Apartment Still Using 50w Power with Everything Off, Suggestions as to Problem?

blobert

Hello,

Since moving into a new rental apartment our bills (gas and electricity) have been incredibly high, 4 times higher in the case of the gas and about twice as high with the electricity. I think there is a fault with the gas boiler which we are going to get the landlord to fix but I'm having more difficulty diagnosing the problem with the electricity.

I bought an OWL energy monitor and with everything switched off that I can (including fridge freezer etc) the place seems to be using 50-60w of power at all times. The only thing I can think of is the alarm but I doubt it would draw that much power. There is also a loud buzzing/humming sound from a grey plastic box beside the immersion which is also hot to touch; perhaps this is faulty and using a bit of power.

I think the one of the main draws of the power is that the fridge freezer is old and uses about 190w constantly, this alone is going to cost about €24 a month. Do you think it reasonable to ask the landlord to get a more efficient one? The problem is it is built into the cupboards and would be expensive to replace, the landlord is a nice man but seems to be very relaxed in terms of maintaining the place or getting repairs done. Hence I'd imagine the problems with the gas boiler, are due to the fact it has never been serviced.

Any advice re the background power usage would be much appreciated. I want to be able to identify what the problem is before contacting the landlord about this, as a vague complaint that my electricity bill is too high is not going to be much good.

Thanks

arse..biscuits

Well did you switch each circuit off one at a time at the board and see which circuit is using the 50W?

The fridge probably doesn't use 190W constantly. It probably turns on and off as temperature dictates. Making sure the seals are making the fridge airtight can mean the fridge holds its temperature longer and turns on less.

kmick

Loads of hassle to get all these things fixed. Just move into a more modern place. There are a LOT around according to daft.

seamus

Mate of mine's mum got a leccy bill for €1000 last month. Got someone in to check it and they found the new electric shower had been installed incorrectly and was eating up the juice. Have you anything like that - is there an electric water heater somewhere you're not aware of?

blobert

Thanks for the replies.

Will check which circuit it's on later, have not done this yet.

Really like the apartment and location so am not keen to move. The place was built in 1992, I suspect very little has been changed since then.

The boiler heats the water in the immersion, but there is a separate switch to heat it electrically, this is off. It's the loud buzzing that makes me think there is a problem in this cupboard though.

I think the main source of the extra cost is the inefficient fridge/freezer coupled with the 50w mystery drain.

Any other advice would be much appreciated, am going to call the landlord about it later.

Thanks

Pete67

Is the Owl meter accurate? If you switch off the main incomer switch at the consumer unit does it read zero? If so then at least you know the mystery 50W is real. Try and narrow it down by turning off each MCB in turn and see if you can find it that way.

The gray box beside the immersion sounds odd - can you post a pic? When you say immersion, do you mean the hot water storage cylinder? If so the gray box that is buzzing is probably a motorised valve and should only be on when the central heating is running - assuming that you do not have an all electric heating system.

blobert

Thanks for the reply. The meter seems fairly accurate, I turned the power off at the fuse box and got a zero reading, I put on appliances I know the power consumption of and it reflects this fairly accurately.

Will take a pic of this grey box later. The system is unusual in that the gas boiler seems to heat the water in the hot water storage cylinder 1st then comes out of this into the radiators. There is an option to heat the water independantly through the electric immersion but I have this switched off. I also need to work out how to cut the water supply to the radiators alltogether as the summer is here, but I'll save that for another post:)

Thanks

cast_iron

blobert wrote: »

I think the main source of the extra cost is the inefficient fridge/freezer coupled with the 50w mystery drain.

Why do you think the fridge is the problem? That would be a fairly typical power draw for a fridge. Also, your calculation of €24 per month for the fridge is off - it's much less.

blobert wrote: »

I also need to work out how to cut the water supply to the radiators alltogether as the summer is here, but I'll save that for another post:)

Well turning the radiators off at their own valves would stop any flow of water, so I'm not sure of the benefit there??

Since moving into a new rental apartment our bills (gas and electricity) have been incredibly high, 4 times higher in the case of the gas and about twice as high with the electricity.

I think this is the root of your problem. You're in a new place, that requires a different amount of power than your last place. Quite simply, the new apartment may well just require more power to keep to the levels you are used to compared to the old apartment.

blobert

Here's the box.

As I say it's buzzing loudly and hot to the touch:

Pete67

OK, the gray box is a motorised valve - it controls the flow of water from the boiler to the heating coil in the cylinder - when the cylinder heats up to temperature (as set by the thermstat just visible in the second pic) the valve closes and stops the flow. At least that is how it should work. You can test it by reducing the setting of the thermostat, when it clicks it is set to the temp of the water in the cylinder and the valve should close - you may hear a whirring noise as it closes and then the buzzing should stop. It is unlikely that the motor in the valve uses 50W though. More like 5W. Set the thermostat back to 60C afterwards. This valve should only be powered up when the central heating boiler is on and the water in the cylinder needs heating. If it's on all the time it is not wired correctly.

Davy

Looks like your motorised valve

dingding

Davy wrote: »

Looks like your central heating pump

It is not a pump, it is a motorised valve. You can see the schematic from it on the top. I have similar ones in my house. The heat will be a combination of the heat of the coil in the valve, and the hot water in the pipe transfering heat into the Valve. All the heat you are feeling may not be generated electrically.

