Mary Lou McDonald: the most annoying person in Irish politics

bogman

Rebelheart wrote: »

If she ever did get into power she would be the greatest hypocrite of all.

Wouldn't be hard for any party to be better than that shower of gangsters supposed to be running the country at the moment, FF are the boys supporting builders/bankers, corruption, tribunals, demise of the education system, lack of effective health care, check youtube to see our MEP's signing on for expenses then taking the next flight home, could go on for the rest of the day
Mr O Keeffe (and he's not the only one) earns more money than Obama and Chancellor Merkel, our country is sick
Dont talk to me about Mary Lou

Erin Go Brath

HarryL wrote: »

Were we listening to the same programme? I thought three ganging up on one was very suspicious! There will only be three seats instead of four....looked like the boys had decided beforehand to cut her out!!

Did you not think the "lads" were hypocritical going on about her attendance in the parliament...have you never looked at the live broadcasts from Dail Eireann? Usually there's one TD talking to one or maybe two others and the rest of the chamber is empty...and don't they get an allowance for attending? By contrast the House of Commons is always packed. I never understand how the Irish people accept this.

I thought Eoin Ryan as a member of FF got off really lightly...by deflecting the agro onto the lady.
Mary Lou is entitled to express her opinions without subjection to such vitriol. I thought she was quite dignified in her responses.
She made good points re child benefit and cutbacks in education.
I thought Rodney could have done better and not allowed such an unbalanced attack.

Sounds about right to me. The bigger parties sticking together and demonising the small party who might upset their cosy cartel.

Voting for Fine Gael is just voting for Fianna Fail lite!

Mary-Lou is a great candidate and a genuine alternative to the old boys club who want to keep the cushy jobs between themselves.

junder

Souljacker wrote: »

Joe Higgins there's a politician who can truly be said to not be in politics for the money. You're easily impressed.


My family comes from south Armagh and from what I see there from the mercs, beamers and mansions they're doing a hell of a lot more than drawing an industrial wage. But I suppose given your logic money gained from smuggling diesel doesn't count. Forgive me but the fact that the leader of SF, Adams is very wealthy and SF pride themselves in being socialists are the very definition of smoke and mirrors.

Ironic really, thier wealth comes from the very border they are supposedly idologicaly opposed to. FYI don't know about Ireland but here in Northern Ireland Ireland David Ervine and now Dawn only takes an industrial wage, and david ervine certainly did not have any 1 million £/euro holiday homes, in fact he continued to live in the very same housing exec house he had always lived in right until he died

Terrontress

junder wrote: »

Ironic really, thier wealth comes from the very border they are supposedly idologicaly opposed to. FYI don't know about Ireland but here in Northern Ireland Ireland David Ervine and now Dawn only takes an industrial wage, and david ervine certainly did not have any 1 million £/euro holiday homes, in fact he continued to live in the very same housing exec house he had always lived in right until he died

There have been photos in the various media of Mitchel McLaughlin's house over the last few days and it looks like a standard Northern Ireland Housing Exec house. And I understand McGuinness lives in the same neighbourhood.

I don't think their representatives in the North are living in luxury.

A Dub in Glasgo

It seems some folk hear a sound byte from Jim Cusack and run with it convincing themselves that it must be true

kmick

kmick wrote: »

All I want to do is confirm in this one instance whether she is telling the truth or P. DeRossa is.

No Mary Lou supporters coming forward on this so I guess she lied then.

A Dub in Glasgo

Have you phoned up to speak to SF or MLM and ask them for the info you are after?

FTA69

junder wrote: »

Ironic really, thier wealth comes from the very border they are supposedly idologicaly opposed to. FYI don't know about Ireland but here in Northern Ireland Ireland David Ervine and now Dawn only takes an industrial wage, and david ervine certainly did not have any 1 million £/euro holiday homes, in fact he continued to live in the very same housing exec house he had always lived in right until he died

Some people can rightly criticise the fact that some in the IRA have used their position for personal gain. You on the other hand are a complete hypocrite considering whom Dawn Purvis is actually connected to, the UVF, who were and are a far greater shower of gangsters than any Republican organisation.

LordSutch

kmick wrote: »

On Saturday on the radio Mary Lou said it was untrue that she attended a EU vote regarding the publishing of MEP expenses but had not voted. P. DeRossa claimed she did not vote Mary Lou claimed she did. Someone was lying. Can supporters of Mary Lou confirm for me if she voted. She is either one of the smartest and most agile politicians I have ever heard or she is an out and out liar. I am reserving judgement - I am hoping it is the former and not the latter.

