Is it time for Arsene Wenger to go?

pokerface_me

Don't know about you guys but i think his time has come to an end.

The football Arsenal are playing is complete rubbish, this team that he has is not going to win anything for the foreseeable future.Just watching Sky here and look at the fantastic stadium, loyal supporters and the dearest seats to any soccer domestic fixture worldwide.

If fabregas has half a brain he will be out of there this summer. Last trophy in 2005 is shocking for a team which considers itself one of the best in Europe. To me they are a average mid-table team going nowhere fast, under this French misfit.

Mitch Connor

you are wrong imo.

VinylJunkie

Dont be silly

PHB

If he can keep his players then no.

kippy

pokerface_me wrote: »

Don't know about you guys but i think his time has come to an end.

The football Arsenal are playing is complete rubbish, this team that he has is not going to win anything for the foreseeable future.Just watching Sky here and look at the fantastic stadium, loyal supporters and the dearest seats to any soccer domestic fixture worldwide.

If fabregas has half a brain he will be out of there this summer. Last trophy in 2005 is shocking for a team which considers itself one of the best in Europe. To me they are a average mid-table team going nowhere fast, under this French misfit.

In all fairness, the record states that they are higher than "everage mid table".
I dont really know what is going on behind the scenes at the club but money is a problem. Flamini was a huge loss, as was Hleb, not being able to retain big players is a major problem.
Arshavin looks like a great buy but thats about all he has been able to buy that have turned out decent YET. The defensive spine of the team needs review and established players brought in.
I do think Usmananov(SP) will put a significant amount of cash into the club after he takes control in the coming months. Whether Wenger makes good use of that money or not is to be seen.

I dont think firing Wenger would achive ANYTHING as yer chances of getting someone better in, who would be unsure of funds etc, would be slim.
There are signs that this squad arent that far of being a quality team, injury has hit them hard this season as well, it has to be remembered.

Soby

Needs to improve his squad with a few big buys...That 4th champions league spot is gonna be under threat next year..Everton,Tottenham and (maybe even Man City) the like will be having a real go at it

leninbenjamin

kippy wrote: »

I do think Usmananov(SP) will put a significant amount of cash into the club after he takes control in the coming months. Whether Wenger makes good use of that money or not is to be seen.

seeing as Fitzmann and Kroenke own 44% between them that wont be happening any time soon.

~Rebel~

Arsenal would drop down the league table if another man was in charge using the same money Arsene has used. He is the only reason they have a chance at challenging each year despite spending less then even lower half teams.

Mossy Monk

No.

Mmcd

Froms Arsenal's point of view NO
From Wenger's : He can do better imo

Aidric

pokerface_me wrote: »

To me they are a average mid-table team going nowhere fast, under this French misfit.

Ah here, cop yourself on. Wenger is a top class coach, widely lauded by those in the know. His philosophy may be a little rigid and as seasons go by trophyless it's being exposed even more. If he abandons his thrifty philosophy and goes in to the market for three experienced players to complement the young talent that he has then he will have something great on his hands.

Boggles

Question should be will Wenger stay?

He is 60 this year, does he have it in him to rebuild again and fight on?

Hopefully for the league he does.

pokerface_me

Nay

Kippy i see where your coming from, but they are nowhere close to Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea. The money is a massive factor but surely there must be something in the coffers for him to spend. And the players you mention that he has lost was a massive blow but the exodus will continue because a footballers career is short and they want to win trophys? Which Arsenal are failing to do big time.

Adebayor and Bentner on the bench against a big physical Chelsea defence does not make sense to me. Walcott is starting to lose his way, wouldn't even track Ashley Cole back today.

I think Wenger has done brilliant with development of younger talent but thats no gonna win you trophys either, 10 years ago when fergie done it maybe, but not today fans demand instant success.

Raskolnikov

Nay

No, but people need to realise that Arsenal don't have the financial resources to compete with the likes of Manchester United, Barcelona, Chelsea, etc.

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

Don't know about you guys but i think his time has come to an end.

Reactionary much?

Critically, the Arsenal board would seem to disagree with you there.

pokerface_me wrote: »

The football Arsenal are playing is complete rubbish, this team that he has is not going to win anything for the foreseeable future.

Did you even watch the game today? If Arsenal had anybody who could finish they'd have been 2-0 up at the very least after 20 minutes. When on form they play scintillating football and thats down to one thing and one thing only; Arsene Wengers propensity, perhaps stubbornly sometimes, for making the quality of football played of paramount importance. I will concede that without some astute additions of a defensive nature especially, you are right; that team as it is will struggle to win anything.

pokerface_me wrote: »

Just watching Sky here and look at the fantastic stadium, loyal supporters and the dearest seats to any soccer domestic fixture worldwide.

