Can my husband baptise our baby without my consent?

metrovelvet

I believe your husband can legally do what he likes,bar leaving the country with your kids without your consent.
I am not sure of the legalities around christenings,but what I have noticed in Ireland around medical and educational consent forms is there is ONE signature required,whereas in other countries such as the US and France, two signatures are required.
A priest is not legally obliged to refuse a christening if one parent objects or isnt there nor is he obliged to proceed just because one parent wants it,but he may do either based on what sits well with him.

In the case of my own son, I simply had to explain the father wasnt involved,and there were no questions asked regarding consent,so my guess is yes he can do it without your permission.

I too thought it was as simple as a splash of water until they talked about obligatory christening classes,and then i backed out quietly.Hubby may do same.

Toots

metrovelvet wrote: »

A priest is not legally obliged to refuse a christening if one parent objects or isnt there nor is he obliged to proceed just because one parent wants it,but he may do either based on what sits well with him.

This is why I think it would be a good idea to talk to your parish priest if you and hubby cannot come to an agreement. I would like to think that the priest will act in the best interests of the child, which would mean not doing something that could cause a rift between the parents - I think it would be better for the child to be unbaptised and their parents still on speaking terms rather than to be baptised but have parents whose relationship was totally acrimonious. Also from an ethical POV I would imagine that a priest would not be comfortable doing something that could potentially put a marriage under major strain. To be totally honest, if my OH did something like this with our child (if we were to have one), I'd be seriously questioning whether or not I could stay in a marriage with someone who could be so underhanded and selfish.

Also, I agree with what Thaedydal said, it's incredibly inconsiderate of him and his family to be putting this amount of pressure on the OP at this late stage in her pregnancy. She should be relaxing and enjoying the run up to the birth rather than stressing over this. If they can't come to a compromise, they should at least agree to leave the discussion until the child is born (and probably a few months old, I'd say they'll have enough adjusting to do with a new baby on the scene without adding to the pressure with this argument.) Oh and most importantly, the husband needs to tell his family to back off and mind their own business.

CDfm

Any christian can baptise a child but to appear on the baptismal register you need to speak to a priest.

Its very unlikely a priest will baptise without consent of both parents.

It just is a welcome ceremony to thr Catholic Community and is essential for first communion etc tro have a baptismal cert..

The real kicker is confirmation.-

My ex was an atheist and the whole baptism thing was hugely awful and acrimonious.Be cautious.

Moonbeam

VeryBerry wrote: »

Sorry if this the wrong forum, not sure where the most appropriate place is. Due a baby in a few weeks, and I'm just wondering if anyone knows if my husband can still have our baby baptised if I don't consent to it?

I am adamant I don't want to baptise the baby (was always very clear and open about this from the day we met), but he and his family do. I might be a bit more understanding if they were very religious and intended to bring the baby up as a Catholic. But they don't, i.e. no intention of bringing it to mass every Sunday, or teaching it about Catholicism etc. My husbands argument is that the the baby should be baptised "just in case".

Its really causing problems between us and his family. His mother has told him to that they'll just take the baby when its born and have it baptised without telling me. Can they actually do this??

Thanks

I was adamant too but gave in as it was important to them,and in the grand scheme of things it does her no good but does not harm her really either.
I do not agree with them threatening to do it against your will,that is bullying and threatening and wrong.
They can not go and get your baby baptised but I think your husband can.

CDfm

Moonbeam wrote: »

They can not go and get your baby baptised but I think your husband can.

But this really is something you and your husband need to work out.

Any christian can baptise a child- so its no big deal- the big deal is why you have not agreed on how you will bring the child up belief wise.

VeryBerry

CDfm wrote: »

But this really is something you and your husband need to work out.



Any christian can baptise a child- so its no big deal- the big deal is why you have not agreed on how you will bring the child up belief wise.

I thought we had agreed. The pregnancy was a big surprise, completely unplanned. But prior to finding out about the baby, anytime the matter came up 'hypothetically' over the past 10 years, my husband was always fine about not baptising any possible children.

