Is it time for Arsene Wenger to go?

flahavaj

Blatter wrote: »

Agreed.

They will be flying in a few weeks time, no doubt about it. When Rooney said he wanted to leave Utd last year, a rake of Utd fans and the majority of opposition fans were claiming terminal decline. They've shut up now and most of them have come full circle.


Things change all the time in football. Fans will always be fickle.

Its also worth bearing in mind he can't make any moves for players until their CL fate is decided on Wednesday, it has massive bearing on what players he can attract to the club.

Arsenal will be fine, they've sold big names before and replaced them well - Wenger is the master in this sense.

ColeTrain

Nay

Blatter wrote: »

Agreed.

They will be flying in a few weeks time, no doubt about it. When Rooney said he wanted to leave Utd last year, a rake of Utd fans and the majority of opposition fans were claiming terminal decline. They've shut up now and most of them have come full circle.


Things change all the time in football. Fans will always be fickle.

I don't know how you can say they'll be flying when they just don't have the players.

Wenger doesn't want to buy experience for whatever reason.
People go on about this nice brand of football they play but look what happened when they played Barcelona - they weren't on the same level.

IMO his time is just about up. He's gone too long without winning anything and it's down to his attitude. Arsenal should be challenging for major honours and that team has proved it is not up to it. Now without Fabregas and Nasri.

Radharc na Sleibhte

I voted last year, i may very well want to change how i voted in eight days.

mike65

Nay

What were viewed as strengths in Wenger are now seen increasingly as a weakness. His obsession with youth (10 million for Chamberpot as this summers Walcott) and obduracy about not signing a couple of seriously experienced "winners" could mean he ends up being seen as someone who took the club forward only to take it back again. When he took over in summer 1996 the club had finished the previous season 5th and only two years since winning the Cup Winners Cup '94. There is every chance of a 5th place finish in 2012 (and it could be 7 seasons with a trophy).

flahavaj

KaiserGunner

flahavaj wrote: »

Ha im one of Wengers biggest fans but couldnt help laughing out loud for that picture, classic.

invinciblePRSTV

mike65 wrote: »

What were viewed as strengths in Wenger are now seen increasingly as a weakness. His obsession with youth (10 million for Chamberpot as this summers Walcott) and obduracy about not signing a couple of seriously experienced "winners" could mean he ends up being seen as someone who took the club forward only to take it back again. When he took over in summer 1996 the club had finished the previous season 5th and only two years since winning the Cup Winners Cup '94. There is every chance of a 5th place finish in 2012 (and it could be 7 seasons with a trophy).

I don't believe for a second Wenger has simply chosen not to spend big money over the past 5 or so years. Clearly the powers that be at Arsenal will only sanction big money transfers where they consider it to be absolutely necessary like in the January window in 08/09 when it looked briefly like Arsenal would struggle to finish in the CL places.

Let's recall in times gone by Wenger gladly spent big money on fees and wages on your Wiltords, Pires', Campbells and Silva's, since the move to the new stadium Arsenal it's been pretty much a case of Wenger buying youth only.

That's why i said he should jump ship to free spending PSG. Why waste his time constrained by finances struggling to live up to his former glories when he can start afresh elsewhere with the financial muscle a manager of his talent deserves.

Mickeroo

I don't think he should be sacked, having said that I'd be open to him taking on advisory role and bringing someone else in to freshen things in the future.

invinciblePRSTV

flahavaj wrote: »

Arsenal will be fine, they've sold big names before and replaced them well - Wenger is the master in this sense.

Wenger was able to replace names like Anelka and Adams quite well, but that was a long time ago. To my mind he's failed abysmally to fill in the gaps left by the departures of Sol Campbell, Thierry Henry, Dennis Bergkamp or Jens Lehmann.

These were big players and a cornerstone of Arsenals early noughties glory days, and are the kind of players only big money could replace, which hasn't been forthcoming.

flahavaj

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Ha im one of Wengers biggest fans but couldnt help laughing out loud for that picture, classic.

Look at the face on him!

I think the world of the man myself and I'd back him to see ye through the current crisis, but that photoshop is gold.:pac:

flahavaj

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Wenger was able to replace names like Anelka and Adams quite well, but that was a long time ago. To my mind he's failed abysmally to fill in the gaps left by the departures of Sol Campbell, Thierry Henry, Dennis Bergkamp or Jens Lehmann.

These were big players and a cornerstone of Arsenals early noughties glory days, and are the kind of players only big money could replace, which hasn't been forthcoming.

Vermaelen and RVP are pretty decent players.

