Opera centre again

lebowsky

Looks like it won't be going ahead any time soon.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=THE+MARKET-qqqs=themarket-qqqid=41669-qqqx=1.asp

zuroph

someone needs to go to jail for the scam that was perpetrated here.

talkingclock

Does this REALLY come as a surprise???

johnmolloy554

zuroph wrote: »

someone needs to go to jail for the scam that was perpetrated here.

What scam?

Kess73

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

What scam?

I would guess that he means the Anglo Irish link to it, given all the improper dealings that bank that have come to light and seem to be coming to light with every month that passes.

zuroph

nope, the first group forcing through a compulsory purchase order with the aid of the council, forcing through planning permission, then selling an "idea" to someone else. they never had any intention of building it IMO, just saw a weak council and an opportunity to make a fortune for doing nothing.

johnmolloy554

zuroph wrote: »

nope, the first group forcing through a compulsory purchase order with the aid of the council, forcing through planning permission, then selling an "idea" to someone else. they never had any intention of building it IMO, just saw a weak council and an opportunity to make a fortune for doing nothing.

They never did a C.P.O. on the site and they never forced through planning either. The Council recognised that Limerick city needed a large commercial centre to compete with other cities and out of town centres (i.e. the Crescent) and was favourable to the development as they have been to many others. The original Belfast developer Suneil Sharma, didn't sell on "the idea" (as you put it), he put the whole site together and sold on the development as it quite common.

In my opinion, having Anglo (now the safest bank in the country) in for 50% of the development means it has a much better chance of eventually going ahead. Some good images in the brochure http://www.operacentre.ie/

Kess73

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

They never did a C.P.O. on the site and they never forced through planning either. The Council recognised that Limerick city needed a large commercial centre to compete with other cities and out of town centres (i.e. the Crescent) and was favourable to the development as they have been to many others. The original Belfast developer Suneil Sharma, didn't sell on "the idea" (as you put it), he put the whole site together and sold on the development as it quite common.

In my opinion, having Anglo (now the safest bank in the country) in for 50% of the development means it has a much better chance of eventually going ahead. Some good images in the brochure http://www.operacentre.ie/

Some of the images in the brochure are indeed impressive, but a brochure is no guarantee that the centre will ever be finished or even started.


The Coonagh shopping centre had much fanfare around it also, that it was going to be a massive shopping centre and that it had all the units prebooked by tenants in advance. To this day the only tenant is Tesco and the 17 units beside it are still vacant, with the only three tenants who had an interest having pulled out, and the retail park beside it is also empty.


The Dublin road shopping centre was another with huge hype and was going to be the biggest in Munster and that has stalled badly also.


It seems to be a Limerick thing for the council to go on and on about all these great shopping centres for years and years and each time it gets close to the actual dates they claimed it gets pushed back another few years.


I find it sad to see this happen in Limerick when in other cities, Cork and Galway in particular, projects like these seem to go up quickly and generally get a number of tenants signing on from the start.


I would tend to think that it is because of poor planning and the urge of many to need to get their face in the paper that these things get so hyped up here over and over, only to rarely have any end result.


Realistically there is only one shopping centre in Limerick that is any good and that is the Crescent Shopping centre, the ones in Roxborough, Parkway, Jetland, and Castletroy are just a supermarket with a few units tacked on. Arthurs Quay has never really been given a strong push in terms of premium brands, despite it being smack in the city centre and having a car park.

Too much greed by developers who keep building retail parks and them sitting empty for months afterwards, plus no leadership or any tangible plan from the city planners will lead to years and years of this in Limerick, even after this economic downturn ends.

4tothefloor

At this stage the developers wouldn't get anywhere near the original proposed rents that they would have been targeting when the project was originally designed and mooted. The arse has fallen out of retail and every retailer from the independent to the multinational are now cutting back and being very prudent. When you compare the cost of building this to the fall in achievable rents you'd wonder is it feasible at the moment. I somehow doubt that the likes of Next, Zara, River Island, Debenhams and all the usual suspects etc who Opera would be depending on to fill it's units would be too keen on opening another Limerick store at high rents in the current climate. Three years time could be a different story of course, still doubt it myself though.

irishvamp90

how many new shops do we need/do they expect to go in there?my only idea is do something like the english market in cork,all small independent shops rented out at low cost,a food hall would be great

johnmolloy554

4tothefloor wrote: »

At this stage the developers wouldn't get anywhere near the original proposed rents that they would have been targeting when the project was originally designed and mooted. The arse has fallen out of retail and every retailer from the independent to the multinational are now cutting back and being very prudent. When you compare the cost of building this to the fall in achievable rents you'd wonder is it feasible at the moment. I somehow doubt that the likes of Next, Zara, River Island, Debenhams and all the usual suspects etc who Opera would be depending on to fill it's units would be too keen on opening another Limerick store at high rents in the current climate. Three years time could be a different story of course, still doubt it myself though.

