole kidnapping aspect that will only escalate things causing further friction.

Hold off for now if you can - get a proper understanding of baptism and what it represents. Bear in mind that if you intend to send the child to a catholic school that you may be asked for the baptisimal certificate.

mayordenis

Look I think your better off trying to sort this without getting all legal about it,
Now it's your child and his, ye have to reach a compromise in reality to make everyone happy,
the major benefit of baptism isn't really religious is education and access,
So on that side of things your going to make your childs life easier even if compromising you own beliefs, you'll also appease the other half of the family.

I'm not saying you should just have to take whatever they say and do it but it's worth considering.

Mr. Presentable

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm open to correction but isn't it possible for any christian to baptise another rather than go for a formal christening. Your husband could simply get some holy water, make a sign of the cross on the child's forehead and say "I baptise you in the name of the father.......etc." This could easily be done without your knowledge or consent.

Like I said, I'm open to correction.

You are correct. It needn't even be holy water.

OP, not much you can do to prevent it, but even if you don't buy into the religion, where's the harm really? It only matters to believers in that sort of thing.

iguana

VeryBerry wrote: »

My husbands argument is that the the baby should be baptised "just in case".

Just in case of what? In case your baby would not go to heaven if it died? You could point out to him that the Catholic church now states that there is no such thing as limbo so unbaptised babies who die automatically go to heaven. The "just in case" argument, for the sake of the babies soul is no longer supported by the beliefs of catholicism.

Toots

My biggest concern about this wouldn't be whether or not the child is baptised, but that your husband and his family are actually considering taking the child and baptising it against your will. TBH, if he does do this, it shows a huge lack of respect for you. You need to sit down with your hubby and work out a solution, ie, maybe baptising the child when he/she is older and would be aware of the significance of the whole thing.

I'm not Catholic myself, and certainly wouldn't be the biggest fan of the church, but the idea of indoctrinating a baby into any religion as an insurance policy or to give them an upper hand in getting a place in a school really doesn't sit well with me, and IMO is pretty disrespectful to that religion.

If your hubby refuses to compromise and plans to go ahead with the baptism, then I'd suggest perhaps having a word with the parish priest about your concerns.

Wishbone Ash

Toots85 wrote: »

it shows a huge lack of respect for you

Presumably it could be argued that not having the child baptised shows a 'huge lack of respect' for her husband's wishes.

bushy...

VeryBerry wrote: »

Sorry if this the wrong forum, not sure where the most appropriate place is. Due a baby in a few weeks, and I'm just wondering if anyone knows if my husband can still have our baby baptised if I don't consent to it?

I am adamant I don't want to baptise the baby (was always very clear and open about this from the day we met), but he and his family do. I might be a bit more understanding if they were very religious and intended to bring the baby up as a Catholic. But they don't, i.e. no intention of bringing it to mass every Sunday, or teaching it about Catholicism etc. My husbands argument is that the the baby should be baptised "just in case".

Its really causing problems between us and his family. His mother has told him to that they'll just take the baby when its born and have it baptised without telling me. Can they actually do this??

Thanks

"They" just shouldn't be causing you unnecessary stress , I would rate threatening to take a baby away from his/her mother and doing something to him/her against your wishes as very serious.
All this is even worse because its his mammy telling him to do this.

axel rose

I hate to tell you that in a nutshell yes your husband can have your child christened without you. My husband insisted, I preferred not to but (as you must with children) I compromised and agreed that he could do it as it meant nothing to me. Lets face it-the hand that rocks the cradle holds the power.

My husband went to the course alone explained that I didnt want to get involved but didnt object, the priest didnt contact me or question my husband.

Now Im in no way suggesting that you relent.....but......try and not get too stuck in a corner so that one parent 'wins'. You are BOTH bringing a child into the world and this will be the beginning of many compromises and discussions to come.

The bigger issue is how you and your husband respect one another and communicate. If either of you demand and insist then neither of you are being respectful or hearing the others POV. Could his family be giving him support as he feels a bit isolated and is looking for it? (just a question)

If it helps....I tried to see the arguement from my husbands point of view.......(to blend in, grandparents happy, he likes the odd wee pray, getting into schools) then I realised I didnt give a crap because I will have more infulence over my child than any crusty old priest .

(Try this one, Im veggie but my husband would eat anything with a face, we discussed it and agreed on agreed meats- fish and the odd bit of chicken).

BTW Im not always this reasonable, Im a grumpy cow at the best of times but when we discuss our child we know that we both want the best for him.

When are you due?

Good luck

Grawns

I agree with the previous poster and agree that there are upsides to being a token catholic. The majority of schools in Ireland require a baptismal cert. My niece was babptized, but has never made her communion or confirmation and in the end attends an educate together school. But had my sister wanted to get her into a good catholic school it would be unlikely.
Every cloud etc...

