Euro Elections, Ireland South

Hangsangwich

The reason why a member of the electorate might feel that our Government might do something that is not for the good of Ireland is that the person might not trust the motives of those in Government. Think of the life our negotiators live. They are busy rubbing shoulders with confident sophisticated Mediterannean and mainland European leaders. Sometimes they feel intimidated as they attend elaborate banquets and cannot fully understand(or pronounce) the choice of food on offer. They suffer painful nostalgic shudders as they remember there upbringing on bacon and cabbage and Irish stew(yum!), and are in such a pityful state that they will do anything to please their counterparts in europe. Then when there is a threat that the Irish "potato peeling people" might reject the Treaty they panic at this signalling their early departure from the Inner Circle, such leaders angrily castigate the Irish people by telling us that if we do not vote for Lisbon "we will be the laughing stock of Europe".
We....the laughing stock....I don't think so...I think most Irish voters don't give a monkeys who is laughing at us. What the politician in question meant was that HE would be the laughing stock among his new European chums, and that there was an imminent danger that various extravagant luncheon engagements on board luxury yachts and what not,(what what) would caese abruptly, and that HE would be the laughing stock.
Q. So who are Irish politicians really serving when they advocate we vote "yes"?
A. Like most social climbers they are merely feeding their own sense of inadequacy

Scofflaw

Hangsangwich wrote: »

The reason why a member of the electorate might feel that our Government might do something that is not for the good of Ireland is that the person might not trust the motives of those in Government. Think of the life our negotiators live. They are busy rubbing shoulders with confident sophisticated Mediterannean and mainland European leaders. Sometimes they feel intimidated as they attend elaborate banquets and cannot fully understand(or pronounce) the choice of food on offer. They suffer painful nostalgic shudders as they remember there upbringing on bacon and cabbage and Irish stew(yum!), and are in such a pityful state that they will do anything to please their counterparts in europe. Then when there is a threat that the Irish "potato peeling people" might reject the Treaty they panic at this signalling their early departure from the Inner Circle, such leaders angrily castigate the Irish people by telling us that if we do not vote for Lisbon "we will be the laughing stock of Europe".
We....the laughing stock....I don't think so...I think most Irish voters don't give a monkeys who is laughing at us. What the politician in question meant was that HE would be the laughing stock among his new European chums, and that there was an imminent danger that various extravagant luncheon engagements on board luxury yachts and what not,(what what) would caese abruptly, and that HE would be the laughing stock.
Q. So who are Irish politicians really serving when they advocate we vote "yes"?
A. Like most social climbers they are merely feeding their own sense of inadequacy

To be brutally frank, I think that's projection. We've been in the EU for a generation, we negotiated the Constitution, we had the world coming to see how our economy was doing so well back in the late Nineties and early this decade, we've produced (and exported) some extremely talented people, from Mary Robinson to Bono, and we have some of the sharpest negotiators in the EU. The General Secretary (top non-Commissioner) of the European Commission is an Irish woman, who took over from an Irish man. The man currently putting together the first pan-European party, for all its faults and his, is also an Irish man.

The only people who think we're a bunch of hicks in ill-fitting suits are Telegraph readers - either Irish or English. Seriously, do you think Declan Ganley has that kind of inferiority complex? And if he doesn't, why do you think he's exempt? Because he's sort of English?

Very sad.

regards,
Scofflaw

Hangsangwich

i dont think Ganley has the same inferiority complex as many of the FF cronies. I admire some of his stances, and also admire his positive attitude. Unfortunately, Ganley does not strike me as an altogether personable candidate.
Another candidate down south without the need to social climb is independent candidate Dr. Alex Stafford. I heard him speak in Limerick and he has a very dynamic positive can-do attitude. He keeps his policies simple and inspires listeners that everything he stands for he can and will achieve if elected.
I am going to go and hear a few more of the candidates before I make an informed choice.
I also attended a talk by Kathy Sinnott and was impressed. However, her reputation has been somewhat tarnished by current allegations of improper expense account and salary receipts.
AS the Irish saying goes, "Tiocfaidh an aimsir" (Time will tell)

CantGetNoSleep

singularity wrote: »

I have, what's your point?

Extending the copyright from 50 to 70 (originally 95) years makes absolutely no sense. Especially not when you put it into context: A patent on (hypothetically) a cancer medicine would last 20 years. How can 70 years seem reasonable in that light?