Lehmann wasn't all that tbh, their current keeper (can't spell his name :pac:) looks an amazing talent for his age.

The idea that you find like for like replacements for unreplaceable talents like Henry is silly anyway. United never directly replaced Keane etc - you find other leaders for the team (like they did with Fabregas) and you move on. Wenger has been there a long time and has regenerated the team more than once. Arsenal fans should trust him to do it again.

Rumours of Arsenal's demise have been grossly exaggerated.

invinciblePRSTV

flahavaj wrote: »

Vermaelen and RVP are pretty decent players.

Vermaelen is quite decent, as is RVP, neither hold a candle to either Sol Campbell or Henry in their pomp imo. Plus they're always injured, RVP in particular appears to be made of glass.

flahavaj wrote: »

Lehmann wasn't all that tbh, their current keeper (can't spell his name :pac:) looks an amazing talent for his age.

The polish lad? nah.

flahavaj wrote: »

Rumours of Arsenal's demise have been grossly exaggerated.

Their lack of spending has already caught up with them, Arsenal have went from being perennial title favourites 5 years ago to a team now who'll be doing well to stay in the top 4 places comes seasons end.

Mr. Presentable

I think his problem lies in that there is no value in the market when there are rich as feck clubs like Chelsea, Man C, Man U in their own back yard, and then the Spanish. It has also become harder to scout young talent that's not being scouted by the aforementioned as well. Wenger steadfastly refuses to pay over the odds for a proven player, but now looks like a gambler when he spends on youth no-one else wants.

He is becoming a victim of the sickness in commercial football that has turned small talents into big bucks.

flahavaj

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Vermaelen is quite decent, as is RVP, neither hold a candle to either Sol Campbell or Henry in their pomp imo. Plus they're always injured, RVP in particular appears to be made of glass.

Those two are Arsenal legends though. As I said you can never replace players like that properly , most people don't even try. Verm and RVP are nonetheless regarded as being amongst the best in the Pl in theri positions. It is only RVP's injury proneness as you say thast stopping him being one of teh best in the world.

The polish lad? nah.

Seen him play? The calls for an Arenal keeper aren't really that shrill anymore. He's phenomenal for his age and will be top class in a few years. Put that one down as Wenger bwing right yet again when all and sundry wanted him to go after the likes of Given (LOL).

Their lack of spending has already caught up with them, Arsenal have went from being perennial title favourites 5 years ago to a team now who'll be doing well to stay in the top 4 places comes seasons end.

These things are cyclical though. I would back him to build them up again. He shoud certainly be given the opportunity.They've been in the top 4 the last 15 years or something. He will build again. New talent will emerge. If FFP is properly implemented then Arsenal and United are by far the two clubs best set to dominate.

Things look bad, but Wenger is a visionary. Arsenal are in safe hands.

invinciblePRSTV

flahavaj wrote: »

Those two are Arsenal legends though. As I said you can never replace players like that properly , most people don't even try. Verm and RVP are nonetheless regarded as being amongst the best in the Pl in theri positions. It is only RVP's injury proneness as you say thast stopping him being one of teh best in the world.

It's not just those two i'm talking about. Whether it's defence, midfield or attack Arsenal ver. 2011 doesn't hold a candle to their previous vintages.

flahavaj wrote: »

Seen him play? The calls for an Arenal keeper aren't really that shrill anymore. He's phenomenal for his age and will be top class in a few years. Put that one down as Wenger bwing right yet again when all and sundry wanted him to go after the likes of Given (LOL).

Saw him play a few times last season, didn't stand out especially. But then given Arse's troubles between the sticks over the past years any keeper putting in a solid shift is probably going to be highly regarded.

flahavaj wrote: »

These things are cyclical though. I would back him to build them up again. He shoud certainly be given the opportunity.They've been in the top 4 the last 15 years or something. He will build again. New talent will emerge. If FFP is properly implemented then Arsenal and United are by far the two clubs best set to dominate.

Things look bad, but Wenger is a visionary. Arsenal are in safe hands.

He should be given the money whic he used to get. They got into the CL for most of those 15 seasons because in tandem with Wenger's 'vision' he had access to loads of cash to sign a quite decent squad made up of youngsters, solid pro's and world class talent.

Now he seems to be relying mainly on unproven kids.

Frisbee

Anyone still claiming Arsenal need a keeper are just trotting out old clichés and haven't actually seen us play recently. Szczesny is already a quality goalkeeper and he's only going to get better.

