Why don't men approach women?

MIN2511

Will this conversation ever end?

MIN2511

MIN2511 wrote: »

Will this conversation ever end?

Why do you bother posting at all? If you don't like this topic, move on to something else, and let those that do enjoy it, continue. :rolleyes:

Eve_Dublin

When I say "yours mother are our mothers too" I mean that we all come from the same stock and it seems that some Irish men forget this. I've come across this travelling as well and not only from the gentlemen over at AH. For example, and without blowing my own trumpet here (although it is a bit), I "hooked up" with a fella from Cork for a while and he told me he I was the first Irish woman he'd fancied in years. When I went out with himself and his local friends (non-Irish), they said right in front of me "You told us that all Irish women are ugly?" to which he replied, "Yeah, she's the exception". Nice! I came across this a few more times...Irish men making comments in front of Irish women along the lines, "Why can't Irish women look like that?" while openly admiring the local and admittedly, very beautiful locals and all I wanted to say was, "Lads...you're no oil paintings yourselves".

My comments were't directed at you Klaz as I'm guessing from your posts that you've a bit more depth to you than that but the men's opinions over at AH are just as valid as yours as they are Irish men. There's loads of threads slating Irish women and no matter how hard I searched, I didn't find the female equivalent here on boards. Women are judged on beauty more than men and of course we're partly responsible for this but what's that quote, "When will women stop looking at themselves through the eyes of men?". We've done ourselves no favours on this front, I'll admit. Still, men judge us on looks and that's what I'm talking about. No blame game here.

Anyway, a lot of men (not you) make it very clear that the reason they choose foreign women over Irish is because they are more beautiful and we're fat and ugly in comparison. Perhaps I've overstated this point but it still needs to be acknowledged. Irish men get a slating but not to the extent that we get it and honestly, I think we're both on par lookswise.

You say you can't compare us because we're a small island but a lot of men have compared Irish women to "foreign women" (i.e: all women not from the island of Ireland). This is plan stupid, as stupid as the taxi drivers moaning about de "farginars taking our jobs" but it wasn't me making these comparisons, it's men on this thread. Really dumb generalisations that have no base or logic behind them and impossible to argue against because they're essentially stupid.

Absolutely off topic but relevant nonetheless. I had to get it out of the way.

Eve_Dublin

MIN2511 wrote: »

Will this conversation ever end?

No. Now let me continue venting! I've a long, boring day at work ahead of me!

MIN2511

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you bother posting at all? If you don't like this topic, move on to something else, and let those that do enjoy it, continue. :rolleyes:

Enjoy what? All you've done is reduce this thread to bickering like children.
We generalise based on personal circumstances and experience. We should understand that 'Men would never approach women' it isn't gonna change!

MIN2511

MIN2511 wrote: »

Enjoy what? All you've done is reduce this thread to bickering like children.
We generalise based on personal circumstances and experience. We should understand that 'Men would never approach women' it isn't gonna change!

Its called a discussion. You know... people with different opinions talking amongst themselves?

Again, if you don't want this discussion to continue, why bother posting? Just ignore the thread. :rolleyes:

Eve_Dublin

MIN2511 wrote: »

Enjoy what? All you've done is reduce this thread to bickering like children.
We generalise based on personal circumstances and experience. We should understand that 'Men would never approach women' it isn't gonna change!

Ah come on! This is Boards.ie!! Is this not the whole point of this website? I choose to ignore most threads in AH because frankly, I find them offensive, unfunny and just plain stupid but hey, they're having a good time so why not leave us to it as well?

T "real deal" J

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Irish men making comments in front of Irish women along the lines, "Why can't Irish women look like that?" while openly admiring the local and admittedly, very beautiful locals and all I wanted to say was, "Lads...you're no oil paintings yourselves".

Anyway, a lot of men (not you) make it very clear that the reason they choose foreign women over Irish is because they are more beautiful and we're fat and ugly in comparison.

why don't irishmen approach women?

Again...Irishmen are not confident and need to drink to talk to women. Lads who act macho like above are insecure and generally dont have much sex with women (any,not just irishwomen). I actually feel bad for irishgirls, theres just not enough genuinely cool irish guys who enjoy the banter of female company just as much as sex.