Still nasty business

Saruman

To be honest, just let him do it. At the end of the day it is just you saying no and him and his whole family saying yes. It is nothing to you if the child is baptised and everything to them. Also as Grawns said, you will get your child into schools since most will take a catholic before a non catholic.

It is not kidnapping, it is his child and im assuming you are not divorced.

Dades

I allowed my daughter get baptised recently, and I mod the Atheism & Agnosticism forum!

Why? Because my wife wanted to as a token catholic and from a social perspective - i.e. a day out. As far as I'm concerned it's just mumbo jumbo. They might as well shake a feathered stick at her for all the difference it makes to her and me.

What grates about your situation is the in-laws getting involved where they have no business. Careful before it becomes an unnecessary bone-of-contention within the family. It's not worth a long-term grudge forming over an antiquated Irish rite.

My suggestion is let them do it. Declare your intention to take no involvement and their interest might wane. The worst that will happen will be an awkward splash and dash for the perpetrators while you get an afternoon to yourself.

The Corinthian

Legally you are both guardians and both have a legal right to determine your child's religious upbringing. Buggered if I know what the legal situation is if you have a disagreement though.

I suppose it comes down to why do don't want your child baptised and why they do. Is is specifically an anti-religion or anti-Catholicism thing on your part? Is it a question of tradition or 'appearances' on theirs? What are their aims, and yours?

A secular 'naming ceremony' may be an acceptable compromise. Or you could agree on the condition that something else is conceded in the future. Or, as I suggested in another thread, you might suggest baptising your child into one of the Protestant faiths as this has the practical advantage of making it easier to get into one of the better schools out there. If nothing else, the expression on their faces when you suggest this will be priceless.

Sleipnir

I'd just do it to save hassle.

I mean, if it means nothing to you, then what difference does it make to you if it's done?
If he said "Me and the lads are going to initiate him into the Jedi religion for a laugh"
would you object so strenuously?

You'll get the same baby back so it won't make any difference to you? You don't even have to attend.

Taltos

Sounds like they all just want a day out / excuse to get flutered.

So let em do it - but head out and enjoy yourself at his expense - that'll teach him the value of compromise..

Just watch out for the communion / confirmation / feather shaking malarky that will inevitably come later.

Or if you want to be a complete BI-atch - go and on the day answer the opposite in a very loud voice to the priest - but only if you want to a) kill someone from a heart attack or b) want to really pee em all off.

seamus

Baptism isn't a legal matter and has no legal recognition. Thus there is very little stop anybody getting anyone else baptised except whether or not the Church will allow it.

Baptising a child doesn't make it Catholic. If he feels that strongly about it, why not let him go ahead. It's just somebody pouring water on the child's head and babbling some incantations. It has absolutely no legal, civil, or moral significance.

lalalulu

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Presumably it could be argued that not having the child baptised shows a 'huge lack of respect' for her husband's wishes.

I don't see how this is a lack of respect for her husband she already stated that he has no intention of bringing the child to mass or taking part in teaching him about being a catholic!! Doesn't make sense really...

Toots

lalalulu wrote: »

I don't see how this is a lack of respect for her husband she already stated that he has no intention of bringing the child to mass or taking part in teaching him about being a catholic!! Doesn't make sense really...

I agree here, if your husband was a devout Catholic and this meant a great deal to him, I could see where he was coming from, but in this case he's just given the vague explanation that he wants to do it 'just in case'. Again, I find it particularly disturbing that he and his family would be prepared to just openly flout your wishes and take the child to be baptised. You and your husband are supposed to be a team, but yet he seems more keen to pander to his family's wishes than to take your wishes into account.

IIMII

VeryBerry wrote: »

Sorry if this the wrong forum, not sure where the most appropriate place is. Due a baby in a few weeks, and I'm just wondering if anyone knows if my husband can still have our baby baptised if I don't consent to it?

I am adamant I don't want to baptise the baby (was always very clear and open about this from the day we met), but he and his family do. I might be a bit more understanding if they were very religious and intended to bring the baby up as a Catholic. But they don't, i.e. no intention of bringing it to mass every Sunday, or teaching it about Catholicism etc. My husbands argument is that the the baby should be baptised "just in case".

Its really causing problems between us and his family. His mother has told him to that they'll just take the baby when its born and have it baptised without telling me. Can they actually do this??

Thanks

Just get it done. Ten minutes, splash of water, off you go, no more row. If child wants to make first communion then or confirmation, no probs or a six year old walking up the aisle (or wherever). All these events are big deals in the lives of kids in Ireland. Still remember what I did with my confirmation money..:)

If you don't want a big hoo ha, just do it with both of you in the hospital with priest on your own. It's done then, no crowd, no big party, no more pressure and the subject has to be dropped .

