Living with owner occupier

bobbiw

The interest is tax deductible as is the property taxes.

The average rent for a one bedroom apartment where I live is between 1500 for a shabby one to 2500 for a nice one.

I wouldnt be buying a ferarri either.

rain on

bobbiw wrote: »

I think the rules are more because if a person is going to stay in a home that they realisticly cant or are unlikely to ever to afford then they should live by some rules.

I dont want to spend that much money to find a dinner party in my living room when I want to watch tv. Likewise I dont want people running amuck in my home and having a party when I want to sleep.

That's where consideration comes in, in most situations I find something like "Are you in on Wednesday, I was thinking of having X over for dinner" goes a long way. Not making a racket when other people are trying to sleep is basic consideration as well in my book. Maybe rules vs consideration is just semantics though.

Thoie

I don't think you can put a blanket ban on owner-occupiers.

I'd be the horrible kind - if I was renting a room out there'd be certain rules that a lot of people would hate - no noise after 11 on a week night, no inviting strangers to stay unless I'd met them and agreed first, if you're going to bring a bunch of people home after the pub, call me first to ask. This is why I don't have a lodger - they'd hate me Like other people have said, I wouldn't take kindly to finding a stranger in the hall in the middle of the night. While some people will say my "rules" are pretty much common decency in any shared place, I've shared with a lot of people in the past who had no consideration for their home or their housemates.

On the other hand I have a friend who'd like to buy her own place, and share the place, mainly for company. She's very easy going, and would probably make a great landlady, but she's aware that she may have problems finding a renter as a lot of people steer clear of owner occupied places.

If your friend is considering renting one of these places, I'd suggest asking the owner if they have time for a loooong chat beforehand to discuss all these things.

bobbiw

Thoie wrote: »

I don't think you can put a blanket ban on owner-occupiers.

I'd be the horrible kind - if I was renting a room out there'd be certain rules that a lot of people would hate - no noise after 11 on a week night, no inviting strangers to stay unless I'd met them and agreed first, if you're going to bring a bunch of people home after the pub, call me first to ask. This is why I don't have a lodger - they'd hate me Like other people have said, I wouldn't take kindly to finding a stranger in the hall in the middle of the night. While some people will say my "rules" are pretty much common decency in any shared place, I've shared with a lot of people in the past who had no consideration for their home or their housemates.

On the other hand I have a friend who'd like to buy her own place, and share the place, mainly for company. She's very easy going, and would probably make a great landlady, but she's aware that she may have problems finding a renter as a lot of people steer clear of owner occupied places.

If your friend is considering renting one of these places, I'd suggest asking the owner if they have time for a loooong chat beforehand to discuss all these things.

Saying all that, i would let them have more rights, dinner parties, friends over, more usage of the kitchen. If they were paying half of what the place would rent for. In my case its around 10-12k a month.

So if they fork out 5-6k a month then no problem.
look at it this way.
if the average Irish 3 bed would rent out for 1500 a month, then its the same as them getting a room for 150 a month.

You wouldnt expect to rent a room out for 150 and let them have the run of the place would you

Thoie

bobbiw wrote: »

Saying all that, i would let them have more rights, dinner parties, friends over, more usage of the kitchen. If they were paying half of what the place would rent for. In my case its around 10-12k a month.

So if they fork out 5-6k a month then no problem.
look at it this way.
if the average Irish 3 bed would rent out for 1500 a month, then its the same as them getting a room for 150 a month.

You wouldnt expect to rent a room out for 150 and let them have the run of the place would you

No, but even at €150 a month I wouldn't rent a place that's purely a bed.

You might get the odd business man who literally just wants a place to sleep a couple of nights a week, and always eats out, etc., but the majority of people renting are looking for a home, not a place to sleep. Even at €150 a month I expect to be able to cook dinner, have a shower, have a visitor and have a sofa to sit on from time to time.

bobbiw

well people can choose what they want to do. If they want to live in my place they need to live by the way i want my property to be lived in.

They cant pay 1200 a month and have all their friends over and have parties and dinners etc. because its my home.

Now not to be funny but if someone is only going to pay 1200, then they cant afford to live where i live and if i let them have a room then thats the way it is.

i sometimes wonder if this is part of the problem that is going to cause the devestation to the irish property market.


People thought it was their god given right to own property, to have a job, to have healthcare, to have a new car, etc etc

When in fact its not. You dont have a right to anything. You just think you do.

The_Conductor

bobbiw wrote: »

well people can choose what they want to do. If they want to live in my place they need to live by the way i want my property to be lived in.

They cant pay 1200 a month and have all their friends over and have parties and dinners etc. because its my home.

