Why don't men approach women?

BumbleB

irish_bob wrote: »

if your insecure at 25 , then you are going to be insecure at 45 or even 65 , after people hit thier early to mid 20,s,.whatever personality they have at that stage , stays with them , its formed and it cant really be changed , i dont mean in terms of someone being an alcoholic or engaging in criminal behaviour , i mean in terms of confidence , self esteem issues , how they view themselves , im 30 and i was a much different person at 20 but then something happend to me at 21 , ive been the exact same more or less for the last 9 years and will always be like this now

Whats true for you may not be true for other people.

Wibbs

I would agree with BumbleB and add that you too can change. Most don't change simply because they don't have to or don't want to. The latter is by far the bigger influence. Of those I know that have changed, they worked at it. Hard. They did change though. Shyness and social awkwardness was the one where I've seen the biggest change in people, men and women. Yes it would be easier in say a 20 year old than a 30 year old, because a 20 year old is more likely to be surrounded by others still finding their feet so some leeway is given. Plus the peer pressure of conformity and knocking off of edges is running strong at that age. Still it's doable later on and trust me your peers that appear to have it together? Many of them may be hiding more than you realise. I've seen a guy turn his life and attitudes around at the age of 43. Now at 46 you would barely recognise his life compared to a few years previously.

Ok thought experiment. Lets say I wiped your memory of being 21 in the morning.. Chances are good that you would be a different person. More than good. You would be a different person. Experiences may inform us and indeed should, but those experiences don't have to define us, especially if they are negative or unhealthy experiences. Yes, easy to say and hard to do, but still doable. Nothing is written in stone except your gravestone.

BumbleB

Wibbs wrote: »

I would agree with BumbleB and add that you too can change. Most don't change simply because they don't have to or don't want to. The latter is by far the bigger influence. Of those I know that have changed, they worked at it. Hard. They did change though. Shyness and social awkwardness was the one where I've seen the biggest change in people, men and women. Yes it would be easier in say a 20 year old than a 30 year old, because a 20 year old is more likely to be surrounded by others still finding their feet so some leeway is given. Plus the peer pressure of conformity and knocking off of edges is running strong at that age. Still it's doable later on and trust me your peers that appear to have it together? Many of them may be hiding more than you realise. I've seen a guy turn his life and attitudes around at the age of 43. Now at 46 you would barely recognise his life compared to a few years previously.

Ok thought experiment. Lets say I wiped your memory of being 21 in the morning.. Chances are good that you would be a different person. More than good. You would be a different person. Experiences may inform us and indeed should, but those experiences don't have to define us, especially if they are negative or unhealthy experiences. Yes, easy to say and hard to do, but still doable. Nothing is written in stone except your gravestone.

Change is very simple ,win the lotto .:)

Agent J

irish_bob wrote: »

if your insecure at 25 , then you are going to be insecure at 45 or even 65 , after people hit thier early to mid 20,s,.whatever personality they have at that stage , stays with them , its formed and it cant really be changed , i dont mean in terms of someone being an alcoholic or engaging in criminal behaviour , i mean in terms of confidence , self esteem issues , how they view themselves , im 30 and i was a much different person at 20 but then something happend to me at 21 , ive been the exact same more or less for the last 9 years and will always be like this now

If you think you will always be like that then you will always be like that.

A person can change if they try but it has to be their choice.
Problem is change is hard, takes time,effort and dedication but it can be done.

Wagon

Here's why nobody approaches women!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055573143

Normally i wouldn't link to PI but i think this deservers a mention.

97i9y3941

that defo hit the nail on the head,no wonder coundnt be arsed with attiudes like that!

JimmyCrackCorn!

I cant say i haven't been on the receiving end of that kind of attitude.

I wonder when it became ok to feel superior to everyone else:(

Fiend-Foe

Anybody else ever been rejected by a girl without even putting a move on them??

I'm in a relationship so wouldn't be looking to pick up anyone but this has happened me several times.

You just talk to/say something to a girl who thinks she's the business and out of your league and you get the cold shoulder or told she'd not interested!!

Not interested in what??