To be honest, they are probably seeing this as you trying to stop them celebrating the baby's birth - best way out is get it done in the hospital

VeryBerry

Sleipnir wrote: »

I'd just do it to save hassle.

I mean, if it means nothing to you, then what difference does it make to you if it's done?

Well that's the thing - it doesn't mean nothing to me. I feel very, very strongly about not having the baby baptised. Whereas my husband doesn't really. He was well aware of my views long before there was any baby, and he never had a problem with them.

I'm not anti-religion, or anti-ceremony. I've suggested naming ceremonies, or a humanism ceremony, or a cermony in the Unitarian Church, or even baptisim in other faiths. But I don't want a Catholic baptisim.

I'm not trying to disrespect anyones religious beliefs, but I have major issues with the Catholic Church. I've had very negative experiences with the Church in the past, and I don't want my child to have any involvement with them on any level.

I know on a pragmatic and practical level that 'just having a bit of water' splashed on the childs head will make things easier all around. But to me its not 'just a splash of water'. It would be like I've compromised on my whole belief system, and indoctrinated the baby into an organisation, most of who's world views, principals and practices I fundamentally disagree with.

I would feel like I've signed the baby up to the Nazi party, just to keep my mother-in-law happy, and to get it into school. I know its not an appropriate analogy, and its completely irrational, but to me that how it would feel.

Toots

If you feel that strongly about it then don't consent to a baptism, you'll regret it in the long run and will most likely grow to resent your husband and his family for it.

As Corinthian suggested, what about baptising the child into another Christian religion, just not Catholicism? If he's been aware of your views from the outset and has never had a problem with them up until now, it's very unfair for him to move the goalposts this late in the game IMO.

IsThatSo?

VeryBerry wrote: »

Well that's the thing - it doesn't mean nothing to me. I feel very, very strongly about not having the baby baptised. Whereas my husband doesn't really. He was well aware of my views long before there was any baby, and he never had a problem with them.

I'm not anti-religion, or anti-ceremony. I've suggested naming ceremonies, or a humanism ceremony, or a cermony in the Unitarian Church, or even baptisim in other faiths. But I don't want a Catholic baptisim.

I'm not trying to disrespect anyones religious beliefs, but I have major issues with the Catholic Church. I've had very negative experiences with the Church in the past, and I don't want my child to have any involvement with them on any level.

I know on a pragmatic and practical level that 'just having a bit of water' splashed on the childs head will make things easier all around. But to me its not 'just a splash of water'. It would be like I've compromised on my whole belief system, and indoctrinated the baby into an organisation, most of who's world views, principals and practices I fundamentally disagree with.

I would feel like I've signed the baby up to the Nazi party, just to keep my mother-in-law happy, and to get it into school. I know its not an appropriate analogy, and its completely irrational, but to me that how it would feel.

Doesn't matter if its irrational, its how you feel is important, and thats all there is too it.

If he had no problem with your wishes prior to this then it sounds like your in-laws are influencing the situation and he wants a quiet life.

Talk about it, make your feelings very clear and ask that you not be threatened in the manner that you were. Then let him talk about his feelings on the subject, you might be surprised at what he says, you just don't know what goes on in somebodys mind sometimes Then all ye can do is agree or compromise, see if ye can find a middle ground that would respect both of you (and tell the in-laws to mind their own business).

Nevyn

ok My two are not baptised and the crunch came where they were 2 months old.

Personally I would be pissed off that him making an issue of this when you are coming towards the end of your pregnancy and quiet frankly you do not need the stress.
I would suggest telling him to talk about after the child is born.

As for if he can organise and find a priest who will do it, you can after your child is
delivered safe and sound and you have recovered seek out the local parish priest
and find out what the story is and impress up on them/him you do not wish your child to be baptised.

coffee_cake

Apologies I overreacted on the kidnapping part but the extreme disrespect involved for a life partner to threaten to do something to your child against your strictest wishes, and all for no good reason? So his mammy can run his life? It brought serious alarm bells in my head!!
Honestly I would be unbelievably p* off with my OH if they were ever to pull a stunt like that - and less trusting in the future as well. "if you dont like it ill just go do it behind your back , so there"
...

Anyway, echoing everything Toots has said.

Rev Hellfire

bluewolf wrote: »

the extreme disrespect involved for a life partner to threaten to do something to your child against your strictest wishes, and all for no good reason?

First of all it’s not her child it’s their child, secondly we can only assume that they had 'words' already and if the father is not relenting then he feels equally strongly. There’s nothing like been told you can’t do something to make you want to do it all the more.
It sounds like to me they've both got their backs up now and neither side are likely to capitulate without nursing a grunge.