Please dont vote FG in the bye elections.

Pride Fighter

Ok as many know I am no fan of Fine Gael, but this has nothing to do with that. I want this government to fall as quickly as possible as I am sure many people do too. The reason I dont want people in Dublin Central or Dublin South to vote FG is because in the Dail, pretty much since the foundation of the state the government and the main opposition party have a pairing arrangement, where the opposition will have their TD's sit out the vote if a government TD is away for some reason.

Take the recent vote on the Christmas bonus. The government won by 3 votes 70-67. FG have 51 TD's and Labour 20 and SF 4. That is 75. If FG had not paired up with the government the bill could have been defeated. If the 2 vacant seats had have been filled by FG TD's the result would have been the same. If the seats were filled with an Independent or Labour TD's the government would have won by only 1 vote. If a vote of no confidence comes up FG will agin pair off with the government and if the government win by 1 vote, voting in FG will mean the current shower can continue to make a mess of things.

So everyone, it is your patriotic duty to vote for anyone but FG in the bye elections, even if you are a FG supporter.

slippy wicket

I dont know, it would just sit wrong with me.
I wonder if FG smelt blood would any pairing arrangement go out the window?
I take your point and totally agree that FF have to go before we have no country left and are owned by the germans or the IMF

hellboy99

FF have to go and should of went a long time ago, as for FG, can they be any worse ? Anyone at this stage in my eye would be better than FF.

PHB

Aren't Labour part of the pairing agreement anyway?

I've always hated the pairing agreement, but it stops democracy being decided by traffic.

Still, vote Labour

P. Breathnach

PHB wrote: »

... I've always hated the pairing agreement, but it stops democracy being decided by traffic...

More to the point, it allows members of the house be absent for official business. Imagine the trouble it would cause if a Minister had to miss a meeting of the Council of Ministers at which matters of great importance to Ireland were being decided.

I don't approve of pairing so that people might play golf or attend a social function, but pairings for official business are fair and reasonable.

dresden8

Pairings for official business good.

Pairings so Bertie can do a victory lap of South America bad.

Victor

I don't think this is a particularly good idea.

slippy wicket wrote: »

I wonder if FG smelt blood would any pairing arrangement go out the window?

It would. There was already a vote (I don't recollect what) where the pairing agreement was ignored.

A vote on a trustfund for haemophiliacs while Haughey was on official business in Japan was the beginning of the end of him.

Wishbone Ash

Pride Fighter wrote: »

a pairing arrangement, where the opposition will have their TD's sit out the vote if a government TD is away for some reason

Paired pposition TDs don't 'sit out' a vote while in Leinster House. It is only used where the opposition TD also has a very important appointment which may be difficult to cancel/miss so they 'pair' with a member of the party in power and cancel each other out as such. TDs who are present in the chamber are not 'paired'.

brianthebard

OP you think if FG try to have a motion of no confidence passed they would continue this pairing agreement?

spank_inferno

The OP is right, the pairing arrangement is yet another affront to democracy that this Dail gets away with

The citizens of Ireland voted your TD's into the Dail FG
You all turn up and vote like an opposition should

I dont care if some Fianne Fail TD,s are in hospital, at the shops or in the jacks having a w*nk, you turn up & do your f*ckin job , the job of an effective opposition

Euro_Kraut

spank_inferno wrote: »

The OP is right, the pairing arrangement is yet another affront to democracy that this Dail gets away with

The citizens of Ireland voted your TD's into the Dail FG
You all turn up and vote like an opposition should

I dont care if some Fianne Fail TD,s are in hospital, at the shops or in the jacks having a w*nk, you turn up & do your f*ckin job , the job of an effective opposition

The job of our elected representatives is not just to sit in the legislature. It is also to conduct business on the behalf of the state in other countries. The best example might be when Trade talks are on in the EU we need our Minister for Agriculture there. Another good example might be when members of the Dail help negotiate the Good Friday agreement.

