Is it time for Arsene Wenger to go?

AnCapaillMor

I think theres more to the lack of signings than wenger not seeing the need and trying not to impede the young uns. I don't think anyone else could do as good with what he has. Altho seriously he has to bring in a defensive coach and some decent defenders.

gosplan

Hang on, upcoming FA cup final aside Chelsea didn't win anything this year or last year either.

Shouldn't Mourhino Grant Scolari Hiddink!!! get the boot too.

Oh, wait a minute.

In fairness, I think the recent farces at Spurs (Jol) and Newcastle (Bobby Robson iirc) have shown us that clubs who sack a good and successful manager because of some imagined divine right to a better finishing spot, generally tend to get what they deserve.


I'd suggest that if anyone wants to post a thread like this in future, they should make it:

"Should XXXX replace Wenger at Arsenal?"

Until you've got a very serious name to insert above, there's no point in asking that question.

MementoMori

Cost of Arsenal squad :£90m
Cost of Aston Villa squad :£90m

Hmmm

greendom

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

I think theres more to the lack of signings than wenger not seeing the need and trying not to impede the young uns. I don't think anyone else could do as good with what he has. Altho seriously he has to bring in a defensive coach and some decent defenders.

Defensive coach? That's a good idea - wonder if Tony Adams would be intersted..

Boskowski

Bayern would love to get him.
Franz Beckenbauer was quoted saying that he was the ideal candidate as they always wanted him and nearly got him years ago, but at the time it took Wenger to long to make up his mind and Bayern had to move on. The rest is history.
In the same interview Beckenbauer was also quoted saying that - although they may put in a bid for him - he doesn't believe Wenger will be tempted, as he seems on a lifetime project in London.
Me personally, I would love to see him in Munich, but I don't believe it's going to happen either. Also it seems that Munich are almost through with signing Louis van Gaal at this stage.

Xavi6

Hughes out, Wenger in please

Kirnsy

Tony EH wrote: »

Wenger's been one of the best managers Arsenal's ever had and one of the best top flight managers the Premiership has seen. Under Wenger, Arsenal have won the Premiership twice and have rarely been out of the top two.

The team may have been on a bad run of form in the last couple of seasons, this one being the worst, but there is a period of transition at play in the club.

The losses in midfield have been harsh and the defence could do with some strengthening (in mind and body). A new goalkeeper is essential too, as Almunia and Fabianski are simply not up to the job.

Arsenal's attack is fine, but their defence is awful.

In short, getting rid of Wenger would only compound Arsenal's problems, not solve them.

interesting post.

1998, 2002, 2004 = 3 times

almunia has been absolutely fine this season bar a dodgy moment.

their first team defence - sagna toure gallas clichy have barely played together all season due to injury.

i do agree though that Wenger is a top class manager and doesn't need to go.


id like to know how many times arsenal have had a full squad to choose from minus rosicky?

pokerface_me

Nay

Kirnsy wrote: »

id like to know how many times arsenal have had a full squad to choose from minus rosicky?

This is all down to the manager, far too many injuries to be a coincidence over the years, their conditioning is not right.

And as i said earlier i put any money we will have this same conversation next year, Wenger has done what he can there its all getting a bit stale and boring, time to freshen things up and some new ideas.

Just reading back through the posts and Arsenal supporters seem to give him full support. Why are you so scared of a change??

Frisbee

pokerface_me wrote: »

Why are you so scared of a change??

There is not a single available manager out there who would do a better job than Wenger.
I'd much prefer to see him sign a new contract than leave

Royale with Cheese

pokerface_me wrote: »

Just reading back through the posts and Arsenal supporters seem to give him full support. Why are you so scared of a change??

People have told you a million times why they don't want Wenger to leave and you've ignored them all.

Evil_Clown

pokerface_me wrote: »

Just reading back through the posts and Arsenal supporters seem to give him full support. Why are you so scared of a change??

Here is your theory
Sack Wenger + get ??????? in = success

As said before please fill in the blank

Fuzzy_Dunlop

pokerface_me wrote: »

Just reading back through the posts and Arsenal supporters seem to give him full support. Why are you so scared of a change??

You seem to be advocating change for the sake of change. This philosophy inevitably leads to a revolving door scenario a la Chelsea, Real Madrid, Newcastle etc. which doesn't help the progress of the club at all.

pokerface_me

Nay

Evil_Clown wrote: »

Here is your theory
Sack Wenger + get ??????? in = success

As said before please fill in the blank

I'd love to give you an answer to that question but i can't, but what i do know is that Wenger has done all he can ( why can't you admit this ) its same crap different day with him.

