Why don't men approach women?

the_syco

scanlas wrote: »

Approaching a woman is a reward in itself

So if she rejects you, it's a reward. Sense you do not make, little one.

scanlas wrote: »

Unfortunately alot of men are not in touch with there masculinity, remaining passive, worrying what people think and reactive to other people. <snip> They aren't living in alignment with with what they are. If more men were in alignment with their natural masculine characteristics it would benefit both men and women. It's no one's fault really, it's the way things just turned out.

I blame feminism. Being "macho" is seen as been immature, and is looked down on. Hell, being "metrosexual" is meant to be good.

What would you prefer: a metrosexual man who spends longer in the bathroom than you, or a macho man with stubble on his face, and a quick comb through his hair a week ago? We're led to believe it's the former.

=-=

As for women approaching the man, the reaction shows how mature they are. Can't see many of the immature prats taking the woman seriously, and will often get defensive, calling her a slut, a whore, going back to the group of lads, and laughing about it. Anyone with an once of common sense will take it as a compliment, and engage the woman in conversation.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

Not stubborn. Not speaking from a male perspective (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean). I'm speaking from observation. Of course there are a lot of leery assholes out there. My point is that Irish princess syndrome is utterly endemic... not just the habit of a tiny minority. It may still be a minority but it's noticable enough to justify a generalisation.

What DON'T you understand about the phrase "male perspective"? Why are you pretending to be obtuse when you're clearly not? Only a man can speak about their experiences chatting up a heterosexual female as only a woman can speak about her experiences of being chatted up by a heterosexual male.

You would obviously see the situation from your friends perspective as would the girl's female friends. "My mate approached this girl last night and she told him to eff-off". "This guy came up to my friend last night and he told her he'd love a feel of her b**bs", for example. Two sides to every story.

And in fairness, are you always standing right next to your mates when they approach women???? I doubt it. That would be weird. And possibly intimidating for the girl in question. God knows what they're saying to the women to get those types of responses on such a regular basis. I'm sorry, I just don't buy into the fact that women respond so rudely so frequently when they haven't been provoked in a leery, disrespectful way.

Yes yes yes, I understand you and your pals have had many terrible experiences with Irish women but have you read the thread I sent? Your experiences are not any more valid than theirs. Simple as.

Eve_Dublin

dblennon wrote: »

Just wanted to stick my nose in here for a second.

I completely agree that the number of "stuck up princesses in ireland" is vastly higher than the ROTW,

How did you come to that conclusion, if you don't mind me asking?

dblennon

I'll reply by starting with my personal opinion that Irish women in general are the most interesting + best personalities in the world. (i'm Irish)

Unfortuneatley although not entirely without merit (considering the LL comments) there is a preconception that if any man approaches any women initially they cleary just want one thing!!! I have learned through experience that Irish women have the most difficulty letting this go.

I now have the confidence to continue to plough through with what I know works... and that is to keep changing the subject and being obviously interested in her responses untill i get the 'hook point' where I can see her guard drop and she starts to see me as a person and not the average A$$hole.

but that's not a compliment to women, it must very frustrating for the average nice guy out there who wouldn't have the confidence to keep going and will give up before the girl has given him a chance.

scanlas

the_syco wrote: »

So if she rejects you, it's a reward. Sense you do not make, little one.


I blame feminism. Being "macho" is seen as been immature, and is looked down on. Hell, being "metrosexual" is meant to be good.

What would you prefer: a metrosexual man who spends longer in the bathroom than you, or a macho man with stubble on his face, and a quick comb through his hair a week ago? We're led to believe it's the former.

=-=

As for women approaching the man, the reaction shows how mature they are. Can't see many of the immature prats taking the woman seriously, and will often get defensive, calling her a slut, a whore, going back to the group of lads, and laughing about it. Anyone with an once of common sense will take it as a compliment, and engage the woman in conversation.

I never said rejection is a reward, taking action and approaching is a reward, it feels good to be assertive, It's one of my favourite feelings, even if I get rejected I still feel better than when I stand around afraid to approach. If you get rid of your ego rejection won't bother you. The reason rejection bothers most men is because most men walk through the world in a daze. They put their sense of self worth in other people's reactions and opinions of them. I know that I am no more or less important than anyone else on this planet. That doesn't change whether a woman rejects me or not. I know no one elses opinion is more important than mine, that makes me more solid and rejection proof than most men, I've been rejected more than most men will ever be rejected in their life because most men sit around not approaching. Whether a woman rejects me or becomes attracted to me does not change my sense of self worth or value. I have value because I say I do.

