Why don't men approach women?

ntlbell

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

. They acted like out and out nobs only out for one thing (which is fine) but making it very, very obvious and being very rude about it. Feck 'em....I'm emigrating!! Yay!

There's always a big call for openness and honesty

when women get it they get annoyed and abusive.

It's why the answer to "how do i look in this" will always be "fantastic!!"

Eve_Dublin

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

I'm an Irish guy, and I'm 21.

Yeah, Irish women are bitchy when you chat 'em up, sometimes. But that's only when they're being chatted up- Lots of my female friends, who are real angels, some of them- use pretty cold put-downs. But this is only when they're sleazed on by a drunken Irishman.

What does that tell you?

Nice guys and sober guys get caught in the crossfire. Oh well.:o

Personally, I just persevere on chatting up women that I see and like. I won't quit and bitch about it in the hopes of reversing the problem.

If I get shot down, I laugh or make a funny comment and walk away with my head held high, and sleaze up the next one.:)

Sorry, I just don't see the point in quitting approaching pretty girls cause sometimes they're bitchy sometimes. Life's too short, ya know?

Awwww...fair play Sowhatchawant!! Seriously man! That's the feckin' attitude! Just don't turn into a Bitter Irish Male in his 30s (BIMIT..just coined this acronym a few seconds ago...think I'll use it from now on) like some of the other guys on this forum. Good luck and keep being the nice guy and you'll find a nice lady, I promise.

A vast majority of Irish women are lovely but have probably become a bit hardened to the ridiculous, drunken, childish and rude come-ons they have to put up with from a proportion of Irish men week after week. I had my own personal experience(s) (plural and all in one night) this weekend so I can speak from experience and not just what my friends have told me...and believe me, they've told me plenty.

Eve_Dublin

ntlbell wrote: »

There's always a big call for openness and honesty

when women get it they get annoyed and abusive.

It's why the answer to "how do i look in this" will always be "fantastic!!"

You need to read my main post for the full story. I'll say it again, there was no defence for their behaviour. End of.

Eve_Dublin

T real deal J wrote: »

Firstly i'd like to take back the above, after reading the below rubbish.



I think perhaps you just don't "get it". To have such a negative view of Irish women...you musn't really have dated/chatted to many Irish girls outside your social circle. They are cool girls who like to spend time with and have sex with fun guys, not needy negative guys.They're no different from foreign girls but they might be slightly more fun. An example of a fun guy is Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon 2...look how he chats up Patsy Kensit...it's fun. One of Scanlas's friends benched pressed a hot irish girl in Diceys on Thurs...he met her 10 mins before...he's fun.



Look what this Irish girl has to put up with. Drunk losers. Needy whingers who abuse them and act macho chauvinist drunk when they get rejected. Unfortunately irish men need to get drunk to chat to women. Women can sense that they are not naturally confident. This is great for Scanlas and I because when chatting with girls their drunken male friends sometimes come over "who the f**k are you" and "who is this guy"...getting aggressive. This contrast with our coherent engaging of girls simply highlights our comfort with women. Thanks for writing your illustrative experience Eve. I wouldn't walk away from you (having a boyfriend) if our conversation was interesting and we're having fun.



Klaz, i just don't know where you get this stuff. Out of the last 10 dates i've been on, id say met 6 in such places...on a train...on the street...girl behind a deli...a waitress etc. restraining order? some of the girls i met were foreign but the irish girls were just as receptive...



Franner it's good to see youre chatting to a few girls. Next time you see that hot girl actually do ask her for spare change. Ask her for 20c, because you nearly have enough change to buy a pint see what she says back...be playful..I get rejected all the time just like what you described there. Obviously if im not attactive enough at that time, she'll blow me out, I don't blame the girl....although I have to admit its hilarious when an ugly cow blows you out..like WTF!

Lads can we please lay off the Irish girls for a while. It's actually far more interesting to examine the various reasons why men don't approach women per-se. And lads, we've all been in long term serious relationships...that doesn't necessarily mean theyre fun or better than being single....but this is off the point...apologies

On behalf of all Irish women, can I thank you? Seriously, I could cry I'm so grateful that an Irish man will stand up for us and tell it like it really is. If you scan back on this thread, I've been arguing with Nick for ages but had to give up. I had to give up on this thread because it was getting to bloody vitriolic and I couldn't handle it. I was sick of defending Irish women. I am a cool girl and so are my friends and I won't be boxed away with the bit*es instead of being acknowledged, along with many, many (I'd say the vast majority)of Irish women who are friendly and great craic. Why Nick and Klaz have to concentrate on the negatives and be so bit*hy about it says more about them than Irish women. I'm really not surprised they'd no luck if their posts on Boards have anything to go by.

ntlbell

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You need to read my main post for the full story. I'll say it again, there was no defence for their behaviour. End of.

in your opinion, which is fine.

it's just not necessarily right

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the main problem here is not so much the character of Irish people, but rather the dating culture that we promote. It is the heavy focus on drinking. Now a lot of what I'm going to say rests at the feet of the men that have gone before us, but women promote it also.

We, in Ireland, are proud when people say we drink a lot. In fact, its probably our best known characteristic, followed closely with friendliness. But lets face it, a lot of the friendliness is tied to the drunken behavior. But in regards to the actual dating scene in Ireland, up until maybe 5 years ago, there weren't many venues to meet women outside of the Pub & nightclub. Area's which encourage drinking, and often drinking heavily. Throw in the attitude that drinking creates more confidence, and you have a recipe for pain. Nowadays, there are more accepted venues to meet women, but even now a lot of my friends when going on a first date will pick the pub. Pretty normal by Irish & UK standards.

I really noticed this when I left Ireland properly. When I started meeting girls in cafes, at bus stops or on the street. Places which in Ireland would land you a restraining order. Sure, its changed a bit over the last few years, but its still only a relatively new change here.

Getting to the point, Irish women are used to being approached by drunken guys. And usually Irish guys that haven't stopped at drunken confidence and continued into stupid drunkenness. Which creates a whole ream of experiences that Irish women have had to endure while growing up. Which in turn has turned Irish women somewhat nasty when they've decided not to accept advances. because drunken guys just don't know when to stop, so the girls have learned extreme methods of rejecting. But the problem is that these methods are not just used towards drunken guys, but just about anyone they're not interested in.

