Commute less than 8km? Why don't you cycle?

Alias G

tech2 wrote: »

Yes 10 minutes and yes Im extremely lazy. So what there is other workmates who live next door from me and also drive. A car is a luxury i own get over yourself.

A car is a luxury a lot of people own....doesn't make them nearly as lazy as you though.

Alias G

jum4 wrote: »

Is is not the norm for offices in Dublin to provide shower facilites? (Havn't lived/worked in Ireland for years)

Every job I've ever had in this country has had shower facilities.

L1011

Alias G wrote: »

Every job I've ever had in this country has had shower facilities.

Its far from the norm though. My previous two offices had one shower (for 600 staff) which was rarely cleaned properly; and two showers that leaked in to the rooms below and were eventually removed by the building mainto firm! Current one doesn't and thinking through where my family work, only my sisters office of the lot of them does.

BostonB

johnnyc wrote: »

ah the data looks up to date excluding the year 2009....tell me do you believe that any mother would leave there child cycle to school in dublin or cork city with the traffic on the roads?

Do think no children cycle to work in Dublin and Cork? Any school I've ever been at there's lots Of kids on bikes. Local primary must have 50+ judging by the bike rack.

If the death rate in cars was on the rise. Would that be a good reason not to drive? Why is a rise in rate so important?

johnnyc

BostonB wrote: »

Do think no children cycle to work in Dublin and Cork? Any school I've ever been at there's lots Of kids on bikes. Local primary must have 50+ judging by the bike rack.

If the death rate in cars was on the rise. Would that be a good reason not to drive? Why is a rise in rate so important?

Ok BostonB theres a few children who do cycle....but the vast majority are dropped off & collected by their mother. Why is this 1 factor would be the safety of there children. Thats why you notice that traffic is a whole lot better in the summer then the winter no school runs. Thats why i believe a simple tax on cycling could help to improve safety and also schools have to educate children about safety in cycling. Through a safety campaign with the parents on board, this could and would improve congestion & health of there children

monument

johnnyc wrote: »

ah the data looks up to date excluding the year 2009....tell me do you believe that any mother would leave there child cycle to school in dublin or cork city with the traffic on the roads?

Just like your nonsense about Belgium, you're incorrect here too. Try looking up official stats rather than some random website with just a few links to newspaper articles.

Oh, and jonhnyc, if you do think cycling is unsafe please answer my question above: Why do you think it is not [safe]?

johnnyc

monument wrote: »

Just like your nonsense about Belgium, you're incorrect here too. Try looking up official stats rather than some random website with just a few links to newspaper articles.

that site gives you a synopsis from the wide range of all traffic deaths. Show us the link to your offical stats and the synopsis of cyclist deaths.

monument wrote: »

Oh, and jonhnyc, if you do think cycling is unsafe please answer my question above: Why do you think it is not [safe]?

Momument why dont i believe cycling isn't safe theres a combination of factors i name 2
1. congested roads> cycle lanes would increase students cycling to schools,colleges and people cycling to work. But people are worried about there children being hit by a car.
2. education> Which should start at school from the basics of having a helmet, rules of the road and the maintenance of a bike(brakes,tires etc

BostonB

johnnyc wrote: »

Ok BostonB theres a few children who do cycle....but the vast majority are dropped off & collected by their mother. Why is this 1 factor would be the safety of there children. Thats why you notice that traffic is a whole lot better in the summer then the winter no school runs. Thats why i believe a simple tax on cycling could help to improve safety and also schools have to educate children about safety in cycling. Through a safety campaign with the parents on board, this could and would improve congestion & health of there children

So by that logic they must drive instead of walking because walking is dangerous too. Or get public transport Or maybe it's just peoples nature to take the percieved easy option.