Blaming outside factors for one's inability to approach is not masculine,it's just a comfort men use to overlook their own shortcomings.Macho isn't masculine either. Taking responsibility for yourself and your own shortcomings is masculine. "Feminisim" doesn't stop you approaching that beautiful woman across the street. You stop yourself with excuses such as I'm not good looking enough or I don't know what to say or what if she thinks I'm weird. These are excuses which which hide the real problem. You are the reason you can't approach a woman, you will not be able to approach women easily until you accept and truly underastand that fact. There isn't a force field stopping you from approaching women, you physically have the ability to walk up to any woman you see and talk to her. If her reaction determines your self worth of course you will be terrified.

97i9y3941

they should stop watching tv and realise that the average bloke isnt the senstive cute type ****€ you see on tv....

dblennon

If you are willing to learn from it rather than blaming the other person.

There is a evolutionary fear of rejection BTW, i've mentioned this before, but in early tribal existance there was the alfa male. the rest of the men would fall into line, but the overwhelming need to breed would often override this hierarchy.

A lesser man would try it on with a women in the group, If he was rejected by the women he would be expelled from the tribe and his genes would die out. This is believed to be a factor in the irrational fear of failure humans have when trying to mate.

Eve_Dublin

dblennon wrote: »

I'll reply by starting with my personal opinion that Irish women in general are the most interesting + best personalities in the world. (i'm Irish)

Unfortuneatley although not entirely without merit (considering the LL comments) there is a preconception that if any man approaches any women initially they cleary just want one thing!!! I have learned through experience that Irish women have the most difficulty letting this go.

I now have the confidence to continue to plough through with what I know works... and that is to keep changing the subject and being obviously interested in her responses untill i get the 'hook point' where I can see her guard drop and she starts to see me as a person and not the average A$$hole.

but that's not a compliment to women, it must very frustrating for the average nice guy out there who wouldn't have the confidence to keep going and will give up before the girl has given him a chance.

That's just the way it goes, I'm afraid. You're being judged on the initial few seconds of the conversation plus body language, looks and in a pub/bar type atmosphere, you have to

Sorry you've had bad experiences, you sound like a sweet fella but are you really expecting women to give every supposed "nice guy" out there a chance? Jaysus, there's plenty of nice fellas around in the country, really lovely fellas but if I was to sit chatting to them all night, I wouldn't get a chance to do what I actually came to do in the first place...dance, have a few drinks and catch up with friends. Contrary to popular belief, not all of us (male and female) are out on the pull, even if we're single.

Confidence is an attractive trait. Women find that attractive as do men but all is not lost! Confidence can be acquired over time or even faked (without getting plastered). We really can't tell if the man in question is nice or not if he's too shy to keep the conversation going for us to find out. Ye get me?

Bill-e

I find it impossible to make all the small talk.

Eve_Dublin

And just to add, I think women know if I guy is "only out for one thing". You can spot those guys a mile off...we can smell the desperation but saying that, there's nothing wrong with going out and with the hopes of getting a one night stand. Women do too, believe it or not. However, some men are not very good at being subtle about this and I don't think any women would like to be viewed as the kind of girl who's only good enough for a one night stand and nothing more. Subtle flirting makes things much more fun and leaves a woman thinking, "will he? won't he?". Some men out there haven't mastered this skill yet.

the_syco

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Confidence is an attractive trait. Women find that attractive as do men but all is not lost! Confidence can be acquired over time or even faked (without getting plastered). We really can't tell if the man in question is nice or not if he's too shy to keep the conversation going for us to find out. Ye get me?

From what I've seen, it's not the lack of confidence, it's the lack of small talk that can be the killer. The point where you're thinking "feck, wtf do I talk about", and things start to go arseways

Eve_Dublin

Bill-e wrote: »

I find it impossible to make all the small talk.

Me too, tbh but if you choose to meet women in a club/pub environment, you have to at least pretend you're decent at it. You can't just walk up to someone and ask them for whatever it is you want, be it sex or a relationship. That's not the way things work.

Eve_Dublin

the_syco wrote: »

From what I've seen, it's not the lack of confidence, it's the lack of small talk that can be the killer. The point where you're thinking "feck, wtf do I talk about", and things start to go arseways

Yeah, I know but if you've nothing to talk about, then maybe she ain't the girl for you.

If the guy isn't painfully shy, then I'd be suspicious as to why he's still trying to talk to me, even if we have nothing in common and the conversation is boring and stilted. I'd presume, rightly or wrongly, that the fella is trying to get himself into my undergarments. Personally, I wouldn't sleep with a guy who I couldn't at least have a bit of banter with.

enniscorthy

pub crawl in belfast last summer was in copperfields got chatting to 2 lovely girls from armagh about our lord hahahaha defo a great nite out

scanlas

dblennon wrote: »

If you are willing to learn from it rather than blaming the other person.

There is a evolutionary fear of rejection BTW, i've mentioned this before, but in early tribal existance there was the alfa male. the rest of the men would fall into line, but the overwhelming need to breed would often override this hierarchy.

