Are there any people who are finding it hard to enjoy this F1 season?

enzo7

to be honest havnt been enjoying f1 100% since schuey retired but i still enjoyed 07/08 because of the championship battle!! and it wasnt even because there were ferrari drivers involved more because they was actually a battle!! nothing against button but im sooo bored watching him drive around in circles!!

Creeping-Death

Tbh from about 2002 to 2006 were the best of the recent years. You had Williams, Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and Honda all having cars capable of winning a race. Much better competition, And the drivers in them to match. Fisichella in a Renault, Raikkonen in the McLaren, Montoya for Williams/McLaren, Ralf and Michael Schumacher.. Alas now we have the likes of Bourdais, Buemi, Nakajima and Piquet Jr

smooch71

There is light at the end of the tunnel assuming that FOTA and the FIA can come to an agreement and we see all the current teams back in F1 next year.

Brawn (or Honda if you prefer) had a full year to work on that car behind closed doors. They abandoned 2008 when it became clear the car was a crap wagon as early as the second or third race of the season.

They had practically a full year, Honda's €400m budget and double their current staff to design the car and get it right. That's why it was so fast when it finally hit the track in testing and why it's dominated the season thus far.

Brawn will not have all those luxuries when it comes to next years car. In fact none of the teams even know for sure yet what the new rules will be.

I have nothing against Jenson Button or Ross Brawn so give them their moment in the spotlight. I don't believe it's going to last beyond the end of the season.

And dominance is nothing new in F1 (McLaren 1988, Williams 1992, Ferrari 2002 etc, the list goes on) so let's not write the sport off because of it. And dominance doesn't usually last long.

Formula 1 is going through enough crap at the moment without the supporters abandoning it because of one team or driver getting everything right.

The way I see it is if Mosley gets his way, we'll be lucky if F1 even exists next year as we know it. And in the future we'll be looking back through rose tinted glasses at 2009 and claiming that Jenson Button was the last "true" Formula 1 world champion.

Dcully

You see far better racing in practically any other form of motorsport.
There are many forms of nascar,Gt cars,touring cars,bikes, etc the list goes on and every one of them offer better racing than F1.
Its not just this year its being crap for years.

Anyone that thinks F1 offers good racing simply dont watch other forms of motorsport.
During yesterdays GP i found myself switching over to motors tv to watch their rerun of the Aussie V8s from last week,far better racing far more exciting even though i knew the result.

EvilMonkey

Dcully wrote: »

You see far better racing in practically any other form of motorsport.
There are many forms of nascar,Gt cars,touring cars,bikes, etc the list goes on and every one of them offer better racing than F1.
Its not just this year its being crap for years.

Anyone that thinks F1 offers good racing simply dont watch other forms of motorsport.
During yesterdays GP i found myself switching over to motors tv to watch their rerun of the Aussie V8s from last week,far better racing far more exciting even though i knew the result.

If all motorsport was the same their would be only 1 series.
In 07 and 08 the F1 championship went down to the last race. Offer any driver in most other series a drive in F1 99% of the time they will take it, why?

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

IOffer any driver in most other series a drive in F1 99% of the time they will take it, why?

Definitely not money.

beni

Its boring, I am following MOTOGP which is very good. I might start watching Natural Born Racers instead of F1

smooch71

Dcully wrote: »

You see far better racing in practically any other form of motorsport.
There are many forms of nascar,Gt cars,touring cars,bikes, etc the list goes on and every one of them offer better racing than F1.
Its not just this year its being crap for years.

Anyone that thinks F1 offers good racing simply dont watch other forms of motorsport.
During yesterdays GP i found myself switching over to motors tv to watch their rerun of the Aussie V8s from last week,far better racing far more exciting even though i knew the result.

It's also the case that my son's under 10s football league is more competitive and closer fought that the Barclays premier league, but that's not the point.

I thought the discussion was to get the views of Formula 1 fans on whether or not they feel this year has been disappointing in comparison to other years.

To make a sweeping statement about F1 being crap for years doesn't add anything to the discussion.

smooch71

amacachi wrote: »

Definitely not money.

