Are there any people who are finding it hard to enjoy this F1 season?

Go Harvey Go

Firstly, I want to say that at no point have I said anything about liking Ferrari and McLaren. All I said was that I kind of missed them being at the front of the grid - that does not necessarily mean I like them.

Secondly, I can see that quite a number of users on this thread are, unlike me, not finding it hard to enjoy this F1 season.

But one has to admit that the issue as regards the proposed budget cap is threatening to turn very ugly indeed - with Renault following Ferrari in making it clear that they will quit the sport unless this proposal is shelved.

If this issue goes on, there's every possibility that it could seriously overshadow what's taking place on the track - and that wouldn't be good, would it?

EvilMonkey

Go Harvey Go wrote: »

Firstly, I want to say that at no point have I said anything about liking Ferrari and McLaren. All I said was that I kind of missed them being at the front of the grid - that does not necessarily mean I like them.

Secondly, I can see that quite a number of users on this thread are, unlike me, not finding it hard to enjoy this F1 season.

But one has to admit that the issue as regards the proposed budget cap is threatening to turn very ugly indeed - with Renault following Ferrari in making it clear that they will quit the sport unless this proposal is shelved.

If this issue goes on, there's every possibility that it could seriously overshadow what's taking place on the track - and that wouldn't be good, would it?

I dont think anyone is enjoying the politics going on this year.
On track i dont care who is winning or loosing once their is some decent action on track.

Biro

enzo7 wrote: »

maybe a little harsh:) alonso was in my top drivers group doe, he was a fantastic champion! i know we need the grid fillers and i dont even mind them winning a few races but winning a drivers world championship should in my view be for the most talanted f1 drivers. there all fantastic racing drivers but some are more talanted f1 drivers than others. my top 5 would be alonso,kimi,lewis,massa,vettel, id prefer to watch them battling for the drivers title.

Doesn't always work out like that though! Hill for example!

enzo7

Biro wrote: »

Doesn't always work out like that though! Hill for example!

oh i know dont remind me:mad:

jusk

enzo7 wrote: »

maybe a little harsh:) alonso was in my top drivers group doe, he was a fantastic champion! i know we need the grid fillers and i dont even mind them winning a few races but winning a drivers world championship should in my view be for the most talanted f1 drivers. there all fantastic racing drivers but some are more talanted f1 drivers than others. my top 5 would be alonso,kimi,lewis,massa,vettel, id prefer to watch them battling for the drivers title.

I think lightning's point was that there were more 'filler' drivers in the past than there are now.

Anyway - to go back to the OP - I've really enjoyed this season so far - most interesting season in many years. I think it's great that Brawn and Red Bull are shaking things up. I'm sure Ferrari and McLaren will regain ground, but I don't see why people feel they have some devine right to be successful. If they can't put a decent car together, Lewis, Kimi, Alonso, etc will find themselves a better team next year (or whenever). As things stand - I think it's great to see Barrichello having a kind of last hurrah in a decent car, and Button has proven (so far) this season what a quick and reliable driver he is.

Brawn has also shown how important tactical decision making is - Ferrari have made some complete howlers this year - it's not all down to their crap aero package.

Also, having coverage back on the BBC has made F1 about 85% more enjoyable than it was for the last few years.

enzo7

jusk wrote: »

I think lightning's point was that there were more 'filler' drivers in the past than there are now.

Anyway - to go back to the OP - I've really enjoyed this season so far - most interesting season in many years. I think it's great that Brawn and Red Bull are shaking things up. I'm sure Ferrari and McLaren will regain ground, but I don't see why people feel they have some devine right to be successful. If they can't put a decent car together, Lewis, Kimi, Alonso, etc will find themselves a better team next year (or whenever). As things stand - I think it's great to see Barrichello having a kind of last hurrah in a decent car, and Button has proven (so far) this season what a quick and reliable driver he is.

Brawn has also shown how important tactical decision making is - Ferrari have made some complete howlers this year - it's not all down to their crap aero package.