Well then, can any Shinn Fein supporters give proof either way, Yes or No ?

A Dub in Glasgo

Camelot wrote: »

Well then, can any Shinn Fein supporters give proof either way, Yes or No ?

See post 68

junder

FTA69 wrote: »

Some people can rightly criticize the fact that some in the IRA have used their position for personal gain. You on the other hand are a complete hypocrite considering whom Dawn Purvis is actually connected to, the UVF, who were and are a far greater shower of gangsters than any Republican organization.

Sorry but dawn is not and never has been a member of the UVF, no PUP members sit on any UVF army council, David Ervine, Billy huntchison were both ex-UVF long before the good Friday agreement and long before they were elected. David Ervine was actually liked across the political and religious divide. Moreover can you substantiate that the UVF are bigger criminals then the PIRA considering the PIRA nicked million pounds not so long ago, furthermore since you claimed to have been a member of sinn fein which means you were connected to the PIRA and therefore going by your logic connected to gangsterism, criminality oh yer and sectarian murder, so glass houses bricks and all that.

ardmacha

but she always strikes me as evasive, hectoring and never really having any strong command of the subject she is "discussing".

Like all Shinners she is big on complaining and vague on solutions.

Ironic really, thier wealth comes from the very border they are supposedly idologicaly opposed to.

Yiu are right. They should abolish the border and call their bluff.

Moreover can you substantiate that the UVF are bigger criminals then the PIRA considering the PIRA nicked million pounds not so long ago

There is no doubt that the PIRA were more efficient than the jokers in the UVF so bigger in that sense.

InFront

It amazes me how somebody can vote for a party who sells "IRA Undefeated" t shirts and other such tasteless terrorism memorabilia through their official website, a triumphalism not just condoning but in fact celebrating IRA terrorism. I just do not understand the mindset of wanting such individuals to represent this country in Europe??

Luckily for Mary Lou McDonald and her comerades, they can take full advantage of the freedoms that they did not afford to their victims throughout the Troubles on this island.

Erin Go Brath

InFront wrote: »

It amazes me how somebody can vote for a party who sells "IRA Undefeated" t shirts and other such tasteless terrorism memorabilia through their official website, a triumphalism not just condoning but in fact celebrating IRA terrorism. I just do not understand the mindset of wanting such individuals to represent this country in Europe??

Luckily for Mary Lou McDonald and her comerades, they can take full advantage of the freedoms that they did not afford to their victims throughout the Troubles on this island.

Absolute drivel of the highest order!

Who exactly are Mary-Lous victims for a start? I'd be very interested to know if you could enlighten me on this one. :rolleyes:

You have to ask yourself the question why do the majority of nationalists in the north vote for SF. If they were such horrible baby eating scumbags as you seem to suggest do you really think they could get 26%+ of the northern electorate where the vast majority of the troubles occured to vote for them?

Maybe just maybe people vote for SF because they stood up and continue to stand up for working class nationalists in the north, and throughout Ireland when all the other political parties, the British, Irish Governments and the Unionists turned their backs on them and indeed tried to demonise them.

kmick

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Have you phoned up to speak to SF or MLM and ask them for the info you are after?

No I was wondering if there was a way to look up the european union website but I dont even know the name or date of the vote.

Joey the lips

InFront wrote: »

It amazes me how somebody can vote for a party who sells "IRA Undefeated" t shirts and other such tasteless terrorism memorabilia through their official website, a triumphalism not just condoning but in fact celebrating IRA terrorism. I just do not understand the mindset of wanting such individuals to represent this country in Europe??

Luckily for Mary Lou McDonald and her comerades, they can take full advantage of the freedoms that they did not afford to their victims throughout the Troubles on this island.

This can only be said so many time before all interest is lost!!!!!!!

It amazes me that people assume that people who vote for sinn fein only agree with there past history rather than there current achievement!
Give people some credit. They are not one track minds!

jimmmy

InFront wrote: »

It amazes me how somebody can vote for a party who sells "IRA Undefeated" t shirts and other such tasteless terrorism memorabilia through their official website, a triumphalism not just condoning but in fact celebrating IRA terrorism. I just do not understand the mindset of wanting such individuals to represent this country in Europe??

Luckily for Mary Lou McDonald and her comerades, they can take full advantage of the freedoms that they did not afford to their victims throughout the Troubles on this island.

Well put. I think you speak for most people in Ireland, as well as elsewhere in Europe, there.

FTA69

junder wrote: »

Sorry but dawn is not and never has been a member of the UVF, no PUP members sit on any UVF army council, David Ervine, Billy huntchison were both ex-UVF long before the good Friday agreement and long before they were elected.

