Vincent Browne 11/05/09

becks4bucks

i work nights so i only got to see the vincent browne show tonight on the web with the north west candidates. if the show tells us anything about politics , it tells us that it is time for a shift away from mainstream parties - what has happened in the uk re expenses in my opinion is criminal and rest assured , the situation here is just as bad. Im a father of two , married with amortgage etc etc so this is not a student passing the time cause I cant sleep. Give mr gantley a chance - an alternative to the crap put before us - for crying outloud this is a wealthy , intelligent businessman and how he must wish to walk the other way when abuse is being hurled at him by inferior people.

994

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Yeah that makes him a lot better alright. Screw it if he a millionaire trying to bankroll he version of neo-conservative christian euro sceptically and acussing his oppontents of eltitism. Screw it that he has made his fortune out of shady deals with the American military. Screw it that his party lake any clear policy framework what so ever.

That doesn't matter because Bertie took money off a plaster.

You know two wrongs do not make a right. It just makes our system more corrupt. If we want a fresh start in Irish politics the shady Libertas party with its links to big money is not the place to find it.

So Libertas is directly ruled by the rich, while FF is only indirectly ruled by the rich. Ganley conducts shady deals with the US Army; FF conduct open deals with the US army by letting them refuel in Shannon. It is utterly laughable to say that Libertas "lake" any proper policies when FF's has been "make it up as we go along" ever since they realised that they wouldn't get the North back.

And Ahern didn't just "take money off a plasterer". He accepted substantial bribes from businessmen while serving as Finance Minister. That is basically treason.

BlitzKrieg

Declan Ganley did indeed come off better then his fellow party member Caroline Simmons who got absolutley murdered when she was on.

But he didnt inspire confidence, mainly because he never talked about anything, the whole finance issue with libertas is the only saving grace for Ganley as it keeps him from hanging himself when it comes to actual libertas policy (see again Caroline Simmons laughable attempt to explain libertas policy) and his reputation (as seen from this thread) goes up because people see it as some conspiracy or smear campaign against him and that naturally he is the underdog.

I say let Siptu deal with his funding issue and people should focus on libertas policy, which will cut them down to size fairly quickly (if you feel otherwise, I invite any of you to defend any statement made by Libertas about the EU since the beginning of this campaign, they have all been shown as either complete lies or halftruths twisted in their favour.)

Also notice that the brief times he went off the funding issue he threw the debate into disarray by bringing up irrelevent and manipulative topics such as euthenasia.

Money issues just dont work as a debating point with libertas because they can just point to the handling of the banks and walk away without issue.


So far the most impressive candidate on vincent browne has been De Rossa followed by Patricia McKenna (though they both had two very different stances) they were informed, practical and they took libertas to town on actual issues rather then bother with financial gossip.

Also Higgens was f*cking moron to say he had his funding up on his website and to then be shown not to, he walked into that and then to start describing the European common salary terms as his payment was an even dumber move.

Serenity Now!

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Declan Ganley did indeed come off better then his fellow party member Caroline Simmons who got absolutley murdered when she was on

People here should read more Private Eye. At a European conference late April, Libertas 'stats' and claims about their website in comparison with other party/group websites were proven to be false. Too much of Ganley's claims even about his own nationality and financial sitting have been rubbished and disproven.

Scofflaw

becks4bucks wrote: »

i work nights so i only got to see the vincent browne show tonight on the web with the north west candidates. if the show tells us anything about politics , it tells us that it is time for a shift away from mainstream parties - what has happened in the uk re expenses in my opinion is criminal and rest assured , the situation here is just as bad. Im a father of two , married with amortgage etc etc so this is not a student passing the time cause I cant sleep. Give mr gantley a chance - an alternative to the crap put before us - for crying outloud this is a wealthy , intelligent businessman and how he must wish to walk the other way when abuse is being hurled at him by inferior people.

"By inferior people"? What? Also, this mantra of "we're up the creek through politicians idolising business, so let's idolise a businessman" isn't even slightly sensible. Ganley, in so far as he's calling for anything other than apple pie and puppies, is calling for less regulation - let the businessmen go ahead and do their stuff without intereference from Brussels. That's how we got into this mess - you can't sort it out by applying yet more of the same, ffs!

amazed,
Scofflaw

Aidric

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Declan Ganley did indeed come off better then his fellow party member Caroline Simmons who got absolutley murdered when she was on.