Also, having coverage back on the BBC has made F1 about 85% more enjoyable than it was for the last few years.

ya i got that but my point was i dont care how many "fillers" they are as along as one of them doesnt win the "drivers title" , damon hill apart i dont rem another "filler" winning the title in d last 20yrs. i dont think ferrari or maclaren hav a devine right to be succesful ive no problem with brawn winning the constructers championship as the best team. but i just think the drivers title should be won by one of the most talanted drivers and looking at this yr vettel is the only one of those drivers who has a chance and id rather he won it than button.

enzo7

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Oh Ficus will be on a war path when he see`s you giving out about Damon Hill I dont think Hill comes close to being a filler, one WC twice runner up and one 3rd place. He had 22 wins in his entire career which is quite good. Plus just look at the drivers who competed against him in the year he won the WC.

Schumacher, Alesi, Berger, Brundle, Hakkinen, Herbert, DC , Irvine. Not a bad group of drivers to beat. Granted he was in the best car but you still have to bring it around the track.

apoligises to Ficus

i take it back:), no "filler" has won a world champ. Button looks like bn the first doe. "filler" is prob wrong word for them really, lesser talanted maybe. didnt mean to hav a pop at hill!. i never rated button i always thought of him as a "grid filler" so im not going to jump on the bangwagon and pretend his the nxt big thing when i dont even think he is one of the top 10 most talanted drivers on the grid right now. this is just my view but i think the most talanted drivers should win the drivers title and the best teams win the constructers . just my view and other may hav diffrent views thats fine. obviously fairplay to button if he does win it as you say he still has to bring it around the track.

enzo7

Ficus wrote: »

Damon Hill=legend

To describe him as a filler is a sin in my opinion.

ill say my penince 2night.:)

vectra

I had a lot more respect for Damon Hill than I would ever have for Hamilton.
As Lightning said = Jenson would make a much more popular WC than Hamilton.
Even though Lewis is actually bearable this season as he is now officially a Monkey, ( Monkey as being a back marker after being lapped by one of the 2007 Monkeys he referred to in Monaco ... Nothing racist in my comment )

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I have never been a big fan of button but I have always respected his ability to drive, he is a very clean smooth driver rarely makes stupid mistakes. I think if the car holds up he may just win the WC this year. He is ten times more likely than Hamiliton so he would make a fairly popular WC.

Funnily enough alot of people dont like Damon Hill which I have always found funny as he never really did/sayanyhing to too offensive. But as you say people are 100% entitled not to like a driver!

I'm a fan of Hill as well, but if I had to guess at something "offensive" he may have it was when he said that Senna probably just made a mistake which caused his crash. I was only 6 at the time and didn't know about Formula 1, but I'd imagine that wasn't a very popular thing to come out and say, even if he was right.

Edit: Also am I right in thinking he was seen as a bit boring? In that he didn't cheat like Schumacher? :P

smooch71

Don't know how this turned into a discussion on Damon Hill but sure I'll throw in my tuppence worth.

I hated him in 1995 coz all he ever seemed to do was moan and whinge. After he won his championship he stepped out of Schumachers shadow and chilled out a bit and he became more tolerable.

And for those who will say that it was only because he was in the best car, Jacques Villeneuve was in the same car that year, and he ain't no walk over.

A bit like Coulthard, Hill has become more interesting since he left F1. He's quite a witty guy and he was very good as one of Sky's pundits when they ran the F1 Digital + in 2002.

smooch71

LIGHTNING wrote: »

What I find funny now is that Hill has that stiff upper lip english scarf wearing 50`s era F1 driver look going on at the moment.

At least he's abandoned the rock star look with his long flowing grey locks.

Reckon he was on the grecian 2000 for years before he quit

enzo7

smooch71 wrote: »

Don't know how this turned into a discussion on Damon Hill but sure I'll throw in my tuppence worth.

I hated him in 1995 coz all he ever seemed to do was moan and whinge. After he won his championship he stepped out of Schumachers shadow and chilled out a bit and he became more tolerable.