I never said Dawn Purvis was a member of the UVF, I said she was in the PUP which is inextricably linked with the UVF. Now you can hide behind all the bluster you want, but that fact remains the same.

David Ervine was actually liked across the political and religious divide.

What has that got to do with the fact the PUP is the political wing of the UVF?

Moreover can you substantiate that the UVF are bigger criminals then the PIRA considering the PIRA nicked million pounds not so long ago

The IRA were indeed a far larger and more sophisticated organisation than the UVF and of course this was also the case when it came to fundraising, the main difference being that IRA members never really personally profited from it. Loyalist armed groups on the other hand, are notoriously up to their neck in drugs and extortion; such to the point where the PUP could barely scrape a vote in the Loyalist working-class areas they claim to represent.

furthermore since you claimed to have been a member of sinn fein which means you were connected to the PIRA

The difference being I'm not a complete hypocrite and I'm prepared to say I agreed with the armed struggle and provide my reasons for doing so. Likewise I don't shy away from any issue. You on the other hand are trying to tell us the PUP practically never even heard of the UVF.

and therefore going by your logic connected to gangsterism, criminality oh yer and sectarian murder, so glass houses bricks and all that.

The difference again being the IRA weren't gangsters or criminals, and were prepared to fast to the death to demonstrate that to the world over; something members of Loyalist groups never had the commitment to assert when political status was removed. And sectarian murder? Wasn't Ervine and Lenny Murphy in the same organisation?

jimmmy

FTA69 wrote: »

The difference again being the IRA weren't gangsters or criminals

While some people in the republican movement no doubt profited from it, the point is most people would not equate the IRA with criminals and gansterism - they were worse than that, as most criminals and gangsters never did blow up women and children in restaurants, shopping centres etc etc. As another poster pointed out, why vote for a party who sells "IRA Undefeated" t shirts and other such tasteless terrorism memorabilia through their official website.

InFront

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Who exactly are Mary-Lous victims for a start? I'd be very interested to know if you could enlighten me on this one. :rolleyes:

Mary Lou McDonald has been a leading member of the Sinn Fein IRA variety show from a time when the IRA were still actively engaged in terrorism. As a member of the party leadership she not only fails to condemn IRA activity of the past, she defends it. In my opinion her deep involvement with a party that celebrates the IRA and her position of support for the IRA make her as despicable an individual as one might regard a British politician who supported and celebrated the July 7th terrorists for example.
In supporting IRA activity, McDonald has supported the stripping away of basic human rights and dignity, and represents an affront to peace in Ireland. Nonetheless, she and her party do not suffer for this, quite rightly being allowed a freedom of expression and tolerance that they have never shown. The victims I refer to are those whose death SF felt satisfied was deserved in order to oursue its and the IRA's eventually fruitless violent methods.

You have to ask yourself the question why do the majority of nationalists in the north vote for SF

Why do we? That is another issue for another day. I am talking about this jurisdiction, McDonald being a European representative of a region of the Republic of Ireland, not the North.

walrusgumble

Sully wrote: »

Well, I asssume your a SF supporter, so why not do what the rest of the political supporters do and try defend them? By ignoring it, you have confirmed what has been said about SF candidates.

what? actually insult people's intelligence and actually get dragged into a sparring match over utter s*hit£ that would not even be thrown at other parties in the south in response, to last two-three groundless comments. seriously though, what does refusing to catch the bait (the groundless comments made by above) say about SF candidates?



bertie was not called teflon for nothing.

walrusgumble

InFront wrote: »

Mary Lou McDonald has been a leading member of the Sinn Fein IRA variety show from a time when the IRA were still actively engaged in terrorism. As a member of the party leadership she not only fails to condemn IRA activity of the past, she defends it. In my opinion her deep involvement with a party that celebrates the IRA and her position of support for the IRA make her as despicable an individual as one might regard a British politician who supported and celebrated the July 7th terrorists for example.
In supporting IRA activity, McDonald has supported the stripping away of basic human rights and dignity, and represents an affront to peace in Ireland. Nonetheless, she and her party do not suffer for this, quite rightly being allowed a freedom of expression and tolerance that they have never shown. The victims I refer to are those whose death SF felt satisfied was deserved in order to oursue its and the IRA's eventually fruitless violent methods.

Why do we? That is another issue for another day. I am talking about this jurisdiction, McDonald being a European representative of a region of the Republic of Ireland, not the North.

tolerance ??? yes sir and ulster unionism has being, was and is the beacon of light in that regard. :rolleyes:

its a lovely thing to say when one quiete probably never set foot for more than more one week in the 6 counties.