BostonB

Of course some roads are dangerous no argument. Also there is a perception of danger regardless if it's correct. Quality cycle lanes make a big difference to both in my opinion.

a_ominous

I used to cycle but stopped as I broke my wrist after a fall caused by pedestrian crossing 7 laned road, 10 foot from a footbridge. Made cycling painful. Had a 14 km commute each way and took 30-35 mins most days along N4 - no glass in bus lanes but along Phoenix Park, it was dreadful including the parking in cycle lane, even outside Garda boat club

I use a motorbike now and have done for several years. 'Bad weather' is a myth - it rains about 5% of the time at travel times. I haven't got a reference with me, but if any of you think back over the past 2-3 weeks when weather was wet, how often did it rain on the commute?

Company I'm in now has introduced the tax breaks for buying bicycles. But only one shower. It is a factor in people's decision about cycling. Toilet cubicles are usually too small to change comfortably and wet floors aren't pleasant.

I took bicycle in twice this year, a shorter 10k spin. First day out I had a fall on ice and just had bruising on shoulder. No biggie. Second time out thru housing estates, had idiot coming out of one estate ignoring foot path and cycle lane, just looking at road for cars. That was a close one. I think the danger factor is a serious one. Many people I know who cycled in younger days won't now because they have safer alternatives.

I liked cycling because it was essentially free exercise (bike paid for iteself in months), doesn't eat into recreational time.

monument

johnnyc wrote: »

that site gives you a synopsis from the wide range of all traffic deaths. Show us the link to your offical stats and the synopsis of cyclist deaths.

First, collecting stats from searching a load of primary news reports is unreliably. Secondly, I don't know what you mean by 'your' official stats, the RSA, the CSO, and the police compile such stats, not me.

Can't quickly find national figures, but for Dublin, from the RSA's Safety in Irish Cities 1997 - 2006 [pdf], here is this data:

Road fatalities (cyclists) in Dublin City, 1997-2006
1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
6 5 2 2 4 4 0 2 3 3

Killed and seriously injured (cyclists) in Dublin City, 1997-2006
1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
22 18 11 12 10 9 7 6 7 9

johnnyc wrote: »

...from the basics of having a helmet, rules of the road and the maintenance of a bike(brakes,tires etc

There is no scientific reasoning for helmets for commuting-like cycling. The pro-helmet research out there is highly disputed, is limited in its method and scope, and makes it self invalid by mixing all sorts of cycling together (ie commuting, racing, extrema sports). There is a number of bits of research which claims helmets make cycling less safe, including one which found motorists drive closer to cyclists with helmets.

Thus your perception of cycling being unsafe seems to stem from fear from scaremongering from people and groups like the pro-helmet lobby and those who go along with them, and have done in most English speaking counties. And if you want to talk about following countries which have high levels of cycling than start with forgetting about the helmet scaremongering.

johnnyc wrote: »

Momument why dont i believe cycling isn't safe theres a combination of factors i name 2
1. congested roads> cycle lanes would increase students cycling to schools,colleges and people cycling to work. But people are worried about there children being hit by a car.
2. education> Which should start at school from the basics of having a helmet, rules of the road and the maintenance of a bike(brakes,tires etc

Those are ways to improve things and I agree with them (bar the helmet bit), but the question still stands: Why do you think cycling is dangerous?

BostonB

Cycling fashion is pretty scary.

johnnyc

monument wrote: »

There is no scientific reasoning for helmets for commuting-like cycling. The pro-helmet research out there is highly disputed, is limited in its method and scope, and makes it self invalid by mixing all sorts of cycling together (ie commuting, racing, extrema sports). There is a number of bits of research which claims helmets make cycling less safe, including one which found motorists drive closer to cyclists with helmets.

Thus your perception of cycling being unsafe seems to stem from fear from scaremongering from people and groups like the pro-helmet lobby and those who go along with them, and have done in most English speaking counties. And if you want to talk about following countries which have high levels of cycling than start with forgetting about the helmet scaremongering.



Those are ways to improve things and I agree with them (bar the helmet bit), but the question still stands: Why do you think cycling is dangerous?

