Football Writers Player of the Year...

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

The he had an absolute horror show in arguably his biggest game of the season,

Maybe Liverpools biggest game this season, certainly not the Serbians.

Mr Alan

i was expecting that boggles, predictable :rolleyes:

you know how big a game that was & it was certainly the biggest game of the season at that point. granted there have been bigger since.

Hobart

ShooterSF wrote: »

How many is many many? I went back to 70's and missed Nichol but didn't see any other defender. Thats 1 in near 40 years. It's hardly many many. Defenders do often get overlooked for awards and your comment is as much if not more of an over-exaggeration as boggles was.

I dunno, did Neville Southhall not win it? Pat Jennings? Frank McLintock? Dave MacKay, Tony Brook? And all those within my life time.

deisedevil

Mr Alan wrote: »

its so funny how much rival fans try to belittle gerrard & what he does year in, year out. he will rightly be remembered as one of the greatest players ever to play the game in England, like it or lump it lads.

Sort of like Alan Shearer, one of the greatest English players to play the game but at least Shearer will have won a league title.

All credit to Gerrard, had a great season again and no one can take that away from him.

Mr Alan

deisedevil wrote: »

Sort of like Alan Shearer, one of the greatest English players to play the game but at least Shearer will have won a league title..

this is the sort of ****e that makes this forum such a pain in the hole at times.

deisedevil wrote: »

All credit to Gerrard, had a great season again and no one can take that away from him.

won't stop some rival fans trying though.

deisedevil

Mr Alan wrote: »

this is the sort of ****e that makes this forum such a pain in the hole at times.



won't stop some rival fans trying though.

It's true though, he's running out of years and if he doesn't win a league with Liverpool it will take the shine off of anything else he has done because that will always be hanging over him.

Mr Alan

I think he'll win one tbh. So does he. People can see the progress Liverpool are making.

Rival fans will try to knock it obviously, but there is reason to be hopeful in the next 6/7 years Liverpool will win a league. Look how close it was/is this year.

But winning it or not shouldn't affect how he is judged as a player. Zola never won a league title at Chelsea, LeTissier, Kinkladze etc etc etc

Loomis

Hobart wrote: »

I dunno, did Neville Southhall not win it? Pat Jennings? Frank McLintock? Dave MacKay, Tony Brook? And all those within my life time.

Here's a stat for you:

Pat Jennings = goal keeper
Neville Southall = goal keeper
goal keeper != defender

:rolleyes:

A goal keeper is more likely to win it because they can be remembered for fantastic saves, penalty stops etc. Defenders are rarely cited for their sliding tackle by the corner flag.

Dave MacKay and Tony Book (you misspelled this as Brook btw) were joint winners in 1969. Makes your list a little shorter since they're not individual winners.
Defenders winning the award goes 1969, 1971, 1989, blank. Not helping your point much really.
You can argue all you want. It's blindingly apparent to anyone not being deliberately antagonistic that defenders are rarely considered for such awards.

Boggles

Simply Gerrard was nowhere near the best player in the league this year IMO.

His stats are higher but comparable to Berbatovs who has been widely regarded as a flop.

Vidic should have scooped both awards, he has been the best player in the league playing for the best team in the leauge, and it really just shows these awards for the sideshow they are.

I'd bet my back teeth if Vidic was English it would be a completely different story.

citytillidie

Mr Alan wrote: »

I think he'll win one tbh. So does he. People can see the progress Liverpool are making.

Rival fans will try to knock it obviously, but there is reason to be hopeful in the next 6/7 years Liverpool will win a league. Look how close it was/is this year.

But winning it or not shouldn't affect how he is judged as a player. Zola never won a league title at Chelsea, LeTissier, Kinkladze etc etc etc

Just say Liverpool do win the league that will leave two players in the whole of England in recent times with a full set of WINNERS medals for all Domistic and European compitions at club level they can win.

