Alternative Energy Suppliers

bungler

benifa wrote: »

Well that sounds like a pretty bad experience all right, I'd certainly be pi$sed off if something like that happened to me.

You shouldn't come on making anti-English slurs though man, not cool.

my mistake didnt mean it as an anti english slur, just meant that at least BG offer the security and have the backing unlike airtricty. also it wasnt just my business aparently it was thousands of companies got screwed too.

Musha

Just got my first BG bill, €60 cheaper than last year saving 30% over all, possible combined with good weather and more energy saving mood Keep it up

Fnergg

bungler wrote: »

my mistake didnt mean it as an anti english slur, just meant that at least BG offer the security and have the backing unlike airtricty. also it wasnt just my business aparently it was thousands of companies got screwed too.

Airtricity are now owned by Scottish & Southern Energy, a major, financially sound, UK utility with a reputation for first class customer service. I would have no fears for their viability.

As regards Bord Gais Energy, my guess is that Bord Gais will sell off their electricity (and gas) supply division in a few years.

Regards,

Fnergg

bungler

Fnergg wrote: »

Airtricity are now owned by Scottish & Southern Energy, a major, financially sound, UK utility with a reputation for first class customer service. I would have no fears for their viability.

As regards Bord Gais Energy, my guess is that Bord Gais will sell off their electricity (and gas) supply division in a few years.

Regards,

Fnergg

i just meant that they are not irish owned. regarding first class customer services i 100% disagree they screwed me for thousands of euro's and were not very helpful when i got onto them. i had to hound them and the rep for weeks beofre they were willing to explain it to me. i dont think this is acceptable at all in business, if your bank over charged you by thousands would you be happy if it took them weeks to come back to you and then they have no reason?

Xennon

What happens in the event of say power line damage, who do you call if say you are with BG?.....And is it he the same scenario as Eircom and BT, where BT have to get Eircom to allow them access to exchanges to carry out any works which takes time.

bungler

Xennon wrote: »

What happens in the event of say power line damage, who do you call if say you are with BG?.....And is it he the same scenario as Eircom and BT, where BT have to get Eircom to allow them access to exchanges to carry out any works which takes time.

this was my main concern because i had huge trouble with the telecoms, after all the hassle with it the irish government took ownership of ESB and BG Networks which means all problems or faults are carried out by ESB Networks which is brilliant and is regualted

MOH

rameire wrote: »

dont forget to get a grant for the upgrade
www.sei.ie for details.

Yep, thanks, just waiting for the after BER and I'll send the forms off.

(Just for anyone else, you have to apply for the grant before you get anything done).

moonboy52

mike65 wrote: »

I'm waiting for Gazprom to enter the market myself

:D:D

i lol'd

sarah+1

Something that has bothered me hugely about the Airtricity ad campaign is their misspelling of the word "switching" in their ads. Ridiculous.

RandomName2

The Airtricity advert is quite annoying...

My house no longer uses electricity supplied by ESB... it uses Airtricity! Sure doesn't electricity sound like airtricity if you really slur it?

Seriously though what does swithcing involve? To either Bord Gais or Airtricity? And, prices aside, would you reccomend it?

Also, while we're on the subject, is there any gas supplier besides Bord Gais? Their prices are a joke!

Birdie086

Bord Gais rang me Thursday before last and offered me the chance to changeover. It was completed with a week. I didnt even think it would be accepted as I owe them over 700euro, between a boiler repair and bills.

sdanseo

I did a bit of door-to-door work on behalf of Airtricity so I can clear up a couple of things:

Airtricity's service is NOT compatible with ESB smart meters and would require them to be removed or discarded and switched back to the direct metering.

Airtricity saves you cash from the day you sign up if you're lucky enough to have a sales rep call to your door and read the meter on the spot (a fact precious few people bothered to listen to let alone appreciate when I was doing it).

Airtricity guarentees 13% discount unti 31/01/10 and then informally guarentees that they'll come down to match a minimum 10% buffer between them and the ESB. We were told to show that last time ESB brought the price down, AT matched it.