A lesser man would try it on with a women in the group, If he was rejected by the women he would be expelled from the tribe and his genes would die out. This is believed to be a factor in the irrational fear of failure humans have when trying to mate.

That's very true, the fear of rejection is hard wired fromus living in tribes, where being rejected could result in ecxlusion from the tribe and ptential death, that's why so many men are so scared. These repurcussions of rejections don't applyt now and there is a solution.

You must pummel your brain with reference experiences of approaching women. After a while you brain internalizes the fact that the risk of danger is far less than prevously hard wired. As a result you become more indifferent to the outcome. Your brain then relaxes you and gives you acces to your best personality that you have around your close friends. You find that you begin projecting your voice more and saying more edgy things. The rhythm of your voice, tonality, body language etc becomes that of a confident man, as a result the women treat react to you better over time, the more good reactions you get the more your body/brain expects a good on a deep level. The women can sense this in you, which communicates you have had success with women in the past which is attractive. This is all going on a subconscious level, as a result you get more success. The more of these reference experiences you get the stronger your reality becomes.

I'll give an example of internalized behavour. When you first put try to put in a contact lens you flinch even though you know it's safe on a logical level like chatting up a woman.Your brain and body hasn't internalized that though, it needs reference experiences to know it's safe. Over time your body knows it's safe on a deep level through reference eperiences. You stop flinching.

If you tell a guy to chat up a beautiful for the first time and tell him to smile, project his voice and be commanding he will try but he will flinch and the woman will pick up on that even if only on a subconscious level. the smile and tonality will be that bit off rhythm which doesn't seem natural. The only way to get rid of that flynch and get a nice smooth rhythm to your subcommunications is to get lots of reference experiences under your belt.

When someone starts talking to you who is postive, happy and seems to expect you to to react well like you know them it feels weird not being friendly back.

dblennon

Yeap Thanks for expanding on my point.

BTW small talk is a term I phrase as ploughing you can see from the above comments that girls are looking for something to say aswell, if you just change from one topic to the other it covers the tough part at the start.

Thanks for the compliment Eve, I am a sweet guy, and I agree that a girl is perfectly entitled to her first opinion I certainly don't consider anyone who wanted to leave after 30 seconds as anything worth registering as I'm not looking for acceptance from anyone else.

I think that guys have been completely imasculated and since they're such bitches they have an emotional reaction when they are shot down.

thats the first time I've analysed the guys side it's pretty pathetic really.
Although I do remember being that guy.

MIN2511

Right, so on sat i chatted a guy . I had seen him in the same pub a couple of times, plus the girls' dared me. It wasn't bad, he's nice, told him about the dare, he laughed, carried and hugged me a few times. Will i do it again, maybe...

NickNolte

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

What DON'T you understand about the phrase "male perspective"? Why are you pretending to be obtuse when you're clearly not? Only a man can speak about their experiences chatting up a heterosexual female as only a woman can speak about her experiences of being chatted up by a heterosexual male.

You would obviously see the situation from your friends perspective as would the girl's female friends. "My mate approached this girl last night and she told him to eff-off". "This guy came up to my friend last night and he told her he'd love a feel of her b**bs", for example. Two sides to every story.

And in fairness, are you always standing right next to your mates when they approach women???? I doubt it. That would be weird. And possibly intimidating for the girl in question. God knows what they're saying to the women to get those types of responses on such a regular basis. I'm sorry, I just don't buy into the fact that women respond so rudely so frequently when they haven't been provoked in a leery, disrespectful way.

Yes yes yes, I understand you and your pals have had many terrible experiences with Irish women but have you read the thread I sent? Your experiences are not any more valid than theirs. Simple as.

LIsten, we'll agree to disagree. It would be silly to betray my observations and experience based on opinions from a discussion on the internet. Bitchy princess syndrome is endemic in Irish society... that is my opinion. You don't have to agree with me.

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

LIsten, we'll agree to disagree. It would be silly to betray my observations and experience based on opinions from a discussion on the internet. Bitchy princess syndrome is endemic in Irish society... that is my opinion. You don't have to agree with me.

Well I don't. Not at all. Fine. Lets agree to disagree (I hate agreeing to disagree...).

veryangryman

I dont think you will find a man who disagrees with Nick here Eve.

On the flipside, youll probably struggle to find a Woman who disagrees with you.

Different strokes for different genitals

scanlas

Women have one personality for attractive men and one personality for unattractive men.

An attractive man is only partially determined by looks, it is mainly determined by behavours.

On a good not out for me every woman in the room is friendly and fun around me, on a bad night most are not friendly to me.

After a good night where you were attractive you go home and think how nice, friendly and interesting those girls were, but on another night where you were displaying unattractive behavours you go home thinking they are such bitches. Wrong Wrong Wrong. Most of the time they are not bitches, you were being unattractive so they showed you the bitchier side of their personality. It is mainly your own fault that a woman is bitchy to you. Of course there are exceptions.