Stevie G and Carra.

deisedevil

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Here's a stat for you:

Pat Jennings = goal keeper
Neville Southall = goal keeper
goal keeper != defender

:rolleyes:

A goal keeper is more likely to win it because they can be remembered for fantastic saves, penalty stops etc. Defenders are rarely cited for their sliding tackle by the corner flag.

Dave MacKay and Tony Book (you misspelled this as Brook btw) were joint winners in 1969. Makes your list a little shorter since they're not individual winners.
Defenders winning the award goes 1969, 1971, 1989, blank. Not helping your point much really.
You can argue all you want. It's blindingly apparent to anyone not being deliberately antagonistic that defenders are rarely considered for such awards.

That's spot on!

Mr Alan

lol boggles
you're some legend

citytillidie

Boggles wrote: »

Simply Gerrard was nowhere near the best player in the league this year IMO.

His stats are higher but comparable to Berbatovs who has been widely regarded as a flop.

Vidic should have scooped both awards, he has been the best player in the league playing for the best team in the leauge, and it really just shows these awards for the sideshow they are.

I'd bet my back teeth if Vidic was English it would be a completely different story.

Sorry but that 1st line just made me laugh out loud, would you take off them Man Utd tinted glasses.

Vidic and Gerrard I say had equally good seasons, Gerrard did not get it because he is English he got it because forwards are always considered game winners with getting goals.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

lol boggles
you're some legend

So is Vidic!

dyl10

Mitch Connor wrote: »

well, no - i think you are missing a point somewhere or misunderstanding something. some judging panel didn't sit round and argue til they all agreed Giggs was 1st or 2nd or whatever. Each person (player or writer) voted for who they wanted to win it. the number of votes decided who won. All it means is that more journo's voted for Gerrard than Giggs; it doesn't explain the reasons for their choice. Your post seems a bit weird.

My misunderstanding, I thought it was decided by a panel of journalists.

On reflection, clearly sense prevailed in this award seeing as Gerrard claimed top spot.

Boggles

citytillidie wrote: »

Sorry but that 1st line just made me laugh out loud, would you take off them Man Utd tinted glasses.

It is just my opinion, Gerrard hasn't even been Liverpools best player this season.

Kuyt has.

citytillidie

kida wrote: »

Personally think to have someone who has been in trouble with the law given the award is a joke.

Nothing to do with football as was pointed out to me when i posted the link about Ledley King been arrested.

Who would you have gone for, since the most people here think Vidic should have won, why give an award to a player sent off twice in the season, with one of them been for leading with an elbow when going for a header.

Gerrard 0 Red Cards this season
Vidic 2 Red Cards this season

Frisbee

Where did Mikael Silvestre come? I can only assume fourth?

Gerrard deserved it this year imo, though neither Vidic or Lampard were far off.

Mr Alan

actually boggles, i'd say;

Gerrard/Alonso about the same followed by Torres/Kuyt who were about the same.

But what would i know.

RasTa

At least Gerrard will win something this season.

Personally for the clean sheet run it should have being Vidic.

purple_hatstand

You can use stats to prove anything you want.

Surely the point here is that in spite of vast improvements all round, Gerrard & Torres are still a long way ahead of their Liverpool team-mates in terms of ability, consistency of performance and overall contribution and Torres has clearly not played enough games this season to be considered. (Funny there's been little mention of Alonso in all this - he's been great this year as well.)

IMO, Man Utd have several players who have shown enough in terms of ability, consistency and contribution to be in the running for an award such as this and that's probably the reason why NONE of them has won it. Between Rooney, Ronaldo, Vidic etc.....the vote was maybe split. Gerrard, meanwhile, has been dragging players of lesser ability up to his standards and driving them (sometimes through sheer force of will) to the position they're in now every time he's played.

tinner777

Boggles wrote: »

I'd bet my back teeth if Vidic was English it would be a completely different story.