Other countries have managed to handle it differently. Sure, there are plenty of drunken people around, but the manner of their dating scene is vastly different. Look at Spain, where drinking is commonplace, even outside before you even get into a club/pub, but there isn't the same methods being used by the women. I can point to plenty of countries in Europe, never mind the rest of the world which match that. Its only seems to be Ireland, the UK, and Australia (to a much lesser degree) that follow the extreme behavior.

So, I'm not seeking to blame Irish women, despite what a few people here seem to think. They've adapted to an environment. Its just not a particularly nice adaptation, and it does have impact on a lot of "innocent" guys out there.

Hmmmm I think you have a point but you also have to acknowledge that the "nice" girls like myself and my friend get the brunt of lads who've had to put up with knock backs from other women be they good or bad. I'm the one stuck paying the price for these men's bruised egos by being called a lesbian and getting blanked even when I was being my usual, friendly, approachable self. That ain't fair either.

To be honest, I'm done with the "sure we're great craic because we drink our own weight in alcohol every weekend" attitude. This is a major factor for me leaving this country in a few months but honestly, I think our attitude to drink in this country is changing...I'm finding more and more people opting for house parties (because of the recession no doubt but still...), giving up drink altogether, cutting down excessively and are actually becoming embarrassed by our drinking culture now. People are going abroad more and more and realising that social interaction is a bit more normal elsewhere and prefer it. I know I do. I hope to come back in a few years to find things have calmed down a bit. We all went a bit mental there with the Celtic Tiger....the Irish weren't always in the top 5 biggest consumers of alcohol pre-mid nineties, believe it or not. We couldn't afford it and it looks like things are going that way again. I think we're getting a bit more sense, tbh..were sobering up in every aspect of consumption and this can only be a positive thing.

Eve_Dublin

ntlbell wrote: »

in your opinion, which is fine.

it's just not necessarily right

Listen...if you choose not to believe me to prove your own myopic mindset, then go for it. Why can't you acknowledge that there are d*ckhead males in this country who don't know how to approach women and I've given an unbiased example of them? You don't know me OR my friend, you don't know what happened so don't try that tact with me. It's a stupid line of argument and doesn't prove your point.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Hmmmm I think you have a point but you also have to acknowledge that the "nice" girls like myself and my friend get the brunt of lads who've had to put up with knock backs from other women be they good or bad. I'm the one stuck paying the price for these men's bruised egos by being called a lesbian and getting blanked even when I was being my usual, friendly, approachable self. That ain't fair either.

And I have no problem with that. As I have said multiple times that I'm not seeking to place this mentality on all women in ireland, but there are a rather large group of women that do react in such a way. Just as men are categorised by women into sections of "nice", "bastard", "Sexy", etc. You're annoyed at me because I've raised the point that many Irish women take the manner of their rejections to the extreme. I suppose it would be better if we continue to just ignore that, and consider all women to be innocent little darlings. :rolleyes:

To be honest, I'm done with the "sure we're great craic because we drink our own weight in alcohol every weekend" attitude. This is a major factor for me leaving this country in a few months but honestly, I think our attitude to drink in this country is changing...I'm finding more and more people opting for house parties (because of the recession no doubt but still...), giving up drink altogether, cutting down excessively and are actually becoming embarrassed by our drinking culture now. People are going abroad more and more and realising that social interaction is a bit more normal elsewhere and prefer it. I know I do. I hope to come back in a few years to find things have calmed down a bit. We all went a bit mental there with the Celtic Tiger....the Irish weren't always in the top 5 biggest consumers of alcohol pre-mid nineties, believe it or not. We couldn't afford it and it looks like things are going that way again. I think we're getting a bit more sense, tbh..were sobering up in every aspect of consumption and this can only be a positive thing.

I totally agree. Ireland is changing and getting a lot better in many aspects which I previously disliked about it. I also left Ireland because I hated the serious focus on drinking, and wanted to experience something different. Since I've come back, I've noticed the increased number of cafe's, and house parties instead of the focus on the pub. In my mind its an excellent change, and I hope it continues. But the dating culture while changing... has not changed completely. There is still that focus on the pub/club for many people, and people continue to get drunk while doing approaches.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Why Nick and Klaz have to concentrate on the negatives and be so bit*hy about it says more about them than Irish women. I'm really not surprised they'd no luck if their posts on Boards have anything to go by.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Awwww...fair play Sowhatchawant!! Seriously man! That's the feckin' attitude! Just don't turn into a Bitter Irish Male in his 30s (BIMIT..just coined this acronym a few seconds ago...think I'll use it from now on) like some of the other guys on this forum. Good luck and keep being the nice guy and you'll find a nice lady, I promise.

I have had no luck? haha.. actually I have had plenty of successes in Ireland over the years.. Its amazing that simply because I raise an aspect of women that you would prefer to ignore, that I'm thrown into a category of being bitchy and unsuccessful. IF I'm so bitter about Irish women, why would I post about thr drinking culture and how Irish men are responsible for the extreme rejections that Irish women throw out? Doesn't really fit into your bitter and twisted angle. And if you had actually read my previous posts before I focused on the negatives, you would have noticed that I've been promoting a fair and happy style of approaching towards women. I've also been encouraging men not be so tied to the success/failure of an approach and just enjoy the woman they're with at that given moment.

There is a problem here, and its your attitude towards any criticism of Irish women. I've asked a number of times in the last two pages why there is such a problem with discussing this subject and nobody has answered. Maybe you could?

ntlbell

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Listen...if you choose not to believe me to prove your own myopic mindset, then go for it. Why can't you acknowledge that there are d*ckhead males in this country who don't know how to approach women and I've given an unbiased example of them? You don't know me OR my friend, you don't know what happened so don't try that tact with me. It's a stupid line of argument and doesn't prove your point.

I'm right, end of.

what does that prove?

who are you to decide how someone should act or not act? you don't know me you don't know my mind set you don't know how i talk/act/approach women.

there's no written in stone way how to approach a woman all women like different ways and all men do it differently you didn't like the one in your case.

your end of buisness is a stupine line of argument because there isn''t one no one can argue with you here because we dont know you and your "cool" mates

grow bleedin up ffs.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

And I have no problem with that. As I have said multiple times that I'm not seeking to place this mentality on all women in ireland, but there are a rather large group of women that do react in such a way. Just as men are categorised by women into sections of "nice", "bastard", "Sexy", etc. You're annoyed at me because I've raised the point that many Irish women take the manner of their rejections to the extreme. I suppose it would be better if we continue to just ignore that, and consider all women to be innocent little darlings. :rolleyes:QUOTE]

Relax.

