Alternative Energy Suppliers

The_Conductor

vikingdub wrote: »

Why anyone would want to switch from one state body to another is beyond me. Why not change to Airtricity, the prices are practically the same and at the same time you can feel very smug about being green while saving money.

You can feel smug all you like- your electricity is coming from the same pool as everyone elses. Even 14% of the ESBs output is hydroelectric power (ignoring their international generating capacity).

I.K.Brunel

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

if thats the case, how do the generators make money, are all the sell in prices the same, and do all the suppliers to customers buy from the pool at the same price.

?

Since 1st Nov 2007 all generation output in Ireland (north & south) is mandated to trade in a pool market. Under this arrangement the sale and purchase of electricity is conducted on a gross basis, with all generators/suppliers receiving/paying the same price for electricity sold into/bought via the pool. This pool price varies every half-hour.

That's the theory. It suggests that all electricity suppliers face the same wholesale purchase prices for energy.

The reality is a bit different. Bilateral financing contracts are entered into between generators and suppliers to hedge out the volatility of a pool price that changes every half-hour. Such contracts operate outside the pool system.
So an unregulated business that has a foot in both camps (a generator and a supply operation) can have any internal bilateral financial arrangement they wish - effectively they can decide how they wish to split the profits between the wholesale & retail markets.

A fully regulated entitiy (ESB) cannot do this. Bord Gais is regulated in the gas market, but regarded as an unregulated licenced supplier in the electricity market.
Bord Gais are completing the construction of a generating station in Whitegate, Co Cork which will start operations within the next 12 months.

Meanwhile they have most likely entered bilateral financial contracts with other independant generators of which there are many as apparently ESB now only produces about 40% of the total generation output.
Airtricity are remoured to have plans to launch a "dual fuel" offering soon (i.e. a combined gas/electric deal), and ESB may be looking at a similar approach. Prehaps the Bord Gais move is a pre-emptive defensive move to lock-in their 630,000 gas customers and ensure they have a market for the output of their new generation station.
What I don't understand is how our minister/government thinks it's a good deal for 2 semi-state organisations to compete against each other - would it not be better to have them focus on giving the customers the best possible prices in their own areas of expertise? who exactly is gaining? at what cost?

elainee40

I signed up to Bord Gais Electricity on the 8th April and this morning i got my final bill from ESB

Fnergg

I.K.Brunel wrote: »

.......What I don't understand is how our minister/government thinks it's a good deal for 2 semi-state organisations to compete against each other - would it not be better to have them focus on giving the customers the best possible prices in their own areas of expertise? who exactly is gaining? at what cost?

At the very least, the Regulator - on instructions from the Government - should now remove the regulatory restraints on ESB and let it compete in the retail market on a level basis with Bord Gais and the other suppliers.

This would help to reduce ESB prices still further - at present, ESB is obliged to charge more than its competitors so that the ideologues in the Regulator's office can say that competition is now a reality. It might not be as much a reality were ESB in a position to charge the same as its competitors.

However, we are living in perilous times - people are experiencing real financial hardship and there are hundreds and thousands of them who do not have the option of moving to Bord Gais and Airtricity. They are being forced to pay more for electricity - a basic necessity - so that the Regulator can say he has delivered competition. That is a cynical and socially exclusive approach and one that is utterly at odds with the reality of life in 2009 Ireland. We cannot afford such ideological market engineering. Bring prices down now!


Regards,

Fnergg

I.K.Brunel

a few points to consider:

• I fully agree with your call for competition on a level basis, however the regulator is supposed to be free of political interference - thus the government/minister shouldn't be telling them when to remove regulatory constraints.
• It would be very helpful if the Regulator stated when and under what conditions ESB could be free to compete, then we would all know just how competitive the market might become, and how good a price we might get.
• ESB's regulated prices are supposed to be the cost-reflective correct prices. It suggests that BGES and Airtricity are using profits made elsewhere to undercut & win market share. In the long run this cannot be sustained (& presumably if ESB were free to compete they too couldn't maintain prices lower than the regulated cost-reflective rates).

ccyy123

Hi,

I was trying to register my Bord Gais account online to make my life easier. Filled in my details on the website and waited for the email with my login details. Didn't get the email (should have received within 24 hrs after registration) the next day, so emailed them, that was three days ago. So I suppose I have to ring them now, which was why I want to register my account online, to avoid ringing them. Is anyone having the same problem with them, or is it just me?