And for those who will say that it was only because he was in the best car, Jacques Villeneuve was in the same car that year, and he ain't no walk over.

A bit like Coulthard, Hill has become more interesting since he left F1. He's quite a witty guy and he was very good as one of Sky's pundits when they ran the F1 Digital + in 2002.

ya he moaned and whinged sooo much in 95 it was hard to see past it, but he didnt really bother me in 96 i dunno i just never really warmed to him.
im kinda coming around to the idea of button been world champ if only to piss hamilton off:D. he def would be a million times more popular than him.

T-Maxx

Years ago would've been up at sparrow fart to watch the non European races. Systematically I've lost interest to the point where I now have a glance every few laps if I happen to be around the house when a race is on.

jusk

enzo7 wrote: »

apoligises to Ficus

i take it back:), no "filler" has won a world champ. Button looks like bn the first doe. "filler" is prob wrong word for them really, lesser talanted maybe. didnt mean to hav a pop at hill!. i never rated button i always thought of him as a "grid filler" so im not going to jump on the bangwagon and pretend his the nxt big thing when i dont even think he is one of the top 10 most talanted drivers on the grid right now. this is just my view but i think the most talanted drivers should win the drivers title and the best teams win the constructers . just my view and other may hav diffrent views thats fine. obviously fairplay to button if he does win it as you say he still has to bring it around the track.

I'm not even a Button 'fan', but I think to call him filler/less talented is harsh. If he does win the championship (and there's a long way to go there still), then you certainly can't call him filler. He's smooth, quick, rarely makes mistakes, has been quicker than Barrichello (no slouch - on his day Rubens could give Shoemaker a good run for his money), produced good quali laps, and has driven flawlessly in the rain, and under pressure. What more can he do to prove himself? How do you measure this 'talent' that you say he doesn't have, and Vettle does (though I acknowledge that Vettle is quite a talent). I'm not even suggesting he's more talented that Vettle, but I don't see why Button gets slagged off for being 'less talented' and winning in a car that is only marginally faster than 'talented' Vettle's Red Bull.

Damon Hill is a character - moaning or otherwise, and was not filler - he had a great career.

enzo7

jusk wrote: »

I'm not even a Button 'fan', but I think to call him filler/less talented is harsh. If he does win the championship (and there's a long way to go there still), then you certainly can't call him filler. He's smooth, quick, rarely makes mistakes, has been quicker than Barrichello (no slouch - on his day Rubens could give Shoemaker a good run for his money), produced good quali laps, and has driven flawlessly in the rain, and under pressure. What more can he do to prove himself? How do you measure this 'talent' that you say he doesn't have, and Vettle does (though I acknowledge that Vettle is quite a talent). I'm not even suggesting he's more talented that Vettle, but I don't see why Button gets slagged off for being 'less talented' and winning in a car that is only marginally faster than 'talented' Vettle's Red Bull.

Damon Hill is a character - moaning or otherwise, and was not filler - he had a great career.

filler isnt d best word but in the last 8yr thats all he has been(in my view), he had only won 1 race (hungary i tink) in 8yrs in racing, you can blame the car but the the top drivers end up in the top teams always! button would still be a filler this yr if it werent for the rule changes and his team did the best job adapting to them and brawn deserve full credit for that! everyone is entitled to their views thats just mine. vettel even in a bad car his talent still shone through. but the point i was trying to make(badly it seems) is i wouldnt put hill or button in the same group talentwise as the sennas/schumacher or even alonso/kimi their the kinda drivers id prefer to see winning "drivers titles". but if button does win the title then well done too him i wouldnt begrudge him that, as for hill i may not rate him as highly senna/schu/alonso/kimi ect. but he is a world champ with 20odd win ect and he does deserve full credit for that. i honestly didnt mean to slag them off, hill i did find a moaner but button does come across as a nice guy. i know your cant always be happy with the world champion but between button + vettel id prefer vettel.

