Vincent Browne 11/05/09

Aidric

Anyone watching this at the moment? Declan Ganley squirming around his party funding questions.

Red Sleeping Beauty

I fucking fed up of this "People vs. Declan Ganley" shite.

{Sorry for the AH style post.}

nuttz

I just hope the people of the North West see through him and make sure he does not get elected.

Red Sleeping Beauty

It's utterly absurd that everyone quizzes this fella so aggressively about his USA military contracts yet we pretend that there isn't an American military presence with arms passing through Irish soil via Shannon.

Marshy

One of the other speakers, think it was Paschal Mooney, kept on shouting at Ganley and interrupting him which wasn't on imo.

He was also going on about protecting people's rights wrt abortion and euthanasia and seemed to be making out everyone was against these issues.

ateam

Ganley's not perfect, but sure FF have been engaged in dodgy practices for the past 30 years.

Fitzo

TBH I thought Ganley came across as the only one with a bit of class.

The rest are all idiots as far as I'm concerned although Higgins wasn't too bad.

Harkin shouting " You started it, you started it!", and Mooney falling over himself without having a clue what to say. Fools.

I don't like Libertas or Ganley but if I was voting, after seeing the other candidates it would be between him and Higgins for my vote.

Harkin is an awful eejit who'll go missing on a junket for another 4 years if she's elected. Mooney doesn't have a breeze.

Euro_Kraut

ateam wrote: »

Ganley's not perfect, but sure FF have been engaged in dodgy practices for the past 30 years.

Yeah that makes him a lot better alright. Screw it if he a millionaire trying to bankroll he version of neo-conservative christian euro sceptically and acussing his oppontents of eltitism. Screw it that he has made his fortune out of shady deals with the American military. Screw it that his party lake any clear policy framework what so ever.

That doesn't matter because Bertie took money off a plaster.

You know two wrongs do not make a right. It just makes our system more corrupt. If we want a fresh start in Irish politics the shady Libertas party with its links to big money is not the place to find it.

Euro_Kraut

nuttz wrote: »

I just hope the people of the North West see through him and make sure he does not get elected.

He has promised to resign as leader if he does not win a seat. That would be delicious.

dodgyme

Ganly was the only guest that looked like he had a brain on that programme. I hope he wins a seat.

Basically it was everyone versus ganly, which I hope is good for ganly.

It shows you how the traditional politicians group together when threatened by someone unknown to them. Not once did they argue against each other (in the old traditional style back biting style) which shows me its time for a shake up of ganly proportions.

Wheely

Ganley showed the rest of them up for fools. Why is it that when some talent does come on to the Irish political scene its in the form of this shady, imo kind of scary guy.

He wiped the floor with the hacks that were on there last night but THAT is not a reason to vote for him. Libertas have the potential to be dangerous, they're untrustworthy and its completely unclear what motivates them.

I'd urge people in that that constituency not to vote for them. Hitler was a great orator too............

gizmo555

I didn't think Ganley squirmed - I did think Vincent was practically foaming at the mouth in his pursuit of the point and refused to acknowledge that Ganley has complied with all SIPO's requests for information, albeit not as quickly as Vincent thinks he ought to have.

Mind you, he did make a fool of Jim Higgins and put him squarely on the spot after Higgins claimed to have put full details of all his expense claims on his website only for Vincent to come back to him a few minutes later, saying TV3's staff had checked the website and the details were nowhere to be found. Higgins waffling and expostulation in repsonse was comical.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Aul Vinny boy is always foaming at the mouth in his pursuit of answers!!

He gave that FF person a good seeing to when it emerged his expenses weren't on his website and he said they were!!!

anonymous_joe

ateam wrote: »

Ganley's not perfect, but sure FF have been engaged in dodgy practices for the past 30 years.

And...?

Because FF are dodgy it doesn't matter that Ganley's dodgy too? Not to mention sinister in his motives.

I trust low key corruption, the kind that's about feathering your nest, it's loathesome, but you can understand it. Ganley's neo-con movement stinks of being influenced heavily by secret money.

And that's ok because Bertie's house was paid for by a builder?

Come on. Two wrongs don't make a right, if you've a problem with FF then I don't see how you can even begin to dismiss Libertas' dodginess.

molloyjh

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

He has promised to resign as leader if he does not win a seat. That would be delicious.

He also promised that Libertas would disband after the referendum last year. He also promised that neither he nor the Libertas group had any political ambitions.

To those here who seem to think that Libertas are anything but the dodgiest (sp?) party out there have a read of the threads ongoing in the Euopean politics section. They have slogan policies with no plans or substance, they are hypocritical and they misrepresent almost everything they talk about in the extreme, let alone the funding issues and this "I don't remember if I paid €80k to a Dutch MEP to join Libertas" carry on. In short, while I hate FF (and boy do I), I'd sooner vote FF than Libertas.

Didn't see the show. Does anyone know if it's online. Never been a huge fan of VB, but would be interested in seeing it none-the-less.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Another attack on Ganley was that he claimed to be Irish when in fact he wasn't.

Mind you no one complains when 10,000 Americans come here to talk about being Oirish. Or when Martin Mansergh opens his mouth with that Oxford drawl.

I can't really see Libertas getting anywhere though all the same. They've the same kinda absurdity factor that Sinn Fein have, albeit for different reasons.

Red Sleeping Beauty

anonymous_joe wrote: »

And...?

Because FF are dodgy it doesn't matter that Ganley's dodgy too? Not to mention sinister in his motives.

I trust low key corruption, the kind that's about feathering your nest, it's loathesome, but you can understand it. Ganley's neo-con movement stinks of being influenced heavily by secret money.