The switching involves very little, 5 minute form whether online or at the door. With the former, you save from when someone is arsed reading the meter a while later, same with BG. As for the latter, we carried meter keys to solve that problem instantly :P

Now a lot of the above is probably sales baloney, but it's the official line as we were given.

Jugs82

sarah+1 wrote: »

Something that has bothered me hugely about the Airtricity ad campaign is their misspelling of the word "switching" in their ads. Ridiculous.

To be honest, I think thats deliberate - childsplay and all that!! as in a child wrote it...

sozbox

Switched to Bord Gais, took about 24 hours!! The letter came about a week after the "changeover date".

Vanhalla

ok theres a billion pages here so not going to read them all. but can someone asnwer me this. il be moving into my parents other house, and want to get the esb account switched to my name so i can change over. i heard something about a 300 quid deposit if there is a new name going on the bill. what the hell is that about?
thanks

Fnergg

Vanhalla wrote: »

ok theres a billion pages here so not going to read them all. but can someone asnwer me this. il be moving into my parents other house, and want to get the esb account switched to my name so i can change over. i heard something about a 300 quid deposit if there is a new name going on the bill. what the hell is that about?
thanks

You will be required to pay a €300 refundable deposit or agree to pay by direct debit if you are signing up with ESB Customer Supply. The other suppliers have similar requirements. That is because you are a first time customer with no payment track record. Remember you will be using electricity on credit i.e. you will have consumed it before you will be billed for it and so it is perfectly reasonable for electricity suppliers to seek to protect themselves from bad debt situations.

The direct debit option is the obvious one if you have a bank current account.

Regards,

Fnergg

jaffa20

Fnergg wrote: »

You will be required to pay a €300 refundable deposit or agree to pay by direct debit if you are signing up with ESB Customer Supply. The other suppliers have similar requirements. That is because you are a first time customer with no payment track record. Remember you will be using electricity on credit i.e. you will have consumed it before you will be billed for it and so it is perfectly reasonable for electricity suppliers to seek to protect themselves from bad debt situations.

The direct debit option is the obvious one if you have a bank current account.

Regards,

Fnergg

ESB waive this fee i think if you pay by direct debit. Bord gais charge you 400euro when signing up or if you pay by direct debit it's 200euro (way too much if you ask me).

Kotek Besar

Fnergg wrote: »

You will be required to pay a €300 refundable deposit or agree to pay by direct debit if you are signing up with ESB Customer Supply. The other suppliers have similar requirements. That is because you are a first time customer with no payment track record. Remember you will be using electricity on credit i.e. you will have consumed it before you will be billed for it and so it is perfectly reasonable for electricity suppliers to seek to protect themselves from bad debt situations.

The direct debit option is the obvious one if you have a bank current account.

Regards,

Fnergg

You're right, but imo - the policy is b0llocks.

"That is because you are a first time customer with no payment track record."
Not necessarily. Being a tenant does not equal being a first time customer with no payment track record. Tenants move house.

"perfectly reasonable for electricity suppliers to seek to protect themselves from bad debt situations."
Of course. But why are tenants discriminated against and labelled as high risk?

For the record, since moving to Ireland 4 years ago, I've lived in 4 different properties, all rented. I've had gas and electricity accounts with the ESB, Bord Gáis and Airtricity. I have always paid by DD. No bill has ever been outstanding, everything paid on time and in full. I've never paid a deposit - why? Because I've always told them I'm a home owner, when asked. I will not be discriminated against because I rent instead of own.

Cabaal

benifa wrote: »

I will not be discriminated against because I rent instead of own.

Statistically your are a potential liability, as such utility companys are entitled to protect themselfs from potentially being out of pocket.

A home owner is statistically much less likely to default on money owned as they can be tracked down much more easily then somebody renting.

Nothing illegal about this

Vanhalla

so you still have to pay a deposit with bord gais even if your paying by direct debit? feck that. is that the same with airtricity?

