21st Century Breakdown - Greenday New Album Preview.

Driver 8

I wave off selling out because I've literally never been convinced of it as a valid argument, as it's generally based on hearsay, presumption and adolescent understandings of "credibility", particularly prevalent in punk.

How do you know that their sound changed to garner mass appeal? You're making that assumption because that was the result. It may well have been simply the route their songwriting took. R.E.M. wrote songs like The One I Love and Losing My Religion because that's just where their artistic process took them.

What evidence do you have in this instance for Green Day censoring content? And if they used the anti-Bush sentiment to up sales, you could levy that charge at every artist from them to Bruce Springsteen.

Who they are "playing for" is an entirely subjective notion. I like them because I like a decent amount of their songs and some of their albums. Not their image, their eyeliner, their credibility, their message, their personalities, their voting preferences, their brand of deodorant, their SONGS

nix

Driver 8 wrote: »

I wave off selling out because I've literally never been convinced of it as a valid argument, as it's generally based on hearsay, presumption and adolescent understandings of "credibility", particularly prevalent in punk.

How do you know that their sound changed to garner mass appeal? You're making that assumption because that was the result. It may well have been simply the route their songwriting took. R.E.M. wrote songs like The One I Love and Losing My Religion because that's just where their artistic process took them.

What evidence do you have in this instance for Green Day censoring content? And if they used the anti-Bush sentiment to up sales, you could levy that charge at every artist from them to Bruce Springsteen.

Who they are "playing for" is an entirely subjective notion. I like them because I like a decent amount of their songs and some of their albums. Not their image, their eyeliner, their credibility, their message, their personalities, their voting preferences, their brand of deodorant, their SONGS

So your calling it a blind coincidence all of the above mentioned changed when they changed record label? Come on man !

If you like the new music, then like it i don't really care. But to think for one second that the murmur's of "sell outs" are ever going to dwindle, your sadly mistaken.

And i never said Bruce wasn't a sellout :P

I'm not here to attack, ive had these arguments over and over and care not to repeat. I'm just meerley passing my outlook on the situation as per your request.

Driver 8

Is a "blind coincidence" a different kind of coincidence? Just wondering...

I think when they changed record label they also changed producers, and they began writing different kinds of songs. Evolving like that is how songwriting generally works

The murmurs of sell out may well continue, but it's hard to hear murmurs over a couple thousand people at sold out shows in arenas and stadiums.

Bruce a sellout? Don't make me laugh.

nix

Driver 8 wrote: »

The murmurs of sell out may well continue, but it's hard to hear murmurs over a couple thousand kids at sold out shows in arenas and stadiums.

Fixed!

And i never said Bruce was a sellout, i dont know enough about him to pass that judgement.

I used to be a BIG Greenday fan, hence my presence here. If it were a Bruce Springsteen post you wouldn't be talking to me..

And lay off my use of words, im juggling work and boards at the same time :P

Driver 8

Last Green Day show I was at had people from around 10 or 12 up to people in their forties (and not just parents, before you throw that back).

nix

Driver 8 wrote: »

Last Green Day show I was at had people from around 10 or 12 up to people in their forties (and not just parents, before you throw that back).

Last Greenday gig i was at i needed fake Id as it was strictly over 18's :P

Driver 8

Is that back when they were cool, or what?

"Yeah! I liked them when only older cooler people were allowed into their gigs!";)

nix

Yes thats exactly it, after ill ive stated you have found the real hidden reason why i now dont like Greendays music.

Driver 8

Because they've undertaken a conspiracy to market their music to uncool kids?

ShawnRaven

Driver 8 wrote: »

Listen, if someone wants to actually discuss the music involved, i'm all for it. I'd be interested to know why, for instance, American Idiot wasn't a record you enjoyed.

But "legitimate reasons"? please....eyeliner, suits and being "gay"? hardly.

It sure as hell wasn't for anything they did in about seven years prior to American Idiot musically. In the world of chart music, IMAGE is EVERYTHING over music. And their image change does play a big part in their chart success for the likes of Boulevard Of Broken dreams.

Don't get me wrong, Green Day aren't the only ones to fall into that category. But an image change did help, and it's painfully obvious.

I'm not saying everyone who dislikes Green Day does so for the reasons I mentioned, it's just a trend I've noticed among a lot of people I know, and in some of the sniffier reviews of both their last dvd and the new record.

Only I'd already explained my own personal reasons, why i had stopped listening to them SEVEN YEARS BEFORE American Idiot. Their ship had sailed long before their trendy suits and eyeliner as far as I was concerned.

Driver 8

Image change helping sales?

Well i think David Bowie would've had a life sentence by now if it were a punishable crime.

DarkJager

Their latest song is insufferable...

kona

SirLemonhead wrote: »

They're about as "gay" as WASP in fairness, kona :P

Okay okay,

acid test for gayness...

The george 12am on a friday night:

You are more likely to hear

A) Know your Enemy or Dookie or Basket case.....All greenday all IMO flacid

B)Blind In texas,Headless Children,Chainsaw Charlie or Tormentor...All W.A.S.P ALL IMO Kick ass Tunes


Sorry Id have to say your far more likely to hear greenday.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::p:p:p

Ill let steel panther say it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b01Iv5AQEJM

kona

Driver 8 wrote: »

Listen, if someone wants to actually discuss the music involved, i'm all for it. I'd be interested to know why, for instance, American Idiot wasn't a record you enjoyed.

But "legitimate reasons"? please....eyeliner, suits and being "gay"? hardly.

I'm not saying everyone who dislikes Green Day does so for the reasons I mentioned, it's just a trend I've noticed among a lot of people I know, and in some of the sniffier reviews of both their last dvd and the new record.