Whats the worst that would happen with a new manager next year, 4th again with no trophies which will happen with Wenger.

A fresh approach, look to get more from some pretty special players, turf out all the dead weight and money sucking wasters 1 or 4 come to mind.

Arsenal with 1 or 2 signings have a Premiership winning team no doubt about it, but with Wengers tunnel vision its not gonna happen.

UnitedIrishman

Don't think Wenger should go, but he needs a serious amount of money to get challenging for the title again. We'll say Arsenal's starting 11 is Almunia, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas and Toure, Nasri/Arshavin, Walcott, Fabregas and Denilson, Van Persie and Adebayor - They need at least 4 players there. They need two central defenders and a holding midfielder at the very least. And then you could question whether Almunia is good enough either.

If you look at yesterdays game against Chelsea, they created as many decent chances as the away side but just couldn't defend. They leave themselves wide open by just letting the back four defend against two strikers and midfielders.

If Wenger was given 40-50m this summer, it could definitely get Arsenal challenging again because I'm sure he'd pick up soem gems somewhere. But if he doesn't get it, well others may go out the door soon enough. If Arsenal suffer two more seasons without winning a title/European trophy will Adebayor/Van Persie and Fabergas leave?

pokerface_me

Nay

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Don't think Wenger should go, but he needs a serious amount of money to get challenging for the title again. We'll say Arsenal's starting 11 is Almunia, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas and Toure, Nasri/Arshavin, Walcott, Fabregas and Denilson, Van Persie and Adebayor - They need at least 4 players there. They need two central defenders and a holding midfielder at the very least. And then you could question whether Almunia is good enough either.

If you look at yesterdays game against Chelsea, they created as many decent chances as the away side but just couldn't defend. They leave themselves wide open by just letting the back four defend against two strikers and midfielders.

If Wenger was given 40-50m this summer, it could definitely get Arsenal challenging again because I'm sure he'd pick up soem gems somewhere. But if he doesn't get it, well others may go out the door soon enough. If Arsenal suffer two more seasons without winning a title/European trophy will Adebayor/Van Persie and Fabergas leave?

They do create enough chances but fail to convert them into goals.

Almunia is not good enough, the English want him because they to many dodgy keepers already here's another one for that list.

40 or 50million and he will head to eastren europe pick up another load of half wits that can't hack it in the Premier League yes he has had a couple of very successful signings ( most have moved on to bigger and better things because they grew tired of Wengers ways), but you don't here nobody shouting about the bad ones.

Adebayor, Van Persie, Cesc and 1 or 2 others won't hang around much longer if being runners up and 3rd and 4th are good enough for the supporters, these guys are top class footballers and want success, not the nearly but so far men.

When these guys link up with their International team mates and hear and see their success in respective leagues and your the nearly man, it becomes an issue.

As i said earlier if your happy to pay the highest ticket price worldwide to watch the nearly men, best of Luck to you.

Evil_Clown

pokerface_me wrote: »

40 or 50million and he will head to eastren europe pick up another load of half wits that can't hack it in the Premier League yes he has had a couple of very successful signings ( most have moved on to bigger and better things because they grew tired of Wengers ways), but you don't here nobody shouting about the bad ones.

I'm not sure why you are coming up with this statement ??
Eastern European signings for arsenal like Hleb and arshavin have been pretty good.
the players that have moved on for the most part do not play aswell as when they were with Arsenal
Pires, Ljungberg, Henry, Viera, Hleb, Flamini the list goes on

Xavi6

pokerface_me wrote: »

I'd love to give you an answer to that question but i can't, but what i do know is that Wenger has done all he can ( why can't you admit this ) its same crap different day with him.

So if you were on the Arsenal board you would be moving for him to get the bullet without a backup plan in mind?

Whats the worst that would happen with a new manager next year, 4th again with no trophies which will happen with Wenger.

The new manager isn't up to the task and they get reeled in by City, Everton, Villa and maybe even Spurs and finish outside the top 4.

A fresh approach, look to get more from some pretty special players, turf out all the dead weight and money sucking wasters 1 or 4 come to mind.

So basically break up the squad. Great idea, until you say the bolded bit below. How would that work?

Arsenal with 1 or 2 signings have a Premiership winning team no doubt about it, but with Wengers tunnel vision its not gonna happen.

Not a chance. They need at least 4 new players - 2 defenders, an out and out left winger and a central midfielder.

gosplan

pokerface_me wrote: »

I'd love to give you an answer to that question but i can't, but what i do know is that Wenger has done all he can ( why can't you admit this ) its same crap different day with him.