Now not to be funny but if someone is only going to pay 1200, then they cant afford to live where i live and if i let them have a room then thats the way it is.

i sometimes wonder if this is part of the problem that is going to cause the devestation to the irish property market.


People thought it was their god given right to own property, to have a job, to have healthcare, to have a new car, etc etc

When in fact its not. You dont have a right to anything. You just think you do.

It is your house- and it is your perogative to set whatever rules you so decide on.

I would argue with you as to what people's rights and expectations are/should be.....

People do not have the right to own property. They have the right to purchase property, should they so decide, and should they be in a position to fund the purchase. This is what destroyed the US housing market- and as part of it- the global financial system- people expected to purchase property without ever having the means to pay for it. Ireland, unlike the US, did not have a subprime explosion catering to providing finance to those unable to afford it (for whatever reason). Unlike in the US- Irish people can not simply declare themselves bankrupt- and walk away from their debts- or akin the US- hand the keys back to the bank and let the bank. That is at least in part what has caused the global depression........

Irish people have a historic hatred of landlords- compounded by appalling rights and legislation recently introduced which has in fact swung the pendelum too far in the opposite direction- where landlords are now very much on the backfoot to try to ensure

In a US context- or an Irish context- 1200 a month is currently sufficient to service a mortgage on a 2-3 bed apartment/condo in a reasonable part of any town, or fund a mortgage in a slightly better part of town.

I am sure you have a lovely house- no-one is doubting it.

In an Irish context- every single person does have a right to healthcare- unlike in the US. They do not have the right to own a car or a house- unless they can afford to pay for it. They do have the right to public transport- or assistance towards accommodation- if they are unable to afford it. We have a wholly different system in Ireland to that in the States- its why our PRSI (social security) contributions are so high- people do have rights here that they do not have in the states...... Its also why your disposable income as a percentage of your gross income is so much higher there, than it is here- its a different political and social system.......

MysticalSoul

As an owner occupier, I am appalled the constraints Bobbi is insisting on. The room may have a microwave, but I, prefer to cook proper meals, so there is no way I would entertain such an arrangement, also, if I wanted to live in such a setting, I would probably go for a b&b instead.

As an owner occupier, I am pretty laid back. The only rule is that boy/girlfriends can stay occasionally, but not every night. This is ensuring that they are aware that the room is for single occupancy.

When I rented myself, there is only one owner occupier that I started to resent. She was doing exams and studied in the living room, which meant I had no where to eat my dinner, and hence, ended up eating out around that time, which I did resent, as I was paying rent every month. I have rented mostly with owner occupiers, and only ever had a problem once, so I do think it depends on the person. I have found that tenants are getting more and more picky - in a 2 bed place asking if the bathroom is shared, if bills are included etc. Considering my rent is the lowest in the area, it would be stupid to have it to include gas and esb, as that leaves it open to abuse.

bobbiw

smccarrick wrote: »

It is your house- and it is your perogative to set whatever rules you so decide on.

I would argue with you as to what people's rights and expectations are/should be.....

People do not have the right to own property. They have the right to purchase property, should they so decide, and should they be in a position to fund the purchase. This is what destroyed the US housing market- and as part of it- the global financial system- people expected to purchase property without ever having the means to pay for it. Ireland, unlike the US, did not have a subprime explosion catering to providing finance to those unable to afford it (for whatever reason). Unlike in the US- Irish people can not simply declare themselves bankrupt- and walk away from their debts- or akin the US- hand the keys back to the bank and let the bank. That is at least in part what has caused the global depression........

Irish people have a historic hatred of landlords- compounded by appalling rights and legislation recently introduced which has in fact swung the pendelum too far in the opposite direction- where landlords are now very much on the backfoot to try to ensure

In a US context- or an Irish context- 1200 a month is currently sufficient to service a mortgage on a 2-3 bed apartment/condo in a reasonable part of any town, or fund a mortgage in a slightly better part of town.

I am sure you have a lovely house- no-one is doubting it.

In an Irish context- every single person does have a right to healthcare- unlike in the US. They do not have the right to own a car or a house- unless they can afford to pay for it. They do have the right to public transport- or assistance towards accommodation- if they are unable to afford it. We have a wholly different system in Ireland to that in the States- its why our PRSI (social security) contributions are so high- people do have rights here that they do not have in the states...... Its also why your disposable income as a percentage of your gross income is so much higher there, than it is here- its a different political and social system.......

I agree with you on a lot of that. the subprime thing was nuts, well I suppose it was nuts at the top of the bubble. And it fueled it.

they didnt have that in Ireland and thankfully so, prices would have gone up a lot more. But saying that you were lucky a year or two ago to get a 6.5% so getting supprime for 5% wasnt that big a deal.

