Entry Level

Kidchameleon

Hi Guy's/Gal's,

Just wondering from a software development point of view, what would be the absolute minimum requirements for some kind of entry level software dev job in Ireland. What is the most basic job in a software dev company, testing perhaps? Currently im studying at home for a degree with the Open University, OOP module starting soon. Basically im very keen to get a start in this industry. Ive got a good head for programming, going to be studying Java soon, currently im making some app's in C#, nothing mad complicated ill admit.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks for Reading,

Andy.

Atomic Pineapple

I've just gone through 4 years of a software development course and have one more exam to go!

I've been looking at jobs for graduates and most of them are looking for a honours degree in software development and some require a 2.1 grade as a minimum.

The jobs I've been looking at involve simple testing and simple integration into the project process using mentors.

stephenlane80

Yea, it might be difficult to get hired in the current environment without a computer science degree, but not impossible ! One way that might get you into the industry is to get a non-software job in a company that has a software development department and over time show your interest in the software department and apply for an internal transfer.

Kidchameleon

Hi draffodx and stephenlane80,

I really appreciate those replies. Thanks. Something that occurred to me today is the idea of doing work experience. Would any of you know of any companies that offer unpaid work experience?

Regards,

Andy.

Webmonkey

You would be surprized, but proper testing is an area that you can only get into after many years of development - I'm no expert though - but it makes sense. To be a good tester, you must understand how things work and how to find potential problems that can break it. So with testing, comes years of experience....

Now if it is just script testing, running scripts and doing what you are told - that's something I'd imagine would get you in at entry level.

stephenlane80

I havent really heard of any companies that hire un-paid interns in Ireland, probably because they dont think they would be able to find them ! But if youre willing to work/learn for nothing i can't see you having any trouble finding takers ! Take out the golden pages or google and look for a few companies in your area, can't hurt to make a few calls

Farls

An option is to do a FAS course that will then involve some work experience in a software house. I done this after I done my degree as work wasn't that plentiful at the time for graduates (as usual) It put my foot on the ladder and I haven't looked back since.

JimmyReegs

Hey.

Just wondering if anybody has a bit of advice for me to help me get my foot on the ladder.

I have got a degree in computing and I am quite good at programming, currently Java and C++ and some VB.

Since finished college worked as field service engineer because thats the job I seemed to fall into and the money was ok.

Went traveling for the last 9 months and now I am home I am obviously looking for work. Dont really want to go into field service engineer again, want to do what I enjoyed most and what I was best at which is programming.

Does anybody think there is any courses I should do or could they recomend anything that I should be doing to get the all important first job?

I am going to do the Sun Certified Programmer for Java certification as soon as I can, is that worth doing?

Really, I would appreciate any bit of advice or information anybody has for me.

Thanks for listening!

Farls

JimmyReegs wrote: »

Hey.

Just wondering if anybody has a bit of advice for me to help me get my foot on the ladder.

I have got a degree in computing and I am quite good at programming, currently Java and C++ and some VB.

Since finished college worked as field service engineer because thats the job I seemed to fall into and the money was ok.

Went traveling for the last 9 months and now I am home I am obviously looking for work. Dont really want to go into field service engineer again, want to do what I enjoyed most and what I was best at which is programming.

Does anybody think there is any courses I should do or could they recomend anything that I should be doing to get the all important first job?

I am going to do the Sun Certified Programmer for Java certification as soon as I can, is that worth doing?

Really, I would appreciate any bit of advice or information anybody has for me.

Thanks for listening!

The SCJP is an excellent string to have on your bow, it shows that only have you learned java properly but you are also capable of using it.

Your best shot is probably get a list of companies...now is the time! and ring around them looking for graduate jobs to simple work placement...just get the foot on the ladder as you say.

John_Mc

The best thing you can do is undertake personal projects that you can discuss, and perhaps demonstrate, in an interview.

You could quite easily graduate with a degree from college with terrible programming skills and employers know this. What they really love to see is someone who's very interested in it, so much so that they spend their spare time doing it!

Not only will this greatly enhance your programming skills, it will also give you a portfolio that will definitely assist in acquiring that elusive first job!

Farls

John_Mc wrote: »

The best thing you can do is undertake personal projects that you can discuss, and perhaps demonstrate, in an interview.

You could quite easily graduate with a degree from college with terrible programming skills and employers know this. What they really love to see is someone who's very interested in it, so much so that they spend their spare time doing it!

Not only will this greatly enhance your programming skills, it will also give you a portfolio that will definitely assist in acquiring that elusive first job!

Employers aren't looking for a complete 'geek' though. IMO a person with a 2.1 is lot more equipped for a working environment than a 1.1 student. A lot of working in IT is communication, meetings, portraying your idea's/thought's to an audience. Of course you need the technical side too but it's also no good if you can't get that across in an interview!

John_Mc

Farls wrote: »

Employers aren't looking for a complete 'geek' though. IMO a person with a 2.1 is lot more equipped for a working environment than a 1.1 student. A lot of working in IT is communication, meetings, portraying your idea's/thought's to an audience. Of course you need the technical side too but it's also no good if you can't get that across in an interview!

Totally agree with you there! But if the OP wants to get a job he'll need to demonstrate technical ability as well as personable qualities in the interview.

JimmyReegs

Some good sounding advice in here, I think I should try a few personal projects, especialy as the will help wipe away the ole cobwebs on the programming skills. I have my 2 college projects but they were group projects and to be honest I wasnt very happy with them.

Anybody have any ideas for any small projects to get me started with?

Spud83

Farls wrote: »

Employers aren't looking for a complete 'geek' though. IMO a person with a 2.1 is lot more equipped for a working environment than a 1.1 student. A lot of working in IT is communication, meetings, portraying your idea's/thought's to an audience. Of course you need the technical side too but it's also no good if you can't get that across in an interview!

