Is it time for Arsene Wenger to go?

Chucky the tree

pokerface_me wrote: »

Chucky super post, i don't think he would be sacked but the ambition is not there you are dead right.

As for replacement, i think Mourinho would be back in the Premier League at the drop of a hat if a top job was available.

Is Arsenal a top job though? Very little money available it seems and alot of players are rumoured to want to leave. I dont see Jose leaving Inter who are going to win Seire A again. If Jose comes back to the premiership it will be for Man Utd or even possibly Man city who will give him a challenge but not an impossible one with the amount of money they have, it will be like chelsea version 2.0. If I was Man City owner I'd break my bollox going after Wenger this summer. The damage Wenger could do to the premiership with a already good team with loads of money behind him is frightening.

Not to mention that as soon as Wenger leaves Arsenal I think alot of players will want to jump ship aswell which would really have them in alot of bother.

eagle eye

I see this thread was started just after the loss to Chelsea. LOL.

Arsene Wenger has done a brilliant job with less money than the other big four teams. He certainly needs to add to the squad at the back and in the centre of the park if they are to challenge for the title but they are not that far off.
You see players leaving for big money elsewhere, if Arsene Wenger left Arsenal I could see a lot more players following him out the door. It would be a sad day for Arsenal FC imo.

pokerface_me

Nay

playa3 wrote: »

I was gonna go into a more detailed response but lets just say i agree completely that the team has been poor this season... who do you get in to replace Wenger?

Wenger has shown even in the past few seasons that when he does feel the need to sign players, he generally gets quality. Arshavin, Sagna, Eduardo, and Nasri have all been very shrewd purchases I'm sure you'd agree?

What's is clear I think is that the defence needs serious work in the summer, and I think Wenger will now be aware of this now more then ever. Added to this I think Gazidis will improve things in regard to dealing with transfers and wages this summer, making things a bit easier for Wenger.

Yes his signings have been good, and yes his defence needs a complete overhaul excluding Clichy, Almunia has gone very ropey and will continue to leak goals, so maybe a new Keeper woundn't go amiss either.

Jazzy

pokerface_me wrote: »

To me they are a average mid-table team going nowhere fast, under this French misfit.

um... u do know they are 4th in the league? which is not mid-table

Kirnsy

steod wrote: »

getting rid of Wenger would be madness.

FYP

MisterAnarchy

Ridiculous question to even think about .
Wenger is a great manager.
If more clubs were run like Arsenal then alot of them wouldnt be facing bankruptcy.
Football these days is a business and Wenger runs Arsenal as a business .
Alot of big clubs could be bankrupt in a few years .

Fuzzy_Dunlop

pokerface_me wrote: »

Yes his signings have been good, and yes his defence needs a complete overhaul excluding Clichy, Almunia has gone very ropey and will continue to leak goals, so maybe a new Keeper woundn't go amiss either.

Ok now i know you haven't been watching Arsenal regularly because Almunia has been the most consistent player on the team this season. He made one big mistake against United and now he's **** again all of a sudden.

Gallas since he lost the captaincy was also been excellent and Toure has somewhat regained form. Silvestre is an absolute waste of space and should be shown the door. A quality CB should be brought to compete for the first team place alongside either one of them. But anyway, that's going slightly off topic

pokerface_me

Nay

Right guys so the general consensus overall is Wenger should stay, maybe Arsenal supporters are happy with 4th place and an average performing team, well as a Man Utd supporter i'm happy to see him stay, The Arsenal will continue to be outsiders and we will never fear a trip to The Emirates, it will just become another 3 points in the bag game.

I thought Arsenal supporters were ambitious people maybe i got it all wrong.

Cheers Steven.

Macker1

Nay

Raskolnikov wrote: »

No, but people need to realise that Arsenal don't have the financial resources to compete with the likes of Manchester United, Barcelona, Chelsea, etc.

They would if they were willing to change their financial policy. The Emirates is a fantastic stadium which is a large revenue generator. Yes it did cost millions to build but you have to balance your spending in order to achieve success in this day and age. Playing it safe would not please me as a fan and it obviously isn't making the Arsenal fans happy either.

Royale with Cheese

pokerface_me wrote: »

Right guys so the general consensus overall is Wenger should stay, maybe Arsenal supporters are happy with 4th place and an average performing team, well as a Man Utd supporter i'm happy to see him stay, The Arsenal will continue to be outsiders and we will never fear a trip to The Emirates, it will just become another 3 points in the bag game.

I thought Arsenal supporters were ambitious people maybe i got it all wrong.