enzo7

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Plus I might add that you may be the greatest driver ever and you may never win a race in F1. Plenty of amazing drivers never had the car under them and left F1 and went on to win Le Man`s/Indy/GT classes. I suppose it different these days in the 70`s you may have been able to pull a heap of junk to a decent results (ala James Hunt) due to the varing car configurations that were around at the time.

ya,what i ment was great "f1 drivers", take schumacher for example a great f1 driver but if he were a rally driver would he be able to give loeb a run for his money prob not or if loeb was a f1 driver would he be able to win 6 titles. montoya was another example who didnt cut it in f1 despite a great career in the states . this yr esp its obvious drivers talent doesnt count for alot when you see alonso/kimi/hamilton argueably the most talented driver on the grid fighting to get a few pts at best, in seasons past no matter how bad the car was you could nearly count on them pulling one win from somewhere! maybe they still might. im not saying any of them arent fantastic racing driver but some hav a bigger talent for driving f1 cars.

Go Harvey Go

Now I see that a lot of people are talking about Damon Hill and the subject of so-called 'filler' drivers.

I've always liked Damon - he's never been seriously controversial on or off the track, and he has a personality too, unlike many of today's drivers.

And even though he had his best years with Williams, he wasn't a filler driver in any way - remember he came within an ace of hauling an Arrows-Yamaha to victory in the 1997 Hungarian GP. He also just missed out on pole position in the final race of that season in Jerez.

True filler drivers are those who hardly show any promise and may only really be in F1 because of money - like Piercarlo Ghinzani in the 80s or Pedro Diniz in the 90s.

And if Damon did moan and whinge, it was nowhere near to the extent of any of the whiners on the grid today, or even some of the legendary drivers like Alain Prost or Nigel Mansell.

Whatever his opinions are on how well Button and Brawn are going at the moment, I'd say he's not terribly happy about what's been happening off the track...

riemann

Yeah ur right.

Button on Pole and then thanks to Ross Brawn he cruises away with a win.

Thats how its been so far for me anyways. I'm looking forward to a race where there is a few drivers at the front who can win it and we see some meaningful overtaking, not just someone running it down the inside after the straight for 12th.

Go Harvey Go

Well, the budget cap row is starting to get quite ugly - Ferrari's appeal against it has failed, and they're now considering taking legal action in the civil courts. It's led Alonso to think about his future in F1:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8060335.stm

I would be quite surprised if these events do not overshadow what takes place on the track in Monaco this weekend.

mikedragon32

The off-circuit scheisse is really getting out of hand, but luckily we don't have to worry about it during the race itself.

smooch71

mikedragon32 wrote: »

The off-circuit scheisse is really getting out of hand, but luckily we don't have to worry about it during the race itself.

Yeah,

We can worry about it next year when all the good teams are gone.

Jor

I really enjoyed the first few races of this season. Admittedly, quite a bit of the excitement has been generated by the rain that really mixed things and pushed the drivers to their limits. I don't mind that Ferrari v McLaren has been replaced by Brawn v Red Bull, so long as there is a good racing spectacle. I just hope Jenson does not extend his lead too any more as this will take a lot of tension out of the season. Vettel has been a bit hard done by, having been hit by Kubica in Oz and then geting penalised in the next race for it.

If they want to show good races though, then F1 has to get out of Spain. Apart from this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpU61z30GGY&feature=related
Spanish Grand Prix are generally the most boring, processional races of each season. At least Monaco has the tension of it being such a tight track, that anything can happen during it.

As for the other matter of "filler drivers", then I don't agree that Jenson is one of these. He has a very smooth driving style that has given him the edge over Rubens in an identical car. This was shown in Spain when he was driving as fast on the hard tyres as RB was on the softs. It is often small things like that that differenciate the good from the very good driver.

As for Damon Hill, he got Jordan their first win in '98 so I can forgive him driving like a 17 year old labrador with flatulence in '99 when HH Frentzen came close to winning the F1 title. After all, the following year HHF drove like a 15 year old spaniel with bad breath. Every dog can have his day.

