I completely disagree with Bill Cullen!!

Saab Ed

partyguinness wrote: »

I bought my car in the UK xmas 12 mnts ago. I saved over 10k even after VRT was paid. 6 of my friends have followed suit and we all have nice shiny BMWs:o

As unpatriotic as this is...I will prob never buy another car in Ireland again...why should I? I get better choice more extras and for half the price....

ps It will be a very very long time before I can buy another car.

Oh agreed 100% but thats not the dealer pocketing the difference, thats the distrubutor. Dont you think if it was that easy the dealers would just drop the price. Dealers are screwed in this situation.

partyguinness

Well thats it..dealers are caught in an impossible situation but they suely are partly to blame. The EU were very unhappy about VRT but the Gov choose to ignore it...why? Esay cash...there must have been some lobbying from the car industry that had it introduced or at least maintained. Of course once the VRT was firmly in place everyone was caught when people started flooding to England. Hell it's an industry in itself. Were the car dealers using VRT to disguise high prices and mark ups??

Many opened up brand new spanking forecourts which have to be paid for.

But surely if, say VRT, was abolished tomorrow then the mark up and profit margin should still remain for dealers? But is it they second hand car market that it effects?

McSpud

I saw a little of the Late Late replay & Cullen wanted the government to boost housing development. I was unable to listen to anything else he had to say after that idiocy.

People don't buy cars in large numbers in a recession. Just like people don't go on expensive holidays. Retailing is not the industry to be in to avoid recessions.

Car Dealers never cease to amaze anyway. I have seen an Alfar Romeo 159 for sale at 30k for the past 6 month with no change in price although the original photos with snow on the ground have been changed.

Saab Ed

I just want to make a little point to the non-trade people on this thread

Up until circa 00-01 we in Ireland had the cheapest pre tax cars in Europe. (needed because of our punitive tax system ) Infact they were so cheap and with the Irish pound-English pound exchange rate at the time, Irish car dealers were exporting nearly as many cars to the UK as they were selling in Ireland and for far greater profit margins than you got from an Irish retail customer. The manufacturers didnt like this because it was killing their margins in the UK and UK dealers were up in arms. The responce from the manufacturers was to slowly eek the prices here up but because we were in the cusp of a boom nobody noticed. The eeking didnt work so bigger jumps in prices arrived. I remember in 2001 I think , Transit vans went up 2 grand over night. So you see dealers are right pissed because they got beaten up by the government , then the manufacturer (price increases and the demand to build glass palace showrooms ) and now the government again.

smash

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

I was so frustrated listening to Bill Cullen, he confirmed my impression of car dealers in Ireland, selfish and arrogant to the death.
The fact that he would not let Boyle speak was disgraceful and Anton Savage should have controlled that more but he didn't really, maybe because Bill was in the studio and Dan Boyle was on the phone..still tho.

Boyle wouldn't answer the questions and didn't produce 1 fact, instead he tried to divert the conversation with talk about electric cars and the global crisis....

We don't have electric cars, and if we brought them in then every car in the country would be worth €0 as dealers just wouldn't take them in!

The global crisis has nothing to do with the loss the government made from VRT and Motor tax since the new Co2 measures!

I think Anton let Bill talk like that because he knew Boyle just wasn't answering the questions put to him!

Drummerboy08

Normally i'd be neck deep in this argument, but you know something? Im not bothered with it anymore.

I've lost faith in our governments ability to do anything right. I just cant be arsed with the argument. Im just going to keep my head down and do my job well. Thats all i can do.

Its a shame, because i think that if we had someone half competent at their job in power, the motor trade, and indeed the whole economy could be in a better position.

Anyhow. Off to work i go!

partyguinness

Saab Ed wrote: »

I just want to make a little point to the non-trade people on this thread

Up until circa 00-01 we in Ireland had the cheapest pre tax cars in Europe. (needed because of our punitive tax system ) Infact they were so cheap and with the Irish pound-English pound exchange rate at the time, Irish car dealers were exporting nearly as many cars to the UK as they were selling in Ireland and for far greater profit margins than you got from an Irish retail customer. The manufacturers didnt like this because it was killing their margins in the UK and UK dealers were up in arms. The responce from the manufacturers was to slowly eek the prices here up but because we were in the cusp of a boom nobody noticed. The eeking didnt work so bigger jumps in prices arrived. I remember in 2001 I think , Transit vans went up 2 grand over night. So you see dealers are right pissed because they got beaten up by the government , then the manufacturer (price increases and the demand to build glass palace showrooms ) and now the government again.

Would it be fair to say that perhaps the industry took its eye off the ball and allowed to the sitution to develop...the boom and amount of new sales = everyone happy?

Seth Brundle

steve06 wrote: »

2 points Bill was making was:

1.) The VRT and tax changes have destroyed the 2nd hand market because cars are not worth what they use to be and dealers don't want them as trade ins.

2.) The VRT and tax changes have lost massive amounts of revenue for the government.

Both points are true!