Many drivers at that level are wealthy before they get into F1 so I think it's to do with a lot more than just money.

EvilMonkey

beni wrote: »

Its boring, I am following MOTOGP which is very good. I might start watching Natural Born Racers instead of F1

Motogp is going the way of F1, You should watch WSB

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Motogp is going the way of F1, You should watch WSB

And BTCC

smooch71

vectra wrote: »

And BTCC

Who has the rights to BTCC this year? I can never seem to find it

vectra

smooch71 wrote: »

Who has the rights to BTCC this year? I can never seem to find it

I watch it on ITV4

dsmythy

Biro wrote: »

I don't see how it's different than how it was when MS was dominating. It's still better now.
People on here wouldn't be complaining if a Ferrari were in place of the Brawn.

I don't mind if Brawn dominate as long as the two drivers are challenging each other. I would be turned off watching a sole Ferrari win every race too.

Dcully

smooch71 wrote: »

It's also the case that my son's under 10s football league is more competitive and closer fought that the Barclays premier league, but that's not the point.

I thought the discussion was to get the views of Formula 1 fans on whether or not they feel this year has been disappointing in comparison to other years.

To make a sweeping statement about F1 being crap for years doesn't add anything to the discussion.

I couldnt give a toss if it does or doesnt add anything to the discussion.
I dont see a golden rule saying it should do either :rolleyes:

Im saying i find it boring because the racing is crap,what is wrong with that point exactly?

smooch71

Dcully wrote: »

I couldnt give a toss if it does or doesnt add anything to the discussion.
I dont see a golden rule saying it should do either :rolleyes:

Well pardon me all over the place!!!

Dcully

smooch71 wrote: »

Well pardon me all over the place!!!

To make a sweeping statement like that doesnt add anything to the discussion :P

smooch71

Dcully wrote: »

To make a sweeping statement like that doesnt anything to the discussion :P

I couldnt give a toss if it does or doesnt add anything to the discussion.
I dont see a golden rule saying it should do either


But seriously.........

No problem with anyone finding it boring. I can see why people are finding it boring at the moment but I don't think it's fair to say F1 has been boring for years. 06, 07 and to a lesser extent 08 were all exciting seasons. And to be fair there was a good bit of racing going on. Not Formula Ford levels I agree but you can't make that kind of comparison between the two.

smooch71

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I`m going to stick my neck on the line and say I dont think we will ever see F1 turn into a big overtaking fest that you see at grass route levels.

I agree with you 100%

It's never going to happen. But it doesn't need to.

Like Dcully said, there are plenty of other forms of motorsport where overtaking and wheel to wheel racing is commonplace and apart from actually seeing exciting racing live in somewhere like Mondello (or competing as I know you do), there is huge motorsport coverage of all levels on tv now in the digital era.

But we shouldn't make the comparison between this and Formula 1.

vectra

dsmythy wrote: »

I don't mind if Brawn dominate as long as the two drivers are challenging each other. I would be turned off watching a sole Ferrari win every race too.

But there are no two drivers challenging each other.. Unless I am watching the wrong F1 races..??
All I see is Button scampering off in the distance and Barrichello holding back the rest of the field ( not including yesterday of course )

My One of the most memorable years in F1 for me was 2006..
Why?
I knew we were about to see the back of Shumacher and his/Ferrari's dominance.

07 was good
08 was good
09...!!!!!!!!!!!! << Yawn..!!

I would much prefer to see
6 or 8 cars right at the front battling like crazy.

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

But there are no two drivers challenging each other.. Unless I am watching the wrong F1 races..??
All I see is Button scampering off in the distance and Barrichello holding back the rest of the field ( not including yesterday of course )

My One of the most memorable years in F1 for me was 2006..
Why?
I knew we were about to see the back of Shumacher and his/Ferrari's dominance.

07 was good
08 was good
09...!!!!!!!!!!!! << Yawn..!!