Go Harvey Go

Jor wrote: »

After all, the following year HHF drove like a 15 year old spaniel with bad breath.

Frentzen wasn't all that bad in 2000 - it was more down to the Jordan EJ10 not being very reliable.

And Ferrari and McLaren were miles ahead of the rest that year.

Go Harvey Go

Another 1-2 for Button and Barrichello at the end of a rather boring Monaco GP...

Ferrari may have finished third and fourth but Brawn are clearly still a good bit ahead of everyone else. And Hamilton believes his struggles will continue.

I'm still finding it hard to enjoy this season...

riemann

Go Harvey Go wrote: »

I'm still finding it hard to enjoy this season...

Shame really, it could all have been so different had Kimi been just 0.026s quicker in Q3. I'm starting to look forward to next season already.

EvilMonkey

Go Harvey Go wrote: »

Another 1-2 for Button and Barrichello at the end of a rather boring Monaco GP...

Ferrari may have finished third and fourth but Brawn are clearly still a good bit ahead of everyone else. And Hamilton believes his struggles will continue.

I'm still finding it hard to enjoy this season...

Brawn are running away but but there is more competition for the rest of the positions.

dsmythy

Brawn domination has sapped the excitement i had at the start of the season. I didn't even bother watching the whole of the Monaco race. The championship feels almost over already.

Thank god they didn't have the race wins rule for this season. Someone would have to win 5 of the last 11 races to bring it to points bar Vettel who would still have to win 4. At least with points being the deciding reason all it takes is one Button non-finish to give other drivers a glimmer of hope. Hopefully this season's results mean they scrap their plan for the race wins rule at least.

thebman

I don't expect Brawn to be winning every race from now on. I think Ferrari have caught up and Brawn will probably have some poor results coming there way and we will probably have a closer championship than it looks at the moment.

I think Rakinnonen (can't spell it though) will be challenging for the championship due to a kick in the hole he will get from Ferrari management and the media and Massa probably beating him on one or two occasions causing him to get his act together. I think he isn't pushing as hard because he knows the car isn't there. I think he'll push hard when the car starts to perform better which I expect in the next race or two.

amacachi

thebman wrote: »

I don't expect Brawn to be winning every race from now on. I think Ferrari have caught up and Brawn will probably have some poor results coming there way and we will probably have a closer championship than it looks at the moment.

I think Rakinnonen (can't spell it though) will be challenging for the championship due to a kick in the hole he will get from Ferrari management and the media and Massa probably beating him on one or two occasions causing him to get his act together. I think he isn't pushing as hard because he knows the car isn't there. I think he'll push hard when the car starts to perform better which I expect in the next race or two.

Have to disagree about Ferrari, usually Monaco flatters some cars over others. Look at Toyota, good so far this season but awful in Monaco, but they'll more than likely be top 8 again for the next couple of races. I've a feeling Ferrari won't do as well again til Hungary. Hopefully Kimi can prove me wrong though.

thebman

Well they say they have a few new components for the car for the next race. Assuming it makes a difference I think it will help them push forward.

I think developments with the car will help motivate the drivers if nothing else to push harder and get a better result.

G-Money

Q: Is there anyone not enjoying this season?

A: Yep, McLaren.

Go Harvey Go

grandmaster wrote: »

Q: Is there anyone not enjoying this season?

A: Yep, McLaren.

Don't forget BMW Sauber.

vectra

Apparently Alonso is getting fed up of being stuck midfield
So he obviously not enjoying it

dsmythy

vectra wrote: »

Apparently Alonso is getting fed up of being stuck midfield
So he obviously not enjoying it

Hard to judge where to go these days. I bet Fernando wishes for the days of the old reliables dominating the sport.

Go Harvey Go

Button and Brawn win again in Turkey... :rolleyes:

This time Brawn did not get both cars home, but once more Ferrari and McLaren struggled, with only Massa finishing in the points, and Red Bull and Toyota were strong.

And the budget cap row is clearly far from over.