Ya I saw that episode with Simmons as well. She came across as wholly incompetent and much like Ganley reverted to waffling off topic in a bid to deflect Brown. You could just sense Brown's feeling of hoplessness in trying to get answers on policy from her.
btw anyone who has missed any of these debates can view them on the TV3 website: http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=nightlynewswithvincentbrowne

Ronan|Raven

I rellay hope Libertas come campaigning to my door. It is a sad state of affairs and shows how badly Irish politics has fallen among the views of many that these shower are being considered.

stevedublin

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Obama was backed by secret Wall St. money too. Ganley doesn't have the same charm though

link?

fatboypee

setting aside Libertas and Ganley's covertness / perceived dodginess I would make the point, having watched the show (If you can call it such a thing), that Ganley came off rather well as, in my opinion he is far better equipped as an orator than his competitors on the show. He spoke clearly (when not heckled or being dragged into a petty squabbles) and concisely and attempted to put his points across in a calm and professional manner.

At times this made the others (including the host) look like children.
I have seen and heard this childish, inarticulate, inane BS ad-nausem from both Mister Cowen and Lenihan and it depresses me immensely that there is no clarity of either thought or deed in any of the major parties seriously contending the elections.

One further point, on viewing the show, is how threatened by Ganley the others appeared to be. Very often, not even giving him the opportunity to put his case. Speaks volumes in my opinion...

I'm not saying I want Ganley, or Libertas, or that they are not dodgy, I do not know. But I simply wish that someone who can raise politics out of this infantile squabbling state its in, to new heights of articulation and clarity and give it some long overdue professionalism would come on the scene.

That kind of person I would listen to and potentially vote for, and if I'm correct, that is what will gain Libertas and Ganley a fair share of the public ear, irrspective of his past, or his particular politics.

FBP.

molloyjh

becks4bucks wrote: »

Give mr gantley a chance - an alternative to the crap put before us - for crying outloud this is a wealthy , intelligent businessman and how he must wish to walk the other way when abuse is being hurled at him by inferior people.

"Inferior people"? What makes them so inferior, or him so superior? The guy told us last year that he would disband Libertas after the Lisbon referendum. Lie. He told us neither himself nor the organisation had political ambitions. Lie. There's questions over their finances. They have nothing beyond single line slogans for policies. Even FF's site has more detail re their policies than Libertas. I don't know of anything they stated as objectionable about the Lisbon Treaty that actually turned out to be true or accurate. All the things they say about the EU on their site is at best massively misrepresentative (and easily proven so). Caroline Simmons' literature states that they are going to change how things like the Health Service are run, I'd love to know how she's going to do that as an MEP! They said last year that we should be able to hold onto "our" Commissioner in Europe (and by default then that all member states should) and now they are giving out that the Commission is too big. They have been shouting that the EU should respect our right to decide our future, yet they say they will get the EU to force referenda in all member states therefore disrespecting those states right to define their own domestic policy on the issue. I could easily go on and on but I think Ive gotten the jist of the point across!

Libertas are a step back, not a step forward. Yes, they are different to the shower of pr!cks we have at the moment, but different does not equal better. And just because Ganley may present himself well in certain scenarios does not make him a political messiah by any stretch of the imagination.

994 wrote: »

So Libertas is directly ruled by the rich, while FF is only indirectly ruled by the rich. Ganley conducts shady deals with the US Army; FF conduct open deals with the US army by letting them refuel in Shannon. It is utterly laughable to say that Libertas "lake" any proper policies when FF's has been "make it up as we go along" ever since they realised that they wouldn't get the North back.

Not sure what your point is really. FF do have more defined policies than Libertas (not by much, but just look at their websites) and at least their dealings with the US are open and visible, and the reasons for them are understandable, if not agreeable. Even if there was no difference between the two surely that's more of a reason to shun Libertas entirely, given that they are proclaiming themselves to be the answer to all our political ills and at best they are just as bad as the current lot!

molloyjh

fatboypee wrote: »

I'm not saying I want Ganley, or Libertas, or that they are not dodgy, I do not know. But I simply wish that someone who can raise politics out of this infantile squabbling state its in, to new heights of articulation and clarity and give it some long overdue professionalism would come on the scene.

That kind of person I would listen to and potentially vote for, and if I'm correct, that is what will gain Libertas and Ganley a fair share of the public ear, irrspective of his past, or his particular politics.

FBP.