Kotek Besar

Cabaal wrote: »

Statistically your are a potential liability, as such utility companys are entitled to protect themselfs from potentially being out of pocket.

A home owner is statistically much less likely to default on money owned as they can be tracked down much more easily then somebody renting.

Nothing illegal about this

Where are these statistics of which you speak?

Fnergg

benifa wrote: »

You're right, but imo - the policy is b0llocks.

"That is because you are a first time customer with no payment track record."
Not necessarily. Being a tenant does not equal being a first time customer with no payment track record. Tenants move house.

"perfectly reasonable for electricity suppliers to seek to protect themselves from bad debt situations."
Of course. But why are tenants discriminated against and labelled as high risk?

For the record, since moving to Ireland 4 years ago, I've lived in 4 different properties, all rented. I've had gas and electricity accounts with the ESB, Bord Gáis and Airtricity. I have always paid by DD. No bill has ever been outstanding, everything paid on time and in full. I've never paid a deposit - why? Because I've always told them I'm a home owner, when asked. I will not be discriminated against because I rent instead of own.

ESB doesn't discriminate: the same terms apply to a houseowner.

It all comes down to whether or not you have been a registered customer previously. If you have, and have a good payment record, you will not be charged any deposit and while you will be encouraged to pay by direct debit it will not be mandatory.

If you have not been a customer you will have to pick one or other option. It's no use saying you were paying the bill for your previous address but that it was in another person's name (e.g. the landlord). You were either a registered customer previously or you were not.

Regards,

Fnergg

stefano67

Look at your last ESB bill and check price per 1kWh.
In June, price dropped from 16.40 to 14.55 cents on my bill wiht domestic tariff. This is approx 11-12 % drop.

Now compare prices offered by Bord Gais and their so called big discounts.

https://www.thebigswitch.ie/how-much-can-i-save.htm

ESB rate: 16.51

Bord Gais:
- min 10 % discounts: 14.86 (more expensiv ethan my current ESb rate)
- 12% disocunt: 14.53 (0.02 cent cheaper than ESB, almost zero % difference)
- 14 % discount: approx 2% cheaper than ESB.

Then below in smaller fonts:
- VAT is included at 13.5%
- In all cases a standing charge of €104.40 which we pay to ESB Networks is included in the calculations.
- Public Service Obligation rebate applies and all customers will receive a credit of €2.17 per month end.
*The discount stated is off the applicable ESB domestic tariff unit rate and applies to the first year's consumption. Thereafter the Bord Gáis Energy standard discount tariff will apply which is guaranteed to be at least 5% below ESB unit rates for years two and three of this offer. The standing charge is not discounted. Terms and conditions apply.
1first year saving based on a customer presently on a Urban 24 hour tariff and an average annual consumption of 5,591kWh


So, there's no 14% discount, but only 2 % max. Additionally, in Terms and Conditions Bord Gais sais Distribution Service charges will be paid to ESB by Bord Gais and this will be included in the bill. This will cost maybe higher than is currently with ESB. Also, standing charge on my ESB bill is 25.20 cents per day, so will be 92 EUR per year and Bord Gais mentioned 104.40 EUR (a bit higher).
All in all, price of the 1kwh is not much different on the market, but marketing tricks showed illusion fo 14% discount. But they try to hide Distribution Services by ESB that are independent from Bord gais and may be higher when you switch.

I.K.Brunel

stefano67 wrote: »

Look at your last ESB bill and check price per 1kWh.
In June, price dropped from 16.40 to 14.55 cents on my bill wiht domestic tariff. This is approx 11-12 % drop.

Now compare prices offered by Bord Gais and their so called big discounts.

https://www.thebigswitch.ie/how-much-can-i-save.htm

ESB rate: 16.51

Bord Gais:
- min 10 % discounts: 14.86 (more expensiv ethan my current ESb rate)
- 12% disocunt: 14.53 (0.02 cent cheaper than ESB, almost zero % difference)
- 14 % discount: approx 2% cheaper than ESB.