The women you know in your social circle who are so nice around you would be bitchy or mean to you if you cold approached them in a bar in in an unattracive way.

That's just the way it is, don't judge it. We are all attracted to value like a magnet. If you subcommunicate value she will become attracted. If you have no value she won't want anything to do with you.

A man has value to woman when he is decisive, fearless, has good social skills, understands women and their sexuality, has social connections, assertive, emotionally stimulating etc...

People move towards value and rationalize their decisions afterwards.

So for all those people who say women are bitchy in Ireland, what that communicates to women is you are unsuccessful with women and don't have options when it comes to women. Women are always reading the communication beneath the surface. They can tell if you are successful with women from your subcommunications.

Porkpie

MIN2511 wrote: »

Right, so on sat i chatted a guy . I had seen him in the same pub a couple of times, plus the girls' dared me. It wasn't bad, he's nice, told him about the dare, he laughed, carried and hugged me a few times. Will i do it again, maybe...

See, you got a good reaction. Well done. I wish I got this kind of reception every time I tried to chat someone up. I personally am not afraid of rejection, rather I am put off by the likelihood that I will be get a rude, nasty reaction which happens so often. IMO it's easier for women to approach guys. We're not used to being chatted up as much and most of the decent fellas out there will be flattered and will treat you with respect if you talk to them.

scanlas

Hey Porkpie,

Your expectation of nasty reactions is causing alot of women's nasty reactions to you.

NickNolte

scanlas wrote: »

Most of the time they are not bitches, you were being unattractive

How could you possibly know that?

scanlas wrote: »

We are all attracted to value like a magnet. If you subcommunicate value she will become attracted. If you have no value she won't want anything to do with you.

I just think a lot of Irish women are bitchy is all. You seem to think they're all judgemental, shallow, status-seeking social climbers. Go you. :rolleyes:

scanlas wrote: »

So for all those people who say women are bitchy in Ireland, what that communicates to women is you are unsuccessful with women and don't have options when it comes to women.

I think Irish women are bitchy and socially aggressive. I've recently just gotten engaged (to a foreign lady). Kind of flushes your argument down the toilet really.

scanlas wrote: »

Women are always reading the communication beneath the surface. They can tell if you are successful with women from your subcommunications.

Translation: women are excessively judgemental? If what you're saying is true, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with some kind of wonderful, spiritual 6th sense. It's just shallowness and the inability to communicate with members of the opposite sex without being selfishly desparate and greedy and wanting something in return. End of story. Spare me the psychobabble FFS.

Porkpie

scanlas wrote: »

Hey Porkpie,

Your expectation of nasty reactions is causing alot of women's nasty reactions to you.

No, I don't think so. It just happens to be the reality. If I expected someone to be rude to me I wouldn't talk to them. There have been times where I thought women would be receptive enough but they turned out to be b*tches. It hasn't totally put me off talking to women though, I still make the effort, the sucker that I am Although it would be nice if more women made the effort.

scanlas

I wouldn't call getting a woman to marry you being succesful with women, it doesn't even mean you are successful with that woman.

Women marry plain, boring men although the time who they aren't sexually attracted to.

When I talk about being successful with women I mean being a man who can have sex and good relationships with all sorts of different beautiful, sexy women at ease. You can go out any night and have a pretty good chance of having sex with a beautiful woman if you so wish, regardless of the nationality.

Porkpie, you may not expect on a logical level to get a nasty reaction, but you have not internalized that belief.

The first time you dive from a 20 foot diving board into a pool will be alot different to the 100th. The first time you know you wond't be hurt, but still you struggle to make that first dive. Your unconscous belief is that you might get hurt badly, by the 100th dive your unconscous belief has changed to this isn't dangerous. You won't hesitate or flinch. Women can pick up on that hesitation and flinching when approaching from your voice, body language and facial expressions.

the_syco

scanlas wrote: »

Most of the time they are not bitches, you were being unattractive so they showed you the bitchier side of their personality. It is mainly your own fault that a woman is bitchy to you. Of course there are exceptions.

I don't understand what you mean from this.

scanlas wrote: »

The women you know in your social circle who are so nice around you would be bitchy or mean to you if you cold approached them in a bar in in an unattracive way.

Suppose it comes down to this. Me, I've no idea how to approach women. I talk to random women, but after a quick chat, I've ran out of stuff to say, and then I'm stumped.

As for the bitches, I don't know. I never see them, except in "dancy" clubs. Since I goto Fibbers, Bruxelles, etc, I don't seem to come across the bItches. On the downside, most of the women there are already taken, but meh, as is life.

NickNolte

scanlas wrote: »

I wouldn't call getting a woman to marry you being succesful with women, it doesn't even mean you are successful with that woman.

Without sounding like I'm bragging, I've had plenty of 'success' with women on various levels. Fairly normal relationships to be honest with you.

scanlas wrote: »

Women marry plain, boring men although the time who they aren't sexually attracted to.