To be honest loyal supporters wouldn't have been leaving after 50 minutes last Tuesday. You stick with your team no matter what, in the **** or in the good times. If you're a Man City supporter you'll have witnessed them play in the old 2nd division (Now the Fizzy League 1) not so long ago to now where they're on the cusp of another European campaign and with serious financial backing. Exciting times. Some Arsenal fans, at least in my view are very laissez faire. The Emirates is pretty bland too, the atmosphere has been lacking imo over the last 2 years, not saying the Stadium isn't fantastic, it is, but the atmosphere struggles when the team do. By the way, Spurs have the dearest seats to any domestic fixture afaik.

pokerface_me wrote: »

If fabregas has half a brain he will be out of there this summer. Last trophy in 2005 is shocking for a team which considers itself one of the best in Europe. To me they are a average mid-table team going nowhere fast, under this French misfit.

If Fabregas has half a brain he'll get stuck in and try and give his all to the team and manager that gave him his big chance. Thankfully, the lad has the cop on to acknowledge this and while I accept he will eventually end up in Spain, he's not going anywhere for a while yet.

This 'French Misfit' is also part of a select group of four managers who have won the Premiership - Ferguson, Mourinho and Dalglish. Granted he's been desperately unlucky in the one competition he craves, the Champions League I have no doubt in my mind that but for Arsene Wenger, Arsenal would currently be scrapping it amongst Aston Villa, Everton and Fulham for 4th with the greatest respect to those teams.

Basically, Arsenal wouldn't be the club they are without Arsene Wenger. They would be as you said a "average mid table team going nowhere fast". The team he has is probably 4 signings from being capable of challenging for trophies on all fronts. I think he needs to realise the youth experiment isn't the solution and that a blend of youth and experience is needed. I do think he's coming around to this however after his comments following the Champions League Semi-Final. The summer will tell a lot to be fair but I'm not willing to write a great manager like Wenger off yet.

cson

Soby wrote: »

Needs to improve his squad with a few big buys...That 4th champions league spot is gonna be under threat next year..Everton,Tottenham and (maybe even Man City) the like will be having a real go at it

I actually think you guys are in the firing line too next year, theres going to be a lot of upheaval in the squad during the summer by the looks of things and if they don't bed down together well at the start of next season it could be interesting.

pokerface_me

Nay

Aidric wrote: »

Ah here, cop yourself on. Wenger is a top class coach, widely lauded by those in the know. His philosophy may be a little rigid and as seasons go by trophyless it's being exposed even more. If he abandons his thrifty philosophy and goes in to the market for three experienced players to complement the young talent that he has then he will have something great on his hands.

Aidric i don't buy into this rubbish of not spending money, you want top quality players you have to pay for them.Why didn't they give Flamini the wages he wanted, he was a top player and was let walk out the door on a Bosman, if thats top class management well i don't know??

OPENROAD

pokerface_me wrote: »

Aidric i don't buy into this rubbish of not spending money,

We have spent money.

Aidric

Are you just rehashing the debate on RTE after last weeks champions league game?

pokerface_me

Nay

Cson i did watch the game today and yes they could have been 2 up, but they weren't they got thumped 4-1 at home man and Chelsea weren't exactly at the races today either. I'm not writing Wenger of but i just can't see him bringing the club on any further than he has.

And as for the supporters that left after 50minutes yes they were wrong but when you pay big money to watch that crap and win nothing since 2005 it must get frustrating.

grames_bond

Aidric wrote: »

Are you just rehashing the debate on RTE after last weeks champions league game?

so what if he is? who have you managed?

Royale with Cheese

pokerface_me wrote: »

Cson i did watch the game today and yes they could have been 2 up, but they weren't they got thumped 4-1 at home man and Chelsea weren't exactly at the races today either. I'm not writing Wenger of but i just can't see him bringing the club on any further than he has.

And as for the supporters that left after 50minutes yes they were wrong but when you pay big money to watch that crap and win nothing since 2005 it must get frustrating.

This is the problem some people don't seem to realise. Yeah I'm struggling to see how Arsenal are gonna get anywhere near the title next season based on current evidence, but let Wenger go and the problem gets a whole lot worse.

Stop thinking of why Arsenal aren't challenging for the title anymore (serious lack of money seems to be the main problem), and start thinking how much worse it would be with somebody else in charge.

Wenger doesn't negotiate contracts with players, stop blaming him for Flamini being let go (somebody fúcked up royally there though, not the first time a decent player was let go on a free over wages).