I do think universal healthcare is a good idea. Its just not the norm here. Not that if you are hit by a car they leave you on the side of the street but someone has to pay for it.

faceman

My best renting experience was with an owner occupier. House was better kept and we had a top of the rang telly and surround sound! His Da even came over to cut the grass from time to time!

However that being said, he always informed me in advance if he was having a party or if there was something out of the norm etc. I never cared though but I imagine i would have felt different if he didnt let me know.

It shouldnt matter whether someone is the owner occupier, a bit of courtesy never goes astray.

jenizzle

I lived with an owner occupier before and I would never do it again. While I may be tarring everyone with the same brush, I'd never want to put myself in that situation again.
She was obsessed with cleanliness, to the point where she scrubbed her carpets with a toothbrush and blamed it on my long trousers. She asked me to leave one month before my exams.
We weren't allowed use the downstairs bathroom as it was for guests only - even though she wouldn't allow guests to stay.

libertas

jenizzle wrote: »

She was obsessed with cleanliness

This is the core of most owner occupier/lodger disagreements I would say - or at least resentment starts at this point. It could easily be one of two extremes - ie. one obessed with cleanliness or the other not treating stuff like they would if it were their own - and/or all points in between.
One classic thing that I always noticed. Some of my lodgers would probably put me in the category above - but then I would say they didn't have the same regard for my stuff as they would if it was theirs. Having said that, the same lodgers would have their cars constantly at professional valet standard!
And as regards the cleaning, no one has EVER had to do any - or been asked to do any - other than an expectation that everyone leaves the place as they found it. Only one of the bunch that I've had did any cleaning voluntarily and he was Austrian. Go figure.

Also, a lot of people seem to write off the owner occupier deal as if it couldnt work regardless who your dealing with. I think some lodgers come up with this conclusion because they know they couldn't deal with people being the muckers that they are or have been as lodgers if they were doing the owner occupying...

bobbiw

A lot has to do with expectations that people have.

Some people who are used to living with room mates cant adjust to the lodger thing. they tend to think they are on equal footing with the home owner.

It is up to the owner to make the rules for living in their property and if the lodger doesnt like it then they dont have to rent the place.

If they agree to the rules then everything is cool.

serg353

libertas wrote: »

As an owner occupier for the last three years, let me give the other side of the story.

There is a different dynamic when living in an owner occupied house and to any new house sharers, I tell them this before they move in.

Advantages for the sharer:
1. House usually well kept/clean and more likely to be furnished to a higher standard.
2. If theres a problem, your 'landlord' is right there to sort it out...and its more likely to get sorted out as its directly in their interests too.
3. Nobody else has to put a bill in their name, has to arrange for actual bills to be paid, etc. They only have to pay their share when its calculated and presented to them.

Disadvantages for the sharer:
1. A lot of people (and in my experience particularly irish people) like to find a nice clean gaff to move into. However, when it comes to 'leaving stuff the way they found it', they couldn't give a f**k. A bit of a generalisation but I've found it to be true. Yes, wear and tear is fine but beyond that ...and it does go beyond that - cos it shows - a lot of people don't give a f**k and think they can treat stuff like they would with the cheap run down furnishings in a full on rental scenario.
So, for sharers who act like this and feel this way, then this is the biggest point of friction.
2. The dynamic of the house is different because whether the sharer likes it or not, the owner occupier DOES run the show and it can't be any other way. If theres resentment in this respect, then go live somewhere else.

The bottom line is that its a two way street. I've often thought about some of the characters I've had as sharers and how they would fare doing the owner occupier thing themselves. For a lot of these, they would never do it because they couldn't deal with the unreasonable attitudes and behaviours they show themselves as house-sharers - fact.
In my case, I take the whole cleaning thing out of the equation and do it all myself. Yet you will get some ignorant bastards that don't appreciate this and think they can leave stuff in a heap.
My experience with non-irish has been quite the opposite. No problems with attitude, paying rent or treating the house and its contents with respect.

I could not agree more with you

bobbiw

serg353 wrote: »

I could not agree more with you

Interesting.

Key thing is that most people who share are used to sharing with people who are on a equal footing as them.

If you are living with the owner then you are not on an equal footing as them. I personaly wouldnt like to do it.

I have friends who rent a couple of rooms out and although its an extra couple of grand a month I wouldnt like it. Especialy the idea of them having people over.

Also the idea of having the kitchen messed up by someone and left would drive me nuts. And of course I wouldnt want to come home and find the rented with a bunch of mates in the house.

Another guy I know rents out a room but its not directly attached to the main property. The guy has his own bathroom and parking and can use the kitchen. Although its kind of implied that he doesnt use the living room. But then again he has a big sofa in the bedroom.

I would admit it would be difficult to live in that situation. Kind of feeling like you were not welcome or wanted in a certain area, but if you are getting a good deal its perfect.