So if I make a performance at 18, I will still be protected by copyright on that performance when I am 88, rather than me no longer being protected at 68 as was the case previously.

Crowley only wrote the report, it was accepted by a (very large) majority in the European Parliament

Dob74

New poll in the Echo
Crowley 27
S. Kelly 17
A. Kelly 13
Sinnott 12
Feris 12
Burke 10
O'Keefee 4
Bolyle 3

Crowley and Sean Kelly look like they will make it.
The last seat is to close to call. Boyle only started putting up his posters so you would think he would get more of a vote.

Dob74

Hangsangwich wrote: »

The reason why a member of the electorate might feel that our Government might do something that is not for the good of Ireland is that the person might not trust the motives of those in Government. Think of the life our negotiators live. They are busy rubbing shoulders with confident sophisticated Mediterannean and mainland European leaders. Sometimes they feel intimidated as they attend elaborate banquets and cannot fully understand(or pronounce) the choice of food on offer. They suffer painful nostalgic shudders as they remember there upbringing on bacon and cabbage and Irish stew(yum!), and are in such a pityful state that they will do anything to please their counterparts in europe. Then when there is a threat that the Irish "potato peeling people" might reject the Treaty they panic at this signalling their early departure from the Inner Circle, such leaders angrily castigate the Irish people by telling us that if we do not vote for Lisbon "we will be the laughing stock of Europe".
We....the laughing stock....I don't think so...I think most Irish voters don't give a monkeys who is laughing at us. What the politician in question meant was that HE would be the laughing stock among his new European chums, and that there was an imminent danger that various extravagant luncheon engagements on board luxury yachts and what not,(what what) would caese abruptly, and that HE would be the laughing stock.
Q. So who are Irish politicians really serving when they advocate we vote "yes"?
A. Like most social climbers they are merely feeding their own sense of inadequacy

I think the main problem with the treaty is that it was negotiated at a time when neo-liberalism was in vogue.
Openness and free markets where the way to go. Now we know regulation is the way to go. That you just cant unleash market forces and expect everything to work ok. Not that regulation is perfect but surely there is a happy medium.

As for our politians, I think they are not driven by idology so they will make any deal neccessary to please there european counterparts.

turgon

Disappointing to see Burke so low, just shows that in a democracy celebrity (S Kellly) is more important than experience.

Someone said they went to see Sinnot and was "impressed." I dont doubt it for the simple reason that she is so two faced and will dodge all accusations very cunningly. Its is quite well known that when she gives many speeches she refuses to take questions from the floor because they would disagree with her.

Example from RTE one night. Brian Dobbo was interviewing Sinnot the day British Euroskeptics had come into parliament wearing T-shirts giving out about Lisbon treaty or some such thing. Obviously this kind of controversy doesn't go well for many so Sinnot tried to distance herself from them
Dobbo: "But isnt it true that you sit in the same group as them?" (at the time she was aligned with them in the Euroskeptic Ind/Dem group)
Then Sinnot replies "The Parliament assigns us seats, I have no choice where I sit".

Which is complete bollox. She voluntarily joined this Euroskeptic group because she ideologically agreed with the T-shirt wearing Euroskeptic Brits. And now she was trying to convince everyone she loved Europe.

And what else ... anti-stem cell research, pro- hard core catholic views (anti gay marriage etc) basically completely anti personal liberty because she wants to force everyone to subscribe to her moral values.

singularity

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

So if I make a performance at 18, I will still be protected by copyright on that performance when I am 88, rather than me no longer being protected at 68 as was the case previously.

Crowley only wrote the report, it was accepted by a (very large) majority in the European Parliament

Thanks for doing the maths for me. The fact is that hardly any artist will see any benefit from this, this is all about control. For example, how much extra do you think say Brian Kennedy will make from this extension? The point is, there's very little music that sells well 50 years from its release, let alone 70.
What it will do is keep making it difficult for new artists who want to reuse and remix old music.

Originally, 95 years was suggested and that was rejected, this one is only slightly better. Why this one was accepted I don't know, but there's a pattern here: vote and vote again, until you get it right. Soon software patents will be decided on again (for the third or fourth time).