I wasn't offering anything you stuck up b1tch get over yourself. Not everybody wants you, I know I sure don't.

veryangryman

Fiend-Foe wrote: »

Anybody else ever been rejected by a girl without even putting a move on them??

I'm in a relationship so wouldn't be looking to pick up anyone but this has happened me several times.

You just talk to/say something to a girl who thinks she's the business and out of your league and you get the cold shoulder or told she'd not interested!!

Not interested in what??

I wasn't offering anything you stuck up b1tch get over yourself. Not everybody wants you, I know I sure don't.

My opinion? I'd actually side with the girl on this.

As Joey tells Ross in Friends. "Do men talk to strange women for no particular reason? No, just for sex"

In summary, an agenda existed, and while you have that dangly thing between your legs, i shall fail to be convinced otherwise.

Im sure she was indeed stuck up and presumptuous, but refer to my dangly thing reference.

Marko_Man

Why cant women approach the men ?

veryangryman

Marko_Man wrote: »

Why cant women approach the men ?

Thats lazy talk. Get with the program.

Fiend-Foe

veryangryman wrote: »

My opinion? I'd actually side with the girl on this.

As Joey tells Ross in Friends. "Do men talk to strange women for no particular reason? No, just for sex"

In summary, an agenda existed, and while you have that dangly thing between your legs, i shall fail to be convinced otherwise.

Im sure she was indeed stuck up and presumptuous, but refer to my dangly thing reference.

Thats absolute bullsh1t imo.

Joey was the very simple one wasn't he? Bit of a dope if I remember correctly.

Are you seriously suggesting that all men are incapable of having a conversation with an attractive woman without wanting something more?

Because if you are, you're very wrong!

And it says a lot about the kind of guy you are if you can't get past someones looks and sexuality and just talk to them.

veryangryman

Fiend-Foe wrote: »

Thats absolute bullsh1t imo.

Joey was the very simple one wasn't he? Bit of a dope if I remember correctly.

Are you seriously suggesting that all men are incapable of having a conversation with an attractive woman without wanting something more?

Because if you are, you're very wrong!

And it says a lot about the kind of guy you are if you can't get past someones looks and sexuality and just talk to them.

Again, refer to my dangly thing reference.

I can guarantee that

a) This girl was good looking
b) Your missus was not around
c) You would not have done it if she was within eyeshot
d) You would not have gone up to "just talk" if the girl was a minger

But mostly, refer to the dangly thing reference. You talk a good game mate, but in actual fact, your the worse type there is - the subtle type. You'll pretend to be all prim and proper and judging other guys, but when it all comes down to it, your twice as shallow. Just good at hiding it and good luck to you for that.

Fiend-Foe

veryangryman wrote: »

Again, refer to my dangly thing reference.

I can guarantee that

a) This girl was good looking
b) Your missus was not around
c) You would not have done it if she was within eyeshot
d) You would not have gone up to "just talk" if the girl was a minger

But mostly, refer to the dangly thing reference. You talk a good game mate, but in actual fact, your the worse type there is - the subtle type. You'll pretend to be all prim and proper and judging other guys, but when it all comes down to it, your twice as shallow. Just good at hiding it and good luck to you for that.

a) Probably, but so are lots of people. I talk to ugly people too from day to day.
b) It has happened when she was around, at party's, in a bar/club.
c) I have done. (Are you suggesting I don't talk to people when I'm with my GF? That would be strange)
d) Sure I do. I talk to all sorts of people. "mingers" included.

Ha ha. Prim and proper. Right. And I'm very far from subtle.

I'll have a chat with anybody who is around me, like in a smoking section or something, if I'm just having some banter I don't care if they are male or female, good looking or a "minger", I'll just talk to whoever's around me.

EDIT: And I wasn't judging any other guys, no way I do that. But I think anybody who is incapable of talking to a good looking girl without thinking about boning her must be a bit of a dope.

Marko_Man

veryangryman wrote: »

Thats lazy talk. Get with the program.

What do you mean get with the program ?

You are a Very angry man, fool.

NickNolte

veryangryman wrote: »

My opinion? I'd actually side with the girl on this.