I genuinely have no satisfaction in saying this , but if you genuinely believe that without the violence northern ireland would be in the more satisifactory position as it is in today, then you are very ignorant (which i doubt you are) to the daily drudgery of north of ireland 1960-1990's.


i always found it remarkably strange that in the two occassions that i can think of that Rev Ian Paisley appeared on RTE television ala Late Late Show, he got a massive reception (i would highley question anyone's intelligence if they said he had no part in the violence), and i highely doubt that was a rent a crowd, yet when people of sinn fein are on they get sneared etc, yet clinton, hume and blair had no problems dealing with them.

you expecting fianna fail and fine gael to say sorry for their acts during civil war??? no of course not, they got builiding and ripping people off to deal with.

InFront

walrusgumble wrote: »

tolerance ??? yes sir and ulster unionism has being, was and is the beacon of light in that regard. :rolleyes:

I am not sure why this keeps coming back to the internal politics of Northern Ireland. I can see the relevance of McDonald supporting IRA activity which largely focused on the North, but not why Unionism should come into it. Unionism is an issue local to Ulster. Here we are dealing with a candidate local to Leinster whose opinions on the IRA are not something I would like to be represented in Europe on our behalf.
FWIW, I'm no advocate for unionism either, not that it comes into the equation.

you expecting fianna fail and fine gael to say sorry for their acts during civil war??? .

Well neither party was around during the civil war, both were products of the free state. However, if either side ever celebrated or condoned civil war behaviour or past actions I would be shocked and I think most people would be very angered by it. Can you seriously imagine the FF website selling anti Michael Collins T-Shirts and glorifying irregular gunmen? That was almost ninety years ago.
There are still siblings, partners and parents of IRA victims mourning their loss of loved ones while the SF organisation and Mary Lou McDonald sell trinkets and openly celebrate what was this country's darkest hour since the civil war.

A Dub in Glasgo

InFront wrote: »

despicable an individual as one might regard a British politician who supported and celebrated the July 7th terrorists for example.

Or a politician who supported the slaughter in Iraq and Afghanistan or a politician who provides logistic facilities for said slaughter?

Nodin

jimmmy wrote: »

While some people in the republican movement no doubt profited from it, the (......)official website.

So, in summing up, "Boo, Hiss. Evil t-shirts".

InFront wrote:

Mary Lou McDonald has been a leading member of the Sinn Fein IRA variety show from a time when the IRA were still actively engaged in terrorism. As a member of the party leadership she not only fails to condemn IRA activity of the past, she defends it. .

But that doesn't bother quite a few of us. Its rather more honest than the mealy mouthed approach taken by many when backing US or British aggression.

Also, I'm fairly sure she left FF around 98/99 which would be after the ceasefire of 1997, which would make your timeline somewhat skewed.

InFront

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Or a politician who supported the slaughter in Iraq and Afghanistan or a politician who provides logistic facilities for said slaughter?

I am not talking here about parliamentary votes to go to war (nor condoning it). I think a more accurate comparison would be the British Labour Party selling pro war tat through official lines, Britain Undefeated in Iraq T-Shirts. That kind of thing. Most reasonable British people recognise that war was a mistake and are sorry for it on both counts. They don't go around celebrating the dark times.

But that doesn't bother quite a few of us. Its rather more honest than the mealy mouthed approach taken by many when backing US or British aggression.

Fair enough, I actually respect this kind of opinion because it's honest, and not the mealy mouthed approach you refer to which some people also use with regard to the troubles and to somehow 'excuse' their support for SF. There doesn't have to be an excuse of course, just not distorting history or sf party positions either.

walrusgumble

InFront wrote: »

Mary Lou McDonald has been a leading member of the Sinn Fein IRA variety show from a time when the IRA were still actively engaged in terrorism. As a member of the party leadership she not only fails to condemn IRA activity of the past, she defends it. In my opinion her deep involvement with a party that celebrates the IRA and her position of support for the IRA make her as despicable an individual as one might regard a British politician who supported and celebrated the July 7th terrorists for example.
In supporting IRA activity, McDonald has supported the stripping away of basic human rights and dignity, and represents an affront to peace in Ireland. Nonetheless, she and her party do not suffer for this, quite rightly being allowed a freedom of expression and tolerance that they have never shown. The victims I refer to are those whose death SF felt satisfied was deserved in order to oursue its and the IRA's eventually fruitless violent methods.

