Lariat Spammers

L31mr0d

God I hate them. I've come across a few of them now, and have a hard time not falling back into flowchart Akuma to defeat them. What has priority over a Lariat?

The only way I've managed to do damage is to demon flip as Akuma, dive kick then go for a LK hurricane XX srk. If I whiff it though, the damage from a lariat is huge on Akuma. I played against an absolute pain of a player last night, who'd hit me once then back into a corner waiting for the timer to count down, using his lariat to avoid all my fireballs. When I'd get close he'd just spam his banishing flat (EX if he had it)

Again, it was so easy for the countdown to go in his favour for each round. I worked out one hit from his lariat did about equal damage as my hurricane into srk.

What's a good tactic against players like this?

TheWitch06

L31mr0d wrote: »

God I hate them. I've come across a few of them now, and have a hard time not falling back into flowchart Akuma to defeat them. What has priority over a Lariat?

The only way I've managed to do damage is to demon flip as Akuma, dive kick then go for a LK hurricane XX srk. If I whiff it though, the damage from a lariat is huge on Akuma. I played against an absolute pain of a player last night, who'd hit me once then back into a corner waiting for the timer to count down, using his lariat to avoid all my fireballs. When I'd get close he'd just spam his banishing flat (EX if he had it)

Again, it was so easy for the countdown to go in his favour for each round. I worked out one hit from his lariat did about equal damage as my hurricane into srk.

What's a good tactic against players like this?

Run away with air fireball. There isn't much else you can do against Gief players except run because his Lariat, 360 and EX Banishing Flat have ridic priority and seeming as though you're using Akuma, you don't want to eat any of that, 30% gone each time.

You can't punish Lariat until the last rotation so throw out a really low attack, cr. mk with Akuma would work. Regular Banishing Flat is punishable on hit, if you get hit by it, you can throw him afterwards. Forward hk is good with Akuma too.

I don't really know the match up but It's always the same with Gief, you just run away and don't let him in.

Sagat06

L31mr0d wrote: »

God I hate them. I've come across a few of them now, and have a hard time not falling back into flowchart Akuma to defeat them. What has priority over a Lariat?

The only way I've managed to do damage is to demon flip as Akuma, dive kick then go for a LK hurricane XX srk. If I whiff it though, the damage from a lariat is huge on Akuma. I played against an absolute pain of a player last night, who'd hit me once then back into a corner waiting for the timer to count down, using his lariat to avoid all my fireballs. When I'd get close he'd just spam his banishing flat (EX if he had it)

Again, it was so easy for the countdown to go in his favour for each round. I worked out one hit from his lariat did about equal damage as my hurricane into srk.

What's a good tactic against players like this?

I'm a Blanka fighter I laugh at his lariat ha ha

L31mr0d

TheWitch06 wrote: »

I don't really know the match up but It's always the same with Gief, you just run away and don't let him in.

thing is the lariat can easily avoid all my air fireballs, and once I'm cornered its pretty easy for him to get me coming out of the teleport (usually he'd go for a banishing flat then when I'd warp through him and he'd get me on the cross up with his extended c.HK)

oh and yeah, blanka is crazy good against Zangief. His beast slide demolishes lariat spammers.

Retr0gamer

I think it's something you'll just have to get used to. With Zangief your only tactic is to get as close as possible and when you do, inflict the pain. To be honest against this type of play a flowchart akuma is probably the best tactic and there's no shame in it, keeping 'Gief out of arms length should be top priority.

L31mr0d

Retr0gamer wrote: »

With Zangief your only tactic is to get as close as possible and when you do, inflict the pain. To be honest against this type of play a flowchart akuma is probably the best tactic and there's no shame in it, keeping 'Gief out of arms length should be top priority.

But like I said it's pretty easy to dodge my fireballs with the lariat, and then get at least some chip damage in when I'm cornered, even if I do teleport gief can get me easily with his extended c.HK

bah, I suppose I just need to practice my demon flips and follow up combos. It's just so depressing seeing how little damage the combo actually does against gief even if I land it.

K.O.Kiki

If you think YOU got a problem vs Zangief, try playing Abel.
Seriously. Just try it.

Cross-up j.MK: pretty much forget it (Lariat)
Roll: forget it (gets thrown)
Sweep vs Lariat: very hard, forget it (****ty range)
EX-Rekka vs Lariat: forget it (mine always seem to get hit by Armor Break)
EX-Terry Kick vs Lariat: forget it (it's SUPPOSED TO BEAT LARIAT, but it never does)
Throw game: forget it ('Gief has longer range, and the only thing that out-prioritises his SPD is Jab-TornadoThrow. All other TTs get beat)

TheWitch06

L31mr0d wrote: »

But like I said it's pretty easy to dodge my fireballs with the lariat, and then get at least some chip damage in when I'm cornered, even if I do teleport gief can get me easily with his extended c.HK

bah, I suppose I just need to practice my demon flips and follow up combos. It's just so depressing seeing how little damage the combo actually does against gief even if I land it.

As I've said, Lariat is punishable during the last rotation. If Gief does a Lariat through your fireball, punish it.

FutureGuy

I play Guile most of the time online and I have little difficulty with Zangief so long as I zone correctly. Once he starts crossing up, it's tough to do much about it.

With Akuma, I would keep well away from Zangief, mixing up air and variable-speed ground gohadoukens. If he comes close, air hurricane or teleport away.

Use c.mk>gohadouken to punish Lariats. I'd try to fire a slow gohadouken and get into c.mp range by dashing. If he lariats, punish with above combo. I'd sometimes follow up with a delayed c.hk as I have noted some will walk right into that. If they dont, jump back with EX-air gohadouken.