The thing is, we do more or less agree about how to bring up the child belief-wise. My hubby still doesn't believe in the teachings of the Church either - we got married in registry office because, for us personally being 'token' Catholics really didn't sit right. He still has no intentention of bringing the child up as a Catholic - he just suddenly seems to want to get it baptised because his Mammy says so!

I know people say it does no harm, but it to me it feels like baptising the baby is already getting it off to a bad start and giving it a bad example. Its like saying to it "Well, Mammy and Daddy are going to sign you up to an organistion who's teachings we really disagree with, just for an easier life all round."

I would feel like a hypocrite. I would feel like I'm meant to be teaching my child right from wrong, and the first example I set it involves compromising my whole belief system for an easier life. It would be like I was saying "Well, we don't believe in the Church, but everybody gets baptised/confirmed etc, so its ok to do what everyone else does, even if you think its wrong". It would be like teaching the baby that when things get a bit hard, its ok to give up on what you think is right.

I always though my husband and I agreed on this. But I think I'll follow the advice from posters who said to leave it all now, and talk about it again a few months after the baby is born. Maybe one, or both of us, will feel different when the baby is here.

CDfm

I was married but am divorced and have two children. The a la carte catholic in the relationship was me -I think your husband probably believes in God. You say your husband was fine with it but you dont seem that certain and it seems that you might have heard what you wanted to.

We had lived together happily before we got married and I do believe in God and attend mass irregularily (maybe twice a month). We got married in a Catholic church because it was important to me.

I dont know how similar your situation is but my ex came from a family with strong atheist views and the arguments around the wedding alone meant it was cancelled once etc. Just scene setting here.

The point is baptism was important to me but for my ex it became a feud between her and my family and it really wore me out. I am not saying it was the only cause of our eventual split(as there were a few issues) but it was probably a defining one where she and my parents had an all out spat and it lasted 3 years.Kids eventually baptised as part of a prefered school enrolment plan by her.

So who is right. I dont know. All I can say is that in my experience the argument on it wore me out. In fact it took a lot of enjoyment out of being an expectant father and new Dad as this was always looming large over the event.

This one could be about baptism alone or it could be a bit more. In my case I was stuck between the views of my parents and my ex and in the end I didnt get on with either.

Roll on the years son is 18 and doing the LC and is an atheist. Daughter 15 and she now attends a baptist church even after being brought up an atheist. My OH is atheist and woke me up to go to mass this morning and has a very relaxed attitude to my beliefs.

I do think you should talk to someone yourself either a marriage councellor or even a priest and get this thing in proportion for yourself. To me it could run and run.

Sorry for being so negative but it certainly wasnt one of the high points of my life.

The whole baptism thing did take a lot of the enjoyment from being a new Dad and I was going "not again". It just loomed there. Bad karma that one.

Even though Im Catholic Im with the ones that say whats your beef if it doesnt harm your baby as you would have a lot more to worry about if you had a sick or handicapped baby and the issue would be insignificant. I would add to this and say this as an issue is causing a relationship problems with hubby.Do you really think it is wise to leave it unresolved to become an issue with his folks after the birth??

bushy...

CDfm wrote: »

I was married and have two children. The a la carte catholic in the relationship was me -I think your husband probably believes in God.

We had lived together happily before we got married and I do believe in God and attend mass irregularily (maybe twice a month). We got married in a Catholic church because it was important to me.

I dont know how similar your situation is but my ex came from a family with strong atheist views and the arguments around the wedding alone meant it was cancelled once etc. Just scene setting here.

The point is baptism was important to me but for my ex it became a feud between her and my family and it really wore me out. I am not saying it was the only cause of our eventual split(as there were a few issues) but it was probably a defining one where she and my parents had an all out spat and it lasted 3 years.Kids eventually baptised as part of a prefered school enrolment plan by her.

So who is right. I dont know. All I can say is that in my experience the argument on it wore me out. In fact it took a lot of enjoyment out of being an expectant father and new Dad as this was always looming large over the event.