L'prof

Frisbee wrote: »

Anyone still claiming Arsenal need a keeper are just trotting out old clichés and haven't actually seen us play recently. Szczesny is already a quality goalkeeper and he's only going to get better.

Definitely, he's been fantastic so far. Doesn't make many mistakes and when he does (unlike our recent keepers) bounces back almost instantly! The best part is, we got him young, gave him a chance and now get to watch him flourish!

invinciblePRSTV

Frisbee wrote: »

Anyone still claiming Arsenal need a keeper are just trotting out old clichés and haven't actually seen us play recently. Szczesny is already a quality goalkeeper and he's only going to get better.

I presume you're referring to me. Of course I didn't say Arsenal need a new keeper, I said they struggled needlessly for years to find a solid no.1.

ColeTrain

Nay

flahavaj wrote: »

Those two are Arsenal legends though. As I said you can never replace players like that properly , most people don't even try. Verm and RVP are nonetheless regarded as being amongst the best in the Pl in theri positions. It is only RVP's injury proneness as you say thast stopping him being one of teh best in the world.

RVP is a great player but he can't give you a full season. There should be a top class player in alongside him to cover him.

flahavaj wrote: »

Seen him play? The calls for an Arenal keeper aren't really that shrill anymore. He's phenomenal for his age and will be top class in a few years. Put that one down as Wenger bwing right yet again when all and sundry wanted him to go after the likes of Given (LOL).

A few years? Arsenal are a big club with a huge turnover. They shouldn't have to wait years for a top-class keeper. They should have one in now!

flahavaj wrote: »

These things are cyclical though. I would back him to build them up again. He shoud certainly be given the opportunity.They've been in the top 4 the last 15 years or something. He will build again. New talent will emerge. If FFP is properly implemented then Arsenal and United are by far the two clubs best set to dominate.

Things look bad, but Wenger is a visionary. Arsenal are in safe hands.

He hasn't won anything in years. Why do you think he's capable of building a winning team again?
The Arsenal board should get someone in who will take a risk on a player and add some steel to Arsenal. Loyalty will win you nothing and Arsenal will are going downhill fast with Wenger in charge, that's being realistic.

flahavaj

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

It's not just those two i'm talking about. Whether it's defence, midfield or attack Arsenal ver. 2011 doesn't hold a candle to their previous vintages.

As I said teams go through cycles. They will come again.

Saw him play a few times last season, didn't stand out especially. But then given Arse's troubles between the sticks over the past years any keeper putting in a solid shift is probably going to be highly regarded.

See Frisbee's reply below.

He should be given the money which he used to get. They got into the CL for most of those 15 seasons because in tandem with Wenger's 'vision' he had access to loads of cash to sign a quite decent squad made up of youngsters, solid pro's and world class talent

Now he seems to be relying mainly on unproven kids..

We don't know what kind of money he has or will have tbh. If his hands have been tied by circumstances outside his control then its hardly his fault they've slipped is it? He should be priased for keeping them challenging for so long instead of criticised surely.

flahavaj

ColeTrain wrote: »

RVP is a great player but he can't give you a full season. There should be a top class player in alongside him to cover him.

I've already acknowledged his injuries. They're the only thing stopping him being regarded s one of the best in the game.

A few years? Arsenal are a big club with a huge turnover. They shouldn't have to wait years for a top-class keeper. They should have one in now!

They have an excellent keeper. Arsenal fans are delighted with him. If you think goalkeepr is the problem then you don't watch Arsenal very much.

He hasn't won anything in years. Why do you think he's capable of building a winning team again?

Because I rate him as an amazing manager. Arsenal would do well to find better. You have to put his lack of success recently in context with the fact that he's been up against the United macine, as well as a Chelsea club that have spent hundreds of millions in the last decade and now City as well.

The Arsenal board should get someone in who will take a risk on a player and add some steel to Arsenal. Loyalty will win you nothing and Arsenal will are going downhill fast with Wenger in charge, that's being realistic.

Suggestions please. I bet you say Martin O' Neill or something equally ludicrous.

invinciblePRSTV

flahavaj wrote: »

As I said teams go through cycles. They will come again.

Maybe, maybe not. My point is Wenger built his various great teams with lots of cash being given to him in tandem with his 'vision'.

flahavaj wrote: »

See Frisbee's reply below.

I corrected him on his assumption.

flahavaj wrote: »

Now he seems to be relying mainly on unproven kids.

Indeed.

flahavaj wrote: »

We don't know what kind of money he has or will have tbh.

Going on the past few years, probably not as much as he should have imo.

flahavaj wrote: »

If his hands have been tied by circumstances outside his control then its hardly his fault they've slipped is it?