I'd like you to explain this. How do you know that Wenger has done all he can at Arsenal? Please go into as much detail as you like.

everdead.ie

Nay

From an arsenal point of view no
from a spurs point of view yes definitely apart from David Moyes I don't think anyone could do as good a job as he has done.

Savman

Yeah...YEAH...SACK WENGER :mad:







Please send him to Randy, Villa Park, Aston, Birmingham. Registered post only.

onemorechance

Sven-Göran Eriksson is unemployed! Noone should be wishing that their teams manager should get sacked while he is lurking around! Especially Arsenal fans.

Arsene Wenger is still one of the best managers around and to be calling for his sacking is completely stupid.



Arsenal R.I.P.

Chucky the tree

From reading most of your posts Pokerface this is what I am always reminded of.

premierstone

Oh where to begin only just seen this thread at tbh its the most redic thing I've seen in a long time OP you obv. have very little understanding of......... well anything tbh I see 8 people have voted yes so I assume thats the OP, probably 3 Spurs fans and Irelands 4 victims of swine flu :rolleyes:

everdead.ie

Nay

premierstone wrote: »

well anything tbh I see 8 people have voted yes so I assume thats the OP, probably 7 Spurs fans :rolleyes:

yup nailed it on the head i'd say

blinding

For most of the time that Arsene Wenger has been at Arsenal the only difference between Arsenal and Spurs is the fact that Wenger was at Arsenal.

If you look at the downs (mostly downs) and ups of Spurs then Arsenal fans should be grateful that they have had Wenger during this period.

Okay maybe he should have bought some big name players down the years and he most definitely should do it this summer if this does not bankrupt the club. I did dispair when he bought Silvestre (a player that could not hold down a french centre back spot during a period that France had atrocious centre backs, after their glory years) but all in all Wenger has made and saved fortunes for Arsenal in the transfer market.

It is now time to invest some of these fortunes in established players as nobody can be good enough and lucky enough to unearth gold in young players all of the time.

pokerface_me

Nay

blinding wrote: »

It is now time to invest some of these fortunes in established players as nobody can be good enough and lucky enough to unearth gold in young players all of the time.

But they have no money according to every supporter here?

Look guys keep Wenger keep your 4th place keep losing your stars year after year....all this is fact, keep paying huge money to watch rubbish, keep believing the board that there is no money, guys just keep believing because thats all you have.......i'm off now to plan a Premier league party a Champions League Final night out look at my pictures of the world club championship, European Cup, Premier league Trophy and yes all for half the price of a ticket to the Emirates to watch the nearly men and the maestro Wenger and an empty Trophy cabinet.

Chucky the tree

pokerface_me wrote: »

But they have no money according to every supporter here?

Look guys keep Wenger keep your 4th place keep losing your stars year after year....all this is fact, keep paying huge money to watch rubbish, keep believing the board that there is no money, guys just keep believing because thats all you have.......i'm off now to plan a Premier league party a Champions League Final night out look at my pictures of the world club championship, European Cup, Premier league Trophy and yes all for half the price of a ticket to the Emirates to watch the nearly men and the maestro Wenger and an empty Trophy cabinet.

I bet you were a Chelsea fan two years ago.

pokerface_me

Nay

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I bet you were a Chelsea fan two years ago.

No United fan for 20 years, Season ticket holder from 2001-2006, marriage and kids forced me to give this up after that, and currently a season ticket holder with Shamrock Rovers.

My argument about Wenger is that he is not going to bring success in the near future and the current Arsenal stars will walk....if Fabregas leaves it will be the nail in the coffin for Wenger.

pokerface_me

Nay

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I bet you were a Chelsea fan two years ago.

Chucky show me where in my post i am wrong or inaccurate.

kippy

I am going to report this topic and suggest that it be closed.
The OP has been asked multiple times to give a viable option to wenger and what he sees happening at the club should that viable option decide he would be happy to work at Arsenal.
This hasnt been forthcoming and is it appears this post is somewhat of a windup....
Kippy

Galvasean

pokerface_me wrote: »

Look guys keep Wenger keep your 4th place keep losing your stars year after year....all this is fact, keep paying huge money to watch rubbish, keep believing the board that there is no money, guys just keep believing because thats all you have.......i'm off now to plan a Premier league party a Champions League Final night out look at my pictures of the world club championship, European Cup, Premier league Trophy and yes all for half the price of a ticket to the Emirates to watch the nearly men and the maestro Wenger and an empty Trophy cabinet.