Irish girls are amongst the hottest girls in europe! Just go out in Dublin, Diceys last night was fantastic and there's plenty of gorgeous girls, all different styles. i know people will disagree,but these girls in Diceys are nice friendly girls. irish women are also great fun in bed.

Luckily, for every 99 guys out there that have sex with 2 girls a year....there's 1 guy who has fun with girls everytime he walks out the door. He enjoys female company, he has options with women. He's not needy. In a perfect world, there would be plenty of these guys for women to enjoy...but life goes on....

scanlas

Hey T real deal J,

Sorry I couldn't make it out last night, we should go out when you get back from San Francisco.

How was your approaching last night? Have fun?

Eve_Dublin

T real deal J wrote: »

why don't irishmen approach women?

Again...Irishmen are not confident and need to drink to talk to women. Lads who act macho like above are insecure and generally dont have much sex with women (any,not just irishwomen). I actually feel bad for irishgirls, theres just not enough genuinely cool irish guys who enjoy the banter of female company just as much as sex.

Irish girls are amongst the hottest girls in europe! Just go out in Dublin, Diceys last night was fantastic and there's plenty of gorgeous girls, all different styles. i know people will disagree,but these girls in Diceys are nice friendly girls. irish women are also great fun in bed.

Luckily, for every 99 guys out there that have sex with 2 girls a year....there's 1 guy who has fun with girls everytime he walks out the door. He enjoys female company, he has options with women. He's not needy. In a perfect world, there would be plenty of these guys for women to enjoy...but life goes on....

Yep, I would agree that the abuse hurled at Irish women's attractiveness or lack thereof stems from an insecurity on the part of these men. This is this stuff of school playgrounds nationwide: making fun of others to deflect the attention away from themselves. Luckily for me, I can see right through it and don't get too upset about it, tbh...I just find it a bit disappointing. These Irish men are on par looks wise to their female counterparts but because they've been rejected so many times and in turn, so have their egos, they blame it all on us and hit it where it REALLY hurts...their/our deep-seated insecurity in their/our looks. This is just a reflection in the world we live in today. Looks are valued over intelligence, kindness, wit etc but if you're looking for the love of your life, these men have to remember that looks fade and what's left behind then?

Why don't a proportion of Irish men approach IRISH women (because that is what this discussion has become)? Because there are more attractive alternatives in this country now. I acknowledge that that's the way it is and that's just the way it goes...looks are what initially attracts you to a person and that goes for both sexes. To use these men as examples of men who won't go near an Irish woman is irrelevant to the argument that the reason we're unapproachable is because we're bit*hy and cliquey (I might have to rephrase that sentence..my brain is a bit frazzled...Friday afternoon 'n' all!)

Attractive women get away with a lot more than an average-looking woman. She's seen as some as a "challenge" as opposed to an "ugly, desperate b*tch*. I have to find the comment I read on a thread recently when an Irish man commented on how he finds it funny when he's rejected by an UGLY woman...how dare they think they're more attractive than they are! How dare they feel that the fact that they might have more to offer than just their looks actually matters! Men don't find it so amusing when good-looking women knock them back.

Unfortunately for Irish females, meeting foreign men is not as easy for some reason...there's not as many of them out and about in pubs around the country..besides from tourists and they were certainly fair game for me when I was single.

I'm only speaking about a proportion of Irish men, btw. I have to disagree with you, real deal...I still love the company of Irish men over the men of any other nationality (except maybe Spanish men) and that comes down to their sense-of-humour and their sense of fun.

I'm glad you find us up there with the sexiest in Europe but I'm not sure many Irish men would agree with you...but I do

Porkpie

The level of hostility towards men when approaching women is usually correlated to how drunk/aggressive/random/sleazy their approach is.

Eve_Dublin

Porkpie wrote: »

The level of hostility towards men when approaching women is usually correlated to how drunk/aggressive/random/sleazy their approach is.