Eeeeeesh. Good for them. I hope they find happiness somehow.

scanlas wrote: »

When I talk about being successful with women I mean being a man who can have sex and good relationships with all sorts of different beautiful, sexy women at ease. You can go out any night and have a pretty good chance of having sex with a beautiful woman if you so wish, regardless of the nationality.

I suppose you're going to tell me that you don't necessarily need to be incredibly good looking, have a fat wallet and your BMW keys with you to be that man.

scanlas wrote: »

Porkpie, you may not expect on a logical level to get a nasty reaction, but you have not internalized that belief.

Oh God.

scanlas wrote: »

The first time you dive from a 20 foot diving board into a pool will be alot different to the 100th. The first time you know you wond't be hurt, but still you struggle to make that first dive. Your unconscous belief is that you might get hurt badly, by the 100th dive your unconscous belief has changed to this isn't dangerous. You won't hesitate or flinch. Women can pick up on that hesitation and flinching when approaching from your voice, body language and facial expressions.

You seem to be asserting that women are constantly judging and evaluating men based on some fairly shallow criteria. Perhaps without actually looking at themselves first. I would consider that being up themselves.

MIN2511

Porkpie wrote: »

See, you got a good reaction. Well done. I wish I got this kind of reception every time I tried to chat someone up. I personally am not afraid of rejection, rather I am put off by the likelihood that I will be get a rude, nasty reaction which happens so often. IMO it's easier for women to approach guys. We're not used to being chatted up as much and most of the decent fellas out there will be flattered and will treat you with respect if you talk to them.

So i had this same conversation with a 2 lads @ the weekend. And both said they need alcohol to chat women up, because they are scared of being told to feck off.
I now understand that it is much harder for a guy than it is for women.

Porkpie

MIN2511 wrote: »

So i had this same conversation with a 2 lads @ the weekend. And both said they need alcohol to chat women up, because they are scared of being told to feck off.
I now understand that it is much harder for a guy than it is for women.

At last

dblennon

Nick your opinion is all over the place!

& you don't seem to be getting the point scanlas is making.

Why is it the responsibility of a girl to be nice to you? especially in the nightclub scene, I know I said that I agreed with the princess syndrome but I've come to the conclusion that this is because we Irish males are lechorous drunkin bafoons while we're drunk, Me included.

If a girl comes up to you and it was the 15th time you had been approached that night or even that week, your ability to politely enter conversation for 5-10 mins and then try to extricate yourself would become extrordinarily teadious.

I can tell you now that I can have fun with random women evry night I go out but it's absolutely imperative that I have a positive frame of mind. I now know that I am interesteing and women are interested in what I say & do.

If your negative outlook is working for you then ce la vie, I just know that It didn't work for me!!

NickNolte

dblennon wrote: »

Nick your opinion is all over the place!

It's been fairly consistent. Point out to me where my opinion is 'all over the place'

dblennon wrote: »

you don't seem to be getting the point scanlas is making.

Most of it's ridiculous nonsense to be perfectly honest. Self-defeating as well (assuming scanlas is a female?)

dblennon wrote: »

Why is it the responsibility of a girl to be nice to you?

It's not anybody's "responsibility" to be nice to anyone. It's called common decency and class.

dblennon wrote: »

I know I said that I agreed with the princess syndrome but I've come to the conclusion that this is because we Irish males are lechorous drunkin bafoons while we're drunk, Me included.

Sorry, you can only speak for yourself thank you very much. I don't drink a lot and I'm certainly far from a lecherous bufoon.

dblennon wrote: »

If a girl comes up to you and it was the 15th time you had been approached that night or even that week, your ability to politely enter conversation for 5-10 mins and then try to extricate yourself would become extrordinarily teadious.

Yeah, you're probably right to be fair. It would annoy me. So what's the solution? Should men stop chatting up women?

dblennon wrote: »

I can tell you now that I can have fun with random women evry night I go out but it's absolutely imperative that I have a positive frame of mind. I now know that I am interesteing and women are interested in what I say & do.

Good for you.

dblennon wrote: »

If your negative outlook is working for you then ce la vie, I just know that It didn't work for me!!

I don't really know what you mean. I can only assume you've been working on your self confidence and you've been chatting up some nice girls. Well done. It's not really anything to do with the point I was making.

994

dblennon wrote: »

Nick your opinion is all over the place!

& you don't seem to be getting the point scanlas is making.

Why is it the responsibility of a girl to be nice to you? especially in the nightclub scene, I know I said that I agreed with the princess syndrome but I've come to the conclusion that this is because we Irish males are lechorous drunkin bafoons while we're drunk, Me included.

Well this is a bit of a pattern, to be honest. Bad behaviour by women is always due to nasty men. It's disrespectful to both sexes to assume that (i) men are responsible for all wrongdoing and (ii) women don't act, they just react to male behaviour.