Their image isnt "gay"
their music is gay, its flacid and crap, no in yer face go **** yer ma if you dont like it, Tunes.

ShawnRaven

Driver 8 wrote: »

Image change helping sales?

Well i think David Bowie would've had a life sentence by now if it were a punishable crime.

Just as well I never said it was. I said it helped revive them, just like it helped revive Bowie.

Keep throwing the red herrings out there, i've a long fishing rod and all the time in the world!

Driver 8

Only if you put away your dictionary of dodgy metaphors :P

ShawnRaven

Driver 8 wrote: »

Only if you put away your dictionary of dodgy metaphors :P

Aye - opposing opinions, they're a bitch aren't they? :P

Driver 8

Mate, it's a discussion, relax.

The only thing I took exception to were those awful metaphors

ShawnRaven

I'm perfectly relaxed, as bad as the metaphors may have been, they conveyed my point across perfectly. They did their job.

villains77

i got the album last thursday asnd only listen to it a few times. agree it sounds like the last album indeed. some of the songs dont even sound like them at all pop crap yikes lwtf are they playing at. the last album is much better by far. seen them live a few times and there great but with the new album id rather go see another gig.

Driver 8

The pitchfork review is hilariously dismissive of 21st Century Breakdown. I'm not saying there aren't valid criticisms, but the sheer amount of hipster bile in the review is quite amusing.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/13045-21st-century-breakdown/

Driver 8

The irony being that pitchfork gave american idiot quite a positive review

LoonyLovegood

If it wasn't for American Idiot, I wouldn't know about Greenday. But it's not their best album, I think that was Dookie. But a band's sound changes with time, you can't expect them to have the exact same sound right through their career, can you?

21st Century Breakdown is good, but not great. Viva La Gloria! is a highlight, and would have made a far better lead single than Know Your Enemy. I'm still glad I bought my ticket to see them in October though!

docdolittle

Is it just me or do some of the songs really just sound like MCR..?

¿Viva La Gloria? [Little Girl]

That just sounds like Gerrard Way could sing it :P

villains77

Mr.S wrote: »

When you say it doesn't "sound like them at all", what are you comparing it to? Their old stuff?

Whats the point in comparing it to the Dookie/Nimrod etc days, when its obvious that with American Idiot record they wanted to (and it worked too) change their sound & image.
i meant on the new album that it didnt sound like typical greenday songs. that all i meant. and why would i compar it to dookie and nimrod when they moved on from them albums

ShawnRaven

Probably for a lot of people who did get into them originally, the direction they are taking is considered a slap in the face. Think about it, you support a band for years, buy their albums, go to their gigs and then two years later they come up with a really strange album that a lot of the fanbase that they built up for years either can't relate to or it's not to their taste.

It's all fine and good to say "they changed their style, deal with it". but who do you think helped put Green Day on the map before American Idiot?

Just some food for thought, that's all.

Driver 8

Shawn, you could apply that argument to so many acts (Dylan going electric, Radiohead and Kid A). Quite often it does come as a shock to the fanbase, and thins out thier ranks, but frankly, generally speaking, it has to happen. Radiohead could still be trying to recreate The Bends, Green Day could still be trying to recreate Dookie, but they're not. Even if some albums aren't as good as others, I do think it's better to move forward, rather than be stuck in some sort of Status Quo netherworld where every album sounds the same.

shenanigans1982

docdolittle wrote: »

Is it just me or do some of the songs really just sound like MCR..?

¿Viva La Gloria? [Little Girl]

That just sounds like Gerrard Way could sing it :P

I am guessing thats the song that sounds like the MCR song mama.

I am a long time Green Day fan and thought American Idiot is their best work, something about the cd really connected with me. As far as 21st Century breakdown goes I have only given it a few listens and some songs have grown on me but it lacks up tempo tracks.

The main thing though is the amount of songs they just seem to have copied from other bands....MCR, The Who, Oasis and even some from their previous albums.

I am still looking forward the seeing them in OCT, they always put on a good gig even if it's as scripted as a gig can be.

ShawnRaven

Mr.S wrote: »

They obviously didn't do a very good job if hardly anyone knew them before American Idiot;)

Sure, because Dookie wasn't a success at all! I never said Dookie wasn't a success, I said that the band faded into obscurity in between Dookie and American Idiot. Hardly the fault of the fans.

Next time, I suggest actually reading my post? Or maybe reading the thread from the first page? Rather than half-assed efforts to pick apart what i said and making yourself look rather silly in the process.

Good day to you, sir.

ShawnRaven

Driver 8 wrote: »

Shawn, you could apply that argument to so many acts (Dylan going electric, Radiohead and Kid A). Quite often it does come as a shock to the fanbase, and thins out thier ranks, but frankly, generally speaking, it has to happen. Radiohead could still be trying to recreate The Bends, Green Day could still be trying to recreate Dookie, but they're not. Even if some albums aren't as good as others, I do think it's better to move forward, rather than be stuck in some sort of Status Quo netherworld where every album sounds the same.

I'm not going to disagree with that, hence why i said in my first post on this subject that they did reinvent themselves by changing their sound and their image, i can't deny that and i'm not going to attempt to.

My point was that the older fanbase who did support them prior to American Idiot aren't always going to be so understanding. Def Leppard tried the same in 1996 with the Slang album by trying for a heavier sound after the grunge movement and nearly committed career suicide as a result as the album alienated a good 2/3rds of their fanbase. It took them years to recover.

It could of gone both ways for Green Day, thankfully for them, it worked in their favour.