Squats the story - the Off Topic Thread...

Brian?

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I was going to start dieting in April with a calorie deficit. Do any of you recommend continuing on with the bill Starr program I posted and cutting the sets down to 2 at top weight or just change to a different routine?

I just want to keep some of the strength.

Just keep at it as long you're making strength gains.

gymfreak

COH wrote: »

You clearly caught something

Didn't catch his strength, that's for frickin' sure!!!!

Gummy Panda

briankeating wrote: »

Just keep at it as long you're making strength gains.

Thanks mate. Wasn't sure if on a cut to continue with same volume but I'll see how it goes. If I feel lagging on heavy day I'll just throw some dextrose into me and add it into the calories for the day.

Mellor

I find I tire quicker and/or recover less between sets when on a cut so I often taper my warm-up so as to conserve energy for the work set(s).

For example
20kg x 5
40kg x 4
50kg x 3
60kg x 2
65kg x 5 *PB*

Paudee

gymfreak wrote: »

Really sore head today and I barely, barely ever get headaches.

Hoping it's not from caffeine withdrawal:eek:...had been experimenting with caffeine intake over the last few days..so if it's self inflicted that is even more annoying!

Mellor

Top set of front squats last night. Coming up on first rep head did a bit of a dizzy spin. Big breat at the top and it was ok. Finished the next 4 reps without incidient, but ruined focus as I was think it might come back. What do I do etc.

After racking, I figured the bar was sitting above collarbone. I'm guessing cutting off a blood vessel. I must have moved the bar after 1st rep just enough to let the blood flow.

SteelyDanJalapeno

I usually throw a towel over my shoulders

Barry.Oglesby

Only major vessel around there capable of making you that dizzy is the carotid. You'd want to be nearly choking yourself with the bar to get that. Maybe you were pinching a nerve? Maybe you just held your breath wrong momentarily?

Hanley

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Only major vessel around there capable of making you that dizzy is the carotid. You'd want to be nearly choking yourself with the bar to get that. Maybe you were pinching a nerve? Maybe you just held your breath wrong momentarily?

It's not that unusual with front squats if the bar rolls too far back. You see it happen a lot with weightlifters.

Not sure what the level of loading required for it to happen would be, or that you could pop it off and continue the set. Usually it creates a serious level of lightheadedness.

Barry.Oglesby

Hanley wrote: »

It's not that unusual with front squats if the bar rolls too far back. You see it happen a lot with weightlifters.

Not sure what the level of loading required for it to happen would be, or that you could pop it off and continue the set. Usually it creates a serious level of lightheadedness.

Hardly over the carotid though? The sternocleidomastoid muscle should keep that protected even under load.

LOL that came too easy to me, I think I know more about neck anatomy than any other part of the body.

Hanley

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Hardly over the carotid though? The sternocleidomastoid muscle should keep that protected even under load.

LOL that came too easy to me, I think I know more about neck anatomy than any other part of the body.

Nope, I'mma disagree! Let the bar roll too far back when you're racked and you're getting choked out. If it's far enough back to potentially choke you out, the bar's no longer sitting correctly on your shoulders and there's a lot of force being placed onto a very small surface area so I'd be exceedingly surprised if you're mastadon muscle was strong enough to support it.

Have you seen any of the vids I'm talking about where people pass out or near pass out with the bar racked in a front squat?

g'em

Hanley wrote: »

Have you seen any of the vids I'm talking about where people pass out or near pass out with the bar racked in a front squat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3wx1cqkT5s

Yup, happens relatively frequently. Although it's a combo of breathe-holding technique and the choke isn't it? Also sheer exertion.

Inspector Coptoor

Yeah, Valsalva manouver.

Barry.Oglesby

Hmmm I'm going to raise one eyebrow. I make a living strangling people and I don't think you can place sufficient pressure on the carotid that way. I could be wrong of course having never felt it but when I think of strangles I think of pressing at a point behind the mastoid and deeper into the neck... ie. at the side of the throat.

That being said, under heavy loads with so much blood recruited for other purposes you can faint without any pressure, so with even a little on your neck it might be sufficient.

Mellor

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Hardly over the carotid though? The sternocleidomastoid muscle should keep that protected even under load.

Yeah was carotid. I didn't suspect at the time that it was the reason, assumed it was breathing. But afterwards I could feel the carotid throbbing in that spot where it was sitting funny. I think it's called the subclavian triangle, so not protected my the muscle you mentioned.

Hanley wrote: »

Not sure what the level of loading required for it to happen would be, or that you could pop it off and continue the set. Usually it creates a serious level of lightheadedness.

Pop it off was probably a poor way to describe it. I got my shoulders right so they took the load not the clavicle. I didn't know at was the issue at the time. Or else I would of stopped instantly. Only dawned on me afterwards. And maybe it was only partially restricted and I was never in any danger of passing out. I've never been choked out so I don't know the sensation, orhiw string it is just before you go out.

roro1neil0

Do you really think it's sitting on top of both common carotids at the same time. I know they're fairly symmetrical in the neck on both sides, I still find it hard to believe you're occluding both.

I'd put more money on the cause of the guy feinting in the most recent video as syncope as huge amount of blood is delivered to his muscles and less to his brain.

I guess the headache could be associated with minor artery occlusion and hypoxia/ischemia by occlusion of the carotid or possibly a buildup of toxic metabolites as the jugular vein is also blocked off.

Hanley

roro1neil0 wrote: »

Do you really think it's sitting on top of both common carotids at the same time. I know they're fairly symmetrical in the neck on both sides, I still find it hard to believe you're occluding both.

I'd put more money on the cause of the guy feinting in the most recent video as syncope as huge amount of blood is delivered to his muscles and less to his brain.