I would much prefer to see
6 or 8 cars right at the front battling like crazy.

schumacher dominance ended in 04, i thought 06 was bitter sweet in that it was a great season but we were also about to loose the sport only remaining superstar, because we had good championship battles in 07/08 it glossed it over abit. but this year with button running away with it u really miss it because there isnt a driver on the grid capable of pulling a win out of the bag schuey/senna style. bar button having a mechanical failure i cant see anyone else winning a race and i dont even see button making a mistake because he is driving with so much confidence.id still put money on him winning any wet races. i hope the other teams can close the gap over the winter or the very least brawn replace rubens. does anyone know how long is left on his contract?

EvilMonkey

enzo7 wrote: »

schumacher dominance ended in 04, i thought 06 was bitter sweet in that it was a great season but we were also about to loose the sport only remaining superstar, because we had good championship battles in 07/08 it glossed it over abit. but this year with button running away with it u really miss it because there isnt a driver on the grid capable of pulling a win out of the bag schuey/senna style. bar button having a mechanical failure i cant see anyone else winning a race and i dont even see button making a mistake because he is driving with so much confidence.id still put money on him winning any wet races. i hope the other teams can close the gap over the winter or the very least brawn replace rubens. does anyone know how long is left on his contract?

He wont make a mistake because he isn't being put under enough pressure.
I think its mostly down to the major rule changes and this season is kind of a transitional one i think things will be better next year (if the FIA/FOTA issues can be sorted) maybe even by the end of this one.

Go Harvey Go

smooch71 wrote: »

06, 07 and to a lesser extent 08 were all exciting seasons.

How was 2008 less exciting than 2006 and 2007?

The championship battle between Hamilton and Massa had its fair share of twists and turns - Massa's engine failure just a few laps from the finish in Hungary, the pointless demotion of Hamilton from first to third at Spa, Massa's pit stop disaster in Singapore - and, of course, the last few corners at Interlagos...

And it was shaken up by not entirely expected victories for Alonso (two), Kovalainen and Vettel.

2006 and 2007 were exciting seasons too, don't get me wrong, but I don't think 2008 was any less exciting.

enzo7

EvilMonkey wrote: »

He wont make a mistake because he isn't being put under enough pressure.
I think its mostly down to the major rule changes and this season is kind of a transitional one i think things will be better next year (if the FIA/FOTA issues can be sorted) maybe even by the end of this one.

ya thats true but i dont see anyone putting him under pressure, i do think that without the major rule changes brawn wouldnt be in this position, a country mile ahead of everyone else but i still dont see any of the teams closing the gap significintly over the winter. generaly when teams dominate its of 2/3 seasons aleast. i still think our best bet of having a decent season nxt yr is brawn replacing rubens with anyone. i hope im wrong because i luv to see any team up there with brawn nxt yr.

vectra

Go Harvey Go wrote: »

And it was shaken up by not entirely expected victories for Alonso (two), Kovalainen and Vettel.

Dont forget Kubica's win at Canada.
After the "Pointless" mess created by Hamilton in the pit lane

Slutmonkey57b

smooch71 wrote: »

I agree with you 100%

It's never going to happen. But it doesn't need to.

Like Dcully said, there are plenty of other forms of motorsport where overtaking and wheel to wheel racing is commonplace and apart from actually seeing exciting racing live in somewhere like Mondello (or competing as I know you do), there is huge motorsport coverage of all levels on tv now in the digital era.

But we shouldn't make the comparison between this and Formula 1.

Much thought we hate to admit it, this is true of modern F1.
The simple fact is that everything is so precise, so planned, so calculated, and so minute at the top end, that the tiniest advantage builds and builds. People need to remember their exponentials from Junior Cert maths. In years gone by, there was margin for error. Engineering wasn't as precise. Driving wasn't as precise (I'm not getting a "Jim Clark was rubbish" point here - the point is that a single driver error wasn't a race ending scenario unless he crashed in times gone by). Racing nowadays is dominated by who makes a tiny error. Nakajima lost out on points because of a second extra with a wheel nut. In times gone by, an extra second in the pits wasn't a race over scenario. Barrichello's race was over when he stalled. Fastest car on the grid, allegedly utterly dominant, and can't get past the backmarker on a track you can pass on. Why? There's not enough margin, that's why.