Why do we? That is another issue for another day. I am talking about this jurisdiction, McDonald being a European representative of a region of the Republic of Ireland, not the North.

tolerance ??? yes sir and ulster unionism has being, was and is the beacon of light in that regard. :rolleyes:

its a lovely thing to say when one quiete probably never set foot for more than more one week in the 6 counties.

I genuinely have no satisfaction in saying this , but if you genuinely believe that without the violence northern ireland would be in the more satisifactory position as it is in today, then you are very ignorant (which i doubt you are) to the daily drudgery of north of ireland 1960-1990's.


i always found it remarkably strange that in the two occassions that i can think of that Rev Ian Paisley appeared on RTE television ala Late Late Show, he got a massive reception (i would highley question anyone's intelligence if they said he had no part in the violence), and i highely doubt that was a rent a crowd, yet when people of sinn fein are on they get sneared etc, yet clinton, hume and blair had no problems dealing with them.

you expecting fianna fail and fine gael to say sorry for their acts during civil war??? no of course not, they got builiding and ripping people off to deal with. with the exception of labour and i think the greens, how many parties put a majority of their parlaimentary salary back into the party?

look in front the point i am trying to make is this: no we should not under no circumstances say ah its the past let sleeping dogs lie etc. but how can someone, born in Dublin, who was previously lets remember a former member of young fianna fail, be expected to answer personally for actions of others when even she would not completely understand or appreciate the situation many young lads, from both sides of the divide, were forced for whatever reason into military action. the hole previous bull of fine gael not talking to "terrorists" was a complete failure, even the Conservatives kept links and lines open, because actions like that, this is an example of why the peace took so long in coming about. People like fine gael let a huge number of nationalist / republicans down for not actively seeking a true all party response, regardless of the background of events

if this is the only stick fianna failers etc have when questioning motives etc of sinn fein, then my friend not only are they hypocritical they also seemed scared of any threat parties like sinn fein or sdlp might have in the south. not only that they obviously have damn all response to their comments. that then would be a sad day for democracy.

Its time to look to the future, thats what Good Friday/Belfast Agreement was about, thats why the European Convention on Human Rights was put into both jurisdictions (not completely in south of course lol)

the reality is, sinn fein and the provicinal IRA want peace and there is no threat from them of a new war. if provicinal sinn fein have any clout with the Real IRA which they clearly don't (ie Gerry Adams & Co) then they should be supported like the way they were by Bertie and Tony in brining about a ceasfire with the Provo's. Expecting party members who have or may have links and influence with them to condemn them is not going to help matters. do you realise how many times people like Gerry Adams have being threatened or preceived to have being threatened by his own people during the stalemates????????

jimmmy

InFront wrote: »

I am not talking here about parliamentary votes to go to war (nor condoning it). I think a more accurate comparison would be the British Labour Party selling pro war tat through official lines, Britain Undefeated in Iraq T-Shirts. That kind of thing. Most reasonable British people recognise that war was a mistake and are sorry for it on both counts. They don't go around celebrating the dark times.

Fair point. When Britain and the US went to Iraq, they were widely welcomed by many people there...remember the statues of Hussein being torn down etc. There was little or no resistance. Plus Britain could argue it was doing / finishing what it should have done after Gulf war one, when it drove Hussein / Iraqui forces out of Kuwait. British forces did not go around putting bombs in pubs and restaurants, its forces are accountable and work with the Iraqi government etc. Even though the British Labour Party does not sell pro war tat through official lines," Britain Undefeated in Iraq T-Shirts." etc, if it did ( which I am not advocating, but if it did ) , I think that would still be more morally acceptable than another political party selling ""IRA Undefeated" t shirts and other such tasteless terrorism memorabilia through their official website", as another poster put it.

Nodin

And thus way off topic we wander.....

jimmmy wrote: »

Fair point. When Britain and the US went to Iraq, they were widely welcomed by many people there.... .

Most commentators were taken aback at the general lack of enthusiasm.

jimmmy wrote: »

There was little or no resistance..

....in the first 3 to 4 weeks.

jimmmy wrote: »

Plus Britain could argue it was doing / finishing what it should have done after Gulf war one, ..

......they didn't even think that line was convincing in private.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article387374.ece

jimmmy wrote: »

British forces did not go around putting bombs in pubs and restaurants,
..

Estimates of Iraqi civillian dead due to allied action start at about 100,000.

Should you wish to argue the point further, please start a thread.

jimmmy

Nodin wrote: »

Should you wish to argue the point further, please start a thread.

No need; suffice to say that to many people it is still morally unacceptable that a political party should sell ""IRA Undefeated" t shirts and other such tasteless terrorism memorabilia through their official website", as another poster put it. No other party in the EC glorifies such terrorist violence.