Yeah...not everyone agrees with you on this thread though. Some men argue that the hostility isn't provoked or intigated and Irish women or a large proportion of Irish women are just bit*hy by default. Some men (not you Klaz!) can't acknowledge that perhaps the hostility IS provoked more than they'd like to admit and that Irish men are completely innocent, which is pure rubbish, of course.

ntlbell

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Yeah...not everyone agrees with you on this thread though. Some men argue that the hostility isn't provoked or intigated and Irish women or a large proportion of Irish women are just bit*hy by default. Some men (not you Klaz!) can't acknowledge that perhaps the hostility IS provoked more than they'd like to admit and that Irish men are completely innocent, which is pure rubbish, of course.

jesus, how many more pages can this go on for.

some men do approach women some don't

both will have varying different reasons on why they do and why they don't

some women do approach men some don't

both will have varying reasons on why they do and why they don't

some women are hostile to men provoked by the approach of some men some women will be just hostile.

some men know how to approach women, some don't, some men are just born w*nkers some are not.

can we have another 10 pages of pure undiluted nonsense for the sake of it please.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Perhaps Irishmen are finally arriving at the stage of realisation that Irish women are horrible creatures. This false, snobby persona of theirs just sickens me. They are all the same to me, its rare you find an individual women, most are very group orientated, like sheep in a field. Ive resigned myself to forgetting about Irish women, and im only 20. Only that the majority of lads my age are too stupid (and desperate) to realise this, women will continue to be the same.

turgon

Rayden Prehistoric Nitty-gritty wrote: »

They are all the same to me, its rare you find an individual women, most are very group orientated, like sheep in a field.

Hear hear!

'Tis the unique ones you want to be a-pullin'. And often they wont be the most obvious ones hanging around the pub.

Porkpie

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Yeah...not everyone agrees with you on this thread though. Some men argue that the hostility isn't provoked or intigated and Irish women or a large proportion of Irish women are just bit*hy by default.

Eve, unfortunately this is true to a certain extent. I guess the 'b*tchy by default' nature is based on the presumptive attitude that most men in nightclubs are tossers. It's a pity so many men get wasted before attempting to approach women. But it's also a shame that so many women don't give the genuinely nice guys a chance.

ntlbell wrote: »

can we have another 10 pages of pure undiluted nonsense for the sake of it please.

Can we have less thread-bashing and more respectful debate?

Wibbs

T real deal J wrote: »

why don't irishmen approach women?

Well for a start I've noted it's an age thing. There would be few enough single guys I know over 30 who would have much general difficulty approaching/meeting/getting/keeping women. Young guys are just finding their feet which is another part of it. Plus young women in general have a bigger premium as it were.

Again...Irishmen are not confident and need to drink to talk to women.

There's certainly a lot of that about too. I've seen it in other countries too. The Scandinavians tend to get horribly out of their bongos of a night out. A lot of the eastern European guys too. As for "pickup techniques" of different cultures, the latin chappies tend to be either very backward in coming forward or incredibly forward to a sleazy degree and they're not even mashed. It's not just Irish men. By a long shot. Plus I found with Spanish and Italian men as an example that they were far more subtly judgemental about women's looks than Irish men.

Lads who act macho like above are insecure and generally dont have much sex with women (any,not just irishwomen).

I agree with the insecure angle, but macho loud types certainly get more female attention than wallflowers as a general rule. In my experience anyway

I actually feel bad for irishgirls, theres just not enough genuinely cool irish guys who enjoy the banter of female company just as much as sex.

I would somewhat agree. Then again among the most successful men I know as far as attracting women, there are two I can think of who actually don't like women at all. They're quite open about it too. They treat them like children. The quintessentially "bad boys". That's another well trodden debate though.

Irish girls are amongst the hottest girls in europe!

Yes and no as of course it depends entirely on what your "type" is. If you like sallow skinned brunettes, you're going to be attracted to fewer. I would say that yes the average here is on a par with the average elsewhere and above places like Germany IMHO. We're a small population so if one compars Paris, Milan, Athens, London, Madrid, Stockholm etc to Dublin, well then you are definitely going to see more outside the norm beautiful women than here(men too). Stands to reason.

Just go out in Dublin, Diceys last night was fantastic and there's plenty of gorgeous girls, all different styles. i know people will disagree,but these girls in Diceys are nice friendly girls.

And the beer is cheap, which is the bonus I'd see. I'm clearly a beerosexual

irish women are also great fun in bed.