As Joey tells Ross in Friends. "Do men talk to strange women for no particular reason? No, just for sex"

In summary, an agenda existed, and while you have that dangly thing between your legs, i shall fail to be convinced otherwise.

Im sure she was indeed stuck up and presumptuous, but refer to my dangly thing reference.

Misandry? Although your username is 'veryangryman' so I can only assume you're male. If so, then maybe you should consider that we're not all twisted perverts like your good self. Do all men want sex? I think it's safe to presume so. Are they all only after one thing? Eh... no.

Honestly, sexual repression and expression is still in the dark ages in this fvcking country. Women treating all men like potential rapists. Men afraid to approach women for the same reason. This shíthole backwater really hasn't moved on at all.

97i9y3941

the men that coundnt keep it in their pants are ones that end up having kids they dont want,guess its gods way of teaching them a lesson

veryangryman

NickNolte wrote: »

Misandry? Although your username is 'veryangryman' so I can only assume you're male. If so, then maybe you should consider that we're not all twisted perverts like your good self. Do all men want sex? I think it's safe to presume so. Are they all only after one thing? Eh... no.

Honestly, sexual repression and expression is still in the dark ages in this fvcking country. Women treating all men like potential rapists. Men afraid to approach women for the same reason. This shíthole backwater really hasn't moved on at all.

I believe that Joey (and his colleagues in Friends) are American? Dont pin this on the irish.

The only thing wrong with this country is that some of us :rolleyes: think that the grass is greener elsewhere. Its not. I've checked.

Fiend-Foe

veryangryman wrote: »

I believe that Joey (and his colleagues in Friends) are American? Dont pin this on the irish.

The only thing wrong with this country is that some of us :rolleyes: think that the grass is greener elsewhere. Its not. I've checked.

Are you really using friends as your guide to social interaction?

veryangryman

Nope. But the show was very popular. Im assuming because people could relate to for example, the theme music, behaviours etc.

Was reflective of 90s/2000s youth culture. With a few bad gags thrown in as filler for the final 4-5 years of the show.

But im not here to discuss the merits of that show. Im just saying that men are men anywhere you go. Just because you dont say it/act on it doesnt mean you dont think it. Again, some are better at covering it up than others.

Either way its no reason to diss Ireland. If its such an awful place with such "twisted perverts", then by all means move elsewhere.

NickNolte

veryangryman wrote: »

I believe that Joey (and his colleagues in Friends) are American? Dont pin this on the irish.

I don't take my life lessons from fantastical American sitcoms.

veryangryman wrote: »

The only thing wrong with this country is that some of us :rolleyes: think that the grass is greener elsewhere. Its not. I've checked.

I disagree. Your original point was that the only reason a man would chat up a woman is to achieve a short term sexual conquest. This is bullshít although you're right, most Irish women will treat you like this if you were to approach them. Foreign women are much more approachable and don't treat you like a drunken, leary potential rapist when you try and chat them up... unless of course you actually are one.

NickNolte

veryangryman wrote: »

If its such an awful place with such "twisted perverts", then by all means move elsewhere.

What the hell are you talking about? That was your assertion. Confused, are we?

pinkfeather

NickNolte wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about? That was your assertion. Confused, are we?

HIS assertion? Ermmm no. Sigh...:rolleyes: Do we have to directly quote you to explain what he was talking about...

NickNolte wrote: »

Honestly, sexual repression and expression is still in the dark ages in this fvcking country. Women treating all men like potential rapists. Men afraid to approach women for the same reason. This shíthole backwater really hasn't moved on at all.

NickNolte

pinkfeather wrote: »

HIS assertion? Ermmm no. Sigh...:rolleyes: Do we have to directly quote you to explain what he was talking about...

Read his post before that :rolleyes:

BumbleB

Agent J wrote: »

If you think you will always be like that then you will always be like that.

A person can change if they try but it has to be their choice.
Problem is change is hard, takes time,effort and dedication but it can be done.

Thats only your limiting belief that is your belief system ,mine is totally different to yours and everybody else.

You believe that these things are unattainable and so they are for you the thinker thinks what the prover proves.