amacachi

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Much thought we hate to admit it, this is true of modern F1.
The simple fact is that everything is so precise, so planned, so calculated, and so minute at the top end, that the tiniest advantage builds and builds. People need to remember their exponentials from Junior Cert maths. In years gone by, there was margin for error. Engineering wasn't as precise. Driving wasn't as precise (I'm not getting a "Jim Clark was rubbish" point here - the point is that a single driver error wasn't a race ending scenario unless he crashed in times gone by). Racing nowadays is dominated by who makes a tiny error. Nakajima lost out on points because of a second extra with a wheel nut. In times gone by, an extra second in the pits wasn't a race over scenario. Barrichello's race was over when he stalled. Fastest car on the grid, allegedly utterly dominant, and can't get past the backmarker on a track you can pass on. Why? There's not enough margin, that's why.

Hence why I love NASCAR.

smooch71

Go Harvey Go wrote: »

How was 2008 less exciting than 2006 and 2007?

The championship battle between Hamilton and Massa had its fair share of twists and turns - Massa's engine failure just a few laps from the finish in Hungary, the pointless demotion of Hamilton from first to third at Spa, Massa's pit stop disaster in Singapore - and, of course, the last few corners at Interlagos...

And it was shaken up by not entirely expected victories for Alonso (two), Kovalainen and Vettel.

2006 and 2007 were exciting seasons too, don't get me wrong, but I don't think 2008 was any less exciting.

Yeah, fair points, and what I said was just my opinion.

2006 sticks in my mind because of Schumachers fightback when earlier in the season the Ferrari was outclassed by the Renault.

I suppose I found 2007 more exciting for me for the same reason except with Raikkonen this time.

I never said 08 wasn't exciting, it was, I mean the championship went literally down to the last corner. The other two just stick more in my mind thats all.

Maybe I want to forget 2008 coz Hamilton won, I wouldn't be his biggest fan but without doubt the season itself threw up some wildcard victories which I suppose all in all proves the point that to an F1 fan it can all be exciting.

And like I said earlier, this isn't the first time one team/driver has dominated and it won't be the last. But history has proven that there are plenty of exciting seasons in between.

enzo7

ya would agree with u actually.
08 was a good season in general but one i rather forget too after brazil what a heartbreaker and for it to be maclaren/hamilton too it really hurt!! .

smooch71

enzo7 wrote: »

ya would agree with u actually.
08 was a good season in general but one i rather forget too after brazil what a heartbreaker and for it to be maclaren/hamilton too it really hurt!! .

I'll never forget the look on Massa seniors face when he was told Fillipe hadn't won the title.

You just wanted to hug him!

Biro

Creeping-Death wrote: »

Tbh from about 2002 to 2006 were the best of the recent years. You had Williams, Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and Honda all having cars capable of winning a race. Much better competition, And the drivers in them to match. Fisichella in a Renault, Raikkonen in the McLaren, Montoya for Williams/McLaren, Ralf and Michael Schumacher.. Alas now we have the likes of Bourdais, Buemi, Nakajima and Piquet Jr

Are you for real? Ralf? RALF? Buemi is an excellent driver. Great potential. Bourdais is better than Ralf could ever be. Montoya was an over rated whinger. Fisichella never met his potential. I wouldn't put Ralf in a Force India.

Biro

enzo7 wrote: »

ya would agree with u actually.
08 was a good season in general but one i rather forget too after brazil what a heartbreaker and for it to be maclaren/hamilton too it really hurt!! .

I think you're a little blinded by your Schumacher glasses!! 2008 was an excellent season, start to finish.
Schumacher is one of the best drivers ever, but that doesn't mean that every race he took part in was automatically better.

enzo7

Biro wrote: »

I think you're a little blinded by your Schumacher glasses!! 2008 was an excellent season, start to finish.
Schumacher is one of the best drivers ever, but that doesn't mean that every race he took part in was automatically better.

where did i say 08 wasnt a good season??? in fact i said in general it was a very good year, but it not one i want to look back on because of what happened in brazil.

im not blinded by my "schumacher glasses" yes he was the greatest racing driver ive every seen and der isnt one of his races i didnt enjoy and that been competely honest. i dont really see where im "blinded" all ive done is state d obvious!! you shouldnt let your dis like of d guy cloud your judgment on him.