This one could be about baptism alone or it could be a bit more. In my case I was stuck between the views of my parents and my ex and in the end I didnt get on with either.

Roll on the years son is 18 and doing the LC and is an atheist. Daughter 15 and she now attends a baptist church even after being brought up an atheist. My OH is atheist and woke me up to go to mass this morning and has a very relaxed attitude to my beliefs.

I do think you should talk to someone yourself either a marriage councellor or even a priest and get this thing in proportion for yourself. To me it could run and run.

Sorry for being so negative but it certainly wasnt one of the high points of my life.

Your post and the OPs make the whole " leaving kids alone and they'll grow into it " type thing look like a very good idea.

Triangle

There seems to be disrespect from both sides 'demanding' their own rights. Relationships are all about compromise and meeting half way.


I know you said it feels like a wrong step giving in on this point, but it's not giving in - if you're athiest then all it is is throwing some water over a babies head. The more important argument, imo, if it ever arises is the school your child would go to. This is where i would insist on an non religious school or one that taught every religion. This way a child would have a more balanced view and could make their own decision on the subject.

Best of wishes on the birth, hopefully you can sort this out together.

pickarooney

Whatever about the meaningless baptismal rite (you could just as easily 'baptise' him as one of the other religions that don't require mutilation before Mummy Dearest gets her claws into him), I'd be seriously concerned about your husband's spinelessness. If he's already letting his mother dictate what way to bring up the child before (s)he's born, that's a dreadful precedent to set.

CDfm

bushy... wrote: »

Your post and the OPs make the whole " leaving kids alone and they'll grow into it " type thing look like a very good idea.

It does rather doesnt it. For many including priests baptism is now a meaningless welcome ceremony -no more no less.

I would be more concerned that a child was vacinated.

Triangle wrote: »

There seems to be disrespect from both sides 'demanding' their own rights. Relationships are all about compromise and meeting half way.


I know you said it feels like a wrong step giving in on this point, but it's not giving in - if you're athiest then all it is is throwing some water over a babies head.

It does seem to be a bit like a spat between in laws and OP. Headwreck central for hubby.

The more important argument, imo, if it ever arises is the school your child would go to. This is where i would insist on an non religious school or one that taught every religion. This way a child would have a more balanced view and could make their own decision on the subject.

Best of wishes on the birth, hopefully you can sort this out together.

THey do not teach religion in schools anymore. Not really.

Exclude your child here and you also opt out of communion etc. Family and ceremonial stuff.

pickarooney wrote: »

Whatever about the meaningless baptismal rite (you could just as easily 'baptise' him as one of the other religions that don't require mutilation before Mummy Dearest gets her claws into him), I'd be seriously concerned about your husband's spinelessness. If he's already letting his mother dictate what way to bring up the child before (s)he's born, that's a dreadful precedent to set.

I wouldnt really worry about the husbands spinelessness. I do think the husband probably has his own beliefs the OP does not acknowledge.

Ive been caught in the middle in this type of mother -wife spat and it is so nasty. It looks like he will be a casualty of friendly fire here.

I wish the OP and family well.

IIMII

VeryBerry wrote: »

Maybe one, or both of us, will feel different when the baby is here.

Unlikely. Have a wee bit of personal experience of this. It'll be remembered in 20 years time.

The whole Christening thing is more often than not seen as being new-born equivalent of an important birthday like an 18th or 21st. In the eyes of your husbands family, you are probably seen as someone who is preventing them having a welcome party for a new baby.

Religion is a factor, but in my experience baptism is about the occaision of welcoming a new child/grandchild/nephew/cousin into the world than welcoming them into a faith. There would be less of a hooly afterwards if it was just about the religion.

Your poor oul husband probably finds himself in the position of having to defend you from being criticised for being a party pooper - chances are that your religious stance is being interpreted as you putting the kibosh on a family day out.

You gotta remember, chances are the same relatives dying for a good Christining probably couldn't care less about whether the child ends up as an atheist, a Catholic or a Muslim. It's all about the day out

metrovelvet

Everyone who is telling Op to just "let him do it" wouldnt dare say that if she were jewish or muslim.