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

Aidric i don't buy into this rubbish of not spending money, you want top quality players you have to pay for them.Why didn't they give Flamini the wages he wanted, he was a top player and was let walk out the door on a Bosman, if thats top class management well i don't know??

Our lesson today children;

1. Wenger does not equal the board.

2. The board decide wages policy

3. The board control money for wages and transfers.

4. The primary goal of any business is to make a profit.

Hence we see that by adding 2+3+4 we can categorically see where the control of Arsenals money rests with.

pokerface_me

Nay

Aidric wrote: »

Are you just rehashing the debate on RTE after last weeks champions league game?

Aidric no i'm not sorry if it sounds like that, but i think its fact, you want top players you have to pay for them and if you want to keep your top players you must pay them the same rate as the other clubs are paying their top players.

As i said in my last post i can't see Wenger taking this team any further than he has.

Chardee MacDennis

lol, no...

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

I'm not writing Wenger of but i just can't see him bringing the club on any further than he has.

Those two statements would seem to be extremely contradictory to each other tbh.

Edit: Especially when read in light of this;

pokerface_me wrote:

Don't know about you guys but i think his time has come to an end.

pokerface_me wrote: »

And as for the supporters that left after 50minutes yes they were wrong but when you pay big money to watch that crap and win nothing since 2005 it must get frustrating.

Your team is your team frustration or delerium.

OPENROAD

pokerface_me wrote: »

Aidric no i'm not sorry if it sounds like that, but i think its fact, you want top players you have to pay for them and if you want to keep your top players you must pay them the same rate as the other clubs are paying their top players.
.

And can other clubs really afford the money they are spending on transfers, have you seen the current financial state of clubs like Chelsea, man utd and liverpool?

Fuzzy_Dunlop

The problem I have with people coming out with these kind of reactions is that they assume that Wenger leaving + New manager = Instant success.

No one even considers for a minute who that new manager could possibly be that will create a whole new winning team. Especially given the limited resources available.

Kirnsy

no he shouldn't be sacked.not after what he's done for the club.

he has said he will buy a bit more experience for next season.something he admits the club needs.
today's match was a team with nothing really to play for. so there is no point in really reading much into it.

some one posted a list of injuries suffered by the squad in the arsenal thread i'll dig it out. its insane how many injuries we've struggled with.not an excuse but an explanation though. we should have bought another player in summer/winter.

im still a 'in wenger we trust' fan

invincibleirish

I would welcome Arsenal getting rid of Wenger, as would fans of most other clubs i'd say.

Wenger will make a few shrewd signings in the summer that i have no doubt and everything will be ok again. Arsenal can't expect success every season unless they spend the kind of money Utd & Chelsea have done but they are always there or thereabouts and are due a shot at the title again soon enough.

A few reinforcements to complement Arshavin, keep Fabregas, get rid of Adebayor and they'll be looking unreal next season.

cson

To be honest the injuries thing is getting ridiculous at this stage. Every season we lose upwards of 5 first teamers to long-ish term injuries. Something is obviously going amiss either through physio's or player conditioning. That has to change.

pokerface_me

Nay

playa3 wrote: »

The problem I have with people coming out with these kind of reactions is that they assume that Wenger leaving + New manager = Instant success.

No one even considers for a minute who that new manager could possibly be that will create a whole new winning team. Especially given the limited resources available.

Playa this is not a reaction to the last couple of games or months, i'm looking at the last season or 3, Arsenal have looked very very average this season. He has some quality players there and he is failing to get the best out of them.

Royale with Cheese

Basically Arsenal need a top class manager who is capable of building a title winning squad with a very small budget.

Ask anybody in the world who the best person for that job would be and they'll all give you the same answer - Arsene Wenger.

pokerface_me

Nay

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Basically Arsenal need a top class manager who is capable of building a title winning squad with a very small budget.

Ask anybody in the world who the best person for that job would be and they'll all give you the same answer - Arsene Wenger.

And he has failed miserably.

Royale with Cheese

pokerface_me wrote: »

And he has failed miserably.

Massive massive lol.

Chucky the tree

pokerface_me wrote: »

Aidric no i'm not sorry if it sounds like that, but i think its fact, you want top players you have to pay for them and if you want to keep your top players you must pay them the same rate as the other clubs are paying their top players.

As i said in my last post i can't see Wenger taking this team any further than he has.

what manager do you think would be able to turn the current Arsenal squad into title challengers? One's the realistically would go to arsenal in the summer if they did sack Wenger like you are suggesting.