The fact that you support a successful club ads absolutely no weight to your argument whatsoever.

There were people who said United would achieve nothing with Fergie in charge. Were you one of them?

Royale with Cheese

kippy wrote: »

I am going to report this topic and suggest that it be closed.
The OP has been asked multiple times to give a viable option to wenger and what he sees happening at the club should that viable option decide he would be happy to work at Arsenal.
This hasnt been forthcoming and is it appears this post is somewhat of a windup....
Kippy

Have to agree. Can't be anything more than a troll at this stage. OP ignores any valid point made against him and just keeps spouting the same shíte over and over again. He would made the poll himself to begin with if he actually thought anybody was going to agree with him.

Galvasean

pokerface_me wrote: »

My argument about Wenger is that he is not going to bring success in the near future and the current Arsenal stars will walk....if Fabregas leaves it will be the nail in the coffin for Wenger.

You think changing manager would bring success in the near future?
Also, Fabregas has said he will leave if Wenger does so the second part of your post is moot.

pokerface_me

Nay

Galvasean wrote: »

The fact that you support a successful club ads absolutely no weight to your argument whatsoever.

There were people who said United would achieve nothing with Fergie in charge. Were you one of them?

My argument is Arsenal have the tools to be Very successful and Wenger is just not delivering.

Galvasean

me wrote:

The fact that you support a successful club ads absolutely no weight to your argument whatsoever.

There were people who said United would achieve nothing with Fergie in charge. Were you one of them?

pokerface_me wrote: »

My argument is Arsenal have the tools to be Very successful and Wenger is just not delivering.

How the heck is that supposed to be an answer to my question?

pokerface_me

Nay

Galvasean wrote: »

You think changing manager would bring success in the near future?
Also, Fabregas has said he will leave if Wenger does so the second part of your post is moot.

Yes i do, Wenger idea's are not working the proof is in the pudding this year.

A fresh approach new ideas, and get them players performing i always worry when players come off the pitch at full time, and don't look dissapointed that they've just been hammered.

Chucky the tree

pokerface_me wrote: »

Chucky show me where in my post i am wrong or inaccurate.

Everyone has done to nearly all of your posts but you just ignore them and instead come back with your usual troll like posts "Well if Arsenal fans like losing blah blah blah"

pokerface_me wrote: »

My argument is Arsenal have the tools to be Very successful and Wenger is just not delivering.

So you think the current Arsenal squad is good enough to win the league and CL? :pac:

carlop

pokerface_me wrote: »

But they have no money according to every supporter here?

Look guys keep Wenger keep your 4th place keep losing your stars year after year....all this is fact, keep paying huge money to watch rubbish, keep believing the board that there is no money, guys just keep believing because thats all you have.......i'm off now to plan a Premier league party a Champions League Final night out look at my pictures of the world club championship, European Cup, Premier league Trophy and yes all for half the price of a ticket to the Emirates to watch the nearly men and the maestro Wenger and an empty Trophy cabinet.

I take it from this that you are a United fan, like myself. Surely you should then understand the merit of giving a mangaer time to build a team, especially when that manager has a proven track record at that club.

I suppose you also thought Ferguson should have been sacked at some point between 2003 and 2007, when we went three years without major silverware?

Arsenal are building a formidable team that is only one or two pieces away from being serious contenders again, much as United did in that four-year period. This season they have been desperately unlucky with injuries but still made it to the CL semi-final and retained fourth place in the league.

Last season, they came far closer to winning the league title than the records would have you believe, and had they not endured that horrible day against Birmingham when Eduardo broke his leg and Gallas went insane, who knows what may have happened.

Those who think Wenger should be fired are probably the same people who think Barcelona are sh1t and will be destroyed in the CL final on the basis of two matches against Chelsea, and would be better off supporting Real Madrid, a club that shares their impulsive desire for immediate, but ultimately worthless change.

I for one would love to see Wenger fired, because I remember the feeling of helplessness and begrudging awe I would get watching Arsenal go unbeaten in 03/04.

pokerface_me

Nay

Galvasean wrote: »

How the heck is that supposed to be an answer to my question?

Sorry didn't see the Question, no i wasn't one of the people because United weren't winning much at the time the expectation wasn't there.

With Arsenal 2009 the expectation is there, and Wenger is not delivering.

pokerface_me

Nay

carlop wrote: »

I for one would love to see Wenger fired, because I remember the feeling of helplessness and begrudging awe I would get watching Arsenal go unbeaten in 03/04.