994

dblennon wrote: »

If you are willing to learn from it rather than blaming the other person.

There is a evolutionary fear of rejection BTW, i've mentioned this before, but in early tribal existance there was the alfa male. the rest of the men would fall into line, but the overwhelming need to breed would often override this hierarchy.

A lesser man would try it on with a women in the group, If he was rejected by the women he would be expelled from the tribe and his genes would die out. This is believed to be a factor in the irrational fear of failure humans have when trying to mate.

rubbish, no tribe would last long if it expelled men so easily.

MIN2511

Porkpie wrote: »

At last

Ah yeah, i know... Am out tonight and i might try to talk to another guy again.
I don't think i'd be mad if a guy says no... My only problem with chatting lads up is that they tend to think because the girl made the first move she's gagging for it.

Wibbs

994 wrote: »

rubbish, no tribe would last long if it expelled men so easily.

I agree with you. Though maybe not expelled, just removed from the mating pool, or removed enough that they didn't have many kids. If you look at modern human DNA there are more female lines going back to antiquity than male lines. That does seem to suggest that fewer men had sex and reproduced with more women. Now lines can die out for other reasons than that and it is more subtle, but that would lend some credence to the idea of certain males having more reproductive success.

I would agree with scanlas as far as the risk taking is concerned. As a general rule women prefer men who are social risk takers. It shows confidence, ambition, emotional strength and sociability. All very attractive to women. Women tend to go for rich guys for the same reasons. It's not the money it's what it represents. It stands to reason too. Women have more to lose by making the wrong reproductive choice.

As for the thread title, I think our society(western) is in a state of flux. In a way it's more of a free for all than it was say 100 years ago. Women have more choice now. They have more reproductive choices. Men have less. Or at least "lower value" men have less. When male power was running strong the average man could expect to marry someone. Bachelors were rarer than today. He would have had more confidence. Again because women had less choice in life in general. Now that they have more choice, their honest sexual/reproductive wants are more to the fore.

Basically women can afford to more fussy than they were before. Very high value women in the past may have had more choices, but now that's filtered down. So the approach a guy makes is part of that choice process.

irish_bob

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree with you. Though maybe not expelled, just removed from the mating pool, or removed enough that they didn't have many kids. If you look at modern human DNA there are more female lines going back to antiquity than male lines. That does seem to suggest that fewer men had sex and reproduced with more women. Now lines can die out for other reasons than that and it is more subtle, but that would lend some credence to the idea of certain males having more reproductive success.

I would agree with scanlas as far as the risk taking is concerned. As a general rule women prefer men who are social risk takers. It shows confidence, ambition, emotional strength and sociability. All very attractive to women. Women tend to go for rich guys for the same reasons. It's not the money it's what it represents. It stands to reason too. Women have more to lose by making the wrong reproductive choice.

As for the thread title, I think our society(western) is in a state of flux. In a way it's more of a free for all than it was say 100 years ago. Women have more choice now. They have more reproductive choices. Men have less. Or at least "lower value" men have less. When male power was running strong the average man could expect to marry someone. Bachelors were rarer than today. He would have had more confidence. Again because women had less choice in life in general. Now that they have more choice, their honest sexual/reproductive wants are more to the fore.

Basically women can afford to more fussy than they were before. Very high value women in the past may have had more choices, but now that's filtered down. So the approach a guy makes is part of that choice process.

bachelors in ireland were very very common 40 and 50 years ago , much more common than nowadays , especially in rural ireland but this was often down to the fact that the eldest son would not recieve the family farm until he was in his 50,s or just before his dad died , therfore he would be then too old and ugly to find a woman , this was also one of the reasons why years ago , it was not unusual for a 20 year old woman to marry a 50 year old man , untill he got his hands on the home farm , he was not fit for purpose , again this was in rural ireland for the most part

NickNolte

So do 'low value' women go for 'low value' men or what? Or do they go for 'high value' men when their in their 20's and then, when their arse hits the floor and their collection of cats starts to get alarmingly large, do they trade down and settle for a 'low value' man? How does Irish women's social greed and frustrated desperation work exactly? Do they realise that an increasing number of 'high value' men are opting for a life of bachelorhood as oppoosed to getting involved with some judgemental, materialistic, status seeking social climber?

Wibbs

NickNolte wrote: »

So do 'low value' women go for 'low value' men or what? Or do they go for 'high value' men when their in their 20's and then, when their arse hits the floor and their collection of cats starts to get alarmingly large, do they trade down and settle for a 'low value' man? How does Irish women's social greed and frustrated desperation work exactly? Do they realise that an increasing number of 'high value' men are opting for a life of bachelorhood as oppoosed to getting involved with some judgemental, materialistic, status seeking social climber?