And that's ok because Bertie's house was paid for by a builder?

Come on. Two wrongs don't make a right, if you've a problem with FF then I don't see how you can even begin to dismiss Libertas' dodginess.

Obama was backed by secret Wall St. money too. Ganley doesn't have the same charm though

molloyjh

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Obama was backed by secret Wall St. money too. Ganley doesn't have the same charm though

I love all this talk of secret money. Some secret!

gizmo555

Alan Rouge wrote: »

He gave that FF person a good seeing to when it emerged his expenses weren't on his website and he said they were!!!

For the record, Jim Higgins is actually Fine Gael . . .

Red Sleeping Beauty

Oh yeah, sorry. Oops :pac:
I'm always mixing them up.

Scofflaw

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Another attack on Ganley was that he claimed to be Irish when in fact he wasn't.

Mind you no one complains when 10,000 Americans come here to talk about being Oirish. Or when Martin Mansergh opens his mouth with that Oxford drawl.

I can't really see Libertas getting anywhere though all the same. They've the same kinda absurdity factor that Sinn Fein have, albeit for different reasons.

It's the lack of irony, I think. They go great guns on accountability and transparency, yet believe that saying "we've complied with SIPO, admittedly under pressure" is sufficient for themselves. They're great "champions" of democracy, but nobody from Libertas ever contradicts Ganley. They claim to have a plan, but it's just a set of slogans. They're "not eurosceptical", but most of the people standing under their banner are rabid nationalist eurosceptics.

In short, they're a one-millionaire anti-elite, a federalist project of eurosceptics, a pan-European party of local interests, a transparency movement funded by internal accounting tricks out of one man's pocket. Two things unite them - Declan Ganley, and Declan Ganley's money. They're like some kind of surrealist theatre.

cordially,
Scofflaw

JonathanAnon

molloyjh wrote: »

"I don't remember if I paid €80k to a Dutch MEP to join Libertas" carry on. In short, while I hate FF (and boy do I), I'd sooner vote FF than Libertas.

He was on with Pat Kenny today in a similar debate,should be available on podcast soon - isnt great, lot of lads just shouting at each other. The analysis of Libertas and interview with Ganley by PBH on Pat Kenny's show (from which the above quote is taken) from a few weeks ago is also interesting.

It is not good enough to vote Ganley in because a) he gets a hard time from all of the other candidates or b) to give FF a kicking. He is NOT Irish, and has no interest in helping the people of Ireland North West. He is simply trying to buy a foothold for his party in Europe. This is proven by PBH's report, and from the numerous interviews with politicians across Europe who he tried to buy off. There is still apparently an analysis being carried out on where exactly his money is coming from, yet still he is allowed to run (i.e. without approval of his fundraising methods)

The Prime Time special on him a while back was very revealing. They interviewed a former Minister in the Lithuanian government, who Ganley had claimed he was "special advisor" to. They former Minister in question said that Ganley was one of a number of business people who was tendering for business. All lies.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Martin Mansergh isn't Irish either then.

and the Primetime thing was a smear job complete with haunting music and unsettling lighting

Daragh101

declan ganley wants to be under the radar, with how he earned his money in his past etc, which is fair enough, but you would think when he is been quized on it every time he is being telifised that he would reveal, unless of course he had somthing to hide?? also i wonder why he is going into politics if he wont share his past.He was defo lying about a lot of what he said last night, he is a dodgy guy to say the least!!

molloyjh

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Martin Mansergh isn't Irish either then.

and the Primetime thing was a smear job complete with haunting music and unsettling lighting

That may be so, I didn't see it myself, but the fact remains that Ganley has as shady a history and has lied as often as any FF'er and he hasn't even been elected yet. Add that to the fact that Libertas don't have any real policies (1 A4 size page on their website and nothing more), are nothing but slogans (which happen to misrepresent the topics they are aimed at) and claim to be able to do things in Europe that they simply cannot do (domestic changes to the Health Service etc) and you have a party that is simply nothing more than a joke of a party. If they get even one seat in this country it would nearly be time to pack up and leave, I'd be that disappointed in the Irish electorate. Anyway this is turning into another Libertas debate. I suggest those of you interested in this check out the 2 threads already on the topic in the European Politics section. There's plnty to discuss there!!!!

Red Sleeping Beauty

Anyone know who's on Vincent tonight ?

Euro_Kraut

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Another attack on Ganley was that he claimed to be Irish when in fact he wasn't.

The issue was that he had his nationality marked as British on the accounts for a board he was sitting on. A few months later he come over here telling us how Irish. It hypocritical, imo. I have no issue with anybody claiming to be Irish so long as they are consistent about it. It appear to me the Ganley will change his nationality to suit the situation he finds himself in. He is untrustworthy. We have had too much of that in Irish politics over the past 20 years. He is not change - he is more of the same (but with loads of money and rosary beads)

Red Sleeping Beauty

Vincent's got a good point there about the futility of the Dail.

Scofflaw

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Vincent's got a good point there about the futility of the Dail.

It's a rubber stamp body (and the Seanad is a rubber stamp for the rubber stamp), by virtue of the whip system and the utter lack of political courage of its members. The EP is a lot more democratic both in theory and practice.

not on a hobbyhorse at all,
Scofflaw

anonymous_joe

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Obama was backed by secret Wall St. money too. Ganley doesn't have the same charm though

Obama's not trying to trick morons into getting us to leave the EU. :pac:

Scofflaw

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Obama's not trying to trick morons into getting us to leave the EU. :pac:

Or turn the EU into a federal state - I'm still not sure which.

cordially,
Scofflaw