Why don't men approach women?

DenMan

Are you purposely trying to annoy people here NickNolte?

Affable

NickNolte wrote: »

If a partner can't entertain themselves, enjoy comfortable silences or be comfortable in your company then maybe they're not the right person for you (or anyone for that matter). Relationships aren't all like that.

Well they are not for me. but some people are kind of shallow. y'know still waters run deep and all that. Some women kind of 'use' for entertainment or try and set the agenda. In these cases you know it's unsustainable and they are fickle,\ but when you are younger you may be more naive.

Eve_Dublin

Affable wrote: »

Well they are not for me. but some people are kind of shallow. y'know still waters run deep and all that. Some women kind of 'use' for entertainment or try and set the agenda. In these cases you know it's unsustainable and they are fickle,\ but when you are younger you may be more naive.

Ah well. Each to their own.

NickNolte

DenMan wrote: »

Are you purposely trying to annoy people here NickNolte?

It couldn't possibly be as annoying as making useless contributions to the thread.

DenMan

NickNolte wrote: »

It couldn't possibly be as annoying as making useless contributions to the thread.

Obviously you haven't been reading this thread. Go back a page or so. Some of us are actually contributing to it.

NickNolte

DenMan wrote: »

Obviously you haven't been reading this thread. Go back a page or so. Some of us are actually contributing to it.

And I'm not contributing to it because you disagree with me? :rolleyes: I'm going to go back on topic. Maybe you'll do the same?

Affable

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

When I say "yours mother are our mothers too" I mean that we all come from the same stock and it seems that some Irish men forget this. I've come across this travelling as well and not only from the gentlemen over at AH. For example, and without blowing my own trumpet here (although it is a bit), I "hooked up" with a fella from Cork for a while and he told me he I was the first Irish woman he'd fancied in years. When I went out with himself and his local friends (non-Irish), they said right in front of me "You told us that all Irish women are ugly?" to which he replied, "Yeah, she's the exception". Nice! I came across this a few more times...Irish men making comments in front of Irish women along the lines, "Why can't Irish women look like that?" while openly admiring the local and admittedly, very beautiful locals and all I wanted to say was, "Lads...you're no oil paintings yourselves".

My comments were't directed at you Klaz as I'm guessing from your posts that you've a bit more depth to you than that but the men's opinions over at AH are just as valid as yours as they are Irish men. There's loads of threads slating Irish women and no matter how hard I searched, I didn't find the female equivalent here on boards. Women are judged on beauty more than men and of course we're partly responsible for this but what's that quote, "When will women stop looking at themselves through the eyes of men?". We've done ourselves no favours on this front, I'll admit. Still, men judge us on looks and that's what I'm talking about. No blame game here.

Anyway, a lot of men (not you) make it very clear that the reason they choose foreign women over Irish is because they are more beautiful and we're fat and ugly in comparison. Perhaps I've overstated this point but it still needs to be acknowledged. Irish men get a slating but not to the extent that we get it and honestly, I think we're both on par lookswise.

You say you can't compare us because we're a small island but a lot of men have compared Irish women to "foreign women" (i.e: all women not from the island of Ireland). This is plan stupid, as stupid as the taxi drivers moaning about de "farginars taking our jobs" but it wasn't me making these comparisons, it's men on this thread. Really dumb generalisations that have no base or logic behind them and impossible to argue against because they're essentially stupid.

Absolutely off topic but relevant nonetheless. I had to get it out of the way.

Tbh I don't think that many southern European women are good looking...grass is greener and it's a myth tbh. I'm English but Irish and Scottish women seem quite attractiive to me, judgin on what I've seen.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

And I'm not contributing to it because you disagree with me? :rolleyes: I'm going to go back on topic. Maybe you'll do the same?

Really though, what has women's attitudes in the work place got to do with approaching a woman you're interested in sexually? If women act like bit*hes in the work place, why in God's name would you want to approach them anyway? You're obviously speaking from experience here if your saying it's "the truth"...why did you or your friends approach women who were obvious bit*hes? I mean, that's the height of stupidity...you're asking for it really, aren't you? Bad, BAD judgement on your part, I'd say.