Certainly I never said it was his fault.

flahavaj wrote: »

He should be priased for keeping them challenging for so long instead of criticised surely.

I'm not criticising Wenger, it's the exact opposite if anything.

flahavaj

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not. My point is Wenger built his various great teams with lots of cash being given to him in tandem with his 'vision'.



I corrected him on his assumption.




Indeed.



Going on the past few years, probably not as much as he should have imo.



Certainly I never said it was his fault.



I'm not criticising Wenger, it's the exact opposite if anything.

Then we appear not to have any gripe good sir.

ColeTrain

Nay

flahavaj wrote: »

They have an excellent keeper. Arsenal fans are delighted with him. If you think goalkeepr is the problem then you don't watch Arsenal very much.

Glancing at Wiki it says he's 21. That's a lot of pressure on him, what happens if he goes through a bad patch? You're back to Almunia. It cost Arsenal the Carling Cup this season and some saw that as where it went wrong for them last season.

So yes there is a argument that they have problems there.

flahavaj wrote: »

Because I rate him as an amazing manager. Arsenal would do well to find better. You have to put his lack of success recently in context with the fact that he's been up against the United macine, as well as a Chelsea club that have spent hundreds of millions in the last decade and now City as well.

United were there for the taking last season. Look at their away record. Chelsea went through a patch where they couldn't buy a win. You're making out they have been an unstoppable force the last few years. Hardly the case.

His record in recent times doesn't make for good reading. All good and well bringing players through but when you're managing a club the size of Arsenal you have to deliver trophies pure and simple. Wenger hasn't.

Look at the players he brought through. Fabregas is gone and won nothing.
Same as Clichy and Nasri.
Bendtner, Denilson, Walcott etc have not delivered. What's the point? Are Arsenal a club that want to delude themselves with a youth policy and play nice football with a good balance sheet? Or do they want silverware? If it's the former then Wenger is your man.

flahavaj wrote: »

Suggestions please. I bet you say Martin O' Neill or something equally ludicrous.

I don't know who they should bring in. But I'd have MON in there this season rather than Wenger.

flahavaj

ColeTrain wrote: »

Glancing at Wiki it says he's 21. That's a lot of pressure on him, what happens if he goes through a bad patch? You're back to Almunia. It cost Arsenal the Carling Cup this season and some saw that as where it went wrong for them last season.

So yes there is a argument that they have problems there.

He has already made mistakes (like every keeper) and the encouraging thing is he has bounced back very well from them. Goalkeeper is no longer the problem at the club, anyone that sees them regulalrly will tell you that. Judge for yourself. Watch teh guy play. He's a good keeper. Unbelieveable for his age. Almunia's days as number one are over. He's barely number 3 anymore.

United were there for the taking last season. Look at their away record. Chelsea went through a patch where they couldn't buy a win. You're making out they have been an unstoppable force the last few years. Hardly the case.

United have won four of the last 5 PL's. You have to put Wenger's lack of recent success in the context of what they've been up against. the last 5 years has arguably been the most successful on-pitch in United's history, 4 PL's and 3 CL Finals.

His record in recent times doesn't make for good reading. All good and well bringing players through but when you're managing a club the size of Arsenal you have to deliver trophies pure and simple. Wenger hasn't.

Look at the players he brought through. Fabregas is gone and won nothing.
Same as Clichy and Nasri.
Bendtner, Denilson, Walcott etc have not delivered. What's the point? Are Arsenal a club that want to delude themselves with a youth policy and play nice football with a good balance sheet? Or do they want silverware? If it's the former then Wenger is your man.

You'd swear he'd never won anything himself. Undoubtedly he has made mistakes and been stubborn in his beliefs at times but calling for his head is ridiculous. He is running the club within its means and ahdering to a particular pgilosophy to do so. In the long run, if FFP is enforced he will be the one laughing.

I don't know who they should bring in. But I'd have MON in there this season rather than Wenger.

Course you would. LOL. A Top 8 PL manager at best who's chief attribute is his ability to get the press to buy into his myth. He'd fill their team with overpaid journeymen and leave them financially bereft in a matter of years. GTFO tbh.

Chucky the tree

MON over Wenger. Tears are actually forming. :pac:

ColeTrain

Nay

flahavaj wrote: »

He has already made mistakes (like every keeper) and the encouraging thing is he has bounced back very well from them. Goalkeeper is no longer the problem at the club, anyone that sees them regulalrly will tell you that. Judge for yourself. Watch teh guy play. He's a good keeper. Unbelieveable for his age. Almunia's days as number one are over. He's barely number 3 anymore.