I'm not getting annoyed with you. I agreed with your post and I get your point. I suppose it's a catch 22...drunken girls acting bit*hy towards drunken guys because they're sick of drunken guys drunken approaches. Nice girl gets the brunt of it because guys have been treated badly before...nice guys get brunt of it because nice/bit*chy girls have been approached by too many drunken assh*oles. Some girls are bit*hy by default, some girls are bit*hy because of past experiences and the same applies to guys etc etc etc etc.........................................

All I want is a bit of acknowledgement, not necessarily from you, that Irish men are just as capable as acting like a-holes as Irish women and the reason why I'm taking the side of women is because you're taking the side of the men and because, lets face it, we've been the ones getting the blame on this thread generally (but that might have something to do with the fact that it's mainly men posting on here so we're not getting a fair debate going on here really). I'm getting defensive because I am one. We have a vicious circle here and everyone needs to put the drink down, get rid of their aggressive behaviour and their chips on their shoulders (men and women) and be nice to each other.

We're going through a recession, the weather is crap, I'm about to loose my job and I'm not happy living on this island at the moment. Life would be so much easier if we were a bit nicer and more understanding of each other instead of having a Lord of the Flies scenario here where we all start killing each other.

Eve_Dublin

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm right, end of.

what does that prove?

who are you to decide how someone should act or not act? you don't know me you don't know my mind set you don't know how i talk/act/approach women.

there's no written in stone way how to approach a woman all women like different ways and all men do it differently you didn't like the one in your case.

your end of buisness is a stupine line of argument because there isn''t one no one can argue with you here because we dont know you and your "cool" mates

grow bleedin up ffs.

Grow up? :rolleyes:

Why are you being so defensive of these guys?? Was it you??? Why are you taking it so personally? I'm not saying I believe all Irish men are a-holes because of this experience or even a vast minority of you...I'm just letting people here know what happened to me on Friday night and letting you know that SOME Irish men are diabolical at approaching women. That's all.What's your problem exactly? Do you always question people's stories with "well that's YOUR opinion".

I'm telling you what happened. It's up to you to judge if these guys behaviour was acceptable or not or if perhaps their behaviour could be interpreted another way. If you don't believe it...fine. What can I do. This is what happened and I accept it's from my point of view but I'll say one thing...

I always defend Irish men...I don't think Irish men are the bad guys...I like Irish men and hope to marry mine some day. I like their sense of humour and I think they're friendly but I think they/we drink too much. What I wrote in that post happened. I didn't want it to happen and but it did. I won't argue with you over this.

ntlbell

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Grow up? :rolleyes:

Why are you being so defensive of these guys?? Was it you??? What's your problem exactly? Do you always question people's stories with "well that's YOUR opinion".

I'm telling you what happened. It's up to you to judge if these guys behaviour was acceptable or not or if perhaps their behaviour could be interpreted another way. If you don't believe it...fine. What can I do. This is what happened and I accept it's from my point of view but I'll say one thing...

I always defend Irish men...I don't think Irish men are the bad guys...I like Irish men and hope to marry mine some day. I like their sense of humour and I think they're friendly but I think they/we drink too. What I wrote in that post happened. I didn't want it to happen and but it did. I won't argue with you over this.

I'm not being defensive of these guys, this is not big brother.

you can't just say "end of" and that it's point made and proven.

from what i could see they didn't do anything wrong bar ignore you when they new they were not going to get anywhere, they were obviously out for a reason and looking for something so they moved on if they stood they're abusing you or something for not then that's a totally different matter but not wasting time and moving on to do what they were out do is hardly a crime.

there's nothing to argue.

some men are morons some women are too.

it's life, it's not going to change.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Relax

I'm not getting annoyed with you.

So calling me bitchy or bitter doesn't show a level of annoyance? As for me relaxing, I don't believe I've said anything about you personally, or made comments on your experiences...

All I want is a bit of acknowledgement, not necessarily from you, that Irish men are just as capable as acting like a-holes as Irish women and the reason why I'm taking the side of women is because you're taking the side of the men and because, lets face it, we've been the ones getting the blame on this thread generally (but that might have something to do with the fact that it's mainly men posting on here so we're not getting a fair debate going on here really). I'm getting defensive because I am one. We have a vicious circle here and everyone needs to put the drink down, get rid of their aggressive behaviour and their chips on their shoulders (men and women) and be nice to each other.

You have already gotten a number of acknowledgments by male posters here, including myself that Irish men can get drunk, make approaches, and push too much.

And I'm not taking sides. If anything I've criticized both sexes in this. The reason I've done so, is because both men and women are responsible for the dating culture in Ireland. But the problem is that after only a few pages of talking about the negative aspects of Irish women, I'm getting labeled as being bitchy. Better yet, not even negative aspects of Irish women, but the negative reactions of Irish women to approaches by nice guys.

So, you might understand why I raised an eyebrow when I saw your "relax" comment. :rolleyes:

We're going through a recession, the weather is crap, I'm about to loose my job and I'm not happy living on this island at the moment. Life would be so much easier if we were a bit nicer and more understanding of each other instead of having a Lord of the Flies scenario here where we all start killing each other.

Sorry to break it to you, but most of us are in the same situation.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

I have had no luck? haha.. actually I have had plenty of successes in Ireland over the years.. Its amazing that simply because I raise an aspect of women that you would prefer to ignore, that I'm thrown into a category of being bitchy and unsuccessful. IF I'm so bitter about Irish women, why would I post about thr drinking culture and how Irish men are responsible for the extreme rejections that Irish women throw out? Doesn't really fit into your bitter and twisted angle. And if you had actually read my previous posts before I focused on the negatives, you would have noticed that I've been promoting a fair and happy style of approaching towards women. I've also been encouraging men not be so tied to the success/failure of an approach and just enjoy the woman they're with at that given moment.

There is a problem here, and its your attitude towards any criticism of Irish women. I've asked a number of times in the last two pages why there is such a problem with discussing this subject and nobody has answered. Maybe you could?

Right then...I think were on the same page then. I stand corrected. I just don't think the bit*hy behaviour (men and women) is as wide spread as some people on this thread argue it is.

Jaysus, from my experience, men ARE still approaching women. At least in my experience and from what I've observed.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

So calling me bitchy or bitter doesn't show a level of annoyance? As for me relaxing, I don't believe I've said anything about you personally, or made comments on your experiences...



You have already gotten a number of acknowledgments by male posters here, including myself that Irish men can get drunk, make approaches, and push too much.