You accused us of only basing our argument on our experiences in clubs or bars but that's ALL you've done up until the last page. Taking this into account, I'd say your line of argument is as comical as anyone elses in here so don't just suddenly distance yourself from it and feign superiority. It's your comments that have contributed to this 500 + thread the most, I'd say.

There's actually nothing new to say, is there?

turgon

Perhaps we are victims of our own folly; that it, generalizing Women and Men respectively.

So Eve_Dublin, while it may be the opinion of some that most Women are not unique, that in no way means that you as a women arent unique or even that such a generalization I true.

Our generalizations are completely subjective. What I consider unique might be different to what you do.

And is a potential parter being unique even a problem?

NickNolte

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Really though, what has women's attitudes in the work place got to do with approaching a woman you're interested in sexually?

I was making the point that there are a large percentage of Irish women who are hostile and bitchy and that drunken, sleazy men aren't necessarily the cause of it as it seems to extend to the workplace and every other facet of Irish life.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You're obviously speaking from experience here if your saying it's "the truth"...why did you or your friends approach women who were obvious bit*hes?

I'd imagine it's kind of hard to tell from a distance. Turns out that some are and some aren't. The number that are in this country though is staggering. It's not a black and white argument... I'm simply saying that the ratio in this country seems abnormal.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I mean, that's the height of stupidity...you're asking for it really, aren't you? Bad, BAD judgement on your part, I'd say.

Asking for what? I haven't personally chatted up an Irish woman in a long time and with good reason. I can't anymore anyway!

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You accused us of only basing our argument on our experiences in clubs or bars but that's ALL you've done up until the last page.

I feel my counter-argument is perfectly apt.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

There's actually nothing new to say, is there?

Yet you continue to post. Why not just leave the thread?

Eve_Dublin

turgon wrote: »

Perhaps we are victims of our own folly; that it, generalizing Women and Men respectively.

So Eve_Dublin, while it may be the opinion of some that most Women are not unique, that in no way means that you as a women arent unique or even that such a generalization I true.

Our generalizations are completely subjective. What I consider unique might be different to what you do.

And is a potential parter being unique even a problem?

Nope. Course not. I look for uniqueness in a partner. My OH at the moment is an utter oddball, tbh and I love it. The thing is, he's almost 10 years older than I (38) so he's more comfortable being himself. He's given up conforming a long time ago and he couldn't care less what people thought of him. Sexy as hell!

Like attract alike...you meet plenty of bland couples out there and that's fine if they're happy out. You agreed with the 20 year old poster who labelled Irish women as "sheep". Fine but you also have to take into account the age group he's going for. Very few 20 year olds are totally comfortable with being themselves and you are going to find that guys and gals are that age are sticklers for what's considered fashionable and want to just fit in with their peers and be accepted.

Those who really stand out at that age are sexy as hell because they're a rarity.

Sure, aren't we all individuals? No two people are the same...at least when you get past the initial rubbish of clothing and small-talk banter. A bit more perseverance and he might find his lady instead of classing Irish women as "horrible creatures". He'll have no look with us if he essentially hates us, particularly at such a young age.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

I was making the point that there are a large percentage of Irish women who are hostile and bitchy and that drunken, sleazy men aren't necessarily the cause of it as it seems to extend to the workplace and every other facet of Irish life.



I'd imagine it's kind of hard to tell from a distance. Turns out that some are and some aren't. The number that are in this country though is staggering. It's not a black and white argument... I'm simply saying that the ratio in this country seems abnormal.



Asking for what? I haven't personally chatted up an Irish woman in a long time and with good reason. I can't anymore anyway!



I feel my counter-argument is perfectly apt.



Yet you continue to post. Why not just leave the thread?

Touché indeed.

NickNolte

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

He'll have no look with us if he essentially hates us, particularly at such a young age.

Maybe the guy just doesn't like the attitude of a lot of Irish women and is looking farther afield. Good luck to him I say.

turgon

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

He's given up conforming a long time ago and he couldn't care less what people thought of him.

Perhaps my problem is that despite being young relative to yourself, myself and many of my friends have gotten over conformist nonsense but most of the people my age wouldnt have.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You agreed with the 20 year old poster who labelled Irish women as "sheep". Fine but you also have to take into account the age group he's going for.