He is a good keeper but he doesn't have the experience. VDS did a great job for UTD last season and he was nearly twice as old. Keepers are usually raw around that age. Jury is still out.

flahavaj wrote: »

United have won four of the last 5 PL's. You have to put Wenger's lack of recent success in the context of what they've been up against. the last 5 years has arguably been the most successful on-pitch in United's history, 4 PL's and 3 CL Finals.

UTD have a World Class manager that's the big difference.

flahavaj wrote: »

You'd swear he'd never won anything himself. Undoubtedly he has made mistakes and been stubborn in his beliefs at times but calling for his head is ridiculous. He is running the club within its means and ahdering to a particular pgilosophy to do so. In the long run, if FFP is enforced he will be the one laughing.


Course you would. LOL. A Top 8 PL manager at best who's chief attribute is his ability to get the press to buy into his myth. He'd fill their team with overpaid journeymen and leave them financially bereft in a matter of years. GTFO tbh.

He hasn't delivered in recent times, that's the fact of the matter. Arsenal will pay the price if they don't remove him in my opinon.

I don't get the free ride Wenger has. Arsenal don't win anything anymore and that is accepted, why? Can you tell me. Finishing 4th isn't an achievement either.

Also you suggested MON, I can't see him getting anywhere near job. He's never been at a club with the turnover of Arsenal but I guarantee you he'd match what Wenger has done the last few seasons. He wouldn't play as nice football or have a team of under 21's but he would be as effective as Wenger's recent end results. He nearly got Villa into the Champions league but his squad ran out of legs.
He's also knocked out Barca in a European tie

Drumpot

I think Arsenal would be mad to get rid of Wenger . . If nothing else, he is building up the value of the club and getting it into one of the strongest positions in modern day football, to be successful over the long term.

When UEFA's new rules come into play, I dont think there will be a club better then Arsenal ready to deal with their financial constraints.

That aside, who exactly could replace him a do a better job ? (thats realistically availabl). The phrase "you dont know what you had until it is gone" comes to mind. Arsenal are competing with the likes of moneybags Chelsea and City and a hugely successful commercial brand (my beloved United) without spending any money netwise . . This is absolutely remarkable.

Granted I do think Wenger needs to get over his hangup about signing developed players, but I think apart from this Arsenal have the perfect manager playing the perfect brand of football. I know its easy for a United fan to say this, but perhaps Wenger is just unlucky that he is managing at a time when the greatest British manager of all time is leading a rival club to unparalleled success.

Theres nothing wrong with wanting success or your team to do better, the problem is usually the unreasonable expectations of the fans, not necessarily the performance of the manager.

doc_17

If they get rid of Wenger it'd be terrible for Arsenal. He will spend money in the next week and he will make Arsenal a better team again

Pepe LeFrits

It's been said for years that Wenger has been taking backwards fast but this is the first time since 2005 that it's been true. He's kept the club steadily bobbing between 3rd and 4th, indeed the last 2 seasons have been the first time since 2005 that he put up title challenges in consecutive seasons (such as they were), but this summer has been an unmitigated disaster the likes of which I've never seen and alone would be enough to sack most managers.

For years he's talked about bringing a group through from a young age and the value of the bonds they forge from that. Fabregas symbolised his entire strategy and selling him under-value after 6 years of winning nothing is a damning failure.

The season has already started and the team is in a shambolic state. The CL qualifier may determine income but the quality of the team determines the result and we're in a real danger of failing to qualify now. Not to mention the damage done in the league as a result of going into the first few games with half a squad.

steelcityblues

I'm not saying he should go, but that is the most resigned I have ever seen him, last Saturday.

flahavaj

ColeTrain wrote: »

He is a good keeper but he doesn't have the experience. VDS did a great job for UTD last season and he was nearly twice as old. Keepers are usually raw around that age. Jury is still out.

He's doing a great job for them. Arsenal fans more than anyone begged for a decent keeper. Now they've stoppe, because they have one.

UTD have a World Class manager that's the big difference.

So you agree Wenger is up against extraordinary opposition which can at least partly explain their lack of trophies? (Its also worth noting he has been erhaps that world class managers best opponent over the years, Mourinho aside). That same World class manager thinks the world of Wenger and wold laugh at suggestions that he be sacked and replaced with the likes of O' Neill.

He hasn't delivered in recent times, that's the fact of the matter. Arsenal will pay the price if they don't remove him in my opinon.