Just wait till he brings home christmas trees and starts talking about santa.pretty hard to fight that indoctrination.better resolve all peacefully if you can.

iguana

Triangle wrote: »

I know you said it feels like a wrong step giving in on this point, but it's not giving in - if you're athiest then all it is is throwing some water over a babies head.

No it isn't. The church use their baptismal figures for political lobbying. If you have your child baptised that is another number the church have to influence the law.

And as far as the schools issue is concerned, if 10 years ago everyone who baptised their child in order to get them into a school had not done that, the state would have had to have done something about the schools situation. As long as people baptise their child for an "easy life" nothing will ever change.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

.

IIMII

metrovelvet wrote: »

Everyone who is telling Op to just "let him do it" wouldnt dare say that if she were jewish or muslim.

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest - still a family occaision

metrovelvet wrote: »

Just wait till he brings home christmas trees and starts talking about santa.

coffee_cake

IIMII wrote: »

Your poor oul husband probably finds himself in the position of having to defend you from being criticised for being a party pooper - chances are that your religious stance is being interpreted as you putting the kibosh on a family day out.

You gotta remember, chances are the same relatives dying for a good Christining probably couldn't care less about whether the child ends up as an atheist, a Catholic or a Muslim. It's all about the day out

Well in that case they should all have a nice day out together to celebrate - it just doesn't have to start with a church.

IIMII

bluewolf wrote: »

Well in that case they should all have a nice day out together to celebrate - it just doesn't have to start with a church.

No but does it really matter if it does?

coffee_cake

IIMII wrote: »

No but does it really matter if it does?

Obviously it does hence the thread
I'm completely in agreement with OP on this one as well, I have to say.

iguana

IIMII wrote: »

The whole Christening thing is more often than not seen as being new-born equivalent of an important birthday like an 18th or 21st. In the eyes of your husbands family, you are probably seen as someone who is preventing them having a welcome party for a new baby.

The OP has said she would be happy to have a party for the baby. A naming ceremony or something similar but this isn't what they want.

CDfm

IIMII wrote: »

Unlikely. Have a wee bit of personal experience of this. It'll be remembered in 20 years time.

The whole Christening thing is more often than not seen as being new-born equivalent of an important birthday like an 18th or 21st. In the eyes of your husbands family, you are probably seen as someone who is preventing them having a welcome party for a new baby.

Religion is a factor, but in my experience baptism is about the occaision of welcoming a new child/grandchild/nephew/cousin into the world than welcoming them into a faith. There would be less of a hooly afterwards if it was just about the religion.

Your poor oul husband probably finds himself in the position of having to defend you from being criticised for being a party pooper - chances are that your religious stance is being interpreted as you putting the kibosh on a family day out.

You gotta remember, chances are the same relatives dying for a good Christining probably couldn't care less about whether the child ends up as an atheist, a Catholic or a Muslim. It's all about the day out

lots of sence here

bushy...

IIMII wrote: »

Unlikely. Have a wee bit of personal experience of this. It'll be remembered in 20 years time.

The whole Christening thing is more often than not seen as being new-born equivalent of an important birthday like an 18th or 21st. In the eyes of your husbands family, you are probably seen as someone who is preventing them having a welcome party for a new baby.

Religion is a factor, but in my experience baptism is about the occaision of welcoming a new child/grandchild/nephew/cousin into the world than welcoming them into a faith. There would be less of a hooly afterwards if it was just about the religion.

Your poor oul husband probably finds himself in the position of having to defend you from being criticised for being a party pooper - chances are that your religious stance is being interpreted as you putting the kibosh on a family day out.

You gotta remember, chances are the same relatives dying for a good Christining probably couldn't care less about whether the child ends up as an atheist, a Catholic or a Muslim. It's all about the day out

Sad/pathetic beyond belief.

Go to the races or whatever if ye're that stuck for a day out ?

IIMII

bushy... wrote: »

Sad/pathetic beyond belief.