Yes, and I would be "targeting" the same age group. Tbh when I entered this thread I was thinking of the way most of my gf's friends act on a night out. The only thing they seem concerned about is impressing themselves and everyone else by acting as if they dont want to impress themselves and everyone else through a put-on phony "I dont care" attitude. I call that gob****ism.

But I presume that ends as people grow older.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Those who really stand out at that age are sexy as hell because they're a rarity.

I wouldn't use the word sexy myself. Perhaps endearing instead

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

No two people are the same...at least when you get past the initial rubbish of clothing and small-talk banter.

One would think so, but Im disinclined to fully agree tbh. This sameness is partly because many put up fronts to appear likable and attractive.

Affable

You know the other phenomenon that may happen to some guys, does to me? Girls are bitchy in groups. You're doing OK with one and then some girl gets bitchy or doesnt like you, they will go with other girls feelings. Men have to negotiate girls friends and most men can't be arsed with it.

turgon

turgon wrote: »

Yes, and I would be "targeting" the same age group. Tbh when I entered this thread I was thinking of the way most of my gf's friends act on a night out. The only thing they seem concerned about is impressing themselves and everyone else by acting as if they dont want to impress themselves and everyone else through a put-on phony "I dont care" attitude. I call that gob****ism.

But I presume that ends as people grow older.

I thought this was rather spot on with regards to most to the people (both men and women) I know or have seen going out to pubs/clubs. Some mind don't fall into this category.. but I find its very few really. Most people go out to be "seen", and make an impression.

I have to wonder how much older do they have to be? I'm in my mid-thirties, and so are most of my friends in Ireland.

Affable

I seee beautoiful gitrls, saw one today but they always are hard to approach in groups-I try and look unthreatening, but they look haughty.

Affable

Affable wrote: »

You know the other phenomenon that may happen to some guys, does to me? Girls are bitchy in groups. You're doing OK with one and then some girl gets bitchy or doesnt like you, they will go with other girls feelings. Men have to negotiate girls friends and most men can't be arsed with it.

I actually prefer large/medium groups of girls to groups of two. Simply because you can play them off on each other. Not in any weird way, but rather if one girl is obviously being a princess or showing other crappy behaviour, you can usually get support from their friends. Call the princess on her behaviour in a fairly funny way, or act insulted by her actions. Some girls in the group will seek you out later to apologise for the behaviour of her friend. Every group has a hierarchy and most of the girls on the lower ends will happily support you, to gain some measure of attention. And lets face it, its usually the common "beauties" that are at the top calling the shots. Use the jealousy that exists to your advantage..

Affable

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually prefer large/medium groups of girls to groups of two. Simply because you can play them off on each other. Not in any weird way, but rather if one girl is obviously being a princess or showing other crappy behaviour, you can usually get support from their friends. Call the princess on her behaviour in a fairly funny way, or act insulted by her actions. Some girls in the group will seek you out later to apologise for the behaviour of her friend. Every group has a hierarchy and most of the girls on the lower ends will happily support you, to gain some measure of attention. And lets face it, its usually the common "beauties" that are at the top calling the shots. Use the jealousy that exists to your advantage..

Women are the biggest bithces with their friends, and are controlling.

jayteecork

Remember in college my classmate was telling me he was up all night as his housemate came in from a night out and was balling crying as not one guy approached here.
She was crying all night apparently

NickNolte

jayteecork wrote: »

Remember in college my classmate was telling me he was up all night as his housemate came in from a night out and was balling crying as not one guy approached here.
She was crying all night apparently

Maybe she gave off the crackpot vibe when she was in the pub as well and guys were afraid of her.

Affable

Affable wrote: »

Women are the biggest bithces with their friends, and are controlling.

Women are the biggest bitches to their own friends, and most women will not pass up the opportunity to get their own form of revenge. Every group that has been together for a few weeks, will have its own history of annoyances, genuine grievances, and imagined slights. Most women I know remember everything that has been done to them to make them feel bad, seize any opportunity to make the queen bee take a step back. Its perfectly natural.