No they aren't!
1.) Dealers don't want trade-ins because nothing is really selling - new or old.
2.) the collapse in vehicle sales has resulted in lost income. The motor tax & VRT changes didn't cause this in a major way (they did obviously have an effect). The economic downturn (starting about the time that the price of oil went through the roof) IMO was the main culprit! That's why cars aren't selling on a global basis - its not just happening in Ireland!

steve06 wrote: »

He also mentioned that they were not necessary because manufacturers were reducing their emissions anyway, so these tax's didn't need to be altered to force people to buy low Co2 cars - they were already either here, or on their way. His most important point was that the motor industry isn't the only polluter in the country, and only plays a small part, but it's the only one getting hit with these tax's.

Whilst they don't give a rats ass what kind of bandings Ireland puts in place, manufacturers aren't going as fast as we possibly need to. However, part of the tax changes was to encourage people against buying a big thirsty 760Li in favour of a small "eco friently" Honda or whatever.

ardmacha wrote: »

Imports from the UK destroyed the second hand market. Now there is no doubt that the ability to apply the new rates of VRT to second hand vehicles from the UK has distorted the market somewhat. However the main reason for the imports from the UK is the rapid decline in Sterling, itself a feature of the changes in the economy. A car imported new into the UK when Sterling was €1.50 was always going to be good value second hand 2 or 3 years later when Sterling was €1.10.

Again, I disagree with the first line here. Whilst they did affect it, imports didn't destroy the 2nd hand market as the vast majority of people are not/were not travelling overseas.
What damaged the market is the quick decrease in car values because of (in part the tax changes but mainly) the economic mess.

Drummerboy08

partyguinness wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that perhaps the industry took its eye off the ball and allowed to the sitution to develop...the boom and amount of new sales = everyone happy?

Not only the trade - but the general public too. They were the ones who paid the higher prices in the first place.

But yes, your right.

Owen

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Normally i'd be neck deep in this argument, but you know something? Im not bothered with it anymore.

+1

Saab Ed

partyguinness wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that perhaps the industry took its eye off the ball and allowed to the sitution to develop...the boom and amount of new sales = everyone happy?

Yup that too....But everybody took their eye off the ball hence the mess we're in and to hammer an industry when its down is crazy. Im not suggesting the motor trade be absolved of all its past crimes ( of which there are plenty ) but the current goverment policy is a disaster. Next thing coming brought on by the shortage of used cheap cars ( and it will happen very soon because nobody is trading in ) is the real sh**e from the UK will start turning up here ( some would say it is already ). Clocked , crashed ,written off stuff will be everywhere but the "Motor industry" as a whole will be tared as one for that too...

Drummerboy08

kbannon wrote: »

1.) Dealers don't want trade-ins because nothing is really selling - new or old.

Not true. Believe it or not, there is a very good market out there at the minute for cars at the right price. From what i see, the trade love the stuff around 4/5/6 grand. They cant seem to get enough of it.

There are cars selling, just as long as they are priced right.

Saab Ed

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Not true. Believe it or not, there is a very good market out there at the minute for cars at the right price. From what i see, the trade love the stuff around 4/5/6 grand. They cant seem to get enough of it.

There are cars selling, just as long as they are priced right.

but where do you get it....thats my problem

partyguinness

Of course everyone is guilty in all sectors but I am just confining it to the motor industry as this is the thread at hand.

I have come across part time dealers i.e. small back garages who dabble in car sales who purchase shoddy clocked cars off the side of the road in England and sell them onto 17 yr old 'boy racer' type who dont know any better.

Sizzler

Repolho wrote: »

He got badly caught out at one stage when he gave the example of a new car dropping €10k in price from €40k to €30k. He then went on to say that the 2 year old version had droped from €22k to €12k. He had to back track a bit then when Dan Boyle told him there was no effect on the consumer trading in there and that the gov were the only ones to loose out!

Or in the case of a Renault, €22k to €2K lol

smash

kbannon wrote: »

No they aren't!
1.) Dealers don't want trade-ins because nothing is really selling - new or old.
2.) the collapse in vehicle sales has resulted in lost income. The motor tax & VRT changes didn't cause this in a major way (they did obviously have an effect). The economic downturn (starting about the time that the price of oil went through the roof) IMO was the main culprit! That's why cars aren't selling on a global basis - its not just happening in Ireland!

Every car on the market, new and old has been affected by the new tax systems and it has a major part to play in trade-ins.

Bill wasn't talking about the loss of sales, he was talking about the loss of income on what has been sold, like an average of 10k VRT on nearly every BMW, this has amounted up to hundreds of millions so far that the government would have in their pockets if these changes hadn't been brought in.

kbannon wrote: »

Whilst they don't give a rats ass what kind of bandings Ireland puts in place, manufacturers aren't going as fast as we possibly need to. However, part of the tax changes was to encourage people against buying a big thirsty 760Li in favour of a small "eco friently" Honda or whatever..

Well I don't see them leading by example when they're buying state cars! That'd be a good place to start don't you think instead of forcing the public to do something.