And I'm not taking sides. If anything I've criticized both sexes in this. The reason I've done so, is because both men and women are responsible for the dating culture in Ireland. But the problem is that after only a few pages of talking about the negative aspects of Irish women, I'm getting labeled as being bitchy. Better yet, not even negative aspects of Irish women, but the negative reactions of Irish women to approaches by nice guys.

So, you might understand why I raised an eyebrow when I saw your "relax" comment. :rolleyes:



Sorry to break it to you, but most of us are in the same situation.

Oh for crying out loud! I tried to make light of it all with my last paragraph...it was a joke and I was speaking generally, not just for myself. Jeez! Crack a smile there, man!

Listen...I accussed you of being bit*hy before I read your post. I missed it (forgot my contacts today) and that's why I commented on it after I made the accussation so stop multi-quoting me and taking what I said out of context and sequence. We are actually on the same page here it would seem except I don't think it's as big a deal as you as I'm still getting chatted up every time I go out (without the OH).

Ah feck it...couldn't be ar*ed. I just get riled up the opinons of a view (non-single) men on an internet forum...not worth it. This thread will never end because the argument is going round in circles when I think we've already hit the nail on the head repeatedly. I'm off again....take care...

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Oh for crying out loud! I tried to make light of it all with my last paragraph...it was a joke and I was speaking generally, not just for myself. Jeez! Crack a smile there, man!

Listen...I accussed you of being bit*hy before I read your post. I missed it (forgot my contacts today) and that's why I commented on it after I made the accussation so stop multi-quoting me and taking what I said out of context and sequence. We are actually on the same page here it would seem except I don't think it's as big a deal as you as I'm still getting chatted up every time I go out (without the OH).

Eve_Dublin, the part in bold really gets me going. I quoted what you said, and I haven't left anything out. It was not out of context. Sequence, sure, but they lead on from each other well enough. These were your points about me, and my posts. You have tried to be flippant about what I've said, and that's another annoyance, because a few posts later you say you agree, and then reverse direction once again.

Just a question though...if you acknowledge that the reason Irish women act the way they do, why do you continue to go on about it?

Go on about it? Jesus, ****ing, Christ! there have been, what, 3 pages with me talking about the bad side of Irish women's responses. No attack on Irish women, but the manner they choose to show their rejections. And you still have not answered my question... why is it such a problem to talk about it?

TBH, this thread would probably have gone back to talking about general approaches, if you hadn't raised the whole "going on about it" crap, but that kind of mindset annoys me.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

Eve_Dublin, the part in bold really gets me going. I quoted what you said, and I haven't left anything out. It was not out of context. Sequence, sure, but they lead on from each other well enough. These were your points about me, and my posts. You have tried to be flippant about what I've said, and that's another annoyance, because a few posts later you say you agree, and then reverse direction once again.



Go on about it? Jesus, ****ing, Christ! there have been, what, 3 pages with me talking about the bad side of Irish women's responses. No attack on Irish women, but the manner they choose to show their rejections. And you still have not answered my question... why is it such a problem to talk about it?

TBH, this thread would probably have gone back to talking about general approaches, if you hadn't raised the whole "going on about it" crap, but that kind of mindset annoys me.

Listen man...I can't argue with you. There's no arguing with you...it's impossible. You are always right and you also demonstrated this in other threads. I'm acknowledging I was wrong. If you notice (I can't multi-quote)..I said I saw your point. I'm entitled to change my views and I do all the time but I haven't changed them radically. I agree with your point but my main point is and always has been that I think the a-hole men to a-hole women ratio is roughly the same but I don't think it's that big of a deal or that prevalent. I agree with the point you made as to WHY they are that way.

Listen, this whole thread has generally had an anti IRISH female tone to it and I'm defending my corner.

okie dokie. (at least until you edited the post. :rolleyes:)

Anyone want to lead the topic back into relevant areas? I'm off to have lunch.

Eve_Dublin

I'll say it again, Men do approach women...men approach Irish women. It happens.

ntlbell

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I'll say it again, Men do approach women...men approach Irish women. It happens.

thread closed then?

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

okie dokie.

Anyone want to lead the topic back into relevant areas? I'm off to have lunch.

:rolleyes:

starbelgrade

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

On behalf of all Irish women, can I thank you? Seriously, I could cry I'm so grateful that an Irish man will stand up for us and tell it like it really is. If you scan back on this thread, I've been arguing with Nick for ages but had to give up. I had to give up on this thread because it was getting to bloody vitriolic and I couldn't handle it. I was sick of defending Irish women. I am a cool girl and so are my friends and I won't be boxed away with the bit*es instead of being acknowledged, along with many, many (I'd say the vast majority)of Irish women who are friendly and great craic. Why Nick and Klaz have to concentrate on the negatives and be so bit*hy about it says more about them than Irish women. I'm really not surprised they'd no luck if their posts on Boards have anything to go by.

Well said... Irish women are in general, easy to approach & good craic to chat with, as long as you act normal, don't bullsh*t and are comfortable in your own skin. If you have problems with them, I'd suggest that it's your own fault.

scanlas

Irish males are on average an insecure group of people. It's why they don't approach sober,it's why they can't approach being themselves and have to put on a persona when they finally get drunk enough. If you can't walk up to any woman and introduce yourself while feeling calm there is work to be done on yourself, and women giving you a bad reaction is not an excuse for not feeling calm, it just means there's work to be done on yourself. A tiger chasing you while you approach a woman would be a valid excuse for feeling anxious. There's plenty of evidence for how insecure Irish males are, just look at the suicide and depression figures, also the alcohol consumption. The excessive complaining of Irish males would be more evidence of low self esteem. I find it astonishing that the government hasn't learned the cause of excessive drinking is low self esteem. They try to solve the problem with taxes and regulation, this just treats the symptoms and not the root cause of the problem.

Every teenager in school should be given "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth" to read and be given practical lessons on presence. That would lessen anger, violence and low self esteem in the country dramatically if it was implimented correctly.

Loula

On nights out with my girl friends, I can only imagine how intimidating it must be for any guy who comes over chatting to one if us. That said, we'd never have a go at him for having the guts (not unless he was a complete shleeebheeen, in which case we would make a swift yet non offensive exit)!!! Irish girls can be great craic,and I do think we're sociable. But like anywhere, there are always going to be a few lurking tigers to rattle you guys!!