There's some 15-20,000 lobbyists running loose in Brussels, we need MEPs who can remember who they're representing.

newman10

turgon wrote: »

And what else ... anti-stem cell research, pro- hard core catholic views (anti gay marriage etc) basically completely anti personal liberty because she wants to force everyone to subscribe to her moral values.

Have to agree. She campaigned at the last election on the strength of her High Court / Autistic Campaign but imo on getting elected she showed where she was aligned.

At least with Dana you knew and understood what you were getting.

On a personal note, as the parent of a child with Down Syndrome I am extremely dissapointed in our MEP

ninty9er

Zuiderzee wrote: »

'None of your business' ? - we pay his bloody wages

No we don't...we have 13 MEPs and pay for them only. They got a TD's salary until the budget when this was reduced to a Senator's salary.

I'll be voting for Crowley because I've canvassed for him and he's genuinely very able, Ned O'Keefe I'm not so sure about, plus as a FF supporter, his election could destabilise the government, which is not a good move given the volatility of the country right now. Possibly Alex Stafford when I find out more about him and more than likely Alan Kelly 2.

Plus Stafford and A. Kelly are the only 2 candidates north of Cork/Kerry IIRC

thebigcheese22

I've canvassed for Alan Kelly and he is without doubt the most able candidate IMO. He has a very successful background in business, is young and is in touch with the electorate. He founded the Labour UCC branch which I now chair, and it is an honour to follow in his footsteps. His campaign has been very impressive (look at his website, facebook etc)

Here's hoping he wipes the smug face off of Kathy Sinnot, a Machevellian radical who'l say anything to get back into the EP. Tbh I would give Ferris my no 2, as I think she is a welcome change from the likes of Colm Burke. Speaking of Burke, my friends in my class met him on a trip to Strasbourg and they were far from impressed. He got in because he had the right friends but no way is he going to retain his seat in the election. So I'm gonna predict Crowley, Sean Kelly, and Alan Kelly

Scofflaw

turgon wrote: »

Disappointing to see Burke so low, just shows that in a democracy celebrity (S Kellly) is more important than experience.

Someone said they went to see Sinnot and was "impressed." I dont doubt it for the simple reason that she is so two faced and will dodge all accusations very cunningly. Its is quite well known that when she gives many speeches she refuses to take questions from the floor because they would disagree with her.

Example from RTE one night. Brian Dobbo was interviewing Sinnot the day British Euroskeptics had come into parliament wearing T-shirts giving out about Lisbon treaty or some such thing. Obviously this kind of controversy doesn't go well for many so Sinnot tried to distance herself from them
Dobbo: "But isnt it true that you sit in the same group as them?" (at the time she was aligned with them in the Euroskeptic Ind/Dem group)
Then Sinnot replies "The Parliament assigns us seats, I have no choice where I sit".

Which is complete bollox. She voluntarily joined this Euroskeptic group because she ideologically agreed with the T-shirt wearing Euroskeptic Brits. And now she was trying to convince everyone she loved Europe.

And what else ... anti-stem cell research, pro- hard core catholic views (anti gay marriage etc) basically completely anti personal liberty because she wants to force everyone to subscribe to her moral values.

It's interesting, given that analysis of her agenda, that Libertas aren't standing against her, and that she has apparently agreed to join Libertas if elected.

cordially,
Scofflaw

CantGetNoSleep

Just wondering does anyone know where you can access the list of potential replacements for a successful candidate who doesn't complete their full term? Are these made public before the election?

turgon

No they are replaced by their party.

So Colm Burke replaced Simon Coveney.

So basically vote for the party if you want to be sure.

P. Breathnach

Scofflaw wrote: »

It's interesting, given that analysis of her agenda, that Libertas aren't standing against her, and that she has apparently agreed to join Libertas if elected.

How is that agreement apparent?

It seem unlikely that she will have any Irish colleagues with who to join forces. Are there any realistic prospects in other EU member-states?

Steviemak

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Are there any realistic prospects in other EU member-states?

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2009/may/17/its-the-final-countdown-for-ganleys-europe/

Looks like some of his anti-eu candidates in France, Finland, Czech and Poland may get in - incl the Auschwitz was "not a death camp, it was a labour camp" candidate.