I've gone out with women of our EU neighbours and TBH I never saw any difference with the sex bit at all. Each person man or woman is an individual. The only difference I noted over the years is that as a general thing Irish women were less plucked and groomed downstairs. French women seem very into all that. Seems to be changing here though.

Luckily, for every 99 guys out there that have sex with 2 girls a year....there's 1 guy who has fun with girls everytime he walks out the door.

Too black and white by a long way. There are a fair few men who only want to have sex with 2(or 1) woman a year. They're perfectly content with that. Then you get the guy at the other end of the scale who needs to bolster his ego with notches on the bedpost. Whatever floats their boat. And in the middle you have everyone else.

He enjoys female company, he has options with women. He's not needy. In a perfect world, there would be plenty of these guys for women to enjoy...but life goes on....

While there exists men who are saps at both ends of the scale(about a third of blokes I'd say), the vast majority of men I've known, have their ups and downs in life and in love, aren't particularly needy and have enough options with enough women to be fairly happy with that.

Affable

Rayden Prehistoric Nitty-gritty wrote: »

Perhaps Irishmen are finally arriving at the stage of realisation that Irish women are horrible creatures. This false, snobby persona of theirs just sickens me. They are all the same to me, its rare you find an individual women, most are very group orientated, like sheep in a field. Ive resigned myself to forgetting about Irish women, and im only 20. Only that the majority of lads my age are too stupid (and desperate) to realise this, women will continue to be the same.

Maybe it's just women in general. I can't speak for Ireland, but the slef esteem of men this generation relative to women seems to have declined. Women seem to know men are after it and think they can do what they want.

slimwannabe

boomboombag wrote: »

Okay, was out last Friday night - was out with a load of male friends....

Saw 3 girls at the bar... went over, said hello, asked a question or two and got completly dismissed. There was no "hey, yeah, having a good time" or even a polite "sorry, we're on a girls night out". It was pretty harsh. But hey.

Thing is, if someone comes over to chat to me and I'm not interested, I'll chat back and then make my excuses... these girls left me hanging.

Later I spotted a really cute girl upstairs in the bar and later she happened to be sitting downstairs... went over, said hello and she was really chatty back. Ended up with her that night - she was really lovely and we had a great laugh (age difference was a bit too muc for anything serious though).

The first scenario is what I often experience with Irish girls. You go over being friendly and they see it as an imposition.

The second was a pleasant surprise.

I think a lot of it is to do with how open one is - the girl I ended up chatting to and kissing was very open (in a friendly way) and even if nothing had happened, I'd have walked away just happy to have chatted and met someone cool.

As for being rebuked by women, well, if a girl is going to be that dismissive when you approach her, she's probably not worth knowing.

maybe ur not trying hard enough intelligent convo is what most people r looking for where have all those guys gone????

turgon

slimwannabe wrote: »

intelligent convo is what most people r looking for where have all those guys gone????

Your taking the piss, right?

Sand

maybe ur not trying hard enough intelligent convo is what most people r looking for where have all those guys gone????

So thats what irony means...

Eve_Dublin

Rayden Prehistoric Nitty-gritty wrote: »

Perhaps Irishmen are finally arriving at the stage of realisation that Irish women are horrible creatures. This false, snobby persona of theirs just sickens me. They are all the same to me, its rare you find an individual women, most are very group orientated, like sheep in a field. Ive resigned myself to forgetting about Irish women, and im only 20. Only that the majority of lads my age are too stupid (and desperate) to realise this, women will continue to be the same.

Man...face it...you can't pull and you're putting the blame on the fact that were all "horrible creatures" instead of yourself. I'm sorry you're so bitter at such a young age....or maybe you're still going through a delayed teenage angsty stage. Whatever. You're talking through your hole. Grow up.

turgon

Hes actually not. Perhaps as a girl you cannot see it, but it is rare to find a women out who is different. Its just all a haze of monotony.

Zombrex

slimwannabe wrote: »

maybe ur not trying hard enough intelligent convo is what most people r looking for where have all those guys gone????

Maybe those girls had every drunk man in the place hassling them all night and just had had enough of men approaching them.