Then below in smaller fonts:
- VAT is included at 13.5%
- In all cases a standing charge of €104.40 which we pay to ESB Networks is included in the calculations.
- Public Service Obligation rebate applies and all customers will receive a credit of €2.17 per month end.
*The discount stated is off the applicable ESB domestic tariff unit rate and applies to the first year's consumption. Thereafter the Bord Gáis Energy standard discount tariff will apply which is guaranteed to be at least 5% below ESB unit rates for years two and three of this offer. The standing charge is not discounted. Terms and conditions apply.
1first year saving based on a customer presently on a Urban 24 hour tariff and an average annual consumption of 5,591kWh


So, there's no 14% discount, but only 2 % max. Additionally, in Terms and Conditions Bord Gais sais Distribution Service charges will be paid to ESB by Bord Gais and this will be included in the bill. This will cost maybe higher than is currently with ESB. Also, standing charge on my ESB bill is 25.20 cents per day, so will be 92 EUR per year and Bord Gais mentioned 104.40 EUR (a bit higher).
All in all, price of the 1kwh is not much different on the market, but marketing tricks showed illusion fo 14% discount. But they try to hide Distribution Services by ESB that are independent from Bord gais and may be higher when you switch.

Welcome to the Board - that's quite a statement for your first post! Unfortunately it's got a lot of inaccuracies, and you've probably relied on an out of date BG website for your figures.

FACT 1: Bord Gais are presently offering at least 10% off the ESB's unit (kWh) rate.

FACT 2:Bord Gais charges the same rate as ESB for the Standing Charge. (they are misrepresenting it as a cost being passed to ESB Networks - only a portion of it relates to Network charges). Also €92 + VAT = €104.40!
FACT 3: For now, the regulator (CER) won't permit ESB to offer a competitive tariff.

ESB reduced the unit rate on 1st May 2009 by 11.3% and will reduce it further on 1st Oct next by 3.1%. BG is still offering at least 10% off, but it must be very unlikely that they can keep this offer on the table for much longer. Sign up if you want to get another 10-14% savings.
The electricty tariff year starts on 1st Oct - so in theory all suppliers face similar upstream costs (i.e. wholesale electricity purchases, network charges, etc) and only have scope to differentiate on their own operations costs.

Has anyone stopped to consider how BG are funding the discounts?

The_Conductor

I.K.Brunel wrote: »

Has anyone stopped to consider how BG are funding the discounts?

Yes- they are buying wholesale and selling retail. You don't really think Bord Gais are paying the same per unit KWH as the residential users? Thats how they're funding it.

I.K.Brunel

smccarrick wrote: »

Yes- they are buying wholesale and selling retail. You don't really think Bord Gais are paying the same per unit KWH as the residential users? Thats how they're funding it.

I'm aware of the differences between retail and wholesale. What I'm trying to get is some insight into how BG can discount the retail prices so heavily if they face the same upstream costs as ESB (upstream = wholesale + network charges).

Since Nov 2007 all generators must sell into a pool market and all suppliers must buy from the same pool. Effectively they all face the same price. If BG and ESB have the same (or very similar) upstream costs then how can BG fund a 10% discount?
Are gas customers funding it?
Can BG continue this discount?

The_Conductor

The regulator quite simply doesn't allow ESB to charge a lower rate to retail customers- in order to provide a large margin. The idea behind this is if there is a large margin- it'll encourage other businesses to come in and set up here- and in time through competitive processes, drive down prices. Obviously its a crock of bull, but thats the thought behind it.

I.K.Brunel

The margin allowed by the regulator to ESB is only 1.3% of turnover.

The_Conductor

I.K.Brunel wrote: »

The margin allowed by the regulator to ESB is only 1.3% of turnover.

Of turnover- not operating costs......
Their operating costs are a fraction of their turnover.

I.K.Brunel

If their margin is 1.3% of turnover and a typical household spends €1,000 pa on their electricity bill then the profit margin per householder is €13.
BG are offering the same typical housholder a discount to the value of €90 approx.

Go figure!