Go to the races or whatever if ye're that stuck for a day out ?

Um, ok. That's how it's seen.

New baby + celebration = Good day out
Horse racing = Good day out
Horses + Baby =

Ouchette

Just wanted to say that I'll always be very grateful to my parents for never having me baptised/christened etc. I wouldn't want to be welcomed into any religion that I haven't chosen myself because free choice is important to me. If I'd just been christened for convenience (there must a been a huge amount of pressure from my dad's side of the family) that would have been even worse. It would have said to me that it's fine to do things you don't believe in for a quiet life.

If it's important to the extended family for religious reasons, then I suppose that even if the OP gives in here, there'll be more disagreements to come- church school vs non-religious, exemptions from religious classes etc.

CDfm

IIMII wrote: »

Um, ok. That's how it's seen.

New baby + celebration = Good day out
Horse racing = Good day out
Horses + Baby =

I think the you OP need to look at this as the affect it is having on your family and your husband as a unit as an important issue.

It looks to me like this has turned into a right old power game between you and your in-laws and is spreading gloom over the event.The important event being the birth and the Dad as a parent and his enjoyment of the experience.I dont think beliefs enter into it at all.

Thats from experience -off now to bring 18 yo for lunch. He is an atheist and you have to keep him busy on a Sunday or he will start burning churches down and god knows what.:rolleyes:(joking)

iguana

CDfm wrote: »

It looks to me like this has turned into a right old power game between you and your in-laws and is spreading gloom over the event.

But there doesn't get to be a power struggle between the in-laws and the OP. The in-laws have no say what so ever in the raising of their grandchild. If they are trying to exert control the OP has to stand firm as they have no rights here. The issue with the OP and her husband is different, he of course does have the right to a say. But if it is a case of him bowing to the pressure of his parents, as many here suspect, he needs to tell them to butt out and back up his partner.

CDfm

iguana wrote: »

But there doesn't get to be a power struggle between the in-laws and the OP. The in-laws have no say what so ever in the raising of their grandchild. If they are trying to exert control the OP has to stand firm as they have no rights here.

It looks to me that there is a history of problems between the OP and her in-laws.If it wasnt this it would be something else.

It certainly has nothing to do with the religious upbringing of the child whatsoever. Its fairly sad that the OPs husband is caught in the middle this way. His head must be wrecked and it must be a fairly awful time for him. Emotional blackmail central for the prospective papa though.

iguana

CDfm wrote: »

It certainly has nothing to do with the religious upbringing of the child whatsoever. Its fairly sad that the OPs husband is caught in the middle this way. His head must be wrecked and it must be a fairly awful time for him. Emotional blackmail central for the prospective papa though.

Where exactly are you getting that from?

di11on

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm open to correction but isn't it possible for any christian to baptise another rather than go for a formal christening. Your husband could simply get some holy water, make a sign of the cross on the child's forehead and say "I baptise you in the name of the father.......etc." This could easily be done without your knowledge or consent.

Like I said, I'm open to correction.

To be honest, this just shows a fundamental problem with the concept of infant baptism. My understanding of baptism, in the Biblical sense, is that it is a symbolic act that "a believer" chooses to demonstrate to the world that he/she believes in Jesus and intend to follow his teaching.

To me, the concept of a unilateral baptism is very strange. A baptism that involves no choice on the part of the person being baptised (in this case baby) is not a baptism in the biblical sense at all.

So someone could take your child, unbeknowns to you, put some water on its head and say some magic words. In my opinion, nothing magical would happen and this is not a baptism in any meaningful sense.

So, I wouldn't worry about it, to be honest. What would worry me more is the betrayal of trust that your husband would be perptrating if he were to baptise your child without your knowledge and knowingly against your wishes.

Can you try to talk this through calmly with your husband? You say he knew your feelings about this from the start so he must respect them now. Your child is free to be baptised in the future if this is what he/she chooses.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Just do it. You can't indoctrinate a baby. Not worth causing all the hassle this will bring.

But don't even think about it until after the baby is born.

I'm an atheist by the way