Or maybe they were stuck up cows who get their kicks from being rude to the poor guys who are actually brave enough to go up and say hello to them.

Who knows.

Tchaikovsky

This topic reminds me of a Spanish short-film I saw last year (can't remember the name of it unfortunately): it was set at a Madrid metro station, 1 guy 1 girl on the platform, waiting for the train. There is no dialogue, we only hear what they're thinking.. "Another night alone..", "Why won't he approach me?" etc.. there is an attraction but no move is made.
The train then comes, girl gets on, guy hesitates, she looks around to him as she steps on, pleading (in her head) "Come on! Come on!"
He can't resist.. he jumps onto the train just as the doors close.. however, she can't resist either, and at the very same time, steps off the train!
They are left to look pitifully at each other as the train departs, declaring their love for one another.. in their heads, obviously

It's not just an Irish thing, haha!

Eve_Dublin

turgon wrote: »

Hes actually not. Perhaps as a girl you cannot see it, but it is rare to find a women out who is different. Its just all a haze of monotony.

And you're telling me each Irish man I see on a night out is as individual as a snowflake on a Winters day and the hoards of men all dressed in stripy Ben Sherman shirts, black jeans and black shoes with short hair who support the same football team, drink the same beer, go for the same women, same jokes, same same same etc are only figments of my imagination? I don't think Ireland as a NATION (both men and women) go for the whole "individualism" thing in neither style nor original thought. We're a nation of conformists generally and always have been. It irritated the hell out of me too when I was in my early 20s and I'm a woman. People grow up, become more confident in themselves and develop their own personality and individualism. That's life the world over.

Don't pretend it's just the women. If you want individualism, you won't find it in Q Bar drinking vodka and red bull on a Saturday night.

I was reacting to his "horrible creatures" comment though. It reeks of bitterness and a bruised ego. Fact.

turgon

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

And you're telling me each Irish man I see on a night out is as individual....

Did I say that?

NickNolte

Comical thread. Everything seems to be centered around the pub and the counterargument seems to be how drunk and sleazy Irish men can be. How about taking another environment into account? The workplace. The number of Irish women who are officious, aggressive bullies in the workplace is shocking. Again not all Irish women, but to a large extent you stick an Irish girl into a corporate environment and she becomes an intolerable, vicious bitch.

slimwannabe

turgon wrote: »

Your taking the piss, right?

no ru????

slimwannabe

turgon wrote: »

Hes actually not. Perhaps as a girl you cannot see it, but it is rare to find a women out who is different. Its just all a haze of monotony.

ur obviously looking in the wrong places

slimwannabe

NickNolte wrote: »

Comical thread. Everything seems to be centered around the pub and the counterargument seems to be how drunk and sleazy Irish men can be. How about taking another environment into account? The workplace. The number of Irish women who are officious, aggressive bullies in the workplace is shocking. Again not all Irish women, but to a large extent you stick an Irish girl into a corporate environment and she becomes an intolerable, vicious bitch.

be a man back up for urself lol dating people at work too complicatated been there done that

turgon

slimwannabe wrote: »

no ru????

Perhaps you want "intelligent convo," but to say the women in general want it is being very untrue. That my experience anyway.

slimwannabe

turgon wrote: »

Perhaps you want "intelligent convo," but to say the women in general want it is being very untrue. That my experience anyway.

not true look elsewhere so...........:D:D:D

turgon

Im not actually looking at the moment, but if I am in the future Ill be sure to take your advice. Any specific places to find these people wanting intelligent "convo"?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

hairdressers, supermarkets and anywhere that has more copies of tabloid gossip mags than newspapers.

NickNolte

slimwannabe wrote: »

be a man back up for urself lol

Don't worry. I do. I'd rather work with mature professionals though. Is that too much to ask?

slimwannabe wrote: »

dating people at work too complicatated been there done that

Fair enough. Wouldn't do it myself.