I hear what your saying, but trust me Ganley is not that guy and Libertas are not that party. Being able to sound the part and being the part are two totally different things. Just look at their posters that talk about the current Government as "that shower" and you'll see they are as infantile as the rest of them.

fatboypee

molloyjh wrote: »

I hear what your saying, but trust me Ganley is not that guy and Libertas are not that party. Being able to sound the part and being the part are two totally different things. Just look at their posters that talk about the current Government as "that shower" and you'll see they are as infantile as the rest of them.

Perhaps. I simply do not know enough of Libertas,or Mister Ganley to make a decision. My abiding point remains though, in that if anything can be gleaned from the 'debate' on that show, it is, how far Irish politics, (and for that matter Irish politicians) need to raise their game, inasmuch as we see how they heckled, ridiculed and debased any comment from Ganley in order to make a political snipe that was so inane as to not really be worth the breath?

Take Libertas entirely out of the equation, and imagine for a moment these nobnecks alongside other European politicians..... We have neither the ability, nor the capacity for clear, sentient debate with our neighbours, that much is clear. Mister Ganley, Libertas, whomever, from what I saw on that show, anyone with half a brain and the ability to use it scares the living bejaysus out of our current encumbents!.....

I've no answers here I accept that, merely observations....

FBP.

gizmo555

molloyjh wrote: »

FF do have more defined policies than Libertas (not by much, but just look at their websites)

I have just looked at their websites and you are mistaken. On European affairs specifically, policy details on Fianna Fáil's website are even scantier than Libertas's - 180 words versus Libertas's 380 - (although there is a press release from Brian Crowley about the standardisation of European mobile phone chargers - hooray!)

Both of them actually contain scandalously little concrete information on their European policies considering that polling day is just over three weeks away.

dodgyme

I think Ganly is a breath of fresh air. Its a very interesting development in politics (and god knows we need one) and I for one hope he gets elected. He is up against clowns who come across as merely clowns. Higgins was lying about what was on his site. Harkin came across as someone who was being interviewed for a job as an extra on the wizard of Oz . and all FF candidates are ......well need I say more. Go ganly go

molloyjh

gizmo555 wrote: »

I have just looked at their websites and you are mistaken. On European affairs specifically, policy details on Fianna Fáil's website are even scantier than Libertas's - 180 words versus Libertas's 380 - (although there is a press release from Brian Crowley about the standardisation of European mobile phone chargers - hooray!)

Both of them actually contain scandalously little concrete information on their European policies considering that polling day is just over three weeks away.

To be fair to FF (oh I feel so dirty when I say that!) their policies have to encompass more than just the EU. They are a local, national and European party. And the policies must be relatively brief to ensure they are accessible. Libertas are just a European party so don't need to have the same brevity on each issue as they have less issues to worry about.

I will agree that FF's policy page could do with a radical overhaul though. A brief synopsis by topic with links to more detailed info would be sensible. But then I don't rate FF all that much higher than Libertas...

dodgyme wrote: »

I think Ganly is a breath of fresh air. Its a very interesting development in politics (and god knows we need one) and I for one hope he gets elected. He is up against clowns who come across as merely clowns. Higgins was lying about what was on his site. Harkin came across as someone who was being interviewed for a job as an extra on the wizard of Oz . and all FF candidates are ......well need I say more. Go ganly go

Is there are reason you like Ganley other than the fact that you dislike the others? He's every bit as bad, if not worse, than they are. We need change, but not his type of change.

Mr.Micro

If nothing else Ganly will maybe galvanize the main political parties. They appear to be wary of Libertas, as perhaps they saw what happened with the No vote on the Lisbon Treaty.

dodgyme

molloyjh wrote: »

Is there are reason you like Ganley other than the fact that you dislike the others? He's every bit as bad, if not worse, than they are. We need change, but not his type of change.

I think he is very articulate, is cool under pressure and has very serious business acumen. I voted 'no' to lisbon but not because of libertas. However I have watched ganly in interview after interview and am impressed by him.

John_C

Ganley has done this state the service of putting into contrast just how cac our current politicians are. His Lisbon refferendun campaign was nothing more than some buzz phrases and snappy marketing but that was enough to beat the bulk of the political establishment.

molloyjh

dodgyme wrote: »

I think he is very articulate, is cool under pressure and has very serious business acumen. I voted 'no' to lisbon but not because of libertas. However I have watched ganly in interview after interview and am impressed by him.

Well rather than listen to how he sounds I suggest you listen to what he says, and read what Libertas print. Don't compare him to other politicians, compare him to what the other politicians should be. I have no time for the rest of them, but I'd gladly vote for them sooner than anyone in Libertas.

ednwireland

the fianna fail candidate was driving round the diamond last week or the week before ? saying i'm so and so (cant even remember his name) and playing ole,ole,ole complete muppet. wont vote for ganley or harkin, which leaves us with not too maney choices. pat the cope, god he really needs to retire.