Biro

enzo7 wrote: »

where did i say 08 wasnt a good season??? in fact i said in general it was a very good year, but it not one i want to look back on because of what happened in brazil.

im not blinded by my "schumacher glasses" yes he was the greatest racing driver ive every seen and der isnt one of his races i didnt enjoy and that been competely honest. i dont really see where im "blinded" all ive done is state d obvious!! you shouldnt let your dis like of d guy cloud your judgment on him.

I don't dislike him. I think he's great.

enzo7

brilliant, we all think his great so:D

Creeping-Death

Biro wrote: »

Are you for real? Ralf? RALF? Buemi is an excellent driver. Great potential. Bourdais is better than Ralf could ever be. Montoya was an over rated whinger. Fisichella never met his potential. I wouldn't put Ralf in a Force India.

Buemi? get real, he's driving a Red Bull with a Ferrari engine and still cant score points. While Webber and Vettel score points and podium finishes in the same chassis with a Renault engine. do the maths.. Montoya finished 3rd in 2002 and 2003 and Ralf 4th and 5th respectively. and Bourdais, a 30 year old in his second F1 season, and 6 points to his name.

vectra

Creeping-Death wrote: »

Buemi? get real, he's driving a Red Bull with a Ferrari engine and still cant score points. While Webber and Vettel score points and podium finishes in the same chassis with a Renault engine. do the maths.. Montoya finished 3rd in 2002 and 2003 and Ralf 4th and 5th respectively. and Bourdais, a 30 year old in his second F1 season, and 6 points to his name.

Anyone that stands up and says Ralf was a good driver should quietly sit down again before anyone hears him

Ralf was a natural born Blunder

Biro

Creeping-Death wrote: »

Buemi? get real, he's driving a Red Bull with a Ferrari engine and still cant score points. While Webber and Vettel score points and podium finishes in the same chassis with a Renault engine. do the maths.. Montoya finished 3rd in 2002 and 2003 and Ralf 4th and 5th respectively. and Bourdais, a 30 year old in his second F1 season, and 6 points to his name.

Montoya and Ralf had the cars. Ralf is a plonker. And Buemi is about 12, so I think he's got great potential. Webber and Vettel are legend drivers.
As I said, I don't like Bourdais, but I'd pick him for a team over that plonker Ralf.

enzo7

ralf was an average f1 driver whos still won 6 races and 20 odd podiums , bourdais is past it and has done nothing in f1 to suggest he will come close to ralfs career,for a "plonker" he didnt do too badly, buemi is 21 so he has a couple of years to make an impression i guess. vettel i thought had potential to make it big but hav to admit im slightly concerned he cant always get the better of webber
who im sorry will never be a legend,a nice guy who is having a fantastic season esp after the winter he just had. vettel will prob still win a title doe

dont even get me started on montoya a over-hyped over-paid whiner.

thebman

Well Webber is awesome and underrated IMO so I'm not too concerned by that.

enzo7

im not trying to argue with you here, but if i were vettel id be worried about not been able to beat webber every wkend, webber is a very good driver and in many ways he is underrated but in 7yrs he has never won a race im sure vettel has hopes of actually leavin his mark on f1 and acheiving something more than a hand full of podiums and if he does he going to hav to be able to beat his team who is now 33 so isnt exactly some young hot shot!! im sure vettel will still win a world championship but i was hopeing he would actually achieve alot more than that now im so sure he will.

enzo7

ya i do think webber is having a fantasic season and b4 the season started i didnt think vettel would hav a prob beating webber as i had high hopes for vettel being the sports nxt big thing, but im worried about vettel because i think he will hav a job in his hands beating webber over the entire season and for him to really make it big in f1 he would hav to b able to beat webber who hasnt made a massive inpact in f1 for whatever reason and also at 33 isnt exactly a spring chicken. so either vettel isnt as good as id hoped or webber is alot better than iv given him credit for:cool:

Biro

enzo7 wrote: »

ya i do think webber is having a fantasic season and b4 the season started i didnt think vettel would hav a prob beating webber as i had high hopes for vettel being the sports nxt big thing, but im worried about vettel because i think he will hav a job in his hands beating webber over the entire season and for him to really make it big in f1 he would hav to b able to beat webber who hasnt made a massive inpact in f1 for whatever reason and also at 33 isnt exactly a spring chicken. so either vettel isnt as good as id hoped or webber is alot better than iv given him credit for:cool:

I genuinely think it's the latter there. Webber is very good.