I guess the headache could be associated with minor artery occlusion and hypoxia/ischemia by occlusion of the carotid or possibly a buildup of toxic metabolites as the jugular vein is also blocked off.

Ok then, why does it happen so much more frequently with the bar in the front rack position than in any other? The loading is typically less than in other positions, the physical exertion is similar (verging on less because of technical demands), so the only variable would appear to be bar position.

...which kind of backs up the theory behind what everyone is saying.

Barry.Oglesby

Hanley wrote: »

Ok then, why does it happen so much more frequently with the bar in the front rack position than in any other? The loading is typically less than in other positions, the physical exertion is similar (verging on less because of technical demands), so the only variable would appear to be bar position.

...which kind of backs up the theory behind what everyone is saying.

It could also be more direct pressure on the rib cage/diaphragm region causing breathing restrictions, the upright position could place more pressure on the diaphragm too.

Just sayin!

Barry.Oglesby

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah was carotid. I didn't suspect at the time that it was the reason, assumed it was breathing. But afterwards I could feel the carotid throbbing in that spot where it was sitting funny. I think it's called the subclavian triangle, so not protected my the muscle you mentioned.

Okay I don't want to say I'm a "neckspert".... anyone? C'mon! But from having a neck injury and from competing in a sport where the carotid artery is a target (that sounds worse than it is) I do know a fair bit about it. The carotid disappears beneath the clavicle pretty deep beneath the sternocleidomastoid, which has an insertion into the sternum which means when you brace your neck, there's a natural shield between the bar and the artery that runs pretty much into your ear. That's before we include the trachea. That's why I can't strangle (blood choke) you with my hand across your throat, parallel to your shoulders. I have to make a slight angle to do so.

I know, I know. All this talk of strangling.

MungBean

Sorry if this shuldnt be here but its just a quick question and not really worthy of a thread I dont think.

Starting to do some weights to build muscle but at the same time wanna lose some weight. Seen a youtube video where a guy said to do cardio after weights but dont run or jog, just do a brisk walk so as not to burn fat and not muscle.

Is that right or would I be better off jogging or running after the weights ?

Btw a sticky for quick questions would be a good idea I think, roll all those threads answered in one or two posts into one.

Hanley

MungBean wrote: »

Sorry if this shuldnt be here but its just a quick question and not really worthy of a thread I dont think.

Starting to do some weights to build muscle but at the same time wanna lose some weight. Seen a youtube video where a guy said to do cardio after weights but dont run or jog, just do a brisk walk so as not to burn fat and not muscle.

Is that right or would I be better off jogging or running after the weights ?

Btw a sticky for quick questions would be a good idea I think, roll all those threads answered in one or two posts into one.

kcal control is the best bet.

MungBean

Hanley wrote: »

kcal control is the best bet.

Just watching calorie intake and not doing any cardio ?

Hanley

MungBean wrote: »

Just watching calorie intake and not doing any cardio ?

No, kcals matter more than either cardio scenario.

Do whichever cardio you're more likely to do long term.

TommyKnocker

Impressive for a 10 yr old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdpET1ztZlQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZaCJY58iuk

SteelyDanJalapeno

losing weight and building muscle they dont really go hand in hand.

MungBean

TiltedBrain wrote: »

losing weight and building muscle they dont really go hand in hand.

Losing body fat while trying to build muscle then maybe would be a better way of saying it. I'm not trying to bulk up to get ripped or anything just be less pudgy and be able to run the length of myself.

MungBean

Hanley wrote: »

No, kcals matter more than either cardio scenario.

Do whichever cardio you're more likely to do long term.

You mean burning calories is the main aim when working out and take everything else as it comes ?

Hanley

MungBean wrote: »

You mean burning calories is the main aim when working out and take everything else as it comes ?

No, absolutely not.

I mean what you eat is far more important than the exercise you do. Creating a sufficient kcal debt to drive weight loss over a sustained period of time simply isn't possible for the average person thru training along.

You would be unable to recover from the volume and intensity required, your body would start to break down, and you'd end up injured, uninterested in training and probably fatter when the dust settles.

Calorie control and weightloss is ultimately dictated by diet. That thing that sucks about that is it's much harder to watch what you eat 16 hours a day than it is to run for an hour a date... but hey - life sucks, deal with it.

If you REALLY want to get lean (as opposed to most people who just want to feel better about their current condition without truly committing to the change), then you're gonna have to dial in your diet.

MungBean

Hanley wrote: »

If you REALLY want to get lean (as opposed to most people who just want to feel better about their current condition without truly committing to the change), then you're gonna have to dial in your diet.

So watch my calorie intake, do my weights and whatever cardio and I'll be good ?

Whats the figure I should be aiming at for calories or how does one work it out ?

Mellor

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Okay I don't want to say I'm a "neckspert".... anyone? C'mon! But from having a neck injury and from competing in a sport where the carotid artery is a target (that sounds worse than it is) I do know a fair bit about it. The carotid disappears beneath the clavicle pretty deep beneath the sternocleidomastoid, which has an insertion into the sternum which means when you brace your neck, there's a natural shield between the bar and the artery that runs pretty much into your ear. That's before we include the trachea. That's why I can't strangle (blood choke) you with my hand across your throat, parallel to your shoulders. I have to make a slight angle to do so.

I know, I know. All this talk of strangling.

I appreciate the insight from your BJJ background.
Obviously its impossible to tell at this stage what happened, so i want to cover all option to prevent it happening again.
Thanks for the description of the structure around the carotid. I'm just wondering, is it possible that due to the position or shoulders, arms, clavicle, head, neck etc could the Sternocleidomastoid muscle be in a position to leave the carotid more exposed.

Or what about the external jugular? Can that contribute to choking, or rather dizziness. As its obviously less protected