This isn't a dig at you by the way .I'm just trying to highlight something which you may not be aware of

.I watched a friend of mine change from a wallflower to the life and soul in 2 months now he hosts events all over the country.

scanlas

The bad guy, the good guy or the nice guy. Allow Kezia to enlighten you on this youtube clip. She explains women's attraction for them. This could help you approach women.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY3yC4Z8sqE

NickNolte

scanlas wrote: »

The bad guy, the good guy or the nice guy. Allow Kezia to enlighten you on this youtube clip. She explains women's attraction for them. This could help you approach women.

Most guys I know fit into each of these three stereotypes to varying degrees. I'm not sure what that says for the lady in the video's "quick fix" theories. Of course a lot of guys would perfectly fit one of these three moulds, but the vast majority of blokes are considerably more complex.

Most of the guys that would more closely suit the 'good guy' stereotype are likely to avoid any kind of woman that buys into this kind of retarded nonsense, to be honest. Most 'good guys' want genuinely intelligent women.

Instead of pigeonholing and judging men, women should be their own person and not expect a quick explanation like the one in that silly video. If girls watch crap like that and expect men to act accordingly, they're going to end up very confused.

BumbleB

NickNolte wrote: »

Most guys I know fit into each of these three stereotypes to varying degrees. I'm not sure what that says for the lady in the video's "quick fix" theories. Of course a lot of guys would perfectly fit one of these three moulds, but the vast majority of blokes are considerably more complex.

Most of the guys that would more closely suit the 'good guy' stereotype are likely to avoid any kind of woman that buys into this kind of retarded nonsense, to be honest. Most 'good guys' want genuinely intelligent women.

Instead of pigeonholing and judging men, women should be their own person and not expect a quick explanation like the one in that silly video. If girls watch crap like that and expect men to act accordingly, they're going to end up very confused.

I agree 100% with nick that video is pure bull .She doesn't have a clue ,all she is doing is reiterating the crap she listens to at pua seminars giving by Yanks and judging by what i've seen first hand are rubbish with women ,she is pretty fit though check out her myspace pics.

All that pua s**t is aimed at making people think they need it ,just like the american army after the vietnam war had billions of dollars of anti perspirant left over that they had no way of getting rid of .So they came up with a genius idea of targetting women as their market.

Be a good guy and get the babes . yeah right ......................its a little bit more complex than that.

scanlas

BumbleB wrote: »

I agree 100% with nick that video is pure bull .She doesn't have a clue ,all she is doing is reiterating the crap she listens to at pua seminars giving by Yanks and judging by what i've seen first hand are rubbish with women ,she is pretty fit though check out her myspace pics.

All that pua s**t is aimed at making people think they need it ,just like the american army after the vietnam war had billions of dollars of anti perspirant left over that they had no way of getting rid of .So they came up with a genius idea of targetting women as their market.

Be a good guy and get the babes . yeah right ......................its a little bit more complex than that.

She actually works for an English company called puatraing which offers seminars and bootcamps.Check out their blog, their's some great adivce there for life and pulling women. Her advice of being yourself and not putting on a mask of a persona to please others seems to be decent advice. I don't see how you can disagree with that. Her advice of not doing everything a woman says or agreeing with everything she says is some more solid advice that is hard to disagree with.

She doen't say at anytime in the clip that the process of becoming good at pulling women is easy. It's not, it takes a few thousand of approaches on average or six months to a year if you are dedicated and persistent. The learning curve can be compared to learning a musical instrument. It's not easy.

If you can approach an attractive woman on the street, in a shopping centre, bar, library etc your standart of life is better, they don't say you need it.

NickNolte

scanlas wrote: »

Her advice of being yourself and not putting on a mask of a persona to please others seems to be decent advice. I don't see how you can disagree with that. Her advice of not doing everything a woman says or agreeing with everything she says is some more solid advice that is hard to disagree with.

Absolutely. It is good advice. If you're an insecure or shy man who can't talk to women or a doormat who doesn't know how to function in an adult relationship then there's probably no harm in taking a few life lessons. It works both ways though. There should be a video up there for the kind of women who go for 'bad' guys (arseholes).

scanlas

NickNolte wrote: »

Absolutely. It is good advice. If you're an insecure or shy man who can't talk to women or a doormat who doesn't know how to function in an adult relationship then there's probably no harm in taking a few life lessons. It works both ways though. There should be a video up there for the kind of women who go for 'bad' guys (arseholes).