Affable

I was thinking more about this. Was out last night and saw some beauties.
It's emotional masochism. I most probably, subconsciously, take measures which make sure you never get a relationship. Because what's comfortable or 'easily' attainable is never as alluring as what's hard to attain. You constantly want this relationship wth chemistry and attraction and so you always cause yourself pain and alienate yourself because you lose interest in whats under your nose and get diverted, like addiction...I think many men are that way. Not that many women do come easy..but...it's the thrill of the new attraction, someone different, someone who may not think as much of you, someone mysterious, It extends to all relationships I guess-you want closeness but then push it away, because it's boring. Or something. Now I've confused myself, maybe someone can expand on it,

Affable

Affable wrote: »

I was thinking more about this. Was out last night and saw some beauties.
It's emotional masochism. I most probably, subconsciously, take measures which make sure you never get a relationship. Because what's comfortable or 'easily' attainable is never as alluring as what's hard to attain. You constantly want this relationship wth chemistry and attraction and so you always cause yourself pain and alienate yourself because you lose interest in whats under your nose and get diverted, like addiction...I think many men are that way. Not that many women do come easy..but...it's the thrill of the new attraction, someone different, someone who may not think as much of you, someone mysterious, It extends to all relationships I guess-you want closeness but then push it away, because it's boring. Or something. Now I've confused myself, maybe someone can expand on it,

I think you're on the right track. From the period of 17-30 I was mostly single. A few short encounters lasting a few weeks, but nothing major. The real reason for this was that whenever I met someone I was interested in, I felt it deeply during the "chase"/"flirt" but then once we had sex a few times I tended to lose interest. It was mostly that once sex happened a few times, we both would revert into "relationship" mode. It wasn't so exciting and new as before, and TBH I got bored. This is not to say I was mean or anything. I'm still friends with many of my ex's, and in many cases, it was the girls that initiated the separation, because they weren't getting what they wanted.

In my life I've met three women I wanted to stay longer than 5 months with... And from what I can gather, I'm not alone in this. Luckily that's changed now with my current partner, and I don't miss most of my previous life being "single & free".

turgon

This tendency to be on "the chase" also depends on the partner your with as well in my opinion, that is, the more preferable your current partner the more likely you are to not feel said tendencies. Also as Affable rightly pointed out, the less "fresh" a relationship the higher these tendencies get.

When I was secondary school I was in a really (far too) long relationship that wasn't good, and despite these tendencies to be single and other things I stayed in it for no good reason (status quo). As you grow older maybe they fade. I'm still young myself relative to ye, but I suppose (or at least I like to think) I'm mature for my age: I don't like going clubbing, getting drunk or these kind of things. I like having a quiet pint and talking about literature instead. Whatever makes you happy I suppose.

NickNolte

Some people just aren't "relationship" people. Many guys in their 20's aren't, that's for sure. But most grow up and mens and womens expectations tend to merge more as we get older.

BumbleB

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I have to agree...I was in Sligo recently and the amount of hot women...woah! They tend to be more outdoorsy and more active than us Dubs....and they were all absolutely sound as were the fellas. Great fun, very open and friendly. Not a stuck-up princess in sight! Genuinely, I'd love to know where the men who come across these so-called stuck up b*tches are socialising...not Cafe en Seine and bars of that ilk by any chance?

Krystal is the worse place for that .

I personally don't think Irish women are the worst at all .I think they are getting sexier .

I've been all around the world and believe you me Ireland is the best place to be. I like foreign girls . I had a few foreign girlfriends and I found that they are more whole some , more stronger family values . Girls from the countryside are like that too.


I think a lot of some of the posters here stuff comes from their inability to read or handle women.

As for groups ,any salesman will tell you that it is easier to sell to groups of people.

I cant really understand why this thread has gone on so long really .When youre out is to be able to suss out what girls might be interested in you and, I think on a regular w/e night most guys are either really drunk or clueless to figure this out so they end approaching girls that aren't in the slightest bit interested in them. A good way to view the world is to be able to switch viewpoint .

Now see it from her eyes most guys are generic, they like soccer, play sports, they pretty much wear the same clothes have the same viewpoints they pretty much say the same things to girls. I've even witnessed a hot girl yawning when a guy chatted her up.You have to get out of that mould.You cant be like everybody else.