So because someone has a 1.1 they don't have these skills? Bit of a generalisation there no?

communication, meetings, portraying your idea's/thought's to an audience all these things can be measured in an interview. If you walk out of college with a 1.1 you have more chance of getting an interview than if you have 2.1 or whatever.

Spud83

JimmyReegs wrote: »

Some good sounding advice in here, I think I should try a few personal projects, especialy as the will help wipe away the ole cobwebs on the programming skills. I have my 2 college projects but they were group projects and to be honest I wasnt very happy with them.

Anybody have any ideas for any small projects to get me started with?

Really anything at all that you can think of, and try incorporate as many things as possible i.e a database, front end GUI, maybe some web stuff connected to it, some mobile stuff if possible. Basically just keep working on the idea.

What were your college projects? Maybe you could expand on them?

Remember though that they may ask can the look at your code and that rather than just the finished app.

So make sure your code is neat, and follows some kind of standard, decently commented etc. Don't leave any dead code hanging around it.

JimmyReegs

College final project was a management system for a estate agent office.

Kept all property details, custome details, agent details, calender management for the agent, and functions for managers, etc.
As I said, I wasnt really happy with the code, we agreed a system for naming and nobody except myself seemed to keep to it, also people were leaving dead code and repeteated code everywhere.
I ruptured my tendon in february so couldnt really make it into college a lot, but we were finished with the coding so while I was at home bored, I went through every bit of code, tidied it up, completely redid the GUI, added a fair few new functions, tidied up the database and made a lot of the SQL Queries for the database simpler.
Unfortunately by the time I got back to college fully and had this finished we didn't have time to create a full new test plan and do the full testing on it, so I think we just handed it up with the project as a beta.

Dont know if I still have it on my computer but I may be able to get it off the college and maybe do some more work to that adding some web functions and maybe a mobile function so the agent can change stuff on the go?

But honestly at the moment I think the biggest problem is getting interviews!

Nolanger

Also remember that not every IT programming job uses the latest Java/C# technologies. There's a lot of legacy stuff out there that's not going away anytime soon.

Farls

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

So because someone has a 1.1 they don't have these skills? Bit of a generalisation there no?

communication, meetings, portraying your idea's/thought's to an audience all these things can be measured in an interview. If you walk out of college with a 1.1 you have more chance of getting an interview than if you have 2.1 or whatever.

You'll get an interview alright but speaking from experience the people I know with 1.1's are for the most part are either socially challenged or out for no.1 for want of a better way of putting it. A person with a 2.1 will be more approachable and down to earth thus maybe finding it slightly harder to get an interview but easier to get a job.

hobochris

Nolanger wrote: »

Also remember that not every IT programming job uses the latest Java/C# technologies. There's a lot of legacy stuff out there that's not going away anytime soon.

+1

I graduated last year and went into my first Job: .net Software developer, Half the app's here are in vb6.. I'd give my right arm for them to be c# but at the moment they work, so the company isn't in a hurry to convert them.

um7y1h83ge06nx

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

So because someone has a 1.1 they don't have these skills? Bit of a generalisation there no?

communication, meetings, portraying your idea's/thought's to an audience all these things can be measured in an interview. If you walk out of college with a 1.1 you have more chance of getting an interview than if you have 2.1 or whatever.

I agree with this.

The better results you have will making it easier to get an interview, after that your personality needs to shine through.

I don't think anyone wouldn't give some-one an interview because they have a 1.1. They may be more concerned in the interview to focus on the person's personality so they're not potentially hiring a right spanner.

Best one I heard was by a guy in my course doing a co-op placement interview. He got asked the stereotypical, easy question that most people love to get "Do you like working in teams".

He ended up saying that he preferred working on his own as he reckoned he could work faster, and would like to figure things out for himself rather than asking around for an answer! :eek:

Needless to say he didn't get the job.

dazberry

Nolanger wrote: »

Also remember that not every IT programming job uses the latest Java/C# technologies. There's a lot of legacy stuff out there that's not going away anytime soon.

Its very dangerous getting involved with legacy stuff - because essentually your career stagnates. Companies don't see past the toolset.

Farls wrote: »

You'll get an interview alright but speaking from experience the people I know with 1.1's are for the most part are either socially challenged or out for no.1 for want of a better way of putting it. A person with a 2.1 will be more approachable and down to earth thus maybe finding it slightly harder to get an interview but easier to get a job.

Back in my day the 1.1s were (for the most part) the best students. I've really only met one socially challenged 1.1 graduate in my time, but then again its been a long time since I've worked with I.T. graduates.

Alma Tiny Reaper wrote: »

Best one I heard was by a guy in my course doing a co-op placement interview. He got asked the stereotypical, easy question that most people love to get "Do you like working in teams".

He ended up saying that he preferred working on his own as he reckoned he could work faster, and would like to figure things out for himself rather than asking around for an answer! :eek:

I interviewed a guy that I had happened to work with before. I knew he was reasonably good, but he didn't do a great interview (or test). That left me in the position of having to try and make a case for him. Only thing was that during the interview he'd made it clear that he needs to work somewhere quiet and without interruptions - and we work in a fcuking madhouse :mad: - so in the end I just couldn't make the case.

D.

legend365

Yea im having a problem picturing what type of work i'd be doing after college.

Just finished a 3 year degree in software development and might possibly do a 4th.

Problem is that there is absolutley no work experiance of any kind

pdebarra

Nolanger wrote: »

Also remember that not every IT programming job uses the latest Java/C# technologies. There's a lot of legacy stuff out there that's not going away anytime soon.

That's absolutely true: a large portion of my company's work is in "legacy" systems - I work solely with COBOL/JCL, for example.