Do you mean a video for women on how not to want an arsehole or a video on how to pull women who want arsholes?


Women love being tempting, alluring, seductive. Women love to be chased, luring you with their beauty. Women love communicating in ways that we can't understand. They love being the vixen, they love being the seducer, they love being the temptress...Bait is implemented by women and is where most men are complete wimps for not manning up and taking the bait and approaching the women.

Women love being taken, dominated, led, made to feel like a woman...this is why it can be attractive in itself for a man to approach a woman. But really this is how attraction works. It is the male female dynamic, the female attracts and the man carries out the dominant action and approaches. Seducition just like attraction has a man's role and a woman's role.

Women love being the ground, the stability, the mother, the nurturer, the earth. Once the roles of seduction are established they find a home with this identity. So that can mean a relationship, but also it can mean if a woman chooses to be sexually free and adventurous, then she needs to have stability within this.Women love the tranformation. They love the idea and act of putting on their make up and turning into something beautiful for the night, but they love to take that make up off and put that identity away to come back for another time. This is because they are the ground. You may then be able to see how the idea of being discrete or keeping a secret can help you in your interactions with women.

HappyGirl1976

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I used to never ever approach women in pubs/clubs cos I never ever had the confidence and always feared that I'd:

1. get knocked back in front of my friends

2. realise that I had nothing to say and fumble over my words, making a fool of myself

3. try to chat up the girl in the group who has a boyfriend

4. come across really boring

5. not be good looking enough (i.e. try to bat out of my league)

So there ya go... There's 5 reasons off the top of my head........

To be honest, women are often just as insecure as you are feeling... and worried that they will fumble over their words, not be good looking enough, come across as boring/stupid/bitchy... and as long as you realize that - you are good to go. I'm glad you decided to push past all that and just go chat with the girls. You'll never know who you might have met if you don't try, right?? And you could surprise yourself, someone you might have though as "out of your league" could be thinking the same thing about you:P

NickNolte

scanlas wrote: »

Do you mean a video for women on how not to want an arsehole or a video on how to pull women who want arsholes?


Women love being tempting, alluring, seductive. Women love to be chased, luring you with their beauty. Women love communicating in ways that we can't understand. They love being the vixen, they love being the seducer, they love being the temptress...Bait is implemented by women and is where most men are complete wimps for not manning up and taking the bait and approaching the women.

Women love being taken, dominated, led, made to feel like a woman...this is why it can be attractive in itself for a man to approach a woman. But really this is how attraction works. It is the male female dynamic, the female attracts and the man carries out the dominant action and approaches. Seducition just like attraction has a man's role and a woman's role.

Women love being the ground, the stability, the mother, the nurturer, the earth. Once the roles of seduction are established they find a home with this identity. So that can mean a relationship, but also it can mean if a woman chooses to be sexually free and adventurous, then she needs to have stability within this.Women love the tranformation. They love the idea and act of putting on their make up and turning into something beautiful for the night, but they love to take that make up off and put that identity away to come back for another time. This is because they are the ground. You may then be able to see how the idea of being discrete or keeping a secret can help you in your interactions with women.

Welcome to the age of gender equality.

scanlas

NickNolte wrote: »

Welcome to the age of gender equality.

Welcome to the real world and how things are in reality.There is absolutely nothing in my above post which suggests women aren't or shouldn't be treated as equals. Equal in the context of gender doesn't mean the same. It means no better or worse. Males and females are different, but no better or worse, they compliment each other. Each has strenghts and weaknesses. The natural dynamic is for men to approach women more often than women approach men, that doesn't mean there is anything wrong for women to approach a man.

NickNolte

scanlas wrote: »

Welcome to the real world and how things are in reality.