WIth the 50Watt would it be something like your PC or laptop left switched on ?

Davy

sorry ye wasn't thinking for a sec

Pete67

Maybe a light left on in the attic? could be a 60W bulb.

blobert

Thanks for all the replies guys, I really appreciate it.

Did a bit of messing about with the various switches on the fuseboard:


Not an expert on this but the MCBs are on the right and the RCDs? are the 3 on the left?

With everything off that I can put off there is still a 48w draw

3 on left off and 1st 2 on right off = 0w
3 on left on and 1st 2 on right off = 32w
3 on left on and 1st 2 on right on 48w

The MCB on the far right controls the alarm it seems, when you switch it off the alarm sounds outside. This suggests the alarm has a battery, perhaps trickle charging this is eating some power?

I think I can rule out that noisy grey box as on some of the combinations it is off (ie not buzzing) and I'm still using 48w.

Should I just accept this and put it down to it being a combo of the alarm, intercom etc or is it something I can easily eliminate.

I've obtained a seperate freezer that seems to be more efficient than the one here so by knocking that old one one off I should be able to reduce the bill a bit.

Any further info would be much appreciated.

Oh and I'm pretty sure I have everything plugged out, there is no attic with a bulb on, only thing I cannot access is a built in microwave that has its display on butting I'm guessing that is insignificant

cast_iron

You're making too much of this 50w. It's costing you about 15c per day, ie. €4.50 odd per month. It's probably some power supply for something or other somewhere.

You haven't said how much the bill is, but I guess €4.50 isn't that much of the whole thing. Heating (water and radiators) and cooking are usually the main culprits, along with washing machine/dryers.

blobert

Thanks for the reply.

You are probably right. However with this 48w drain and the fridge freezer seemingly drawing power all the time the minimum constant use of power is about 195w. It's even higher when the fridge freezer is on (ie it seems to be using that power even when not cooling).


The 2 month bill for this place is about €150, the previous apartment was about €60-70. All water heating is done through the gas, in the previous place the shower heated water electrically. The only increase is that this place has a dishwasher, though in theory this is only meant to use about 1Kwh per cycle, even if it's using more than this (and it seems to be according to my meter) it still doesn't explain the big increase. We've brought the majority of appliances with us so the costs should be roughly the same, hence its all a bit confusing. I've also put in nearly all energy saver bulbs in the new place, did not have any in previous place.

Thanks for the help.

HomeBoyDeluxe

Hi Blob(ert)

I'm afraid that the buzzing noise is not that unusual, our electrical supply is at a frequency of 50 hertz this can sometimes resonate/vibrate the device causing it to emit an annoying sound.

Try wrapping a cloth around it or fixing some thing heavy to it, to stop it vibrating, if it is warm it is using power, the alarm will always be trickle charging the back up battery, but that should only be using 5-15 watt depending on the efficiency of the system.

If the battery in the unit is very old it may not be holding a charge as it should therefore requiring more power to charge it.

50 watt usage per hour equals about €1.34 per week,I know we are in a recession but exactly how miserable are you?

Off set the cost by doing something simple like boiling only the amount of water you actually use for a cup of tea e.g say you boil a litre of water for tea twice every day, it takes around 3 min to boil with a 2KW kettle that is around 100 watts used or 1.4KW weekly (22.4 cent). Now if you only boiled 300ml of water you only use 30 watt or around 460 watt weekly (7.6 cent).Wham you have just saved around €7 annually!(that should bring a smile to your face).

Bottom line, i think you will have to except it or get a new pad!

Good luck.

MaxFlower

HomeBoyDeluxe wrote: »

I know we are in a recession but exactly how miserable are you?

Meow!

HomeBoyDeluxe wrote: »

Wham you have just saved around €7 annually!(that should bring a smile to your face).

As above

HomeBoyDeluxe wrote: »

I'm afraid that the buzzing noise is not that unusual, our electrical supply is at a frequency of 50 hertz this can sometimes resonate/vibrate the device causing it to emit an annoying sound.
Try wrapping a cloth around it

Probably the best advice of all. Because wrapping a flammable/insulating object around your electrics should result in a smouldering pile of rubble and hey presto, no more ESB bills, no more problem.

blobert

Thanks for the advice guys, especially from MrDeluxe. After spending €50 on the Owl electricity monitor I need to save €1.34 a week to recoup the costs or else I'll be further down:)

Switched all food to the new(er) chest freezer and switched off the built in one. Power dropped to 48w for the 1st time with both fridge and freezer on, ie neither using power. The only problem is that while the newer freezer only comes on intermitantly the older fridge seems to be on most of the time using about 120w. I have the temperature guage set to only 2/5 so I suspect it's just worn out.

Spoke to the landlord last night (primarily about the €270 gas bill) and also mentioned the electricity. He said he had owned the place since 1995 and never had any problems with the appliances or boiler, which I suspect means they are all at least that old and have not been serviced since 1995.

I think I will be able to pressure him into getting the boiler serviced though, it's probably quite unsafe never to do so.