DenMan

I've found a lot of country girls in Ireland (rural) to be knock outs. Galway and Mayo have some of the hottest girls in Ireland. I'm from Dublin and have lived and gone out with girls abroad (Malta) and have to say that Irish women are amazing. There is a certain infectious lovability about them.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

Comical thread. Everything seems to be centered around the pub and the counterargument seems to be how drunk and sleazy Irish men can be. How about taking another environment into account? The workplace. The number of Irish women who are officious, aggressive bullies in the workplace is shocking. Again not all Irish women, but to a large extent you stick an Irish girl into a corporate environment and she becomes an intolerable, vicious bitch.

Hahahaa!!! Rrrrright.....

NickNolte

Touché.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

Touché.

It's such a stupid, ignorant, sexist comment I couldn't be bothered arguing against it so touché indeed!

NickNolte

Ignorant how? It's endemic and it's a fact. Truth hurts but it certainly doesn't make me ignorant.

Eve_Dublin

DenMan wrote: »

I've found a lot of country girls in Ireland (rural) to be knock outs. Galway and Mayo have some of the hottest girls in Ireland. I'm from Dublin and have lived and gone out with girls abroad (Malta) and have to say that Irish women are amazing. There is a certain infectious lovability about them.

I have to agree...I was in Sligo recently and the amount of hot women...woah! They tend to be more outdoorsy and more active than us Dubs....and they were all absolutely sound as were the fellas. Great fun, very open and friendly. Not a stuck-up princess in sight! Genuinely, I'd love to know where the men who come across these so-called stuck up b*tches are socialising...not Cafe en Seine and bars of that ilk by any chance?

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

Ignorant how? It's endemic and it's a fact. Truth hurts but it certainly doesn't make me ignorant.

Are you trolling?

NickNolte

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Are you trolling?

No. Just stating fact. I don't really want a reaction from you. We have different opinions. That isn't going to change. Vive la difference, etc.

Funny you should mention Café en Seine. I don't frequent the place but, coincidentally, last time I was there I was chatting to some pretty sound women.

To concur for once, you do notice a big drop in princess/bitch syndrome when you leave Dublin.

Affable

In my case, it'e because relationships are unsustainable. The conversation runs out pretty soon. I know they'll get bored with someone like me.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

No. Just stating fact. I don't really want a reaction from you. We have different opinions. That isn't going to change. Vive la difference, etc.

Funny you should mention Café en Seine. I don't frequent the place but, coincidentally, last time I was there I was chatting to some pretty sound women.

To concur for once, you do notice a big drop in princess/bitch syndrome when you leave Dublin.

No, we're not going to agree on that point. That really hasn't been my experience (and I've had 35 jobs..most of them in this country...long story why..) but I did have one female boss (I was working in a Deli a student) and she might have been the most horrible individual I've ever come across in a position of power. She was hideous. I made an official complaint about her and she was fired.

I also had a male boss who tried to cop a feel of my boobs when I was 17 in the storeroom of a supermarket...I couldn't get him fired because he owned the place.


I'd even go as far as saying this princess syndrome is exclusive to certain middle-class/upper middle-class areas of South Dublin and parts of North Dublin (I'm borderline Meath so I'm not really a TRUE Dub )..I know this is the stereotype but I work in South Dublin in a very wealthy area and honestly, the types of women I come across are like nothing I've ever encountered anywhere in this country before...they were as foreign to me as the females from outer Mongolia BUT they are Irish and I will acknowledge that. They're not in my social circle or among my peers or people I work with so it doesn't bother me. Leave them and their male counterparts to it.

Eve_Dublin

Affable wrote: »

In my case, it'e because relationships are unsustainable. The conversation runs out pretty soon. I know they'll get bored with someone like me.

Why do you say that??

Affable

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Why do you say that??

I'm content with just attraction and some common ground, but some people have higher expectations, they want entertainment and hate silence etc. Or they think convo is 'old'. It's like people are more egare to stay as eternally young or something and they used to`want to grow up fast-tables shifted.

NickNolte

Affable wrote: »

I'm content with just attraction and some common ground, but some people have higher expectations, they want entertainment and hate silence etc.

If a partner can't entertain themselves, enjoy comfortable silences or be comfortable in your company then maybe they're not the right person for you (or anyone for that matter). Relationships aren't all like that.

Eve_Dublin

Affable wrote: »

I'm content with just attraction and some common ground, but some people have higher expectations, they want entertainment and hate silence etc.

Fair enough....