Cheers Steven.

I think you've confused ambition with stupidity. No trophies = instant sacking, thank God the Arsenal board don't run their club like that.

You should probably go off and get yourself a job as president of Real Madrid tbh.

pokerface_me

Nay

Macker1 wrote: »

They would if they were willing to change their financial policy. The Emirates is a fantastic stadium which is a large revenue generator. Yes it did cost millions to build but you have to balance your spending in order to achieve success in this day and age. Playing it safe would not please me as a fan and it obviously isn't making the Arsenal fans happy either.

Macker as far as i can make out from the previous 4 pages is that Arsenal fans are quite happy to play it safe, they don't seem to be to bothered that they win nothing year after year. And if Wenger hasn't changed his ways by now he never will.

itsjaybud

herbieflowers

Didn't Arsenal run Man U very close in the league last season?

Okay, they haven't had the best of seasons - 4th place, two cup semi-finals. Not bad considering their awful start to the season, and some inuries to crucial players (which witht the quality of their squad is going to have an effect). All in all, they were on a huge unbeaten streak before this game - it'd be daft for Wenger to leave.

kippy

People with the opinion that arsenal should sack Wenger have very very short memories.
What were Arsenal like before he came, what has he done for the club since he came, how much money has he spent during his time there and how many WORLD class players have played for the team, despite the lack of spending?
It is NO coincidence that their drought of trophies corresponded with three things happening. 1. Chelsea coming into a sugar daddys hands, coupled with hundreds of millions spent. 2. Man United changing hands, with the a larger investment fund for players and 3. Probably most crucial, the financing and building of their new home, which should in the medium to long term ensure Arsenal CAN compete on at least one level with Chelsea and United.
Personally, and I've said this already, they arent THAT far off winning a PL, despite their poor season this year. They've lost KEY players, havent replaced them as yet and more importantly, have had KEY players out for long spells this season.
He could do with buying a couple of established players, but really he is competing financially with Chelsea and United for the transfer fee and wages, which as we've said is like p1ssing against the wind.
Usmananov, in my opinion is only a few months from buying the club, despite the other interests. The bottom line is Arsenal may need some of his cash to compete.
And again, who do ye replace him with as he will end up at a big Spainish club taking the best and brightest talents with him.

Kippy

PHB

If I was in Arsenals financial situation, the only person I'd prefer probably is Fergie, and even then, I'm not so sure.

pokerface_me

Nay

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I think you've confused ambition with stupidity. No trophies = instant sacking, thank God the Arsenal board don't run their club like that.

You should probably go off and get yourself a job as president of Real Madrid tbh.

Royale ambition yes, to have ambition and success you must make progress and Arsenal are lacking in both departments.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

pokerface_me wrote: »

Royale ambition yes, to have ambition and success you must make progress and Arsenal are lacking in both departments.

Just like leeds! Now i get it.

pokerface_me

Nay

kippy wrote: »

People with the opinion that arsenal should sack Wenger have very very short memories.
What were Arsenal like before he came, what has he done for the club since he came, how much money has he spent during his time there and how many WORLD class players have played for the team, despite the lack of spending?
It is NO coincidence that their drought of trophies corresponded with three things happening. 1. Chelsea coming into a sugar daddys hands, coupled with hundreds of millions spent. 2. Man United changing hands, with the a larger investment fund for players and 3. Probably most crucial, the financing and building of their new home, which should in the medium to long term ensure Arsenal CAN compete on at least one level with Chelsea and United.
Personally, and I've said this already, they arent THAT far off winning a PL, despite their poor season this year. They've lost KEY players, havent replaced them as yet and more importantly, have had KEY players out for long spells this season.
He could do with buying a couple of established players, but really he is competing financially with Chelsea and United for the transfer fee and wages, which as we've said is like p1ssing against the wind.
Usmananov, in my opinion is only a few months from buying the club, despite the other interests. The bottom line is Arsenal may need some of his cash to compete.
And again, who do ye replace him with as he will end up at a big Spainish club taking the best and brightest talents with him.

Kippy

Kippy nobody doubts what he has done for the club and English football in General, but a time comes when the best have to move on for the good of the club. Arsenal are not a feared club anymore, everybody who plays them fancies their chances against them home or away.

kippy

pokerface_me wrote: »

Royale ambition yes, to have ambition and success you must make progress and Arsenal are lacking in both departments.