Still struggling to enjoy this season...

vectra

Go Harvey Go wrote: »

Button and Brawn win again in Turkey... :rolleyes:

Yup
another day of Button and Yawn dominance.

Might be looking for something better to do with my time on Sundays if this continues for much longer

Frank Bullitt

Not going to lie, I skipped the gym today to watch the GP before work,after turn 10 i turned it off as i knew that was going to be the result, when I switched the channel my dad was wondering what was going on.

Dad:Why did you turn it off?
Me:Cause Button will win it now,no point really.
Dad:What if he crashes?
Me:He won't Da
Dad,Your probably right son.

Just to note as well,my Da hates F1 but still watches it when I do,but even he is not seeing the point in watching it,think ill give it a rest till 2010.

enzo7

ya it pretty bad now, in 22yrs of watching i dont think ive whinged and complained so much about it than i hav in the last few mths, a friend asked me the other day why i still watch it , i said f1 has been my biggest passion since i was 5yrs old (my kids apart) im not ready to give up on it just yet! heres hopeing dis yr is a 1 off.

dsmythy

My Formula One watching this season is the qualifying session. If Button has pole i'll watch the start. If he's in the lead i turn it off. I got a bit further into the race today before turning off when Button went first.

Race wins rule watch:

Now Vettel would have to win half of the remaining ten races. Everyone else would have to win 6 of them if the rules were in force this season.

Creeping-Death

dsmythy wrote: »

My Formula One watching this season is the qualifying session. If Button has pole i'll watch the start. If he's in the lead i turn it off. I got a bit further into the race today before turning off when Button went first.

Race wins rule watch:

Now Vettel would have to win half of the remaining ten races. Everyone else would have to win 6 of them if the rules were in force this season.

He'll probably still have to win half the remaining races to catch button i reckon, 32 points behind and barring a catastrophe button will pick up points at least if not podium places in those ten races

enzo7

i think regardless of which point system was in place dis season button would still be world champion, i think they should just revert back to the 10.6,4,3,2,1 point system they only changed it because of schumacher and were unlikely to see a talent like that again.

Creeping-Death

yes he certainly would because he would have 59 points, only two less than what he has now. And a 6 point gap between first and third is far too much

paddy cork

i would keep the points as they are but give the winner 12 instead of 10

enzo7

i think if a car/driver are far superior like button/brawn are this yr it doesnt matter what point system is in place but i do tink only getting 2 extra points for a win isnt fair thats why i think it should go back to the old system 10,6,4,3,2,1. i never thought they should hav changed it in d first place.

Dcully

Another absolute snoozefest today.
For over 20 years ive religiously watched f1,today ive finally decided to not bother anymore.

Biro

I don't see how it's different than how it was when MS was dominating. It's still better now.
People on here wouldn't be complaining if a Ferrari were in place of the Brawn.

enzo7

Biro wrote: »

I don't see how it's different than how it was when MS was dominating. It's still better now.
People on here wouldn't be complaining if a Ferrari were in place of the Brawn.

there was a massive diffrence we were watching one of the greatest drivers in the sports history, id would rather watch schumacher drive around the track all by himself than all the "races" this year, its not buttons fault his running away with it, its just the way it is, im a ferrari fan but if it were massa or kimi running away with its id still be bored to tears! i think this season is a right off but hopefully nxt yr will be alot better.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

f it were massa or kimi running away with its id still be bored to tears! i think this season is a right off but hopefully nxt yr will be alot better.

Exactly
This season is a waste of time
07-08 were much better
Not because it was kimi
Massa
Lewis
Simply because there was a better battle at the front
Where is the battle this year
Midfield ?
at the back?

EvilMonkey

Biro wrote: »

I don't see how it's different than how it was when MS was dominating. It's still better now.
People on here wouldn't be complaining if a Ferrari were in place of the Brawn.

Its not just Brawn though their was hardly any fighting for the rest of the positions. If button was dominating but their was good battles for the rest of the places it wouldn't be half as bad.