So much for the pro-EU Libertas??

veronica

i would be very concerned about Sinnott getting back in and I am the parent of a disablied adult. she done nothing for the disablied of this country in fact she used her position as a so called disablity campaigner to be elected last time out.
she is a clever speaker when on tv and radio and knows what buttons to push to get her point across but she has disappeared into the wilderness for over 4 years and is in my view just in it for the money! But she has a huge following!
So advice please what would be the best system of voting to get her out?

BlitzKrieg

So advice please what would be the best system of voting to get her out?

I assume making it as blatantly clear and widespread that she abused her MEP priviliges and essentially stole from irish taxpayers.

I really cannot fanthom how anything more is needed to convince someone that she is not a suitbale candidate.

With candidates like those from libertas and fianna fail there is alot of here say and assumptions on theiir policies and character and it does come down to the voter's preference in the end.

But Kathy Sinnott has video footage of her abusing her priviliges, and she cannot push it off as misrepresentation when she officially responded to the original video with a defence of *I worked all night* (she has since removed her youtube response which is a shame) she confirms that she did indeed claim the benefit and that her defence was wrong because legally she had no grounds. The EU itself might be letting her away with her because of her claim of ignorance coupled with the tighening of benefit regulations means she wont be claiming it anymore if she does get re-elected. But she should be still held accountable to her electorate and that is the democratic process.

Our man in Havana

Debate now on TV3.

turgon

Could Ferris make more of an ass of herself?

Claiming the Westminster scam wasnt bogus.

Claiming FF are detached from reality - look who talking.

Oh and I forgot, Christmas is canceled :rolleyes:

Our man in Havana

Could Ferris make more of an ass of herself?

Vincent sure did give her a hard time.

Rebelheart

Have any of these candidates had the basic decency to plaster their posters across the Gaeltacht in Irish this time?

Last time these chancers were out, not one of them had that basic respect or appreciation of cultural diversity when I was spending a month in Baile an Fheirtéaraigh and Corca Dhuibhne. Brian Cowley in particular disappointed as his posters were most prevalent - all in English.

These things are noted on the ground, even if they are clearly not thought about by the people running these campaigns.

Our man in Havana

Rebelheart wrote: »

Have any of these candidates had the basic decency to plaster their posters across the Gaeltacht in Irish this time?

Last time these chancers were out, not one of them had that basic respect or appreciation of cultural diversity when I was spending a month in Baile an Fheirtéaraigh and Corca Dhuibhne. Brian Cowley in particular disappointed as his posters were most prevalent - all in English.

These things are noted on the ground, even if they are clearly not thought about by the people running these campaigns.

The Sinn Féin ones were surely in Irish?

BlitzKrieg

sadly no tv, I assume its vincent browne, who's on and who's missing?

turgon

Boyle Ferris Sinnot and Burke.

Ive never seen the show before buts its trash. Vincent is a crap presenter, he has 4 European candidates there and instead of bouncing them off one another he spends like 5 minutes trying to get a controversial statement out of Dan Boyle so the name of his show will become known. Then brings in some old lady about event this country apparently will never be able to get over. Grrr...

BlitzKrieg

i enjoyed the episode with the dublin candidates, that was mostly because at how laughable Caroline Simmons defence was when she was asked direct questions, but his one with the north west constituency was awful and he admited it himself the next episode that there was too muich cross table shouting and it was just a mess with nothing of worth from it.

I wouldnt be surprised if this one is just as weak, its a shame though.

LordSutch

Have just been watching Questions & Answers, and yet again Mary Lou was dominated by the rest of the panel, she came across as lacking any real content, spouting off the usual hollow soundbites that just don't wash when held up to scrutiny, and as usual she still keept stating the bleedin obvious! 'we need politicians we can trust, the Irish people will decide who sits in Brussels, we need transparency & accountability' . . . .

Such bloody obvious stuff, with no substance whatsoever! The panel consisted of Proinsias De Rossa, Gay Mitchel, Eoin Ryan, Mary Lou, and some economist chap. she certainly wont be getting my Euro vote.

guinnessdrinker

Camelot, it was a Questions and Answers Dublin Euro election special. This thread is about Ireland South!

BlitzKrieg

is it possible to watch Q+A online aswell?

I found De Rossa to be a very capable guest when he was on vincent browne and would like to see if that was a fluke or if he is actually genuinely capable as a MEP?

I know this is off topic a bit more but sorry I am curious.

LordSutch

Sorry, I thought 'Ireland South' included Dublin!