As much better question would be: Is it time for Arsene Wenger to leave and find a club who are willing to match his ambition? I think he should unless Arsenal give him £30m+ this summer. Otherwise I'd love to see him at Real Madrid.

OPENROAD

pokerface_me wrote: »

And he has failed miserably.

Then so has Rafa, except he has spent big.Is it time he left, afterall Liverpool have not won a trophy since 2006.

Mmcd

OPENROAD wrote: »

Then so has Rafa, except he has spent big.Is it time he left, afterall Liverpool have not won a trophy since 2006.

Tottenham won a trophy only last year
They must then be third best in the league :O

cson

OPENROAD wrote: »

Then so has Rafa, except he has spent big.Is it time he left, afterall Liverpool have not won a trophy since 2006.

2007

pokerface_me

Nay

cson wrote: »

To be honest the injuries thing is getting ridiculous at this stage. Every season we lose upwards of 5 first teamers to long-ish term injuries. Something is obviously going amiss either through physio's or player conditioning. That has to change.

I agree with you cson, you have had some unbelivable bad luck, but this is where your squad needs depth and quality e.g Man u, Liverpool and Chelsea. The amount of games that is played a season you need a strong squad, and you need players that can fill in for you and not be a liability. Gibbs looks a fantastic player for the future but at the moment the guy is a nervous wreck.

Aidric

This instant success nonsense spouted by some 'fans', fuelled by the red tops, is a blight on the game.

OPENROAD

cson wrote: »

2007

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

I agree with you cson, you have had some unbelivable bad luck, but this is where your squad needs depth and quality e.g Man u, Liverpool and Chelsea. The amount of games that is played a season you need a strong squad, and you need players that can fill in for you and not be a liability. Gibbs looks a fantastic player for the future but at the moment the guy is a nervous wreck.

I'm seriously wondering did you watch the game today? Kieren Gibbs had a decent match, Silvestre is the liability imo.

pokerface_me

Nay

Chucky the tree wrote: »

what manager do you think would be able to turn the current Arsenal squad into title challengers? One's the realistically would go to arsenal in the summer if they did sack Wenger like you are suggesting.

As much better question would be: Is it time for Arsene Wenger to leave and find a club who are willing to match his ambition? I think he should unless Arsenal give him £30m+ this summer. Otherwise I'd love to see him at Real Madrid.

Chucky super post, i don't think he would be sacked but the ambition is not there you are dead right.

As for replacement, i think Mourinho would be back in the Premier League at the drop of a hat if a top job was available.

Royale with Cheese

pokerface_me wrote: »

Chucky super post, i don't think he would be sacked but the ambition is not there you are dead right.

So now it's the boards fault for not having ambition, and nothing to do with Wenger refusing to buy experienced players?

Fuzzy_Dunlop

pokerface_me wrote: »

Playa this is not a reaction to the last couple of games or months, i'm looking at the last season or 3, Arsenal have looked very very average this season. He has some quality players there and he is failing to get the best out of them.

I was gonna go into a more detailed response but lets just say i agree completely that the team has been poor this season... who do you get in to replace Wenger?

Wenger has shown even in the past few seasons that when he does feel the need to sign players, he generally gets quality. Arshavin, Sagna, Eduardo, and Nasri have all been very shrewd purchases I'm sure you'd agree?

What's is clear I think is that the defence needs serious work in the summer, and I think Wenger will now be aware of this now more then ever. Added to this I think Gazidis will improve things in regard to dealing with transfers and wages this summer, making things a bit easier for Wenger.

pokerface_me

Nay

cson wrote: »

I'm seriously wondering did you watch the game today? Kieren Gibbs had a decent match, Silvestre is the liability imo.

I did see the game and gibbs was exposed more than once, and had a nightmare against Man Utd. Silvestre is a spent force thats why Man Utd offloaded him, if you wanna challenge for Premier League titles and European cups, has beens is not the way to go.

OPENROAD

pokerface_me wrote: »

As for replacement, i think Mourinho would be back in the Premier League at the drop of a hat if a top job was available.

And he would do a better job with the financially astute way the club is run?

pokerface_me

Nay

OPENROAD wrote: »

And he would do a better job with the financially astute way the club is run?

Who knows?? Maybe he will maybe he won't.

My point here is the club isn't progressing anymore under Wenger its same ****e different day.

steod

No getting rid of Wenger would be madness.

Royale with Cheese

I could not see Mourinho swapping Inter for Arsenal. Managing a team with little money and a squad that needs improving is not an attractive prospect.

Even if Arsenal go on a 'spending spree' this summer, this net spend will amount to £25-30m maxmium. The same money United, Chelsea or Man City would spend on one player.