Yes is was gut wrenching back in 03/04 but we are heading into 09/10 next season, we all can't live on what we done in the past you have to deliver and Arsenal fans that go week in week out to games demand that.

GuanYin

pokerface_me wrote: »

Sorry didn't see the Question, no i wasn't one of the people because United weren't winning much at the time the expectation wasn't there.

With Arsenal 2009 the expectation is there, and Wenger is not delivering.

I don't think anyone realistically expected Arsenal to win the league this year, or indeed last year when they started so strongly.

The fact is that Arsenal run a business model that does not allow for buying success.

To some extent, every other successful team/manager in the last 20 years has bought their success. Blackburn, United, Chelsea are all on a loss.

Arsenal essentially run at a profit and that is their downfall. Had they avoided injury, they would have competed at a higher level. Had they a stronger squad, they would have competed at a higher level.

Wenger is in a dilemma in that regard. He knows that throwing money at a problem is only a short term solution. Sure he's refused to buy a big name, but unless you have 50 million to spend every year, as United and Chelsea and Liverpool have, buying a single big name as a once off, won't change your team. Instead, Wenger has focussed on developing young players, it has worked in the past but only when they keep their top players fit.

That hasn't happened and the young players are coming in and being judged sooner than Wenger would like IMO.

I think now, they are at a crossroads. The board and shareholders have realized that Arsenal need to invest for loss if they are going to win the league. They have committed to buy 2+ key players this summer which will strengthen their first team. Should that happen they will still IMO be relying very heavily on the developing players coming through.

What may be required is investing heavily in the team for a short term loss and *then* reverting to their youth policy.

Whatever way you look at it, the problems at Arsenal are 90% the boards fault and 10% Wenger's fault. The way the Arsenal board run the club, there is no manager that could do what Wenger has done in terms of club success.

Mr Alan

GY-i don't have figures to hand, but iirc, Rafa has spent about net 70 odd million in his time at Liverpool. Thats in four seasons, so equates to substantially less than 50 million a season. Closer to 15m a season. Net. The improvement in the squad for that money is there for all to see.

Mr Alan-mythbuster.

GuanYin

Mr Alan wrote: »

GY-i don't have figures to hand, but iirc, Rafa has spent about net 70 odd million in his time at Liverpool. Thats in four seasons, so equates to substantially less than 50 million a season. Closer to 15m a season. Net. The improvement in the squad for that money is there for all to see.

Mr Alan-mythbuster.

Well I said 50 million to spend. I didn't say 50 million to lose. But if I might suggest that Liverpool have never actually won the premiership, so maybe that is why?

Should he be sacked? No.

Should he maybe take a role on the board instead? I think so yes.

He has brought them as far as he can I feel.

pokerface_me

Nay

Deleted User wrote: »

Should he be sacked? No.

Should he maybe take a role on the board instead? I think so yes.

He has brought them as far as he can I feel.

Well said KaG its hard to see him doing much more with them.

kippy

pokerface_me wrote: »

Well said KaG its hard to see him doing much more with them.

WHY CANT EITHER OF YE SEE HIM DOING MUCH MORE WITH THEM?

Which parts of the multiple arguments already put forward in this thread have ye issues with?


I already knocked down the "Fergie and his kids team" argument from you earlier, stating Fergie had some transfer record breaking players in that team as well as the kids.

As stated by numerous posters here Arsenal are in a far less precarious financial situation than Liverpool and United and are far less adverse to market conditions which could see either of these clubs in serious trouble.

Tony EH

Kirnsy wrote: »

interesting post.

1998, 2002, 2004 = 3 times

almunia has been absolutely fine this season bar a dodgy moment.

their first team defence - sagna toure gallas clichy have barely played together all season due to injury.

i do agree though that Wenger is a top class manager and doesn't need to go.


id like to know how many times arsenal have had a full squad to choose from minus rosicky?

Ah well, I'm a Liverpool fan...sod Arsenal then!



Seriously though, Almunia is a weak link. A decent goalie needs to sorted for the Gunners.

Pepe LeFrits

Almunia isn't a weak link. He's Arsenal's player of the season.

scruff321

glad to see the vast majority of people know something about football, what wenger is doing for arsenal is completely different to any team in the premiership, he may be critised for lacking a bit of strength and depth aswell as lack of trophies for the last few years but when he makes one or two signings while the rest of the squad matures arsenal will be leathal.

LuckyLloyd

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Almunia isn't a weak link. He's Arsenal's player of the season.

It's actually hilarious how quickly people forget his performance at Old Trafford in the first leg, where he made some unreal stops to keep his team in the tie.