Times and traditional gender roles change unfortunately. They have changed. Your 'reality' isn't applicable anymore unfortunately. It's why you have an unprecidented number of single women in their mid-late 30's who, for most intents and purposes, are perfectly eligible. Call it a post-feminist gender stand-off if you will.

scanlas wrote: »

Women love being tempting, alluring, seductive. Women love to be chased, luring you with their beauty. Women love communicating in ways that we can't understand. They love being the vixen, they love being the seducer, they love being the temptress...Bait is implemented by women and is where most men are complete wimps for not manning up and taking the bait and approaching the women.

= Women are cowards who are afraid of approaching men and risking rejection. Men should be the ones to do all the hard work and face the knock backs.

Let's call a spade a spade.

scanlas

NickNolte wrote: »

Times and traditional gender roles change unfortunately. They have changed. Your 'reality' isn't applicable anymore unfortunately. It's why you have an unprecidented number of single women in their mid-late 30's who, for most intents and purposes, are perfectly eligible. Call it a post-feminist gender stand-off if you will.



= Women are cowards who are afraid of approaching men and risking rejection. Men should be the ones to do all the hard work and face the knock backs.

Let's call a spade a spade.

Your assuming you know my reality, which you don't.

Neither gender should have to do anything, I'm talking about the way things are and why they are that way.

Men approach women more often because it is in their nature to be dominant, decisive and take action. When a man possesses these qualities he will be more fulfilled. A woman will be more fulfilled when she is nurturing and making sure her friends/family are healthy and happy. That's why women tend to do these things more than men, because there is more of a reward to doing those things. Women also naturally enjoy being the temptress and baiting men to approach. There is a greater reward for men in being decisive and taking action, it feels good. Im not saying it doesn't feel good for a woman, but the reward is greater for a man.

I want to make the point clear that I don't think men and women should have to do any particular tasks, they should both have choice.But there are tasks which are more rewarding on an emotional level for men and women, that's why one gender tends to do some tasks more than the other. That is reality.

NickNolte

I'd have to disagree. It sounds like airy fairy nonsense to me. By the same logic you could argue that the man should remain the hunter gatherer and the women should stay at home and look after the house and kids. Whether you like it or not, gender equality is about equality on every level. Not just in the respects that suit women. It'll be a frustrating one for women to adjust to ("Why can't I meet a genuine guy?", "Why are all the guys that chat me up drunken bufoons?", "Why won't he approach me, I've been giving off vague, subtle signals all night?", etc)

That's the reality of it. You can certainly see evidence of it on boards.ie. Anyway, it's just my observation. We'll agree to disagree... although I do appreciate the point you're making.

scanlas

I never said a woman shouldn't approach, if I were a woman looking to meet men and only drunken fools were approaching me then I'd approach men.I'm all for people doing whatever they want, my point is different task, actions etc have different rewards for males and females, that's why some are done more by one gender.

We can all choose to chase cats if we so wish, but the reward isn't there for most. For a dog however, there is an emotional reward. So you see more dogs chasing cats than humans.

NickNolte

scanlas wrote: »

I never said a woman shouldn't approach, if I were a woman looking to meet men and only drunken fools were approaching me then I'd approach men.I'm all for people doing whatever they want, my point is different task, actions etc have different rewards for males and females, that's why some are done more by one gender.

We can all choose to chase cats if we so wish, but the reward isn't there for most. For a dog however, there is an emotional reward. So you see more dogs chasing cats than humans.

You seem to be insinuating that men need women more than women need men. There's more of a 'reward' for men? Again, I'd have to disagree. The general rule of thumb is that, for women, it's a buyers market when you're in your 20's but the dynamic changes in your 30's.

scanlas

NickNolte wrote: »

You seem to be insinuating that men need women more than women need men. There's more of a 'reward' for men? Again, I'd have to disagree. The general rule of thumb is that, for women, it's a buyers market when you're in your 20's but the dynamic changes in your 30's.

When I refer to reward I'm not talking about the reward of pulling a woman/man. I'm talking about the reward of taking action. It's very fulfilling for a man to take action and be responsible for himself. Approaching a woman is a reward in itself whether it goes well or not. You are self reliant, the buck stops with you.