Ps: Why don't girls approach guys?! You guys might be crapping it, but at least you make more of a move than most girls,kudos!

scanlas

Loula wrote: »

On nights out with my girl friends, I can only imagine how intimidating it must be for any guy who comes over chatting to one if us. That said, we'd never have a go at him for having the guts (not unless he was a complete shleeebheeen, in which case we would make a swift yet non offensive exit)!!! Irish girls can be great craic,and I do think we're sociable. But like anywhere, there are always going to be a few lurking tigers to rattle you guys!!

Ps: Why don't girls approach guys?! You guys might be crapping it, but at least you make more of a move than most girls,kudos!

Well I don't think guys deserve kudos for doing more approaches than women. Men have been endowed with natural traits such as assertiveness, decisiveness and dominance which makes it easier for them to approach. The problem is that these characteristics have been suppressed in most males through social conditioning and slaps on the wrist when they display these traits. Hence most males aren't really happy, if you ask them if they are happy they might say yes, but deep down they know something just isn't right. Maybe they keep thinking that they will be happy some vague time in the future, but the happiness and true fulfillment will never come until they release their true masculine traits. An example of suppressed male activity would be a man asking a woman what she would like to do tonight, she answers, I don't know whatever you want, then the man says I don't know, what would you like to do, and so it goes on and on and maybe they have a little argument about it. The masculine male has an idea and says tonight we're going to xyz. Done. Decisive and assertive with a dash of dominance. Sexy as f**k.

Loula

scanlas wrote: »

Well I don't think guys deserve kudos for doing more approaches than women. Men have been endowed with natural traits such as assertiveness, decisiveness and dominance which makes it easier for them to approach. The problem is that these characteristics have been suppressed in most males through social conditioning and slaps on the wrist when they display these traits. Hence most males aren't really happy, if you ask them if they are happy they might say yes, but deep down they know something just isn't right. Maybe they keep thinking that they will be happy some vague time in the future, but the happiness and true fulfillment will never come until they release their true masculine traits. An example of suppressed male activity would be a man asking a woman what she would like to do tonight, she answers, I don't know whatever you want, then the man says I don't know, what would you like to do, and so it goes on and on and maybe they have a little argument about it. The masculine male has an idea and says tonight we're going to xyz. Done. Decisive and assertive with a dash of dominance. Sexy as f**k.

You make a good point, my only point was if they are so repressed, and as you said previously Irish males are on average quite insecure; surely we can give credit where due when they do work up the balls to approach girls.

scanlas

Loula wrote: »

You make a good point, my only point was they are so repressed, and as you said previously Irish males are on average quite insecure; surely we can give credit where due when they do work up the balls to approach girls.

I agree any guy or girl who pushes through their fear or anxiety deserves admiration.

Eve_Dublin

scanlas wrote: »

Well I don't think guys deserve kudos for doing more approaches than women. Men have been endowed with natural traits such as assertiveness, decisiveness and dominance which makes it easier for them to approach. The problem is that these characteristics have been suppressed in most males through social conditioning and slaps on the wrist when they display these traits. Hence most males aren't really happy, if you ask them if they are happy they might say yes, but deep down they know something just isn't right. Maybe they keep thinking that they will be happy some vague time in the future, but the happiness and true fulfillment will never come until they release their true masculine traits. An example of suppressed male activity would be a man asking a woman what she would like to do tonight, she answers, I don't know whatever you want, then the man says I don't know, what would you like to do, and so it goes on and on and maybe they have a little argument about it. The masculine male has an idea and says tonight we're going to xyz. Done. Decisive and assertive with a dash of dominance. Sexy as f**k.

Yep, it's all true. This is why I would never, ever give an Irish fella a hard time for approaching me. It takes some balls and to do it soberly, I've gone out with guys on dates just because they had the balls to ask me out soberly, even if I didn't initially fancy them. That confidence is absolutely sexy as f**k.

T "real deal" J

starbelgrade wrote: »

Well said... Irish women are in general, easy to approach & good craic to chat with, as long as you act normal, don't bullsh*t and are comfortable in your own skin. If you have problems with them, I'd suggest that it's your own fault.

simple as that really. don't blame women on your own failings.

Loula wrote:

You make a good point, my only point was if they are so repressed, and as you said previously Irish males are on average quite insecure; surely we can give credit where due when they do work up the balls to approach girls. .

True, girls act cool with guys who approach and are being honest about their intentions and being themselves. I got approached by a drunk girl last Thursday in a club/pub. She was incoherent and coming on strong without engaging me, unattractive even though she was hot.I was just thinking "hey im not that easy, this is how girls must feel".

Eve_Dublin wrote:

Yep, it's all true. This is why I would never, ever give an Irish fella a hard time for approaching me. It takes some balls and to do it soberly, I've gone out with guys on dates just because they had the balls to ask me out soberly, even if I didn't initially fancy them. That confidence is absolutely sexy as f**k. .

This is where I feel guys who are confident have an advantage with Irish women. They're so used to drunk irish guys "hitting" on them, can they not be themselves? the sauna girl was equally shocked as happy when I asked her out...it made her day. In america i think maybe sauna-girls would not be as shocked because they're used to more confident american guys.


Hello Eve and Loula, you guys seem fun. I think you should join Scanlas and I for a drink in Diceys (eur3 per drink all night) this THursday. It would be fun and interesting to continue this chat and observe all of this in operation. Also, Nicknolte and Klaz should come to Diceys to represent their side, then we can all finish this topic together and have a good time.

donster79

scanlas wrote: »

Irish males are on average an insecure group of people. It's why they don't approach sober,it's why they can't approach being themselves and have to put on a persona when they finally get drunk enough. If you can't walk up to any woman and introduce yourself while feeling calm there is work to be done on yourself, and women giving you a bad reaction is not an excuse for not feeling calm, it just means there's work to be done on yourself. A tiger chasing you while you approach a woman would be a valid excuse for feeling anxious. There's plenty of evidence for how insecure Irish males are, just look at the suicide and depression figures, also the alcohol consumption. The excessive complaining of Irish males would be more evidence of low self esteem. I find it astonishing that the government hasn't learned the cause of excessive drinking is low self esteem. They try to solve the problem with taxes and regulation, this just treats the symptoms and not the root cause of the problem.

Every teenager in school should be given "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth" to read and be given practical lessons on presence. That would lessen anger, violence and low self esteem in the country dramatically if it was implimented correctly.

No offence dude but your full of sh1t. I bet your a wannabe psychiatrist who fantasises about sitting in the psychiatrists chair, with the jacket that has patches on the sleeves, explaining the ways of the world to lesser mortals.

