Spiritualism and the Catholic Church

An CROI

I have been told that I should speak to a medium or spiritulist but I have also been told that this goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church and Catholicism in general

Are mediums and spiritualists compatible with the Catholic religion or is it going against the teachings of Church to seek out mediums?

Angie77

An CROI wrote: »

I have been told that I should speak to a medium or spiritulist but I have also been told that this goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church and Catholicism in general

Are mediums and spiritualists compatible with the Catholic religion or is it going against the teachings of Church to seek out mediums?

It states clearly in the word of God that such practices are not permitted read Leviticus Ch.26 Verse 27

Oryx

Angie77 wrote: »

It states clearly in the word of God that such practices are not permitted read Leviticus Ch.26 Verse 27

Its lazy of me I know, but could you link to the actual text? I already knew the churches stance but Im interested in reading that.

An CROI

One has to wonder why so many Catholics and Christians partake in Angel courses and Reiki courses and other new age practices that have become popular over the last few years.

An CROI

Oryx wrote: »

Its lazy of me I know, but could you link to the actual text? I already knew the churches stance but Im interested in reading that.

Oryx,

You might also check - for a Vactican view

www.vatican.va/.../rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

An CROI

Angie77

Hi there are many references in The Bible. Here are but a few:

Deutronmy 4:19
Do not be tempted to worship of serve what you see in the sky - the sun moon or stars.

Deutronmy 18 10-13

Do not let your people practice divination or look for omens or use spells or charms and dont let them consult the spirits of the dead. The Lord your Gods hates people who do thesse disgusting things.

Leviticus 19:13

Do not go for advice to people who consult with spirits of the dead

Oryx

An CROI wrote: »

One has to wonder why so many Catholics and Christians partake in Angel courses and Reiki courses and other new age practices that have become popular over the last few years.

Probably because they do not get sufficient spiritual sustenance from the religion they are officially members of. An interesting question would be why, but I think thats off topic right now.

Oryx

An CROI wrote: »

Oryx,

You might also check - for a Vactican view

www.vatican.va/.../rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

An CROI

Im getting a dead link there.

An CROI

Oryx wrote: »

Im getting a dead link there.

Try copy and paste the link into the browser.

An CROI

Oryx

An CROI wrote: »

Try copy and paste the link into the browser.

An CROI

I did.

Im also wondering what the churches stance would be on people who pray to their own deceased relatives for intercession?

BeatNikDub

One point an CROI. You say you have been "told" to see a psychic/medium which makes me somewhat uncomfortable about the situation.
I dont know the circumstances but whatever they may be and whatever you eventually chose to do make sure it is something you want to do so yourself and makes sense to what your purpose may be.

Take care,
Nikki

An CROI

Oryx,

Go to the Vatican website. www.vatican.va

Click on English

Use the search box for the term "new age"

Look for "Jesus Christ The Bearer Of The Water Of Life - A Christian" in the answers.

Hopefully that will work!

An CROI

Angie77

Oryx wrote: »

I did.

Im also wondering what the churches stance would be on people who pray to their own deceased relatives for intercession?

Praying to deceased Souls is different, when you do this you are presuming they are with God and will intercede for you, otherwise your prayers will help their release from Purgotory

An CROI

BeatNikDub wrote: »

One point an CROI. You say you have been "told" to see a psychic/medium which makes me somewhat uncomfortable about the situation.
I dont know the circumstances but whatever they may be and whatever you eventually chose to do make sure it is something you want to do so yourself and makes sense to what your purpose may be.

Take care,
Nikki

Hi BeatNikDub,

In fairness - I should point out that I started this thread last May and started the thread to open a fair discussion into the use of mediums, psychics etc. by Catholics and Christians - and also to encourage open debate in relation to the Angel "movement".

In hindsight I should have used quotation marks in the start thread. My BAD:(. Sorry!!!!!

I am a practicing Catholic and therefore won't be attended or seeking the advices or anything else from a medium.

If this thread is to continue - I feel it only fair that I make my own stance known therefore for the purpose of transparancy ---- I would (and do) discourage Catholics and Christians from seeking out and using mediums etc.

I hope this clears this up.

An CROI.

Oryx

Angie77 wrote: »

Praying to deceased Souls is different, when you do this you are presuming they are with God and will intercede for you, otherwise your prayers will help their release from Purgotory

I dont see it as different. Is the bible specific on this? The small bit of googling I just did brought up a link which said you shouldnt pray to dead saints, let alone regular dead people.

Angie77

Oryx wrote: »

I dont see it as different. Is the bible specific on this? The small bit of googling I just did brought up a link which said you shouldnt pray to dead saints, let alone regular dead people.

Could you post this link Please

Oryx

http://www.bible-knowledge.com/Praying-to-Dead-Saints.html

An CROI

Isn't it the case that you pray "for" souls and not "to" them?

An CROI

Angie77

By making a Novena or such like to a specific Saint we are not praying to them....... We are asking them to intercede for us before God

Oryx

An CROI wrote: »

Isn't it the case that you pray for souls and not "to" them?

An CROI

Im thinking of specific cases that we all know of and may have done ourselves. Youre going through a rough patch and you sit in prayer and ask your mam/gran/brother/friend 'please, please help me with this'. Or you get staunch catholics who see nothing wrong in saying 'I know my mammy is watching me now...' I just see a contradiction in that.

Without even getting into the contradiction of the priest I know of who practices 'New Age' beliefs.

Angie77

When praying the Rosary, we are asking Our Lady to intercede for us!

An CROI

Oryx wrote: »

Im thinking of specific cases that we all know of and may have done ourselves. Youre going through a rough patch and you sit in prayer and ask your mam/gran/brother/friend 'please, please help me with this'. Or you get staunch catholics who see nothing wrong in saying 'I know my mammy is watching me now...' I just see a contradiction in that.