Unfortunately alot of men are not in touch with there masculinity, remaining passive, worrying what people think and reactive to other people. That's why so many men are depressed or unhappy. They aren't living in alignment with with what they are. If more men were in alignment with their natural masculine characteristics it would benefit both men and women. It's no one's fault really, it's the way things just turned out. I reckon school has a lot to do with men losing their naturally attractive masculine traits. At a young age boys act in a natural masculine way, doing and saying what they want and going after what they want not caring what people think. These behavours are punished in school which suppresses your natural masculine self, you are conditioned to think it's wrong to behave in a dominant way, and therein the seed of a life of unhappiness is planted. I'm not saying school should let boys run riot in school, that would be completely inpractical, neither am I saying men should act like 5 year old boys, I'm saying somewhere along the way a lot of men suppressed their naturally attractive traits. It's just an unfortunate situation.

Chatting up women is one area of a man's life where a man's loss of his naturally attractive masculine traits really shows. It's why I find it so interesting

It is the one situation where no one tells you what to do, there is no right and wrong for you laid out in black and white. You have to think for yourself, you have to talk about whatever you want to, you have to take risks, there is no guarantee it will go well. What one woman says you should do another disagress. For a man who looks to the outside world for approval this is a traumatic experience. The socially conditioned man is used to knowing what to do to get approval, ie pass your exams, get a job, obey the law, be polite etc. The rules are there in black and white, he knows what he has to do for approval. But when chatting up a woman you aren't guaranteed approval no matter what you do. There is no set procedure laid out in black and white. If you somehow managed to keep your naturally attractive traits chatting up a woman is an oppurtunity to express yourself, it's fulfilling, it feels good, you give yourself your approval, whatever you decide to do or say is right because you say it is. You make your own rules. If you say something and the girl gives you a weird look it doesn't bother you, you approve yourself. For the socially conditioned man a woman giving you a weird look makes you feel bad, your self worth is tied up in what other people think. So the socially conditioned man drinks and drinks until he can approach, because approaching a woman for him is scary and a big deal.

NickNolte

scanlas wrote: »

When I refer to reward I'm not talking about the reward of pulling a woman/man. I'm talking about the reward of taking action. It's very fulfilling for a man to take action and be responsible for himself. Approaching a woman is a reward in itself whether it goes well or not. You are self reliant, the buck stops with you.

Unfortunately alot of men are not in touch with there masculinity, remaining passive, worrying what people think and reactive to other people. That's why so many men are depressed or unhappy. They aren't living in alignment with with what they are. If more men were in alignment with their natural masculine characteristics it would benefit both men and women. It's no one's fault really, it's the way things just turned out. I reckon school has a lot to do with men losing. At a young age boys act in a natural masculine way, doing and saying what they want and going after what they want not caring what people think. These behavours are punished in school which suppresses your natural masculine self, you are conditioned to think it's wrong to behave in a dominant way, and therein the seed of a life of unhappiness is planted. I'm not saying school should let boys run riot in school, that would be completely inpractical. It's just an unfortunate situation.

Utter psychobabble nonsense, straight from a textbook.

scanlas

Please tell me about the text book your refering to, I'd like to read it.

HappyGirl1976

I see all the debates about who should approach whom... or who is more rewarded. My question is this (as I'm curious): if a woman were to approach a man, does that intimidate men or do they like it?

I know here in America, mostly the men like it (takes the responsibility of approaching off of them) but some would consider it too forward. Guess it all depends on the man. So I'm curious how others feel about it. :rolleyes:

I myself didn't mind approaching a man (when I was single). Guess I just hit a point where "fear of rejection" didn't matter to me. I felt like "if you don't try, you will never know". What do you have to lose honestly??? But I also loved to flirt to lure a man in as well... a smile, a glance etc.

scanlas

To clear up, I don't think anyone should do the approaching. Do whatever you feel like doing.

I think most men would like women to approach them, it's a compliment.