I bet you even have the stupid, well groomed beard.

NickNolte

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

No Nick, I'm not even going to argue with you over this. We were very, very friendly and open with this guys (not the two shouting at us walking home...I told them where to go, obviously) as I said in the post but as always, some guys mistake friendliness with flirting. We did NOT deserve this treatment, it was completely uninstigated (even though I know you wish it was to prove your myopic viewpoint). We've both travelled and are used to interacting with people and were happy to chat with anyone that night and that's why we went out!! If we didn't want to talk to anyone else then we would have sat in my flat.

It's a case of you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If I wasn't friendly and blanked these guys immediately, I'm a bit*ch but even when I'm friendly, smiley and chatty, they take it as flirting and if I tell them I'm not interested (in a nice way) or that I'm not single (which is the case), then I get blanked or called a lesbian anyway.

Just face the facts that not all Irish men have the whole chatting up women down to a tee and alot of them (all of them this particular night) are just plan obnoxious! My ENGLISH friend was shocked at their behaviour and asked me how I could put up with that.

Anyway, I'll leave ye to it again. These experiences are not a first for me in this country. I don't always go out with another girl alone so I'm not approached as much if I'm with a group or just my OH but if this is what other Irish women have to put up with from other Irish men, then I pity them, I really do.

Take care. I hope you find your answer. Maybe it's more close to home than you think.

Take it easy. When I said 'no excuse for that kind of behaviour' I was talking about the idiots that were trying to chat you up.

NickNolte

At the end of the day, if you walk away from this thread with the belief that a culture of social aggression and bitchyness amongst many Irish women is the figment of the imaginations of a load of bitter, drunken 30-something men who have no success with women... then you're only deluding yourself.

Eve_Dublin - before you go on the defensive again, I'm not talking about you or your mates, who are all wonderful I'm sure. Much like my female Irish friends. I'm talking about a sizeable minorityof Irish women who have adopted completely bitchy attitudes over the last 10 or so years. If you think it doesn't exist, you're entitled to your opinion. Personally, I know it does.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

Take it easy. When I said 'no excuse for that kind of behaviour' I was talking about the idiots that were trying to chat you up.

Fine but I was referring to the reap what you sow comment. I sowed nowt and neither did my FOREIGN friend. Perhaps I'm getting the wrong end of the stick?


Anyway, doesn't matter. You know how I feel at this stage and visa versa. There's nothing to say from either of us that hasn't been said before except perhaps trying to find a solution. I liked Scanla's insight into Irish men though. It makes a heap of sense. My heart actually goes out to you guys...genuinely. Irish men abroad are hot sh*t but in their own country, they rely heavily on drink for confidence.

Why in God's name are we so socially retarded and insecure in this country?? Catholic Church?? Look at Spain, France and Italy...they seem to get on grand. Years of oppression? Were not the only ones by a long shot. God knows...anyone else have any ideas?? Why are we like this and please, for the love of God, don't say "It's Irish women's fault" because were pretty disastrous ourselves when it comes to the dating game and most definitely don't possess the confidence of our continental cousins, for example.

This lack of confidence and the need to feign it through getting p*ssed crosses both sexes. It's Irish men getting hammered to approach an Irish woman and an Irish woman getting hammered in order to pretend she one those self-confident, self-assured, sexy, sassy females they see all around them when they go abroad or in every magazine or tv programme. Believe me when I tell you that this "confidence" or "attitude" you come across with an Irish woman (except maybe the D4 breed...not sure where they pulled their confidence out of)is all a facade. They're acting like they think they should act and it's all aided with alcohol. I'm speaking from personal experience.

NickNolte

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Fine but I was referring to the reap what you sow comment. I sowed nowt and neither did my FOREIGN friend. Perhaps I'm getting the wrong end of the stick?


Anyway, doesn't matter. You know how I feel at this stage and visa versa. There's nothing to say from either of us that hasn't been said before except perhaps trying to find a solution. I liked Scanla's insight into Irish men though. It makes a heap of sense. My heart actually goes out to you guys...genuinely. Irish men abroad are hot sh*t but in their own country, they rely heavily on drink for confidence.

Why in God's name are we so socially retarded and insecure in this country?? Catholic Church?? Look at Spain, France and Italy...they seem to get on grand. Years of oppression? Were not the only ones by a long shot. God knows...anyone else have any ideas?? Why are we like this and please, for the love of God, don't say "It's Irish women's fault" because were pretty disastrous ourselves when it comes to the dating game and most definitely don't possess the confidence of our continental cousins, for example.

This lack of confidence and the need to feign it through getting p*ssed crosses both sexes. It's Irish men getting hammered to approach an Irish woman and an Irish woman getting hammered in order to pretend she one those self-confident, self-assured, sexy, sassy females they see all around them when they go abroad or in every magazine or tv programme. Believe me when I tell you that this "confidence" or "attitude" you come across with an Irish woman (except maybe the D4 breed...not sure where they pulled their confidence out of)is all a facade. They're acting like they think they should act and it's all aided with alcohol. I'm speaking from personal experience.

I don't really know what's wrong with our society nor do I care that much anymore. Certainly less as I grow older. If Irish people want to be a bunch of insecure, cliquey, socially retarded morons then they're welcome to it.

To be honest, I've lost a lot of respect for your argument (not that you care) seeing as you're bigging up Scanlas just because he agrees with your POV. His posts are bats**t bonkers to be frank.

Eve_Dublin

T real deal J wrote: »

Hello Eve and Loula, you guys seem fun. I think you should join Scanlas and I for a drink in Diceys (eur3 per drink all night) this THursday. It would be fun and interesting to continue this chat and observe all of this in operation. Also, Nicknolte and Klaz should come to Diceys to represent their side, then we can all finish this topic together and have a good time.

No f*ck off!! I wouldn't be seen dead with you if you were the last man in Dublin!!

See what I did there?? Har har...

Not this week, man but thanks! Friend visiting the country with her non-Irish boyfriend that she kept a secret for a whole year. Need to give him the once over and see if he's good enough for my old pal. Rain check though, yeah?

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

I don't really know what's wrong with our society nor do I care that much anymore. Certainly less as I grow older. If Irish people want to be a bunch of insecure, cliquey, socially retarded morons then they're welcome to it.

To be honest, I've lost a lot of respect for your argument (not that you care) seeing as you're bigging up Scanlas just because he agrees with your POV. His posts are bats**t bonkers to be frank.

Are you not Irish yourself then, Nick? You're not doing a Duke of Wellington on me, are you?