Drummerboy08

Saab Ed wrote: »

but where do you get it....thats my problem

Thats the million dollar question. We have stuff coming back to us every week with high mileage, but may only be a 06. We have a Passat outside at the minute with 170,000kms on it, and while nobody has bought it yet, i reckon it will go fairly quick. Likewise, we had two 05 Mondeo TDCi's with fairly high mileage last week, and they were sold within two hours of landing.

The best stuff thats selling at the minute is the cheap, small and cheerful. Always keep in mind, that no matter how bad finances seem to be at the minute, the Irish public will always have an eye for a bargain. Always.

Saab Ed

:rolleyes: sure they all fly ..... Speaking of which didnt 1000's of Greeneys fly off to some island in the Indian ocean late last year just to have a confrence

partyguinness

Anyone want to buy a black..2006 BMW 320 Diesel Coupe..41k miles:o

Sizzler

steve06 wrote: »

Every car on the market, new and old has been affected by the new tax systems and it has a major part to play in trade-ins.

Bill wasn't talking about the loss of sales, he was talking about the loss of income on what has been sold, like an average of 10k VRT on nearly every BMW, this has amounted up to hundreds of millions so far that the government would have in their pockets if these changes hadn't been brought in.

Whilst I see his point there and you echoing it the fact remains that people can't afford the BMW now at 32k so how the fook can they be expected to pay the 42k he was banging on about "Lost" revenue my hoop. He was banging on about 15 BILLION going down the tubes, crazy stuff. He had the sums done on the back of a fag packet I'd say He only embarrassed himself yesterday, even further if that was possible. If this is the bastion of the car industry then god help them is all I can say :eek:

Groundhog day for him all over again, he bought the Renault franchise c.20 years ago for £1, he'd be lucky to get the equivalent of that now for this Glencullen Group the way things are going :P

robbie99

Saab Ed wrote: »

2) If they were going to change the VRT and tax system then why didnt they just do it going forward. If somebody bought a new VW Passat here in 2004 they paid a very high level of VRT and still pay a very high level of motor tax ,that same person is now double punished because someone can go to the UK and bring back a Passat at a much relative lower level of VRT and a vast difference in the motor tax due. Now which car do you think someone wants to buy again in a couple of years? Makes the one on the old system almost sale proof.

I agree that the now lower level of VRT punishes existing owners of 2004 cars but imported 2004 cars still pay the old cc based motor tax so for motor tax this is done on a 'going forward' basis.

Sizzler

He seems to have this whole car business down to a tee !

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5683880.ece

wrote:

Cullen also lost money on his Renault business in its last full year of trading before the French car manufacturer took back control of the Irish franchise. Glencullen Holdings lost €3.6m in 2006, despite making a profit of €4.6m the previous year. The businessman had owned the franchise for the company since 1986, when he paid IR£1 (€1.27) to secure the Irish dealerships. He still owns six dealerships around the country — three in Dublin.

Saab Ed

Sizzler wrote: »

He seems to have this whole car business down to a tee !

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5683880.ece

Me thinks this has nothing to do with The Green Party versus the motortrade and more to do with your disliking for the Good doctor

"Lets get this right Cullen is a clown. He's only on The Apprentice as they couldnt get anybody else of credibility to do the show. For anybody who watched it they will know appreciate how clueless this guy is. He reminds me of Grandpa Simpson wearing Just For Men."

taken from this thread : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055559745

galwaytt

ned78 wrote: »

Well, they did anyway. The cash seems to be flowing a little more from banks in recent times again.

....mmm, we've had 6 orders cancelled in recent times over non-availability of Bank Finance, so I hope you're right......:(

Stevie Dakota

Saab Ed wrote: »

"Lets get this right Cullen is a clown. He's only on The Apprentice as they couldnt get anybody else of credibility to do the show. For anybody who watched it they will know appreciate how clueless this guy is. He reminds me of Grandpa Simpson wearing Just For Men."

taken from this thread : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055559745

I have it on good authority from a friend who used to work for Bill Cullen that he was clueless and a bit of a joke to work for. Having seen him on the Late Late I am inclined to agree.

Sizzler

Saab Ed wrote: »

Me thinks this has nothing to do with The Green Party versus the motortrade and more to do with your disliking for the Good doctor

"Lets get this right Cullen is a clown. He's only on The Apprentice as they couldnt get anybody else of credibility to do the show.

Stay on topic please

"The Good Dr." LOL.

In fairness, I think thats fair comment on The Apprentice but the Times article speaks for itself. I just dont like the preachyness of said charachter when theres nowt of substance to back it up.

I don't like Mick O'Leary but you have to admire the man.

niceirishfella

CarCity wrote: »

The reality is that all prices and wages need to come down..

Agreed.

niceirishfella

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The best stuff thats selling at the minute is the cheap, small and cheerful. Always keep in mind, that no matter how bad finances seem to be at the minute, the Irish public will always have an eye for a bargain. Always.

Completely agree. Sub 6k stuff is flying.:)

Saab Ed

niceirishfella wrote: »

Completely agree. Sub 6k stuff is flying.:)

Under €200 a month for 3 years from the credit union, thats why

Anan1

IMO, €6,000 ish was always a sweet spot for used cars - it just keeps getting sweeter!