There is a lot of nice really attractive girls out there . I was just talking to one just last night.

NickNolte

My mates are fairly charming, genuine and decent and they tend not to drink much. Certainly when we go out on the lash the odd time, they tend not to bother chatting up women. The argument that only drunk morons are treated in a bitchy manner doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

NickNolte

NickNolte wrote: »

Some people just aren't "relationship" people. Many guys in their 20's aren't, that's for sure. But most grow up and mens and womens expectations tend to merge more as we get older.

I used to think that also, but I think now its more about who you meet. Most women I met didn't satisfy my needs, just as I couldn't satisfy others needs. I'm 32, love traveling, and still love clubbing. I'm a book worm, and thoroughly enjoy a in-depth conversation on most subjects. I'm mature at times, and yet drastically the opposite at other times. Most women I knew couldn't figure out where to place me in their categories, and that caused friction. Finally I met someone who could accept me as I am, rather than what they wanted me to be.

The issue is with regards to who you meet, and the sacrifices you're willing to make to be with that person. Its impossible to keep all that you are in a relationship. Every serious relationship will change the people involved.

I think some people just don't like other people, and want to just have some shallow contact, while keeping to themselves. That's fine. I felt the same way once, but changed as time went by. Others don't. But I feel that its mostly because they haven't met the right partner for them. God, I've turned into a romantic. lol

In regards to approaching, if you want to get that sort of relationship, you will need to make approaches. Constantly. Until that moment comes when you know you have met the right person. It might be early in your life, or later, or it might not happen at all. But we, as men, have to make the first move (in most cases, unless an external entity hooks you up).

NickNolte

Deleted User wrote: »

But we, as men, have to make the first move

I disagree. That's like saying women have to stay at home, mind the house and look after the kids.

The days where the men did all the chasing are slowly starting to dwindle away as traditional roles are becoming obsolete. Certainly the 'good' men with a bit of pride and self-respect are doing less and less chatting up these days. The assertion of this thread that 'men don't chat up women' or that the only ones that do are pissed-up idiots certainly seems to give credence to my claim.

Affable

NickNolte wrote: »

Some people just aren't "relationship" people. Many guys in their 20's aren't, that's for sure. But most grow up and mens and womens expectations tend to merge more as we get older.

I flit between other obsessions and things I want to do, but it does seem a tragic waste of ones sexual peak, all those interesting and attractive and diverse women, and to no avail because you never make the connection.
Like I say, I guess it is emotional masochism but as you get older you regret it more. Grass always greener.

Loula

Deleted User wrote: »

In regards to approaching, if you want to get that sort of relationship, you will need to make approaches. Constantly.

But we, as men, have to make the first move (in most cases, unless an external entity hooks you up).

Jeees Klaz you make the prospect of finding someone sound like a cross between stalking and really hard work!!
I have to disagree with your idea that men have to make the first move, that kind of attitude is too archaic. Whatever happened to jst finding someone?!

turgon

Affable wrote: »

Grass always greener.

At the end of the day it usually comes down to this. Best keep your mind on what you have and keep your bushes well trimmed :eek:

Affable

turgon wrote: »

At the end of the day it usually comes down to this. Best keep your mind on what you have and keep your bushes well trimmed :eek:

Generally I'd say being a bit of a twat does work with some women. I'm not badly off for looks, so I'm told, but something else hinders things, and it's maybe just lack of skill. but I can't help feeling there is a waste going on.

and of course, when you got more going on with the other sex, you feel more inspired, and the rest of life comes together, work etc.
but if you do less well career wise, then girls get harder to get etc....web of interdependence and vicious cycle.

Affable

NickNolte wrote: »

Some people just aren't "relationship" people. Many guys in their 20's aren't, that's for sure. But most grow up and mens and womens expectations tend to merge more as we get older.

Yeah, then it's already boring 'if you don't have kids your an outcast' time, involving lots of changing nappies, boredom, job you hate, routine, and sexual frustration again. :o

turgon

Affable wrote: »

Generally I'd say being a bit of a twat does work with some women.