The open-ended question wasn't directed at you because I had my suspicions you'd come out with something like the above.

And when did you ever have respect for my argument?? I recall us being so at odds with each other that I had to apologise for calling you an a-hole so no loss really.

I agreed with his last point and that's what I was referring to. The rest of his comments are hit and miss, I would agree with you there but I find his point-of-view an interesting read because it differs from the same points rehashed for the past...is it 500 pages now?

NickNolte

Whatever. You're so quick to praise anybody who agrees with you, regardless of how incredibly mental their posts, that I suspect you're not really worth debating with. I'll leave it at that.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

Whatever. You're so quick to praise anybody who agrees with you, regardless of how incredibly mental their posts, that I suspect you're not really worth debating with. I'll leave it at that.

Speak for yourself. Did he actually agree with me?? When did I speak about Irish male insecurity before this? I agreed with one of this posts and that's it. Can't see what was so mental about that last post...made perfect sense to me but yeah, lets leave it at that.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

Whatever. You're so quick to praise anybody who agrees with you, regardless of how incredibly mental their posts, that I suspect you're not really worth debating with. I'll leave it at that.

And it's a bit late to claim I'm not really worth debating with, isn't it? Haha!

NickNolte

I didn't say "it's", I said "you're". And yeah, let's leave it at that.

22diamonds

veryangryman wrote: »

+1

Millwall, Millwall, you're all really dreadful, and all your girlfriends are unfulfilled and alienated.

Brilliant! :pac:

Loula

T real deal J wrote: »

simple as that really. don't blame women on your own failings.



True, girls act cool with guys who approach and are being honest about their intentions and being themselves. I got approached by a drunk girl last Thursday in a club/pub. She was incoherent and coming on strong without engaging me, unattractive even though she was hot.I was just thinking "hey im not that easy, this is how girls must feel".



This is where I feel guys who are confident have an advantage with Irish women. They're so used to drunk irish guys "hitting" on them, can they not be themselves? the sauna girl was equally shocked as happy when I asked her out...it made her day. In america i think maybe sauna-girls would not be as shocked because they're used to more confident american guys.


Hello Eve and Loula, you guys seem fun. I think you should join Scanlas and I for a drink in Diceys (eur3 per drink all night) this THursday. It would be fun and interesting to continue this chat and observe all of this in operation. Also, Nicknolte and Klaz should come to Diceys to represent their side, then we can all finish this topic together and have a good time.

My friends are always trying to get me to Dicey's. I'm not round Dublah anytime soon I'm afeared....I'd have gone and all for the craic!!!

NickNolte wrote: »

At the end of the day, if you walk away from this thread with the belief that a culture of social aggression and bitchyness amongst many Irish women is the figment of the imaginations of a load of bitter, drunken 30-something men who have no success with women... then you're only deluding yourself.

Eve_Dublin - before you go on the defensive again, I'm not talking about you or your mates, who are all wonderful I'm sure. Much like my female Irish friends. I'm talking about a sizeable minorityof Irish women who have adopted completely bitchy attitudes over the last 10 or so years. If you think it doesn't exist, you're entitled to your opinion. Personally, I know it does.

Won't take it away from you NickNolte, there are a ridiculous amount of girls out there like that!

SoWatchaWant

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not about stopping entirely. If you do that, you'll miss out on the truly exceptional Irish women out there that welcome the chance to meet someone new, regardless of whether they're interested in a romantic/intimate setting or just friendship.

But there's nothing wrong with identifying that a problem exists in a society, and talking about it. Ignoring it only allows it to continue and grow worse. And it will grow worse over time. There is a rather large difference in the type of reactions given by girls 10 years ago compared with present day.

If there was a thread up about the dangerous interest of Irish men in getting drunk on Saturday nights, I doubt there would be any problem talking about it. Or a thread asking why there are so many men that are bastards.. Why is there a problem with talking about this? Is it just because its directed at women by men?

Lol, it wasn't directed against those who still soldier on and meet Irish girls, and comment about the attitudes they encounter. Fair play to the lads who do- I meant the lads who've thrown in the towel.

No, you're right to talk about it. It's just that I've mates who've given up on Irish girls as a form of bizarre protest... doesn't stop them from bitching about it though. That's what I've got a problem with.

scanlas

In my opinion the real reason you get people whining about bitchy women and putting so much energy into their whining, instead of say the injustice of starving children in Africa comes down to beliefs of status.

The likes of Nicknolte has a belief in his head of the type of people he is superior to and the types he is inferior to. When say a 21 year old woman, who in his eyes is below him, treats him like he is below her this really tics him off. Guys like Nicknolte have beliefs about the world which they identify with, and when the world gives them evidence to the contrary of their beliefs it causes a cascade of negative emotions to flood his body. The whining in my opinion is a manifestation of these bad emotions. Also it's a great way to avoid having to confront your own inadequacies. Maybe Irish women are statistically more bitchy on average than most. I don't even let those thoughts enter my reality.It's a waste of precious time and emotional energy. I don't care if they are or not. A bitchy rejection does not affect my self worth. My self worth is insulated form outside fleeting circumstances.

NickNolte

You speak some amount of babble to be fair.

SoWatchaWant

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

Lol, it wasn't directed against those who still soldier on and meet Irish girls, and comment about the attitudes they encounter. Fair play to the lads who do- I meant the lads who've thrown in the towel.

No, you're right to talk about it. It's just that I've mates who've given up on Irish girls as a form of bizarre protest... doesn't stop them from bitching about it though. That's what I've got a problem with.

I'm not advocating giving up on Irish women. I just believe that Irish men shouldn't continue to take the bull****. The only thing wrong with complaining about this is, if the person does nothing about the complaints. I fully believe that guys should continue to approach Irish women, and influence them away from the bitchy behavior. But then, I feel that its Irish men themselves who have influenced Irish women to be this way in the first place.. Not excusing Irish women from responsibility, but sharing it.

I stopped chasing Irish women because, well, I love Asian women. If I had met a Irish woman with Asian features, I probably wouldn't have any problems approaching them.

Affable

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not advocating giving up on Irish women. I just believe that Irish men shouldn't continue to take the bull****. The only thing wrong with complaining about this is, if the person does nothing about the complaints. I fully believe that guys should continue to approach Irish women, and influence them away from the bitchy behavior. But then, I feel that its Irish men themselves who have influenced Irish women to be this way in the first place.. Not excusing Irish women from responsibility, but sharing it.