Cabaal

Could be just a simple technical error with your registration, these things happen

ccyy123

I emailed them again when I didn't get my login detail, asking them if there's a problem with my registration. Didn't get reply whatsoever.

dudara

Threads merged

dudara

DerKaiser

smccarrick wrote: »

I signed up to switch over on the 2nd of February. I have today received another estimated bill from the ESB, despite ringing them with accurate readings and requesting feedback from Bord Gais as to when I can expect to be transferred. I rang the helpline this afternoon and have been informed that I am a customer and will be billed by them in due course (despite having already received an information pack). The name and address associated with my MPRN are incorrect- which is why I never received my welcome pack (apparently). The guy who took my details had a lot of difficulty understanding my accent- I repeated everything several times to make sure he got it- obviously he didn't.

This is shambles......

2nd of Feb? It went live to the public on the 26th of Feb......

I find your post difficult to understand, never mind your spoken english, poor agent that got you and your exaggerations

DerKaiser

NB

It takes 60 days to transfer, all publications state this....

DerKaiser

vikingdub wrote: »

Why anyone would want to switch from one state body to another is beyond me. Why not change to Airtricity, the prices are practically the same and at the same time you can feel very smug about being green while saving money.

BECAUSE Bord Gais are a semi state body, very tightly regulated by the CER
www.cer.ie

Airtiricity are a private company owned by a British company, Scottish and Southern (Who want to open a nuclear power plant in Ireland)

The telecoms debacle was caused by the fact they were all private companies, not semi state

The_Conductor

DerKaiser wrote: »

2nd of Feb? It went live to the public on the 26th of Feb......

I find your post difficult to understand, never mind your spoken english, poor agent that got you and your exaggerations

You could 'register an interest' from the 2nd, and apply to 'switch over' from the 26th.

My spoken English is fine- the agent I was talking to on the other hand, is a native French speaker, and despite my best efforts could not catch the name and address as I spelt them out (several times).

I have subsequently been talking to both the ESB and Bord Gais- who agree that it appears I may be double billed for the last billing period (2 months)- as despite the fact that I was a 'net customer' of Bord Gais (and I do not know what this term means), that I obviously was not taken off the ESB billing system.

The ESB are now sending me a final bill (based on an accurate meter from me) and closing my account, and are to liaise with Bord Gais as to from which date I am to be considered a customer.

Meanwhile- 'Lucan' has been added to my address by Bord Gais, along with my name- so the paperwork and 'Welcome Pack' should be on their way (I hope).

There is no need to be condescending to me- I do not understand the systems in place for the switchover- I simply followed the instructions as given- and in exchange I am now double billed. They screwed uo. They told me the valid switchover date for me was 4 days after I gave them the meter reading (which is the 3rd of March). The fact that you patently do not understand that I was simply laying out how they messed up- and instead are choosing to poke fun at my English skills, is wholly irrelevant. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be too happy to be double billed for electricity either- money is tight for everyone you know........

Regards,

SMcCarrick

Sizzler

Has anybody been changed over yet or seen a bill from BG for their leccy? I changed over what seems like ages ago but havent seen nowt from them...or a final ESB bill for that matter

Fnergg

smccarrick wrote: »

.....
The ESB are now sending me a final bill (based on an accurate meter from me) and closing my account, and are to liaise with Bord Gais as to from which date I am to be considered a customer......

Regards,

SMcCarrick

That doesn't sound right at all. The ESB do not liase with Bord Gais on such matters - there is no mechanism whereby one supplier can liase directly with another.

The danger for you now - given that you have asked ESB to close your account - is that your premises could be considered unregistered with any supplier and the consequence of that is disconnection of supply.

You need to confirm very definitively with Bord Gais that you are now a registered customer of theirs and have been set up on their billing system as such. Otherwise, your supply could be disconnected due to the failure of Bord Gais to register you. That has already happened to several applicants to Bord Gais.

Regards,

Fnergg

Fnergg

DerKaiser wrote: »

BECAUSE Bord Gais are a semi state body, very tightly regulated by the CER
www.cer.ie

Airtiricity are a private company owned by a British company, Scottish and Southern (Who want to open a nuclear power plant in Ireland)

The telecoms debacle was caused by the fact they were all private companies, not semi state

Bord Gais are only regulated in the gas market - not in electricity.

Scottish and Southern have no wish to open a nuclear plant in Ireland.

Regards,

Fnergg

The_Conductor

Fnergg wrote: »

That doesn't sound right at all. The ESB do not liase with Bord Gais on such matters - there is no mechanism whereby one supplier can liase directly with another.

The danger for you now - given that you have asked ESB to close your account - is that your premises could be considered unregistered with any supplier and the consequence of that is disconnection of supply.