I'd say that's common enough. I certainly know women who went for and stayed with guys when they hit their mid 30's that they wouldn't have even entertained in their early 20's. Now with some of them it was maturity kicking in of course, but with most I would say not.

People tend to end up with people of the same "value"(though the word has issues). Mens reproductive value tends to go up as they age all things being equal. They become more settled emotionally, socially and in their career, which are attractants for women. Womens value drops as they age all things being equal. I am not saying women are valueless as they age by any stretch, but in the reproductive arena it drops. While there is some crossover, women are valued more for their looks than men as those looks signify reproductive fitness. IE youth. A woman's reproductive peak is before the age of 25 and drops off after that. Individuals clearly differ, but an average man of 35 has more choice of partners than an average woman of 35. And an average woman of 22 has more choice than an average man of 22.

getz

i am now a aop but before i was married i never had a problem in aproaching and picking up femails ,in my early days as a merchant seaman it was important that i never waisted my time chasing no hopers ,so i soon looked for the right signals before moving in, like the smile,glance,flick of the eye lashes,or the over the top laughter, so lads learn the signals. and girls, send them to show you are interested.

Eve_Dublin

I pinched this link from another forum that was posted up today...thought it would be of some interest...

http://www.tribune.ie/sport/hurling/article/2009/may/24/power-of-the-pull/

This guy believes he has it sussed...personally I hate the idea that i'm something to be "pulled" just because I'm a "beautiful woman" (default Irish disclaimer...I don't think I'm a beautiful woman). What's it all about, eh? This is all very disheartening, even reading some the comments from people here. It's all so over-analysed, generalised, cold and calculated. Are we as humans THAT predictable?

dblennon

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I pinched this link from another forum that was posted up today...thought it would be of some interest...

http://www.tribune.ie/sport/hurling/article/2009/may/24/power-of-the-pull/

This guy believes he has it sussed...personally I hate the idea that i'm something to be "pulled" just because I'm a "beautiful woman" (default Irish disclaimer...I don't think I'm a beautiful woman). What's it all about, eh? This is all very disheartening, even reading some the comments from people here. It's all so over-analysed, generalised, cold and calculated. Are we as humans THAT predictable?

of course not, I hope! but I guess a discussion about men & women is going to bring about over analysis and people trying to rationalise emotions.

Oh and that article!! my god that's antiquated people were spewing those theories back in 2003 in the US. it ran it's course very quickly because it didn't fix the problem with persons personality.
if it still works in Dublin(unlikely) fair enough

Porkpie

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I pinched this link from another forum that was posted up today...thought it would be of some interest...

http://www.tribune.ie/sport/hurling/article/2009/may/24/power-of-the-pull/

This guy believes he has it sussed...personally I hate the idea that i'm something to be "pulled" just because I'm a "beautiful woman" (default Irish disclaimer...I don't think I'm a beautiful woman). What's it all about, eh? This is all very disheartening, even reading some the comments from people here. It's all so over-analysed, generalised, cold and calculated. Are we as humans THAT predictable?

He's just importing all the 'pick up' techniques from America that have become increasingly popular in recent times. These kind of 'gurus' prey on the insecurities of guys who are unsuccessful with women - just like the twats on those infomercials for exercise equipment like 'ab king pro' promise that you will never return to the old black and white days when you struggled to do sit-ups. 'Yes, guys, you can seduce any beautiful woman you want' - piss off, will you?

Can women not cop on to these wannabe 'pick up artists' who use phoney openers like 'ladies, can I get your opinion on something'? I mean, do they actually work? Whatever happened to being genuine, going out and having fun? There's nothing wrong with lads working on their looks and confidence, but save your money and stay away from these seminars and boot camps!

irish_bob

NickNolte wrote: »

So do 'low value' women go for 'low value' men or what? Or do they go for 'high value' men when their in their 20's and then, when their arse hits the floor and their collection of cats starts to get alarmingly large, do they trade down and settle for a 'low value' man? How does Irish women's social greed and frustrated desperation work exactly? Do they realise that an increasing number of 'high value' men are opting for a life of bachelorhood as oppoosed to getting involved with some judgemental, materialistic, status seeking social climber?

women are more attracted to powerfull men ( wealth , status ) than men are attracted to powerfull women , as long as a woman is pretty , most men are not too bothered about anything else including if the woman is weak of charechter , women will avoid weak men if at all possible , in another thread and another topic but not unrelated , a poster stated that violent men are more likely to leave off spring than non violent men , this is because women find a violent bad man still more attractive than a wimp , dweeb , geek , watch any report about gangsters in limerick , dublin etc , they always have women and kids , the old saying thier wrong but thier strong springs to mind

Wibbs

Porkpie wrote: »

He's just importing all the 'pick up' techniques from America that have become increasingly popular in recent times. These kind of 'gurus' prey on the insecurities of guys who are unsuccessful with women - just like the twats on those infomercials for exercise equipment like 'ab king pro' promise that you will never return to the old black and white days when you struggled to do sit-ups. 'Yes, guys, you can seduce any beautiful woman you want' - piss off, will you?