I stopped chasing Irish women because, well, I love Asian women. If I had met a Irish woman with Asian features, I probably wouldn't have any problems approaching them.

Do good food too. Thrown in to the bargain.

Affable

Affable wrote: »

Do good food too. Thrown in to the bargain.

My partner speaks better English than most Irish people I know, and without any accent.... :rolleyes:

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not advocating giving up on Irish women. I just believe that Irish men shouldn't continue to take the bull****. The only thing wrong with complaining about this is, if the person does nothing about the complaints. I fully believe that guys should continue to approach Irish women, and influence them away from the bitchy behavior. But then, I feel that its Irish men themselves who have influenced Irish women to be this way in the first place.. Not excusing Irish women from responsibility, but sharing it.

I stopped chasing Irish women because, well, I love Asian women. If I had met a Irish woman with Asian features, I probably wouldn't have any problems approaching them.

Fair enough. I couldn't argue with anything you've said there.

Like yourself Klaz, my personal preference would not be for Irish men but would be for Spanish men. I've always had a massive thing for their looks (dark hair, brown eyes, dark skin), their easy-going nature, their ability to laugh at themselves and their ability to charm the pants of any woman they come across without gallons of alcohol in their gut. I'm a sucker for it and that's just the way it goes. You can't really help who you're attracted to. A lot of men are into Asian women and to be honest, if I was a man, I probably would be too because lets face it, they can be very, very hot. I'm not going to convince you otherwise and visa versa.

I'm just going to make a point that's been niggling at me and I'm not directing this at anyone specifically. If some Irish men don't fancy Irish women because (and let's be honest here) we're not as good-looking as "de farginars", then that's fine but sometimes this is the sole reason they give for preferring them (look at some AH threads and you'll see). Good-looking people tend to get away with a HELL of a lot more than your average Joe Soap and I'd say this is definitely the case when it comes to women. That's just the way it is in the society we live in today. Women tend to overlook obvious superficial flaws in a man whereas some men wouldn't forgive woman for having a bit of a belly or even short hair (again, look at some of the threads on PI and AH). I'm not accusing Klaz or Nick of this but this is definitely the case with a lot of Irish men on this forum. Some of the threads in AH are just plain offensive. Irish women are repeatedly slagged off for being ugly and fat compared to foreign ladies.

Once again, this is not directed at anyone in here but there has been the occasional post on this thread commenting on the looks of Irish women and usually in a negative manner. Their whole argument was that they wouldn't go near us because we're fat and ugly and caked in fake tan etc compared to "foreign" women. Fine. That's cool. Freedom of speech and all that but I really doubt there'd be as much vitriol directed at Irish women if we resembled, say, all the beautiful women from Sweden, Brazil and Italy put together.

We really can't help what we look like and don't forget, your mothers are our mothers too.

What do you guys think? Maybe I'm wrong.

Eve_Dublin

A bit off track with this, I think, but I can never resist posting.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Fair enough. I couldn't argue with anything you've said there.

Like yourself Klaz, my personal preference would not be for Irish men but would be for Spanish men. I've always had a massive thing for their looks (dark hair, brown eyes, dark skin), their easy-going nature, their ability to laugh at themselves and their ability to charm the pants of any woman they come across without gallons of alcohol in their gut. I'm a sucker for it and that's just the way it goes. You can't really help who you're attracted to. A lot of men are into Asian women and to be honest, if I was a man, I probably would be too because lets face it, they can be very, very hot. I'm not going to convince you otherwise and visa versa.

I actually never had such an interest in Asian women until I started living in Australia and then China. It was only when i saw their way of life/culture, and their beauty that I found myself hooked. I still like white women, but i find that its rarer that I see one I'm attracted to. I've seen some breathtakingly beautiful black women, but as a race, they don't float my boat. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm just going to make a point that's been niggling at me and I'm not directing this at anyone specifically. If some Irish men don't fancy Irish women because (and let's be honest here) we're not as good-looking as "de farginars", then that's fine but sometimes this is the sole reason they give for preferring them (look at some AH threads and you'll see).

TBH if its the sole reason, then its likely they've never actually been with any. I've had 14 Asian girlfriends from various countries in Asia. If a person has a realistic attraction for these girls, it will be more than the physical. It will have to have a major connection to their culture and traditions otherwise its a "wet dream", a Fantasy image. Unlike other races, its next to impossible to find an Asian girl that isn't heavily connected to their culture..

Good-looking people tend to get away with a HELL of a lot more than your average Joe Soap and I'd say this is definitely the case when it comes to women. That's just the way it is in the society we live in today. Women tend to overlook obvious superficial flaws in a man whereas some men wouldn't forgive woman for having a bit of a belly or even short hair (again, look at some of the threads on PI and AH). I'm not accusing Klaz or Nick of this but this is definitely the case with a lot of Irish men on this forum. Some of the threads in AH are just plain offensive. Irish women are repeatedly slagged off for being ugly and fat compared to foreign ladies.

I think you're overstating things. Irish men get slagged for quite a bit as well. Sure, women get the brunt when it comes to their physical beauty, but TBH women themselves have encouraged this kind of hype..

But the comparisons to foreign women are silly. We are a small nation, with a rather small population. Every country has what might be considered good looking or ugly. The difference is that their populations are much larger, so its easier to find the women that appeal to your taste.

And I wouldn't go to AH for intelligent discussions. Its a mud fight.

Once again, this is not directed at anyone in here but there has been the occasional post on this thread commenting on the looks of Irish women and usually in a negative manner. Their whole argument was that they wouldn't go near us because we're fat and ugly and caked in fake tan etc compared to "foreign" women. Fine. That's cool. Freedom of speech and all that but I really doubt there'd be as much vitriol directed at Irish women if we resembled, say, all the beautiful women from Sweden, Brazil and Italy put together.

haha... I think Irish people as a race aren't particularly attractive. But then again, there's plenty of nationalities out there that I also don't particularly like. But that's a personal biological or mental stance. Other people I know think Irish people are very sexy, especially our accents. My own partner thinks I'm sexy, and god knows, I've never considered myself even close to being handsome never mind about being sexy. Too tall, skinny, with a rather large nose. A handsome telephone pole. My partner on the other hand is amazingly beautiful in my eyes, and in China she's considered rather plain looking...

We really can't help what we look like and don't forget, your mothers are our mothers too.

What do you guys think? Maybe I'm wrong.

About the mothers definitely. My mother is not your mother. The rest I can agree with you, although, I do think you're overstating things just a wee bit.