AARRRGH

The way you old your glass says a lot about you, and should determine how people approach you:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8073432.stm

Eve_Dublin

Men who wonder why women can be a little stand-offish sometimes should take a look at this thread...gives another point of view...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055575769&page=12

I'm shocked...and to my old buddy Nick who thinks rude, ignorant b***y a-hole behaviour is on the rise among Irish women specifically, read this and try your best to see it from another point of view. It transpires that it works both ways. It's debated sensibly and all the women (and men) are aware that these are individual experiences, but because they're so disgusted by what happened to them, they'll admit that they're guilty of making the same type of sweeping generalisations regarding men that you have done (and as this is an Irish forum, I'm presuming most of their experiences happened with Irish men.) but they know it's not right. That's all they are....individual experiences.

So judging from what I've read from both male and female's experiences of each other on a weekend night in Ireland (and on a day-to-day basis for Irish women), it could be said that a-hole behaviour among Irish woman AND men is apparent in Ireland today...but it's still among the tiny minority. As I said before, leave them to it and just be happy in the knowledge that you're not one of them.

NickNolte

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Men who wonder why women can be a little stand-offish sometimes should take a look at this thread...gives another point of view...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055575769&page=12

I'm shocked...and to my old buddy Nick who thinks rude, ignorant b***y a-hole behaviour is on the rise among Irish women specifically, read this and try your best to see it from another point of view. It transpires that it works both ways. It's debated sensibly and all the women (and men) are aware that these are individual experiences, but because they're so disgusted by what happened to them, they'll admit that they're guilty of making the same type of sweeping generalisations regarding men that you have done (and as this is an Irish forum, I'm presuming most of their experiences happened with Irish men.) but they know it's not right. That's all they are....individual experiences.

So judging from what I've read from both male and female's experiences of each other on a weekend night in Ireland (and on a day-to-day basis for Irish women), it could be said that a-hole behaviour among Irish woman AND men is apparent in Ireland today...but it's still among the tiny minority. As I said before, leave them to it and just be happy in the knowledge that you're not one of them.

Clutching at straws. From my experience, the % of stuck up princesses in Ireland is infinitely higher than the % of guys who are going to try and stick their cock in your face in a nightclub.

You won't find closure with me on this, Eve. Sorry. Not that you need it but I've seen too much bitchy, arrogant and socially aggressive behaviour from Irish women to simplify it by saying "ah sure there's good and bad on both sides and sure they're only in the tiny minority". When that simply isn't true.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

Clutching at straws. From my experience, the % of stuck up princesses in Ireland is infinitely higher than the % of guys who are going to try and stick their cock in your face in a nightclub.

You won't find closure with me on this, Eve. Sorry. Not that you need it but I've seen too much bitchy, arrogant and socially aggressive behaviour from Irish women to simplify it by saying "ah sure there's good and bad on both sides and sure they're only in the tiny minority". When that simply isn't true.

Clutching at straws?? Really? How so? Of course it's from experience as you'd have the male perspective! How could you possibly know what some women in Irish society have to put up with?? That seemed like such an obvious point that I'm surprised you needed it pointed out to you. These women are speaking from their own female perspective, which is just as vaild as your own. It's a perspective you could never speak from as I couldn't from yours. You're arrogant enough to claim that your experiences and those of a few of your male friends somehow cancels out anything these women say? Interesting....maybe you're not worth debating with after all. From what I can see here and on other forums, it seems like anyone who makes a point that is in anyway opposed to your own, you cut it down.

I was willing to see it from your point of view but you're so stubborn that you can't possibly comprehend that there might be a reason behind the behaviour of both sexes.

NickNolte

Not stubborn. Not speaking from a male perspective (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean). I'm speaking from observation. Of course there are a lot of leery assholes out there. My point is that Irish princess syndrome is utterly endemic... not just the habit of a tiny minority. It may still be a minority but it's noticable enough to justify a generalisation.

dblennon

Just wanted to stick my nose in here for a second.

I completely agree that the number of "stuck up princesses in ireland" is vastly higher than the ROTW,

but they can be spotted a mile away (not smiling, in the middle of a group almost frowning, almost scowling, absolutely no banter + way too much like an umpa lumpa for my liking).

obviously the thread in the Ladies lounge is extreme but there is never going to be an equality when it comes to men & women meeting each other.
Women want providers!! thats just not going to change & even if you think about a completely independent highly successfull women (generalising) will be attracted to the guy who is assertive and confident enough to see her as an equal.