This thing "progress" that fans appear to be obsessed with......its a bit like the demands for higher profits every year from shareholders....despite there being profits at all being a good thing.
Progress is a very tough thing to gauge. There is only so much of it which is self controlled, in any walk of life.
ie, this season, injuries, loss of key players,spending of clubs around them, spending of clubs below them etc etc.
Hes doing pretty well with what he has and he has the history and pedigree to give some belief that those days can return again with some outside help.
Progress being a firing factor at soccer clubs would mean more and more mangers out of jobs faster.

Pokerface, are you a fan, and what age are you, just out of interest?

Chucky the tree

pokerface_me wrote: »

Right guys so the general consensus overall is Wenger should stay, maybe Arsenal supporters are happy with 4th place and an average performing team, well as a Man Utd supporter i'm happy to see him stay, The Arsenal will continue to be outsiders and we will never fear a trip to The Emirates, it will just become another 3 points in the bag game.

I thought Arsenal supporters were ambitious people maybe i got it all wrong.

Cheers Steven.

You lost 2-1 to Arsenal at the Emirates this season.

Royale with Cheese

pokerface_me wrote: »

Royale ambition yes, to have ambition and success you must make progress and Arsenal are lacking in both departments.

What are you on about? Blaming the club for lacking ambition one moment, blaming Wenger for results and being unwilling to buy the next?

You've shown a complete lack of understanding for the bigger picture. Arsenal fans are not lacking ambition by wanting Wenger to stay on. We want him to stay on as he is the best man in the world for the job. You seem to be suggesting Wenger out = instant success, you could not be further from the truth.

Arsenal will struggle when they are strapped for cash and Chelsea and Man Utd are dropping £30m on players that they don't fully need. Not much the Arsenal board or Wenger can do about that. You think they should spend their way to the top? Go ask Leeds fans what they think of that suggestion.

Also worth nothing is that in the 5 years since Arsenal have won a trophy, the Premier League has got a lot stronger. Look at the Champions League back in 2002-2004, and then look at it now. Completely dominated by English teams. Arsenal aren't up against the top 3 in England in Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea; they're up against 3 of the top 4 in Europe.

kippy

pokerface_me wrote: »

Kippy nobody doubts what he has done for the club and English football in General, but a time comes when the best have to move on for the good of the club. Arsenal are not a feared club anymore, everybody who plays them fancies their chances against them home or away.

Arsenal havent been a feared club for a while, neither have Real Madrid,
whats you point?
I like to hear what solutions you have if Wenger does go, who would you like to see there and what players would yer budget allow ye to get?

cashback

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You lost 2-1 to Arsenal at the Emirates this season.

United have only taken one point from a possible nine on their last three league trips to the Emirates so not sure where he's getting the easy three point scenario.

I don't want Wenger to go but he does need the experienced signings this summer and I think he'll do his best to get a few.

I'd let Ade go, Bendtner has surpassed him this season. Then strengthen midfield and defence. Happy enough with Almunia in general.

paul150

Not many managers could have a competitive team challenging on most fronts with the resources wenger has had. once the mortgage on the stadium becomes smaller im sure he will invest more much needed money in the squad. i just hope van persie signs a new deal because to lose him would be a blow.

yabadabado

dont see why any arsenal fan would want to see wenger sacked.if he buys 2 experienced players in the summer(CB and MF) and with a full squad for the start of the season they will push all the way next year.think he will need to spend around 20-25million in the summer

pokerface_me

Nay

Kippy i'm a Man Utd and 30 years old. The gap between Utd and yourselfs is ever growing its very simple to see that you are going nowhere. I used to like the Arsenal of old but this team doesn't look like a team of winners, they lack drive and don't seem to give a damn when they get thumped.

Don't forget Fergie built a winning team from kids back in the 90's and a few quid, it wasn't instant success or anything like it, but he has mantained the success and kept the ball rolling. With Wenger its the same season after season and i just don't see it changing, sometimes you have to be brave to be successful and he is just not the man to take the club forward. He has done as much as he is going to do and i don't see that changing.

Why would you be so scared of a change at the top, it would be nice to see Arsenal back in the mix in the next year or 2 don't you think so?

cson

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Also worth nothing is that in the 5 years since Arsenal have won a trophy, the Premier League has got a lot stronger. Look at the Champions League back in 2002-2004, and then look at it now. Completely dominated by English teams. Arsenal aren't up against the top 3 in England in Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea; they're up against 3 of the top 4 in Europe.