You need to confirm very definitively with Bord Gais that you are now a registered customer of theirs and have been set up on their billing system as such. Otherwise, your supply could be disconnected due to the failure of Bord Gais to register you. That has already happened to several applicants to Bord Gais.

Regards,

Fnergg

Thanks Fnergg,

There was a letter waiting for me when I got home- advising me I have been a Bord Gais customer since the 18th of April (its a simple one page memo- not a welcome pack or anything else). I'm somewhat relieved, but it hasn't satisfactorily answered anything really (though obviously I won't get cut off by the ESB, which is a relief).

I guess things should smooth themselves out over the next billing period (I hope!!!)

Thanks for the PM from the Bord Gais representative too- I really appreciate it.

Shane

rameire

Just a bit of info,
from this friday
gas and electricity prices will be reducing, both by a large amount.
cant remember but about 10% each prob more.

To make sure you are not overcharged,
SUBMIT your METER readings this thursday and friday.
its easy.

otherwise the esb networks and bord gais meter readers, will estimate your meter reading on friday, unless they are actually taking a reading.

edit: dont forget to make a note for yourself, for when the Bill arrives to make sure they put your reading down correctly.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

rameire wrote: »

Just a bit of info,
from this friday
gas and electricity prices will be reducing, both by a large amount.
cant remember but about 10% each prob more.

To make sure you are not overcharged,
SUBMIT your METER readings this thursday and friday.
its easy.

otherwise the esb networks and bord gais meter readers, will estimate your meter reading on friday, unless they are actually taking a reading.

edit: dont forget to make a note for yourself, for when the Bill arrives to make sure they put your reading down correctly.

Yes prices are coming down by 10% but I don't think you can submit a meter reading mid billing period like that. Try it and please let us know how you get on. If you are due for reading at the end of May I don't think you can tell them a reading today for consideration when the new bills issue in early June.

Davy

Colby Stale Creek wrote: »

Yes prices are coming down by 10% but I don't think you can submit a meter reading mid billing period like that. Try it and please let us know how you get on. If you are due for reading at the end of May I don't think you can tell them a reading today for consideration when the new bills issue in early June.

You can submit a reading at anytime. All ESB CS customers should sign up and submit readings online: Register Your Account Online

eden_my_ass

elainee40 wrote: »

I signed up to Bord Gais Electricity on the 8th April and this morning i got my final bill from ESB

I don't get whats going on in that company, you got a turn around of a few weeks, and some of us are still waiting months. Please share your secret with us...seriously! How did you apply, did you follow it up personally...

As an aside, I haven't noticed Bord Gais getting much bad press over this debacle (haven't looked that hard for it either). Are they getting coverage for shameful practices, false advertising ("up to 60 days") and shoddy customer service. I know theres more going on in the world but its no excuse for a semi state company to be acting this pathetically towards their customers.

Fnergg

eden_my_ass wrote: »

I don't get whats going on in that company, you got a turn around of a few weeks, and some of us are still waiting months. Please share your secret with us...seriously! How did you apply, did you follow it up personally...

As an aside, I haven't noticed Bord Gais getting much bad press over this debacle (haven't looked that hard for it either). Are they getting coverage for shameful practices, false advertising ("up to 60 days") and shoddy customer service. I know theres more going on in the world but its no excuse for a semi state company to be acting this pathetically towards their customers.

What will be very interesting to see in the months ahead is how well or otherwise Bord Gais' billing system copes with the 100,000+ domestic customers they will have. They are using the same IT system being used by Northern Ireland Electricity and that company has had major problems with it.

Thankfully, their customer service for registered customers will not be handled by Conduit who seem to be at sea in relation to how the industry rules apply to customers switching suppliers. Conduit are only responsible for the switching process and by all accounts are making a pig's ear of it. Instead, Fexco in Killorglin will handle ongoing customer billing queries and they are an excellent call centre provider - they look after their staff well and ensure proper training is delivered (Conduit fail on both counts). Let's just hope that the billing system can deliver the goods.

Regards,

Fnergg

The_Conductor

smccarrick wrote: »

You could 'register an interest' from the 2nd, and apply to 'switch over' from the 26th.

My spoken English is fine- the agent I was talking to on the other hand, is a native French speaker, and despite my best efforts could not catch the name and address as I spelt them out (several times).

I have subsequently been talking to both the ESB and Bord Gais- who agree that it appears I may be double billed for the last billing period (2 months)- as despite the fact that I was a 'net customer' of Bord Gais (and I do not know what this term means), that I obviously was not taken off the ESB billing system.