Very good point on the falling rents, but what a lot of people forget is that building costs have also fallen by up to 40%. A long term project like this (2-3 year build and fit out) would be able to build a hell of lot cheaper than anyone else at the moment.

As I said in my previous post, having Anglo in for 50% is a good thing. Someone will do this development eventually, when is the question. Certainly having objections from Cait Ni Cheallachain since day 1 has not helped this project and you could argue that it has cost the City a lot of jobs.

The ironic thing is she objected to the development on the basis of heritage of Georgian Limerick etc (which is a good thing) but the buildings on Patrick St aren't a great example of it. I was speaking to a local businessman who knows her and her family. He said the real reason behind her objections was the fact that her father, also an architect designed the Cahill May Roberts building (that eyesore) and if the development went ahead, that building would be demolished.

Aidric

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

He said the real reason behind her objections was the fact that her father, also an architect designed the Cahill May Roberts building (that eyesore) and if the development went ahead, that building would be demolished.

That's a disgrace if it's true. That CMR building is an absolute eyesore and has been for well over a decade.

Itsdacraic

All the retail park developments were absolutely MENTAL. Anybody with a brain in their heads could see that Limerick was over supplied with them and they were killing the city center. The council on one hand were approving spending money to improve the city center and with the other had were approving developments to take more and more people away from the city center.

The Opera center was only the large scale shopping center type development that should have been given the go ahead in the past 3/4 years. The Government (NAMA) is going to end owning alot of these developments within the next year I'd say. A finished and fully occupied Opera center aligned with the development of a 7 day Milk Market would have provided a massive boost to the city center. it would have made Limerick a big shopping destination for people from Kerry, Clare, Tipp etc. Whereas now they will still travel to Cork, Dublin and even Galway as there is far more shops available in the city centers.

tommy249

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Developers-say-Opera-Centre-will.5257443.jp

goingpostal

A big part of the problem is we have three city/county councils administering what is one city and competing with each other for development. If we had one corporation administering the entire urban area of Limerick, it would make things way simpler, and make strategic planning for the entire area much easier. Too many cooks spoiling the broth. Amalgamation of the three councils for the one area will never happen though, coz then we would have one third the amount of incompetent idiot councillors fcuking up our city.

mysterious

Actually the rents would go up if this centre was built, its exactly what the city needs make the city centre a viable place to do business. I'm 90% happy with the new proprosal. Could they not improve the image at bankplace that entrance just looks so out of charactor facing...

Limerick city centre needs a city mall with anchor units to boost footfall and woo back shoopers and retail attractivness into the city.

What are your thoughts on the Opera centre. At this rate, it seems if we dont just get on with it, your left with 6 hectares of shabby boarded up dereliction. There is alot of infill development that needs to be built on regardless this part of town needs investment.

If this goes ahead, Limerick can achieve higher rents to that of Patricks street in Cork eventually... Can architects try and make the the centre mre attractive. IT's an ambituous prooject, but they seriously should mak the Opera centre unique complacent to the surrounding cityscape. Patricks strreet frontage is very impressive imo. I like that this project, but it could be better. if anything its better than been boarded up sitting there. I have tro say Jervis centre is a great sucess and believe me the Opera centre has alot arctectural merit and distinctiveness to it. Inside of the Jervis is very pleasant. But you have to admit there is no shopping mall that comes close to the Opera in mixing the old and new into one complex.

So what are the positives foes outweigh the cons? If the Opera centre can't be produced, when and where will Limerick be able to have a city centre shopping mall? Limerick is not only loosing out to Cork and Galway but it's very own centre in Limerick Crescent...

Guys decide..

seachto7

was in Limk city centre today, and its f**king depressing in there, and seems to be getting worse. Haven't been in a few months, and if anyone wants an incentive to head to australia, walk around the centre...
closed shops, closing down sales etc...
tourists wandering around wondering what it is they are supposed to be looking for....

Stab*City

i think they should scrap the whole idea.. people are complaining we already have too many shopping areas.. that is all there is to do in limerick is shop and drink.. maybe they should leave the shopping to the retail parks and the crescent and the parkway and arthurs key and just turn the city into a business district like alot of major cities have done.. im sure that would generate alot more jobs than a shopping centre in the middle of a ghosttown.. All limerick needs now is for BT to up sticks and its FU**ED.. the city centre is depressing as it is.. why do we even need another shopping complex when we already have so many empty ones!! fair enough an opera hall would be great.. but more shops i think is not the answer.. especially when people have no jobs to earn money to spend..