Not so much being a twat id say, but certainly being extremely confident and even cocky. A lot of girls (my age maybe) want guys that dont give a ****, and even mess them around a bit. They are then opposed to "nice" guys. They want a bit of excitement I presume. A bit of drama.

Loula

Loula wrote: »

Jeees Klaz you make the prospect of finding someone sound like a cross between stalking and really hard work!!
I have to disagree with your idea that men have to make the first move, that kind of attitude is too archaic. Whatever happened to jst finding someone?!

Just finding someone is easy... I don't want to suggest that it isn't. Just walk out your front door, and approach the first attractive woman you see. There you go.

I was replying to the older relationship and that many people aren't relationship people, which I disagree with. As for stalking, I can't see anything in my post which comes close to that...

Affable

Deleted User wrote: »

Just finding someone is easy... I don't want to suggest that it isn't. Just walk out your front door, and approach the first attractive woman you see. There you go.
...

I agree but it going beyond that is not easy.

NickNolte

NickNolte wrote: »

I disagree. That's like saying women have to stay at home, mind the house and look after the kids.

The days where the men did all the chasing are slowly starting to dwindle away as traditional roles are becoming obsolete. Certainly the 'good' men with a bit of pride and self-respect are doing less and less chatting up these days. The assertion of this thread that 'men don't chat up women' or that the only ones that do are pissed-up idiots certainly seems to give credence to my claim.

Huh? So you're telling me that in pubs & clubs the majority of women you meet comes as result of them approaching you? Perhaps also include the street, supermarkets, shops etc.. Women approach you there also? Interesting.. Cause I've seen precious little of that happen to myself or to any of my friends.

Sure, there are some networking between friends.. but actual approaching in clubs/pubs? Most times it will be the guy making the first moves.

Guys are still approaching women despite what the title claims. Whether they're drunk or sober, doesn't really matter. Its still men, for the most part, who are doing so.

Affable

Affable wrote: »

I agree but it going beyond that is not easy.

Which was my point... :pac:

MIN2511

So yesterday a group of friends and i were talking about this topic.
And we analysed our parents, many of us don't believe our parents loved each other when they married. We believe they grew to love each other after accepting their situations.
The younger generation is more interested in love, attraction and compatability etc
The older generation are more interested in stability(financially & emotionally).
eg: our parents may not divorce if one of them is unfaithful. We on the other hand are likely to seperate....
We have changed and our expectations are much higher.
Majority of us have been either hurt or rejected, which affects our confidence when we meet someone new.

orangetictac

turgon wrote: »

I'm still young myself relative to ye, but I suppose (or at least I like to think) I'm mature for my age: I don't like going clubbing, getting drunk or these kind of things. I like having a quiet pint and talking about literature instead. Whatever makes you happy I suppose.

Mature is the wrong word imo.
Even "mature" people like to boogie in the discotheque!:pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGuFn0RPgaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmZ08V4GFQg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVuMIB2hC0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C2b8XWJnfE

Groove is in the heart turgon

I should mention I am not a fan of low low low low low low low low but it seems to get the hip kids jivin'

MIN2511

MIN2511 wrote: »

So yesterday a group of friends and i were talking about this topic.
And we analysed our parents, many of us don't believe our parents loved each other when they married. We believe they grew to love each other after accepting their situations.
The younger generation is more interested in love, attraction and compatability etc
The older generation are more interested in stability(financially & emotionally).
eg: our parents may not divorce if one of them is unfaithful. We on the other hand are likely to seperate....
We have changed and our expectations are much higher.
Majority of us have been either hurt or rejected, which affects our confidence when we meet someone new.

I think it comes down more to the availability/acceptance of sex before marriage. My own parents never had sex with anyone before they married. So they became friends before becoming lovers. While sex outside marriage was more common in other countries in the 60's, in Ireland it wasn't so common. So couples learned about each other before having sex, especially considering that contraception wasn't so widely available (apart from the timing kind, which isn't exactly reliable), and the social stigma against out of wedlock children.

Personally I think we all lose something special, like an innocence, when we have sex with our partners for the first time. Don't get me wrong. It can be an amazing experience, but sex opens up new chapters in a relationship, that could be left till later.

turgon

orangetictac wrote: »

Groove is in the heart turgon

Sorry those videos wouldnt play. They failed to pass my inbuilt computer dignity meter.

seahorse

Deleted User wrote: »

While sex outside marriage was more common in other countries in the 60's, in Ireland it wasn't so common.