I don't get the free ride Wenger has. Arsenal don't win anything anymore and that is accepted, why? Can you tell me. Finishing 4th isn't an achievement either.

Because he's a brilliant manager. Its not accepted either, he should be doing better. But to suggest the man's head should roll is ludicrous. Finishing 4th btw is very much an achievement considering the financial implications and considering the resources the clubs that regularly win the PL have.

Also you suggested MON, I can't see him getting anywhere near job. He's never been at a club with the turnover of Arsenal but I guarantee you he'd match what Wenger has done the last few seasons. He wouldn't play as nice football or have a team of under 21's but he would be as effective as Wenger's recent end results. He nearly got Villa into the Champions league but his squad ran out of legs.

Look at teh state he left the Villa squad in. A squad full of of mediocre journeymen on ridiculous salaries. He'd ruin Arsenal slowly but surelywhile his mates in the media wax lyrical about how gave them a "backbone." The fact that you can't improve on him in terms of a suggestion of someone to succeed Wenger speaks volumes.

ColeTrain

Nay

flahavaj wrote: »

So you agree Wenger is up against extraordinary opposition which can at least partly explain their lack of trophies? (Its also worth noting he has been erhaps that world class managers best opponent over the years, Mourinho aside). That same World class manager thinks the world of Wenger and wold laugh at suggestions that he be sacked and replaced with the likes of O' Neill.

No I don't agree with that. Ferguson has built some brilliant teams and at the moment he's doing it again.
Last season they could hardly be considered great but Ferguson always gets the best from his players. He also isn't afraid to spend the cash when he has to.

flahavaj wrote: »

Because he's a brilliant manager. Its not accepted either, he should be doing better. But to suggest the man's head should roll is ludicrous. Finishing 4th btw is very much an achievement considering the financial implications and considering the resources the clubs that regularly win the PL have.

It's a massive achievement for the likes of Everton and Spurs who have broke the monopoly in the last few years. For the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Utd and Arsenal it should be the lowest they aim for given their resources.

flahavaj wrote: »

Look at teh state he left the Villa squad in. A squad full of of mediocre journeymen on ridiculous salaries. He'd ruin Arsenal slowly but surelywhile his mates in the media wax lyrical about how gave them a "backbone." The fact that you can't improve on him in terms of a suggestion of someone to succeed Wenger speaks volumes.

David Moyes would be a great choice, a gamble of course but one that could pay off. He's already guided Everton into 4th with low resources. Maybe it's his time for a shot at the bigtime.
Hand someone like Pellegrini 60million with that squad and I'm sure he'd do a great job.

GLaDOS

ColeTrain wrote: »

It's a massive achievement for the likes of Everton and Spurs who have broke the monopoly in the last few years. For the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Utd and Arsenal it should be the lowest they aim for given their resources.

5 teams for 4 spots, someone's gotta miss out

flahavaj

ColeTrain wrote: »

No I don't agree with that. Ferguson has built some brilliant teams and at the moment he's doing it again.
Last season they could hardly be considered great but Ferguson always gets the best from his players. He also isn't afraid to spend the cash when he has to.

How can you disagree that Wenger has had to compete with one of the best managers ever, then proceed to shower him with praise? Makes zero sense.

It's a massive achievement for the likes of Everton and Spurs who have broke the monopoly in the last few years. For the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Utd and Arsenal it should be the lowest they aim for given their resources.

So at worst Wenger has been doing the minimum expected of him (and has at times finished above the likes of Chelsea and United, clubs he has no right to be even competing with), but he should still be fired?

David Moyes would be a great choice, a gamble of course but one that could pay off. He's already guided Everton into 4th with low resources. Maybe it's his time for a shot at the bigtime.

He's a very good manager alright and I rate him very highly too. I do worry that no big cub has evern mad a move for him though. He's very very good, but Wenger is better. One of his faults is that when he has actually been a decentgiven money he has used it very poorly (Bilyaletdinov, ven der Meyde etc.) Spending money at a big club is a skill in itself.

Hand someone like Pellegrini 60million with that squad and I'm sure he'd do a great job.

Hand Wenger £60m and he'll do pretty well too!!!

ColeTrain

ColeTrain wrote: »

I don't know who they should bring in. But I'd have MON in there this season rather than Wenger.

:eek:

I had to read that twice.

I wouldn't have MON as a pot scrubber at a club let alone managing the team.

Mont

Nay

flahavaj wrote: »

How can you disagree that Wenger has had to compete with one of the best managers ever, then proceed to shower him with praise? Makes zero sense.