The ESB are now sending me a final bill (based on an accurate meter from me) and closing my account, and are to liaise with Bord Gais as to from which date I am to be considered a customer.

Meanwhile- 'Lucan' has been added to my address by Bord Gais, along with my name- so the paperwork and 'Welcome Pack' should be on their way (I hope).

There is no need to be condescending to me- I do not understand the systems in place for the switchover- I simply followed the instructions as given- and in exchange I am now double billed. They screwed uo. They told me the valid switchover date for me was 4 days after I gave them the meter reading (which is the 3rd of March). The fact that you patently do not understand that I was simply laying out how they messed up- and instead are choosing to poke fun at my English skills, is wholly irrelevant. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be too happy to be double billed for electricity either- money is tight for everyone you know........

Regards,

SMcCarrick

Just wanted to thank the Bord Gais representative who PM'ed me as a result of the above post. I am now a Bord Gais customer- and a Welcome Pack and other items are on their way to me in the post. I am not sure what the story is with the handover- given the estimated reading- but I won't be doublebilled one way or the other.

Thankyou.

SMcCarrick

eden_my_ass

Fnergg wrote: »

What will be very interesting to see in the months ahead is how well or otherwise Bord Gais' billing system copes with the 100,000+ domestic customers they will have. They are using the same IT system being used by Northern Ireland Electricity and that company has had major problems with it.

Thankfully, their customer service for registered customers will not be handled by Conduit who seem to be at sea in relation to how the industry rules apply to customers switching suppliers. Conduit are only responsible for the switching process and by all accounts are making a pig's ear of it. Instead, Fexco in Killorglin will handle ongoing customer billing queries and they are an excellent call centre provider - they look after their staff well and ensure proper training is delivered (Conduit fail on both counts). Let's just hope that the billing system can deliver the goods.

Regards,

Fnergg

You seem to be following these threads closely Fnergg, at a guess it seems you may even work in the industry, have you heard of how Airtricity are doing in all this, are they proving more responsive than Bord Gais on switches?

Fnergg

eden_my_ass wrote: »

You seem to be following these threads closely Fnergg, at a guess it seems you may even work in the industry, have you heard of how Airtricity are doing in all this, are they proving more responsive than Bord Gais on switches?

I am very reliably informed that Airtricity appears to have their act together and switches to them are proceeding without any problems. The difficulties are with Bord Gais - the contact centre they are using to handle the Big Switch - Conduit - seems to be singularly uninformed about the basic industry procedures.

Why they chose Conduit for the switch is beyond me - Bord Gais had previously switched their (gas) customer service to Fexco from Conduit presumably because they were unhappy with the levels of service. So why entrust them with the switch?

Regards,

Fnergg

elainee40

i applied to change to bord gais electricity on the 2nd april and got my closing account from esb on monday and received welcome letter from bord gais today

DerKaiser

Bord Gais ARE regulated for electricity, check out www.cer.ie

discostu1

Bord Gais ARE regulated for electricity, check out www.cer.ie

Is their pricing structure,? I understood from what I read ESB couldnt/or were not allowed drop their prices without CER s impremator. I thought John Mullins indicated that Bord Gais were largely in complete control of their price for Electricity??
Maybe I'm wrong

eden_my_ass

Fnergg wrote: »

I am very reliably informed that Airtricity appears to have their act together and switches to them are proceeding without any problems. The difficulties are with Bord Gais - the contact centre they are using to handle the Big Switch - Conduit - seems to be singularly uninformed about the basic industry procedures.

Why they chose Conduit for the switch is beyond me - Bord Gais had previously switched their (gas) customer service to Fexco from Conduit presumably because they were unhappy with the levels of service. So why entrust them with the switch?

Regards,

Fnergg

I can certainly agree with your point about Conduit, spent Friday afternoon between ESB, Bord Gais (Conduit) and the MRSO trying to get to the bottom of the untruths coming from Conduit (i.e. their refusal to take a final reading from me, and insistence that I should give it to my current/old supplier). Speaking to the MRSO agent I was told that they could not comment but recommended filing a complaint and added that they are aware of a number already being filed against Conduit/Bord Gais because of such breaches of regulations. Something tells me that Bord Gais are definitely gonna learn their lesson this time and take their customer service business elsewhere next time, Conduits practices are just plain cowboy tactics.

burly

Hi All,

Bought a house 10 months ago and signed up with ESB, paid 300 deposit. I am thinking about making the switch but am wondering will esb give me back my deposit?
The original conditions were that i would get it back after 14 months of bills paid on time. At the moment i have 10 months, but does this condition apply in the event of me switching?

Thanks