I know it all sounds a little spammy, but most of Akumas close range offence goes out the window during this match-up.

L31mr0d

TheWitch06 wrote: »

As I've said, Lariat is punishable during the last rotation. If Gief does a Lariat through your fireball, punish it.

Sorry, yeah seeing that now. I'll head into practice and record gief doing nonstop lariats to get the timing down on moving in for the combo on that. Just so I know, to punish on the last rotation with a c.mk do I need to be next to gief taking chip damage off the lariat?

TheWitch06

L31mr0d wrote: »

Sorry, yeah seeing that now. I'll head into practice and record gief doing nonstop lariats to get the timing down on moving in for the combo on that. Just so I know, to punish on the last rotation with a c.mk do I need to be next to gief taking chip damage off the lariat?

No, you don't need to have blocked it. Stay just outside of the Lariats range.

Azza

Akuma is one of the few matchs that Zangief is at a disadvantage.

Think the advantage steams from the fact that Gief is vunrable in the head during lariat. Normally that isn't an issue for him as most opponents can't punish without trading unfavourably but Akuma does not have this problem. His air fireball beats it clean. Plus Akuma has the best runaway option in the game thanks to airfireball and a teleport that can actually best used to get out of corner traps.

An example video of how Akuma is suppose to win.
http://www.eventhubs.com/videos/2009/mar/29/akuma-vs-zangief-street-fighter-4/

Things to note about Zangief.
He has 1200 health points the best in the game. (Akuma has 750 the second worst). He is the hardest character in the game to dizzy.
Lariat beats nearly all normal and special moves (notably exceptions of Cammy's Spiral Arrow and Blanka's Cannon Ball), even some Ultra's during its first two rotations but its vunrable during the third rotation.

Again lariat will beat all jump in's clean if Gief crouchs and lariat lates (i.e when your at where his head be if he is standing).

For the same reason you can't cross Gief up on knockdown as wakeup lariat beats all cross ups effectively making him immune to this tactic.

Lariat does 120 damage on first hit, if you attempt to focus attack it you can take a further 140 damage on the second hit.

Giefs SPD comes out in an insanely fast 2 frames. This is faster than most regular and specials in the game. It also has really high priority. The EX SPD has even higher priority and comes out in 4 frames doing the same damage as a medium strength SPD. The damage done by an SPD is 200,220,240 depending on weather its light, medium or fierce.

Giefs ultra does the mast damage in a game between 408-600 damage points depending on the size of his revenge meter (not factoring in the damage scaling systm). Super does 500 damage.

Both Ultra and Super come out in a utterly insane 1 frame.

Because of there insanely fast startup times its not hard for Gief to land these.

For this reason never attempt link combos against Gief only combo's where you have a good frame advantage and can pull off comfortably. A good Gief will always buffer an SPD when being comboed or in block stun. The slightest mistake and you will eat SPD or worse Ultra.

Banishing Flat absorbs projectiles, has great priority and Gief normally uses it to close the gap down and get in close. You have a small frame advantage when you block this move and even when you get hit. Except with EX Banishing Flat which knocks down on hit.

Giefs primary gameplan is to knock you down and start z hoping across you with his body splash to screw up any reversal you attempt on wakeup. When you get up your then forced into a 50/50 guessing game of lariat or SPD, guess right and you might escape, guess wrong and you take a truckload of damage and are forced into another round of 50/50.

Unfortantly Gief is a bore to play. Its pure hit and run. Get in and do damage, get out fast. Keep your distance. Unfortantly you must always be on your guard, as one mistake can be massively punished.

Retr0gamer

I found out last night that Gief can use an SPD to get out of a combo. I was playing the cpu last night and comboed into ryu's ultra. the ultra animation started and when it finished I got my face SPD'ed into the ground

L31mr0d

Azza wrote: »

Things to note about Zangief.
He has 1200 health points the best in the game. (Akuma has 750 the second worst). He is the hardest character in the game to dizzy

Can I ask where you got this information about health and damage numbers. Been looking for something that details that myself also.

CodeMonkey

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/05/stamina-stun-dash-and-jump-rankings-street-fighter-4/

D4RK ONION

CodeMonkey wrote: »

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/05/stamina-stun-dash-and-jump-rankings-street-fighter-4/

That's brilliant, thanks CodeMonkey.
...
Jonathan Coultan fan?

Cunny-Funt

pretty much what everyone else has said, flowchat him use different speed fireballs mixed in there with standing HK which can get gief by surprise and low medium kick into fireball.

Teleport the hell out of there when he starts trying that cross over ****.

Watch the lariat closely and you can land a sweep at the end of it but be careful. you can time a raging demon against this sometimes.


Demon flip doesnt beat is lariat either.

L31mr0d

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Demon flip doesnt beat is lariat either.

weird it must of been that I was demon flipping on the last rotation.

what about a demon flip into slide kick? Does this fail against a lariat?

Cunny-Funt

Generally yes, it does, although sometimes you can get him, if you use the light one, where only the very tip of akumas toe gets in range of gief, you might catch him.

Know your spacing and know when his lariat ends.

CodeMonkey

L31mr0d: why don't you make use of training mode? Select Akuma and your opponent as Zangief. Then record Zangief doing some lariats and play it back. You will take control of Akuma again during playback. Now see what works against lariat. It's easy to set up and the record and playback options are in the training options.

Cunny-Funt

yeah thats pretty much the best thing about training mode. Helped me for getting better at focus countering people.