Sorry Klaz but that's a piece of fiction you're repeating there. There was plenty of sex outside marriage in Ireland all throughout the last century; no shortage of it at all. That's how the Magdalene sisters filled their laundries and how the term 'shotgun wedding' was coined.

seahorse

seahorse wrote: »

Sorry Klaz but that's a piece of fiction you're repeating there. There was plenty of sex outside marriage in Ireland all throughout the last century; no shortage of it at all. That's how the Magdalene sisters filled their laundries and how the term 'shotgun wedding' was coined.

Great you're pointing out a few cases compared to the entire population of the country... I'm not suggesting that sex out of marriage didn't happen. Nobody is that naive. Let me put it this way, in the mid 90's I was living in Mullingar, and they were going through a baby boom. A lot Young single mothers.. Would it have been such an issue if it had been occurring ten or twenty years ago in such numbers as you suggest by the above?

seahorse

Deleted User wrote: »

Great you're pointing out a few cases compared to the entire population of the country... I'm not suggesting that sex out of marriage didn't happen. Nobody is that naive. Let me put it this way, in the mid 90's I was living in Mullingar, and they were going through a baby boom. A lot Young single mothers.. Would it have been such an issue if it had been occurring ten or twenty years ago in such numbers as you suggest by the above?

There was nothing 'few' about it Klaz. Many of the marriages of the era you're referring to came about in the first place because the bride was up the pole. There was no lack of teenaged pregnancy in the last century in Ireland. There was no shortage of teenaged girls pushing prams back then; only difference was many of them had rings on their fingers because the influence of the church meant the blokes involved were often frog-marched up the middle-aisle, hence my reference to 'shot-gun weddings'.

You should probably spend some time talking to people in their elderly years about what went on in this country in the middle of the last century. I have done and it's an eye-opener, I can tell you.

seahorse

seahorse wrote: »

There was nothing 'few' about it Klaz. Many of the marriages of the era you're referring to came about in the first place because the bride was up the pole. There was no lack of teenaged pregnancy in the last century in Ireland. There was no shortage of teenaged girls pushing prams back then; only difference was many of them had rings on their fingers because the influence of the church meant the blokes involved were often frog-marched up the middle-aisle, hence my reference to 'shot-gun weddings'.

You should probably spend some time talking to people in their elderly years about what went on in this country in the middle of the last century. I have done and it's an eye-opener, I can tell you.

Seahorse, I have done so previously. Perhaps its different where you are from, but from talks with my parents, and their friends, most of them were virgins when they married. A few had had sex with one partner prior to marriage, but they were a minority.

seahorse

Deleted User wrote: »

Seahorse, I have done so previously. Perhaps its different where you are from, but from talks with my parents, and their friends, most of them were virgins when they married. A few had had sex with one partner prior to marriage, but they were a minority.

Well, since entire industries were supported all over the island by the slave labour of young women whose 'crime' was not being virginal, I just couldn’t agree that it was highly unusual for a woman to lose her virginity before marriage. It was certainly socially unacceptable, we all know that; but that doesn’t mean people didn’t do it, it just means they didn’t advertise it. (Not referring to your family here!)

I'm sure the influence of the church, social and familial pressures influenced other women also. An elderly female relative of mine told me that she was a virgin till she married for the simple reason that if you'd have gone home to her father and told her you were pregnant you might as well fling yourself off Nelson's Pillar.

Adoption wasn’t legalised in this country until 1962 so there is no accurate documentary record of how many 'illegitimate' children were given to friends and relations to raise in the earlier half of the last century. I can tell you Dublin was flooded with young country girls in the later stages of their pregnancies and their babies were usually raised by childless Dublin couples: Unless, God help them, they ended up in the likes of Goldenbridge, which many did for the 'crime' of having been born out of wedlock.

I think the situation you mentioned earlier (certain areas being full of single mothers) has actually come about by way of overcompensation for the disgraceful way young pregnant women were treated for the larger part of the last century. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

ok. agree to disagree.