DeVore

It's not that people were sick of Ferrari/McLaren dominating the sport, they are sick of anyone dominating the sport.

Personally, I'll still clue-in to the results and watch the highlights but it seems to be over before its begun and I'm sorry but I dont think Button took some wonder pill and suddenly is the greatest driver in the history of the sport, so it has to be the car thats made this huge difference which makes it feel like a crap competition frankly.

I'm sure even Jensen feels a little cheated by his sweep to victory. A little voice in his head has to be saying "you'd feck all to do with this".

DeV.

EvilMonkey

DeVore wrote: »

It's not that people were sick of Ferrari/McLaren dominating the sport, they are sick of anyone dominating the sport.

Personally, I'll still clue-in to the results and watch the highlights but it seems to be over before its begun and I'm sorry but I dont think Button took some wonder pill and suddenly is the greatest driver in the history of the sport, so it has to be the car thats made this huge difference which makes it feel like a crap competition frankly.

I'm sure even Jensen feels a little cheated by his sweep to victory. A little voice in his head has to be saying "you'd feck all to do with this".

DeV.

But the competition between the teams is much greater, F1 is 80% - 90% the car and has been for a while. The real competition is between the engineers and teams when building upgrading the car and Ross Brawn is the best at getting this done.
Jensen has always been a good driver capable of winning once he had the car under him.

bernardo mac

Interested in cars...performance etc re.watching F1,prefer to watch paint dry:rolleyes:

enzo7

i dont think there is a driver on the grid who wouldnt win in button position, the competition from red bull down is alot closer but there is a massive gap between them and brawn. there in no competition at the top of the grid between the drivers engineers or designers. brawn are a mile ahead, all button has to do in turn up. i watch f1 to see a fight for the championsip not for 2nd place. this is the first year the drivers arent able to make a diffrence, just look at hamilton i know he isnt very well liked on here but his a fantastic racing driver and for guy of his talent to be qualifying 16/17th is exactly what is wrong with f1 2day.

thebman

I don't believe that for a second. So why is Barichello not flying off into the distance with Button?

Isn't it possible that Button is a great driver that was stuck in underperforming teams for the past few years and previous to that was a rookie F1 driver with no experience?

enzo7

thebman wrote: »

I don't believe that for a second. So why is Barichello not flying off into the distance with Button?

Isn't it possible that Button is a great driver that was stuck in underperforming teams for the past few years and previous to that was a rookie F1 driver with no experience?

barrichello is 37 and is well past is best. "great drivers" dont get stuck in underperforming teams for 8yrs!!!! villenuve nearly won a championship in his first yr so did hamilton so i dont buy the rookie with no experience crap, to stay he was stuck in a underperforming car for 8yrs is the lames excuse in the book the best drivers end up in the best teams because the best guys in the buisness wana work with them. nothing against d guy but the only reason his leading the championship is because of the huge rule changes dis yr and the designers at brawn going the best job adapting too them and its a insult to them to suggest its buttons "talent" that has draged the team to the top.

EvilMonkey

enzo7 wrote: »

barrichello is 37 and is well past is best. "great drivers" dont get stuck in underperforming teams for 8yrs!!!! villenuve nearly won a championship in his first yr so did hamilton so i dont buy the rookie with no experience crap, to stay he was stuck in a underperforming car for 8yrs is the lames excuse in the book the best drivers end up in the best teams because the best guys in the buisness wana work with them. nothing against d guy but the only reason his leading the championship is because of the huge rule changes dis yr and the designers at brawn going the best job adapting too them and its a insult to them to suggest its buttons "talent" that has draged the team to the top.

But when Honda signed them they were planing on winning world championships.