Without even getting into the contradiction of the priest I know of who practices 'New Age' beliefs.

The contradiction is the same as the staunch catholic embracing the new age. It is happening - mainly due to mis-understanding of the Catholic Faith and its teachings.

I am sure there are a few priests who are practicing new age beliefs. I have also heard of some nuns practicing. All the more reason for clarity regarding the New Age movement.

An CROI

Oryx

An CROI wrote: »

The contradiction is the same as the staunch catholic embracing the new age. It is happening - mainly due to mis-understanding of the Catholic Faith and its teachings.

I am sure there are a few priests who are practicing new age beliefs. I have also heard of some nuns practicing. All the more reason for clarity regarding the New Age movement.

An CROI

So do you agree with the church that this kind of stuff is the same as communing with the dead and is 'disgusting' and 'an abomination'?

eddie73

An Croi,

If you are going to follow the Bible to the letter of the law, praying to saints etc even if it is intercession is forbidden.


I am not a practicing Christian. I always find it curious when the Church issues condemnations about the so called New Age on their beliefs.

By the same token, it is just the same as Maria Simma seeing dead people, Padre Pio likewise, the Rosary and Marian devotion and prayer to any saint for that matter. There is also the issue of praying to statues which is a huge part of Catholic culture and belief, also forbidden in the bible.

Without trying to sound like a bore, there have been no instances of yet of institutional abuse within the Reiki movement.

So live and let live. People, glass houses and stones comes to mind.

An CROI

Oryx wrote: »

So do you agree with the church that this kind of stuff is the same as communing with the dead and is 'disgusting' and 'an abomination'?

I agree that Catholics and Christians should not seek to use mediums or embrace the new age beliefs.

However my opinion is directed to Catholics and Christians.

Whilst I would hope that all people would spurn these things I accept that other faiths do allow and promote these things. As I believe in freedom of religion - I don't direct my opinions to people of other faiths or religions or those with no beliefs at all.

An CROI

Oryx

An CROI wrote: »

I agree that Catholics and Christians should not seek to use mediums or embrace the new age beliefs.

However my opinion is directed to Catholics and Christians.

Whilst I would hope that all people would spurn these things I accept that other faiths do allow and promote these things. As I believe in freedom of religion - I don't direct my opinions to people of other faiths or religions or those with no beliefs at all.

An CROI

I accept that your feelings are directed towards the people who share your faith, and not at the population as a whole.

I wasnt clear, but when I asked my question above, Im specifically referring to the example I gave of normal catholic folk praying to their dear departed family and friends, as mentioned earlier. Im interested in what you feel is the churches stand on that.

An CROI

eddie73 wrote: »

An Croi,

If you are going to follow the Bible to the letter of the law, praying to saints etc even if it is intercession is forbidden.


I am not a practicing Christian. I always find it curious when the Church issues condemnations about the so called New Age on their beliefs.

By the same token, it is just the same as Maria Simma seeing dead people, Padre Pio likewise, the Rosary and Marian devotion and prayer to any saint for that matter. There is also the issue of praying to statues which is a huge part of Catholic culture and belief, also forbidden in the bible.

Without trying to sound like a bore, there have been no instances of yet of institutional abuse within the Reiki movement.

So live and let live. People, glass houses and stones comes to mind.

Eddie,

I think you are missing the point.

One of my points is that if you are Catholic or Christian then the new age is contrary to your beliefs therefore you should not engage in these practices.

If you are not Catholic or Christian then, fair enough, engage with whatever you wish.

The main point is that a large amount Catholics and Christians are failing to understand that these practices e.g. the "Angel Movement" is contrary to their faith possibly because of the way in which the "Angel Movement" presents itself i.e. The Angel Movement is presented as part of the Catholic / Christian faith - when is most certain isn't.

An CROI

eddie73

The Angel movement like any other organized belief system is harmless until it starts to try to make money out of people.

I dont know if i am missing the point when I suggest that the Catholic Church issues rules for its members while adpoting double standards of Saint and Marian worship.

Angie77

Oryx wrote: »

I accept that your feelings are directed towards the people who share your faith, and not at the population as a whole.

I wasnt clear, but when I asked my question above, Im specifically referring to the example I gave of normal catholic folk praying to their dear departed family and friends, as mentioned earlier. Im interested in what you feel is the churches stand on that.

Most of us would prefer to belive that our departed loved ones have gone straight to Heaven, so joining in The Communion of Saints and so we ask for their intercession. " I believe in The Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church, The Cummunion of Saints and Life everlasting. Amen"

Taken from "The Apostles Creed"

getz

i am very confused with all this,but catholic church dose say,they believe in the bible,yet they miss the verse about jesus being the only mediator, regardless of who you believe is now in heaven,the bible makes it clear that we are not to pray to them,or to have contact with the dead,in anyway shape or form,jesus is the only one who can pass on our prayers,on jesus it says he will not share his glory with another, that means dont pray to no one expect him,because those people couldent hear you as they are still in the grave,after saying all this,and seeing the ghosts of the dead myself everything is not as black and white as religion tries to make out, on the rosery it was first adopted from the budist prayer beads same number of beads on the string by pope pius v in the 16th century,[not very christian]

Oryx

Angie77 wrote: »

Most of us would prefer to belive that our departed loved ones have gone straight to Heaven, so joining in The Communion of Saints and so we ask for their intercession. " I believe in The Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church, The Cummunion of Saints and Life everlasting. Amen"

Taken from "The Apostles Creed"

But I have countless examples of people who 'talk' directly with their loved ones, not via the apostles creed. And I ask, would the church see this as disgusting?