That is an extremely valid point. Another thing I'd like to point out is that in reality there are only two prizes worth winning for a team like Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool; Premiership and Champions League. Lets be honest, FA Cup and Carling Cup do not hold an awful lot of value these days. I don't think that even if we had managed to win the FA Cup this year it would have been a successful season.

pokerface_me

Nay

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

What are you on about? Blaming the club for lacking ambition one moment, blaming Wenger for results and being unwilling to buy the next?

You've shown a complete lack of understanding for the bigger picture.

Royale the bigger picture is you have won nothing in years and don't even look close to winning anything. Back to the word progress

Galvasean

pokerface_me wrote: »

Why would you be so scared of a change at the top, it would be nice to see Arsenal back in the mix in the next year or 2 don't you think so?

As has been stated before on this thread, what manager could Arsenal bring in capable of doing a better job than Wenger on the current budget?

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

Why would you be so scared of a change at the top, it would be nice to see Arsenal back in the mix in the next year or 2 don't you think so?

http://www.junebisantz.com/Soon/InstantSuccess.jpg

Because it really is that easy! :rolleyes:

pokerface_me

Nay

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

.

Also worth nothing is that in the 5 years since Arsenal have won a trophy, the Premier League has got a lot stronger.

Exactly my point, everyone else has got stronger and Arsenal have stayed the exact same going nowhere.

Royale with Cheese

pokerface_me wrote: »

Exactly my point, everyone else has got stronger and Arsenal have stayed the exact same going nowhere.

Why do you think they've got stronger?

MONEY

God you really don't seem to be able to understand any of this do you? Your idea that changing the manager will instantly bring success to the team is just way off.

A number of people have asked you how getting rid of Wenger would improve the team's fortunes and you haven't answered any of them.

Galvasean

Maybe if we hired a manager with an infininate money cheat we might get better.

pokerface_me

Nay

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Why do you think they've got stronger?

MONEY

God you really don't seem to be able to understand any of this do you? Your idea that changing the manager will instantly bring success to the team is just way off.

A number of people have asked you how getting rid of Wenger would improve the team's fortunes and you haven't answered any of them.

Just 1 question, why is there no money??
And where did i mention instant success?? i said the club is not progressing which is true.

paul150

pokerface_me wrote: »

Just 1 question, why is there no money??

erm new 60,000 seater stadium maybe?

Fuzzy_Dunlop

When you think about it, it's not like Arsenal have even done drastically worse than Liverpool*. Further than them in all three cup competitions with Liverpool having a very strong title challenge(which arsenal had last year before falling away), but ultimately both have won nothing this season. Same could be said for Chelsea if they lose to Everton.


*Note to pool fans. Not trying to start a willy waving debate

Galvasean

pokerface_me wrote: »

Just 1 question, why is there no money??
And where did i mention instant success?? i said the club is not progressing which is true.

And which manager do you think could bring progress?

pokerface_me

Nay

playa3 wrote: »

When you think about it, it's not like Arsenal have even done drastically worse than Liverpool*. Further than them in all three cup competitions with Liverpool having a very strong title challenge(which arsenal had last year before falling away), but ultimately both have won nothing this season. Same could be said for Chelsea if they lose to Everton.


*Note to pool fans. Not trying to start a willy waving debate

Playa just because they've won nothing your satisfied, as i said earlier i thought Arsenal supporters were ambitious.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

pokerface_me wrote: »

Playa just because they've won nothing your satisfied, as i said earlier i thought Arsenal supporters were ambitious.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. What I'm getting at really is why aren't you starting a Benitez out thread, or a Hiddink don't come back thread

PHB

I think what people are also ignoring is that pretty soon Arsenal are going to be able to have a huge spending spree maybe not this year but the year after.

This summer, if Adeabyour and Clichy left, they'd probably pick up close to 50 million, possibly more.
They could then reinvest in the entire squad and not be massively worse off.

Wenger is managing a team that is changing stadiums. Arsenal run a tight ship, which is why they've already gotten a new stadium and lots of other teams haven't. Not sure what else you'd want the board to do. Yes it'd be great if they took no profits at all but thats a bit unlikely to ask.

Ultimately in the next 5 years Arsenal are a poor team in terms of transfer power. Wenger is keeping them in the top 4 with a tiny net spend. Beyond that, last year they genuinely challenged for the league.
What the hell else do you want from him?

pokerface_me

Nay

Galvasean wrote: »

And which manager do you think could bring progress?

Galvasean i don't know, i'd love to see Jose back in the English game and i think he would relish the challenge even with a budget. And he would have alot of respect from the young Spanish Players he is a legend in both Portugal and Spain.