Red Sleeping Beauty

George Lee is'nt the most affable man. He just told Alex White he's a waffler and then chipped in "well, you interupted me".

edit: Alec white ?

super_furry

Yeah, have to say I'm disappointed in what I've seen from him here. He's coming accross as petulent and arrogant.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Vincent's questions are very good though.
He also had a sly chuckle there at the young lad from SF saying they were in favour of the guarantee. Some of this crosses over from politics and current affairs/news into entertainment sometimes.

molloyjh

I don't know. I think Lee and Brennan are the only 2 of the four with the first clue about what they are talking about, for as much as it frustrates me to say. White has no grasp on the banking issue at all and the SF fella is just a kid!

I like that Lee is trying to get White to say what he would do, not what he wouldn't. I'm sick of the partisan party bashing, it's not constructive and needs to stop. Lee also seems to be more than able to discuss each point raised, far more so than the others. I get the impression though he's not completely taken with FG, but has to back them so he can get the platform he needs.

I'm glad I'm not in the Dublin South constituency though. Won't like to have to choose between those 4!!!!

BlitzKrieg

who is it tonight? (I have no tv and watch everything 1 day late,)

Red Sleeping Beauty

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't know. I think Lee and Brennan are the only 2 of the four with the first clue about what they are talking about, for as much as it frustrates me to say. White has no grasp on the banking issue at all and the SF fella is just a kid!

I like that Lee is trying to get White to say what he would do, not what he wouldn't. I'm sick of the partisan party bashing, it's not constructive and needs to stop. Lee also seems to be more than able to discuss each point raised, far more so than the others. I get the impression though he's not completely taken with FG, but has to back them so he can get the platform he needs.

I'm glad I'm not in the Dublin South constituency though. Won't like to have to choose between those 4!!!!

There's more to choose from than just these 4 for Dublin South.

molloyjh

It's the Dublin South by-election night. George Lee for FG, Alex White for Labour, Shay (?) Brennan for FF and some child for SF.

To be honest VB aimed almost the whole thing at George Lee. None of the others got much of a look in. White popped in a couple of times to show that he really isn't up to much (at one stage he said the Government arethere to make decisions and that back in September he would have made the decision to either nationalise Anglo or let it go to the wall, not guarantee it. Given that they are 2 extreme's in the given situation and he didn't select one over the other he obviously isn't suited to decision making, and therefore Government, by his own definition).

Brennan got a couple of lines in and proved he has an idea of the banking situation (more so than White) but seeing as he is in banking himself that's no great surprise. And the SF fella just couldn't articulate himself and came out with some of the usual SF clangers.

Lee seemed to be well able to talk about everything and was never given much of a chance to finish any of his answers. He didn't come across as a particularly likeable bloke, but at least he had a bit of substance.

Alan Rouge wrote: »

There's more to choose from than just these 4 for Dublin South.

Who else is running in the by-election there? Haven't been paying that much attention to it.

allthedoyles

Lee does'nt seem to be cut out to be a politician , but he will probably still top the poll................He needs to learn more about Fine Gael's policies .

He would'nt survive in an all-out discussion on Prime Time in a debate between the top three political parties .

Marshy

It was interesting seeing Vincent and George face to face after the former's article on his decision to run for FG last week.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0506/1224245988740.html

molloyjh wrote: »

I think Lee and Brennan are the only 2 of the four with the first clue about what they are talking about, for as much as it frustrates me to say.

I didn't think Brennan put any credible reason forward why he should get the vote. George was ok although did get a bit over-excited at times.

molloyjh wrote: »

And the SF fella just couldn't articulate himself and came out with some of the usual SF clangers.

I thought he was right about one thing though; who really cares about the backround as to how George ended up as the FG candidate.

allthedoyles wrote: »

Lee does'nt seem to be cut out to be a politician , but he will probably still top the poll................He needs to learn more about Fine Gael's policies .

I should hope he'll be looking to formulate some new policies for them, they need help for sure on that front.

Marshy

molloyjh wrote: »

Who else is running in the by-election there? Haven't been paying that much attention to it.

Oh forgot to add this on, seems to be 6 candidates. Looking good for Georgie...

http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&category=SPECIALS&disp_cat_id=56&ev_class_id=33&ev_type_id=11462&ev_oc_grp_ids=108916&bir_index=