GenerationYes

lostexpectation

the triple lock is useless the gov will do what they do. and do what there told.

Scofflaw

O'Coonassa wrote: »

I mainly mean the military policy of EUMS/EUFOR but yes I also have a problem with Irish foreign policy.

Neither EUMS nor EUFOR set policy - do you mean the policy of such things existing? The policy of the UN in asking regional organisations like the EU and the AU to put peacekeeping forces together to cover the ongoing hole left in UN accounts by the US?

the triple lock is useless the gov will do what they do. and do what there told.

What does it have to do with the EU? And has the government ever actually breached the triple lock arrangement?

still perplexed,
Scofflaw

O'Coonassa

Scofflaw wrote: »

Neither EUMS nor EUFOR set policy - do you mean the policy of such things existing? The policy of the UN in asking regional organisations like the EU and the AU to put peacekeeping forces together to cover the ongoing hole left in UN accounts by the US?

Yes, well the whole general global policy of rich (usually white) people shafting poor (usually brown) people. Who sets policy for EUMS and EUFOR by the way? Is it EUMC? There's an awful lot of EU's in those acronyms but I suppose that must be just a weird coincidence.

Scofflaw

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Yes, well the whole general global policy of rich (usually white) people shafting poor (usually brown) people. Who sets policy for EUMS and EUFOR by the way? Is it EUMC? There's an awful lot of EU's in those acronyms but I suppose that must be just a weird coincidence.

Well, the UN sets policy for things like EUFOR, because they're actually UN forces. The EUMS would have policy set for it by the Council - or, where it is coordinating something like EUFOR, by the UN.

cordially,
Scofflaw

lostexpectation

Scofflaw wrote: »

Neither EUMS nor EUFOR set policy - do you mean the policy of such things existing? The policy of the UN in asking regional organisations like the EU and the AU to put peacekeeping forces together to cover the ongoing hole left in UN accounts by the US?



What does it have to do with the EU? And has the government ever actually breached the triple lock arrangement?

still perplexed,
Scofflaw

the gov will continue to do things which are less neutral under the eda and eu, i look at their behaviour currently with their foreign policy and use that to judge their behaviour under a wider system, I said the tripe lock was useless i never said it was breached, thats the points.

View

lostexpectation wrote: »

the gov will continue to do things which are less neutral under the eda and eu, i look at their behaviour currently with their foreign policy and use that to judge their behaviour under a wider system, I said the tripe lock was useless i never said it was breached, thats the points.

If the Government wants to, it could introduce a bill for Ireland to join NATO in the morning. Bar a major political earthquake it would pass in the Oireachtas and we'd all be faced with a fait accompli about it. At which point, Irish-style neutrality would be history.

The fact that it doesn't should tell you that they just couldn't be bothered signing up for military alliances whether at NATO, EU or any other level.

The "This will mean the end of neutrality" and "We'll all be conscripted" arguments have been trotted out for every EU Treaty since 1973. They have been wrong on every single occasion.

If you can't get your head around the idea that they are nonsense, then report to your nearest army barracks, as you must be overdue doing your stint as an army conscript.

Duffman

lostexpectation wrote: »

sorry who said that, no reference.

andrew bryne mr 'director' of generation yes wrote letter to the times criticising people making judgement about which way to vote on lisbon 2 before the final wording was agreed, now he doing this generation YES.

It's not referenced because it's a lie. That's kind of the whole point of that article. These are all red herrings that cropped up during Lisbon I, they are not necessarily direct quotes though where they are this is stated clearly.

Of all the points you could dispute, you're going for conscription. Really?

P. Breathnach

View wrote: »

If the Government wants to, it could introduce a bill for Ireland to join NATO in the morning. Bar a major political earthquake it would pass in the Oireachtas and we'd all be faced with a fait accompli about it. At which point, Irish-style neutrality would be history...

There is a telling phrase: Irish-style neutrality, and I think it very apt.

Irish neutrality is rooted in either pragmatism or expediency (take your pick, depending on your retrospective assessment of Dev). It did not start as a principled stance, but as an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Yes, some of those who now wish us to be neutral have a principled basis for their position. But our governments (of all hues) have generally not been so principled about it. Some, including the current government, describe it as military neutrality, leaving the matter of our general leanings ambiguous. You might say that we have been pro-NATO, or pro-western, or anti-communist, or whatever, without committing any actual resources to support the stance.

KarenWallace

passive wrote: »

But it's a Yes campaign group, recently set up, that seems pretty interesting and well organised, with a non-party political base

Yeah and who is paying for it???

ninty9er

KarenWallace wrote: »

Yeah and who is paying for it???

Who said campaigns had to cost anything. I'm meeting a guy from Gen Yes on Fridayto discuss how to promote it in UL and around Limerick, people don't need to cost money on a campaign like this, people are mainly what's needed, 100 A4 posters costs about €50, not the world, and if you can't see that you need help.

ionix5891

lostexpectation wrote: »

sorry who said that, no reference.

andrew bryne mr 'director' of generation yes wrote letter to the times criticising people making judgement about which way to vote on lisbon 2 before the final wording was agreed, now he doing this generation YES.

The lady up the road from me here in Galway said that before marching to the booth

the "event" was shown on RTE news and was all over local newspapers causing alot of head shacking in Galway at the stupidity of some

ionix5891

KarenWallace wrote: »

Yeah and who is paying for it???

who paid all the millions last year to Libertas ?


and where are the millions being spend around europe by the current Libertas coming from??

passive

KarenWallace wrote: »

Yeah and who is paying for it???

Me, for one... I'm going to donate €50 or so to the campaign to make up for the fact that I won't be around to vote. Maybe it's an irrational love of the EU, or a healthy hatred of bull****, lies and evil people getting to power on the backs of fear and confusion, but I'd like to see Lisbon pass, thank you please.

Since the government ****ed up last time, and they're not a group I'd like to fight alongside in almost any situation, I'm happy there's an unaffiliated bunch of people like me working in our interests. Sadly all I can do is try to explain Lisbon to my parents and maybe badger people a bit on facebook while I'm away...