Can women not cop on to these wannabe 'pick up artists' who use phoney openers like 'ladies, can I get your opinion on something'? I mean, do they actually work? Whatever happened to being genuine, going out and having fun? There's nothing wrong with lads working on their looks and confidence, but save your money and stay away from these seminars and boot camps!

I agree. I think it has two things going for it's popularity and why the level of BS is often missed. 1) it contains a grain of truth, sometimes more than a grain. 2) it seems to me more men nowadays have little clue when it comes to even interacting with women, much less attracting or "picking them up".

Speaking as an ex manslut, the stuff I have read of it, though little enough TBH makes quite a bit of sense. I certainly see some of the "techniques" reflected in how I went about things and how I was sometimes more successful when objectively better men were not.

I do think that a lot of men have one idea of women that bares little reality in the mating/dating game. Are we the same in general? Yes. Are we different in dating approaches? Yes. Very, in my humble.

A lot don't even see women as just a small variation on the human theme and are either afraid of them and the rejection they appear to hold, or mistrust or even despise them at an extreme. Sometimes a little from column A and a little from column B. I've seen guys royally screw up their chances, when they were given the green light. Again because they didn't have a clue. Ironically the idea that women are different, gets in the way of accepting that they can be in the dating game and not exploring that and trying to understand that. The end result is men saying "women can't be understood" which is bollix and leaves neither side moving forward.

Women are often guilty of this too BTW, but because its largely a sellers market they can get away with it more. The amount of women I know that will claim they know more about relationships than men, that they have more intuition than and about men etc. The problem is of course all this discussion is with other women. It's an opinion formed in a vacuum. One half of the equation is missing. Indeed the women I've known that claim superior "intuition" and knowledge of relationships are more often than not the ones who have made among the worst choices in men. They then luckily end up with a good man and claim it was their innate knowledge that got them there. Conveniently forgetting the bumps in the past and the fact even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

I think individuals are all pretty much different, but with certain gender frameworks that are pretty consistent across the board. I alos think it's good we have these debates, so that we as human beings may better navigate the time of gender flux we're in at the moment.

end ramble:o

MrMojoRisin

lifelonglufc wrote: »

The success rate of a nice fella approaching a nice girl and she being welcoming is probably quite low in my opinion! .... 5) Most Irish girls tend to play the boyfriend card, or some other useless card to get out of talking to the guy that would have the courage to approach her, if shes not interested. So why if a fella has the balls to approach a girl and trying to being genuine and nice, can a girl not be honest and says what she thinks or feels or just be nice?!....

whats all this about 'playing the boyfriend card'? maybe these girls/women do have boyfriends? I mean,if theyre attractive enough for u to consider approaching them,why is it so unbelievable that they really do have boyfriends ??

but, in fairness, it has 2 be said that most Irish fellas are very disrespectful and verbally abusive towards Irish females- especially when they have a few drinks on them. Look,I grew up with three sisters so I know how to treat women w/ respect. One of my younger sisters gets nothin but hassle and rude comments thrown at her from (usually 25+, ugly, chubby) blokes going down da street in the middle of the day (weekdays) while minding her own business and dressed conservatively.She doesnt act like shes superior 2 anybody else and doesnt sashay around da place like shes a supermodel.
But the disrespect of Irish fellas has completely put her off going near any of them,so shes staying single until she finds a decent non-Irish bloke who doesnt treat her like a great opportunity 4 a ride. Ive been out and about with my sister n the daytime and ive seen dirty codgers lookin at her like shes a cake window display when walking past. All Irish. Sure it's no wonder Irish girls/women have a nasty attitude towards Irish blokes.

97i9y3941

women often get the poor odd ejit to buy them a drink,just flutter the eyelids and show intrest and away they go!

NickNolte

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

most Irish fellas are very disrespectful and verbally abusive towards Irish females

No. They're not.

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

shes staying single until she finds a decent non-Irish bloke who doesnt treat her like a great opportunity 4 a ride.

I think most Irish guys would be happy to hand over any of their damaged, bitter female compatriots to foreign men to be honest.

97i9y3941

im sure theres ignorant,ugly,balding,rude foreign blokes abroad aswell,they just dont come over here much!

MrMojoRisin

NickNolte wrote: »

No. They're not.

talk to women and see what they have to say rather than speakin for yourself and your group of buddies in terms of attitude

I think most Irish guys would be happy to hand over any of their damaged, bitter female compatriots to foreign men to be honest.

my sister is NOT damaged or bitter. She attracts Irish pricks,she doesnt like them (no surprises there), so she's taking her good self elsewhere to someone who treats her respectfully and not as an entry-exit point for some poor sod's wedger