Ok point taken about car accidents as cyclist involve receive multiple injuries. But as a safety measure if you fell off the bike and hit your head against the kerb a helmet will save u life.

Look monument i am a avid cyclist completed the ring of kerry,i cycle alot but to get a new generation into cycling, parents are rightly worried about there sons or daughter cycling on the roads of today over congested ,so cycle lanes along with a campaign in the schools where parents concerns could be dealt with is the way to go? what u think?

BostonB

Why rightly worried?

monument

johnnyc wrote: »

But as a safety measure if you fell off the bike and hit your head against the kerb a helmet will save u life.

If such falls were a high risk for cyclists, than Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany and other countries where cycling helmets are by less than 10% or 5% and there are up to and above 40% commuting cycling should have high numbers of cyclists killed and seriously injured. But they don't. These countries' main danger areas, just as ours is, seem to be junctions and motor traffic.

The probability of such an accident -- with commuting and cycling down to the shops -- is so low it's comparable to walking.

Look monument i am a avid cyclist completed the ring of kerry,i cycle alot but to get a new generation into cycling, parents are rightly worried about there sons or daughter cycling on the roads of today over congested ,so cycle lanes along with a campaign in the schools where parents concerns could be dealt with is the way to go? what u think?

Roads can and should be improved for cyclists, but the scaremongering also needs to stop. And, yes, as BostonB asked, why do you think they are *rightly* worried?

seamus

johnnyc wrote: »

But as a safety measure if you fell off the bike and hit your head against the kerb a helmet will save u life.

So why not eliminate kerbs? They present a hazard for all road users, not just cyclists.

That's me being facetious btw, I'm really just echoing monument's argument - when's the last time you've heard of anyone killed by landing on a kerb?

Stark

GRAPHIC CONTENT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umnR-lp1o1A

Now if he was wearing a helmet...

BostonB

seamus wrote: »

So why not eliminate kerbs? They present a hazard for all road users, not just cyclists.

That's me being facetious btw, I'm really just echoing monument's argument - when's the last time you've heard of anyone killed by landing on a kerb?

I heard of one about 20 yrs ago or more. Kid standing with bike, with their friends fell off bike and struck head on curve. Mind you I've heard of pedestrians falling on kerbs, and broken pavement etc. A lot more. I'd say people getting killed by it is rare. Seems a lot more common in assaults, people get struck then fall and hit their head off something. Do accidents like this appear in cycling stats though?

johnnyc

seamus wrote: »

So why not eliminate kerbs? They present a hazard for all road users, not just cyclists.

http://books.google.ie/books?id=sy8GzUwEMIQC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=kerbs+purpose&source=bl&ots=ytCdRF5Lvg&sig=vhe1LP81py7GFsjswthq_GXq8Go&hl=en&ei=MHkdSvD0HcTLjAeA2rmRDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

One of the functions of a kerb is
d) assist in prventing vehicles from mounting the footway( in other words saving peoples life by preventing cars from mounting a pathway)



This is a reference why i believe helmets do save life.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/20/2575505.htm

monument

johnnyc wrote: »

This is a reference why i believe helmets do save life.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/20/2575505.htm

That article does not even mention helmets. If I can find a story about somebody getting a head injury by tripping while walking on the street and another tripping at home will you wear a helmet all the time then?

johnnyc

monument wrote: »

That article does not even mention helmets. If I can find a story about somebody getting a head injury by tripping while walking on the street and another tripping at home will you wear a helmet all the time then?

same story with a different reference....for u pleasure
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10573443

Gavin

johnnyc wrote: »

same story with a different reference....for u pleasure
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10573443

By your logic, all doctors should carry drills around with them.

I can empirically state that, given I have cycled through Irelands busiest urban traffic zone in rush hour and lived to tell the tale, 4 or 5 days a week for several years, that cycling is not dangerous. There is a perception of danger, propagated by uninformed people advocating helmets, high-viz etc.

_Kaiser_

I voted "need my car for work" which is true - but even if it wasn't I still wouldn't cycle (or use public transport for that matter).