I made my mind up about Wenger when Flamini walked for free, any Manager worth his salt would have fought tooth and nail to keep him, do you think he would have been let walk out the door at Old Trafford?? I think not!!

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

And where did i mention instant success?? i said the club is not progressing which is true.

Hmmm, you said change the manager and see Arsenal back in the mix in the next 1-2 yrs. According to your good self we are equivilant to a mid table side and going nowhere. I'm pretty sure going by your rationale to be *back* challenging for the title in under 2yrs would equate to instant success for this magical new manager. :rolleyes:

Point of advice; have a little read up about the club, take a look at the financial statements, player dealings and performances. Maybe then you might have a decent understanding of things as they are because what you're offering is no more than a barstoolers reactionary opinion which is becoming quite yawn at this stage.

MIN2511

Basically i don't understand the OP's point, do you beleive a new manager would improve Arsenal? How many world class managers do you think will leave their clubs to manage Arsenal? Arsenal finances are not looking good either, i beleive Wenger has done the best any manager can do in this situation. Liverpool, Chelsea and United are just better teams!

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

Playa just because they've won nothing your satisfied, as i said earlier i thought Arsenal supporters were ambitious.

Btw as far as I'm concerned the club has overachieved when you compare relative fanbase and financial size and backing to Chelsea-Pool-Utd. And this is down to one thing; Wenger. Otherwise as I've said we'd be mucking around with Villa, Everton, Fulham and City for Europe.

smemon

Arsenal just lack aggression. There was once a time when wenger would send his men out breaking legs and getting red cards all over the place.

These days the players just don't have the same bite and aggression. No vieiras or keowns to lead by example.

Utd had the same problem with keane leaving but they adapted. Giggs and Scholes were once pivotal players in utd's midfield, but they too have been replaced - utd do not really miss them when they don't play anymore.

Arsenal have never replaced vieira and they've failed to replace henry too... too many big characters gone and replaced with cheap foreign imports who lack passion and understanding of how the english game works.

They need more quality english players and more experienced players at the top level.

pokerface_me

Nay

cson wrote: »

Btw as far as I'm concerned the club has overachieved when you compare relative fanbase and financial size and backing to Chelsea-Pool-Utd. And this is down to one thing; Wenger. Otherwise as I've said we'd be mucking around with Villa, Everton, Fulham and City for Europe.

You basically are mucking around with the others, you are nowhere near Utd Chelsea or Liverpool and are not gonna be for a long time under Wenger. As i said before if your happy with 4th goodluck to ya, i'm delighted for you and as i said as long as Wenger stays the 'big' 3 have nothing to worry about.

yahoo_moe

smemon wrote: »

Arsenal have never replaced vieira and they've failed to replace henry too... too many big characters gone and replaced with cheap foreign imports who lack passion and understanding of how the english game works

Ah yes, it's a pity we replaced Monsieur Patrick Vieira and Monsieur Thierry Henry with, eh, foreigners.

Actually can we just sticky this thread? That way whenever someone new with no understanding of Arsenal's situation wants to put words in Arsenal fans' mouths*, they can add their 2c to the thread and the rest of us can just ignore it?


*probably when they lose a match, rather than when they beat Utd or Chelsea, say.

pokerface_me

Nay

smemon wrote: »

Arsenal just lack aggression. There was once a time when wenger would send his men out breaking legs and getting red cards all over the place.

These days the players just don't have the same bite and aggression. No vieiras or keowns to lead by example.

Utd had the same problem with keane leaving but they adapted. Giggs and Scholes were once pivotal players in utd's midfield, but they too have been replaced - utd do not really miss them when they don't play anymore.

Arsenal have never replaced vieira and they've failed to replace henry too... too many big characters gone and replaced with cheap foreign imports who lack passion and understanding of how the english game works.

They need more quality english players and more experienced players at the top level.

As i said before nobody fears Arsenal anymore and its Wenger that has done that nobody else.

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

You basically are mucking around with the others, you are nowhere near Utd Chelsea or Liverpool and are not gonna be for a long time under Wenger. As i said before if your happy with 4th goodluck to ya, i'm delighted for you and as i said as long as Wenger stays the 'big' 3 have nothing to worry about.

Hmmm 4 points behind Utd last year would seem to indicate differently.

You're trolling now and I suspect that was your initial intention as you've offered nothing of merit or substance to the debate.

cson

pokerface_me wrote: »

As i said before nobody fears Arsenal anymore and its Wenger that has done that nobody else.

God forbid it'd ever be the players that haven't performed.