So at worst Wenger has been doing the minimum expected of him (and has at times finished above the likes of Chelsea and United, clubs he has no right to be even competing with), but he should still be fired?

No on is doubting that Wenger has had great success with Arsenal but that was years ago. Its not like he took over a small side, Arsenal had players like Berkgamp when he arrived. They were a top side, arguably a better side than they are now.
He's a very good manager alright and I rate him very highly too. I do worry that no big cub has evern mad a move for him though. He's very very good, but Wenger is better. One of his faults is that when he has actually been a decentgiven money he has used it very poorly (Bilyaletdinov, ven der Meyde etc.) Spending money at a big club is a skill in itself.

Every manager makes bad buys. You fail to mention Coleman @ 60k, Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta, Jagielka, Lescott etc so buying wisely is not one of his faults.

Hand Wenger £60m and he'll do pretty well too!!!

He has bought Arshavin, Chamberlain, Gervinho, Squllaci, plus Chamakh on a free but with massive wages, all recently. There are massive doubts over his transfer targets now.

ColeTrain

Nay

flahavaj wrote: »

How can you disagree that Wenger has had to compete with one of the best managers ever, then proceed to shower him with praise? Makes zero sense.


So at worst Wenger has been doing the minimum expected of him (and has at times finished above the likes of Chelsea and United, clubs he has no right to be even competing with), but he should still be fired?

Ferguson has shown him up the last few seasons, it's down to Wenger's shortcomings as well as Ferguson's brilliance.

flahavaj wrote: »

He's a very good manager alright and I rate him very highly too. I do worry that no big cub has evern mad a move for him though. He's very very good, but Wenger is better. One of his faults is that when he has actually been a decentgiven money he has used it very poorly (Bilyaletdinov, ven der Meyde etc.) Spending money at a big club is a skill in itself.

Hand Wenger £60m and he'll do pretty well too!!!

How do you know he's better? Moye's hasn't had a shot at the big time yet. His hands have been tied at Everton for a while now and look where he's kept them. You can add Beattie to that list btw! But I agree every manager makes mistakes in that regard.

Regarding the 60million, We'll see because he doesn't look like he's going anywhere soon. He should have a few pound to spend this week.

ScienceNerd wrote: »

5 teams for 4 spots, someone's gotta miss out

4 teams will get them. Missing out should be seen as failure, not success.

rarnes1 wrote: »

:eek:

I had to read that twice.

I wouldn't have MON as a pot scrubber at a club let alone managing the team.

MON is a good manager. Has done a job anywhere he's went. Probably not for Arsenal but a lot of PL clubs would have him at the helm.

Drumpot

Mont wrote: »

He has bought Arshavin, Chamberlain, Gervinho, Squllaci, plus Chamakh on a free but with massive wages, all recently. There are massive doubts over his transfer targets now.

I remember the season Sir Alex bought Liam Miller, Djemba Djemba and David Bellion . . Every manager has their moments!

Your transfers point is a bit erratic. Gervinho, Chamberlain and Chamakh havent had a chance to prove themselves yet, while Arshavin and Squillaci have. . That aside, its just aswell you werent making that point when Wenger had bought an unproven Viera, Henry, Petit, Van Persie, Fabrecas, Aderbayer, Nasri etc . . Its not his fault that most players are mercenaries who will run with the money at the first chance . .

Sure the only reason Sneider hasnt joined united to date is that united refuse to change their wage structure and offer him what he thinks he should get . . Its not like United dont have the money to buy it (contrary to ridiculous media reports) . . And TBH, I think it would be better for the game if the top clubs stopped offering players ridiculous money .. City, chelsea and those oil cash rich russian clubs fans may disagree, but I think its ruining the game . .

Mont

Nay

Drumpot wrote: »

I remember the season Sir Alex bought Liam Miller, Djemba Djemba and David Bellion . . Every manager has their moments!

Your transfers point is a bit erratic. Gervinho, Chamberlain and Chamakh havent had a chance to prove themselves yet, while Arshavin and Squillaci have. . That aside, its just aswell you werent making that point when Wenger had bought an unproven Viera, Henry, Petit, Van Persie, Fabrecas, Aderbayer, Nasri etc . . Its not his fault that most players are mercenaries who will run with the money at the first chance . .

Sure the only reason Sneider hasnt joined united to date is that united refuse to change their wage structure and offer him what he thinks he should get . . Its not like United dont have the money to buy it (contrary to ridiculous media reports) . . And TBH, I think it would be better for the game if the top clubs stopped offering players ridiculous money .. City, chelsea and those oil cash rich russian clubs fans may disagree, but I think its ruining the game . .