With the idiocy I see on the roads every day you'd want to be feeling very brave to be taking to the streets on a push bike, especially if you live outside a major town/city. Plus I've done the public transport option for too many years before I bought a car, and I can tell you that even with traffic, it beats standing around waiting for a bus/train that may or may not show.. and if it does it'll be late, or early and you'll miss it anyway!

Someone on the first few pages got slated for driving a km to work, but as he said, why shouldn't he? He pays his tax and insurance etc and he's just as entitled to use the roads he pays towards as anyone who walks or cycles.

Just because we have a bunch of out of touch tree huggers in government at the moment (well for the next few weeks anyway, after which I predict we'll have a new one!), doesn't mean it's suddenly wrong to want or use a car - especially when the public transportation options are so poor (again, even more so outside Dublin).

It's simply the latest extension of the PC crap that our country has become bogged down in, and I manage quite well without that thanks!

*goes out to lovingly pat his big, space-consuming, polluting, 2L Diesel Passat* :P

Quint

Gavin wrote: »

By your logic, all doctors should carry drills around with them.

I can empirically state that, given I have cycled through Irelands busiest urban traffic zone in rush hour and lived to tell the tale, 4 or 5 days a week for several years, that cycling is not dangerous. There is a perception of danger, propagated by uninformed people advocating helmets, high-viz etc.

By the same logic, i've been driving a motorcycle for 10 years, doing at least 15,000km a year, about half through dublin traffic. Amount of times I needed a helmet: zero!
I cycle to work and don't wear a helmet. I won't quote websites with dodgy data on helmets, but tell you the real reason people (including me) don't wear them: cos they look stupid!

Mucco

I cycle, it's about 12km each way.
Amongst the reasons are:

Consistency: My journey takes the same amount of time every day to within 5 mins.
Speed: My commute is heavy city centre traffic, only motorbikes are faster (even then, I keep up most of the time).
Cost: My bike cost €200, maintenance is a few inner tubes + new brake blocks.
Convenience: If I go to the shops/pub/friends after work, I can park just outside.
Exercise: No need to join a gym

I'm fortunate, I can take a shower at work, so am immune to the occasional rain shower.
I never feel any danger, though I acknowledge a lot of people do. Maybe training would help here. John Franklin's book is very good:
http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/

amtc

Because I never learnt how to cycle a bike!

Ciaran500

amtc wrote: »

Because I never learnt how to cycle a bike!

Never too late to learn.

Paparazzo

I start cycling to work about 2 months ago. Haven't been on a bike for about 15 years before that. First thing I noticed is how uncomfortable the saddle was! Who designs these things? Perverts?

faceman

Before i got into the world of motorised transport I used to cycle everywhere, college, work etc etc. None of my employers or colleges had showers.

I hate cycling though. Sure i was fitter and all that, but i still hated cycling. Bit of rain is fine but when cycling uphill into the wind or sitting in college/work, thinking feck it Im going to have to cycle in that later, wasnt pleasant. There wasnt as many cycle corridors back then as there is now yet i never really felt in any danger so id imagine nowadays, it must feel the same and/or better.

My first mode of motorised transport was a motorbike and I never looked back. nowadays Id chose it over driving my car, its much faster than cycling/driving/public transport depending on your commute.

Cycling to work doesnt make you any more fitter than people who dont cycle to work but do exercise anyway. Even at the gym, i would chose any other cardio device over cycling.

Im not trying to diss cycling or cyclists even though it probably sounds like I am. (I even forgive the plonker who nearly got himself and his fellow cyclists killed when cycling in front of me yesterday). I just dont enjoy cycling.

As a foot note, my current journey is over 8km. Although for about 2 months I did begrudgingly cycle after i was in a traffic accident with no alternate mode of motorised transport.

johnnyc

Gavin wrote: »

By your logic, all doctors should carry drills around with them.

diffo black and decker every surgery should have one in case of emergency