It would be an affront to democracy were it the govt to fall everything some Minister left the State. In some cases the 'pairing' arrangement is justified.

is_that_so

The pairing system will continue irrespective of whether people vote for FG and depending in it or exploiting to bring down a government is something that is guaranteed to cause a lot of problems once FF are put out to pasture. Not voting for FG does not allow for a vote of no confidence in the government either. It's only the prising away of that "unpaired" majority that paves the way for an end to the current Govt. In that respect it doesn't matter who people vote for as long as it's not a Govt party.

phantom_lord

Pride Fighter wrote: »

If the seats were filled with an Independent or Labour TD's the government would have won by only 1 vote.

no, two more ff tds would have had to come in to vote that day and the gov would have won by the same margin. you're making a big jump in logic op.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

If FG had not paired up with the government the bill could have been defeated.

no, just more people would have voted.

Serenity Now!

Eff all people will vote so your plea will fall on either blind eyes or hypocritical eyes (lazy apathetic sods who moan, whinge and complain about the govt yet do nothing to affect any change whatsoever).

phantom_lord

Did you vote? If not then keep quiet. You got the government you deserved!

i'd vote if someone would give me a candidate worth voting for.

magick

well FG can smell the blood in the water, i think FF are basically bracing themselves to see how hard their gonna be hit

Serenity Now!

phantom_lord wrote: »

i'd vote if someone would give me a candidate worth voting for.

Then you get the government you deserve.

ART6

phantom_lord wrote: »

i'd vote if someone would give me a candidate worth voting for.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Then you get the government you deserve.

Ok, so then we should vote for someone who isn't worth voting for simply because there is no alternative? Perhaps that's why we have such a pathetic crop of politicians?

DarkJager

I'll be voting anyone but FF in the elections. I hope they see exactly what the country thinks of them. And for the voters who brought this crowd of **** back in to power in the last election, is there any chance you could stay home on polling day and not contribute further to the decline of this country?

turgon

Its called voting for the least worst.

Serenity Now!

ART6 wrote: »

Ok, so then we should vote for someone who isn't worth voting for simply because there is no alternative? Perhaps that's why we have such a pathetic crop of politicians?

Get off your botty and do something about it then instead of just doing nothing then moaning about those who do get voted in. One of the reasons that people become councillors is nobody else would do anything.

This is the problem here in Ireland. People tend to want something for nothing hence the embarrassingly p*ssy low turnouts at elections.

I vote for a politician regularly here in the constituency I live in because they're active and actually seem to give a stuff about the area they represent.

is_that_so

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Get off your botty and do something about it then instead of just doing nothing then moaning about those who do get voted in. One of the reasons that people become councillors is nobody else would do anything.

This is the problem here in Ireland. People tend to want something for nothing hence the embarrassingly p*ssy low turnouts at elections.

I vote for a politician regularly here in the constituency I live in because they're active and actually seem to give a stuff about the area they represent.

This I can relate to irrespective of who you vote for. What is this "worth voting for" nonsense? What we get in front of us are individuals with human frailties who want to enter public service. Some of them are talked into it, some freeloaders, some corrupt, some just cute hoors. Politics is full of them. But there are others, deluded or otherwise who take the George Lee "brave" decision. They do so because they believe that public service is for them and they can do something or make a difference. They also do so because the collective public are happier to let them, and then shout how bad they are from the sidelines.

I also think it might be instructional for potential voters to take a look at our system and make some attempt to understand it and its limitations. The regular almost daily "don't you hate/why can't we get rid of the government?" threads are clear evidence of a lack of understanding of our political system.

And if people are inclined to vote for the "least worst" then offer up reasoned arguments as to why they might be worth a vote. It's the least you owe yourself. Otherwise you really do get what you deserve.

Joey the lips

Nothing new here on the pairing how do you think the bin charges got voted in, Or did yopu fall for the Oh I was not there to vote that night....Sorry!