Welcome to reality and the world of Capitalism. Money talks. Almost every player is a mercenary, just look at Eto'o moving to Siberia getting €60k a day.

the untitled user

ColeTrain wrote: »

MON is a good manager. Has done a job anywhere he's went. Probably not for Arsenal but a lot of PL clubs would have him at the helm.

MON spent more money is his 4 years at Villa than Wenger has in 15 years at Arsenal and still couldn't get them into the Champions league. That's not to say MON's not a good manager, he is. But at CL level it takes something a little bit special to stay competitive year in year out (or £500m).

Drumpot

Mont wrote: »

Welcome to reality and the world of Capitalism. Money talks. Almost every player is a mercenary, just look at Eto'o moving to Siberia getting €60k a day.

I actually believe that the EPL and La Primera are close to collapsing because of it . . You need only see what havoc capitalism has wreaked on the rest of the world to see where football will end up if players wages and transfers keep getting inflated by rich billionaires looking to spend daddies money on new toys . .

Sure the ONLY reason Barca and Madrid can buy so many players is because Banks keep giving them loans! Neither club actually has a bean to spend but they are nearly in as much debt as United (whos debt has nothing to do with what they spend on the team!).

Can you imagine what would happen to the EPL or English league if Sky Sports collapsed ? The whole English game is now built around a TV station! Thats no differant to say, building up an economy with a property bubble! Its a disaster waiting to happen.

Ironically, whatever anybody thinks, I think Arsenal have it right (like the German league teams) by keeping their finances in check . . If there is a crash, they will be one of the few clubs capable of overcoming it!

the untitled user

Drumpot wrote: »

Ironically, whatever anybody thinks, I think Arsenal have it right (like the German league teams) by keeping their finances in check . . If there is a crash, they will be one of the few clubs capable of overcoming it!

I think this sums up the boards thinking myself. And personally, I find it hard to disagree with it, as frustrating as the football is.

flahavaj

ColeTrain wrote: »

Ferguson has shown him up the last few seasons, it's down to Wenger's shortcomings as well as Ferguson's brilliance.

You are simply confirming my point that Wenger has had the stiffest possible competition at the top of the PL. Finishing behind Fergie is no disgrace.

How do you know he's better? Moye's hasn't had a shot at the big time yet. His hands have been tied at Everton for a while now and look where he's kept them. You can add Beattie to that list btw! But I agree every manager makes mistakes in that regard.

I don't know he's better but its what I think based on theie careers to date.

Regarding the 60million, We'll see because he doesn't look like he's going anywhere soon. He should have a few pound to spend this week.

I would trust him to spend it well. If they get M'Villa and Hazard as is rumoured they'll have bought two of the best young talents in the world. Add in a centre back and the squad looks in very good shape with the likes of Frimpong, Gervinho, Miyachi and Oxlade-Chamberlian freshening things up further.

dsmythy

If Arsenal are not sitting at least in the top 6 come December then I'd have to say it would be time to change manager. Something tells me Arsenal will be there though.

flahavaj

dsmythy wrote: »

If Arsenal are not sitting at least in the top 6 come December then I'd have to say it would be time to change manager. Something tells me Arsenal will be there though.

Even if they make no more signings they still have better players and play better football by a long way than anyone outside the Top 6.

racso1975

I don't know the full in's and out's of what goes on at arsenal but either wenger or board members should go! Everybody know's that arsenal need'd to strengthen the squad this year! And they have done the complete opposite. Added to this the players purchased recently have been less then adequate! Not an arsenal fan but do have a soft spot for the club and really hate this situation they are in.

x in the city

pokerface_me wrote: »

Don't know about you guys but i think his time has come to an end.

The football Arsenal are playing is complete rubbish, this team that he has is not going to win anything for the foreseeable future.Just watching Sky here and look at the fantastic stadium, loyal supporters and the dearest seats to any soccer domestic fixture worldwide.

If fabregas has half a brain he will be out of there this summer. Last trophy in 2005 is shocking for a team which considers itself one of the best in Europe. To me they are a average mid-table team going nowhere fast, under this French misfit.

walking the ball into the net just doesnt cut it any more boys

Galvasean

Ask me again tomorrrow night...

cson

Tbqh I'd take our clubs situation over about 16 other clubs in the league. For sure you'd love to have the oil dollars or Chelsea or City or the commercial money United can pull in but overall I think we're not too badly off the poor pre-season excepted.