1998–99 David Ginola Tottenham Hotspur PPY
1999–00 Roy Keane Manchester United PPY
2000–01 Teddy Sheringham Manchester United PPY
2001–02 Robert Pirès Arsenal
2002–03 Thierry Henry Arsenal PPY, FPY
2003–04 Thierry Henry Arsenal PPY, FPY [16]
2004–05 Frank Lampard Chelsea FPY
2005–06 Thierry Henry Arsenal [17]
2006–07 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United PPY, FPY, YPY [18]
2007–08 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United PPY, FPY [19]
2008–09 Steven Gerrard Liverpool FPY

or maybe if vidic was French, Irish, etc...
I'll send round my dentist?

Fratton Fred

Boggles wrote: »

Simply Gerrard was nowhere near the best player in the league this year IMO.

His stats are higher but comparable to Berbatovs who has been widely regarded as a flop.

Vidic should have scooped both awards, he has been the best player in the league playing for the best team in the leauge, and it really just shows these awards for the sideshow they are.

I'd bet my back teeth if Vidic was English it would be a completely different story.

Stevie G is a worthy winner. He has a great season and has lead his team to be real challengers for the league.

Vidic is over rated in my opinion. sure he is good, but give me Ferdinand anyday. If Vidic played for anyone else other than Man u he would give away far more fouls, he just benefits from the Man u supporting referees.

Mitch Connor

citytillidie wrote: »

Just say Liverpool do win the league that will leave two players in the whole of England in recent times with a full set of WINNERS medals for all Domistic and European compitions at club level they can win.

Stevie G and Carra.

They don't have world champion medals though:P

RasTa

citytillidie wrote: »

Just say Liverpool do win the league that will leave two players in the whole of England in recent times with a full set of WINNERS medals for all Domistic and European compitions at club level they can win.

Stevie G and Carra.

What does this prove anyway?

Hobart

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Here's a stat for you:

Pat Jennings = goal keeper
Neville Southall = goal keeper
goal keeper != defender

:rolleyes:

A goal keeper is more likely to win it because they can be remembered for fantastic saves, penalty stops etc. Defenders are rarely cited for their sliding tackle by the corner flag.

Dave MacKay and Tony Book (you misspelled this as Brook btw) were joint winners in 1969. Makes your list a little shorter since they're not individual winners.
Defenders winning the award goes 1969, 1971, 1989, blank. Not helping your point much really.
You can argue all you want. It's blindingly apparent to anyone not being deliberately antagonistic that defenders are rarely considered for such awards.

Fair point, but they are part of the "Defense" per-se. Anyhow, there are plenty of other defenders (in the true sense of the word) to back up my point, which was in countering the lie that "Football writers never give the award to a defender" , in fact Steve Nichol seemed to dispel that nugget of disinformation.

The fact that two winners, were joint winners, is pure fuddle. They won, were defenders, full stop.

As for defenders not being or rarely being "considered" for such awards, are you saying that Vidic was not considered this year? When was the last time a defender was not considered for this award, as you seem to have a very large amount of inside knowledge on the process.

Unearthly

citytillidie wrote: »

Just say Liverpool do win the league that will leave two players in the whole of England in recent times with a full set of WINNERS medals for all Domistic and European compitions at club level they can win.

Stevie G and Carra.

Of course for players like Gary Neville, Wes Brown, and Paul Scholes it wasn't because they weren't good enough to win the uefa cup, it was because their team was too good to play in the uefa cup, and don't include the super cup. That's a european community shield.

Hobart

Boggles wrote: »

Simply Gerrard was nowhere near the best player in the league this year IMO.

His stats are higher but comparable to Berbatovs who has been widely regarded as a flop.

Vidic should have scooped both awards, he has been the best player in the league playing for the best team in the leauge, and it really just shows these awards for the sideshow they are.

I'd bet my back teeth if Vidic was English it would be a completely different story.

English writers involved in Serbian Racist shocker!! War moves from Afghanistan back to the Balkans. I presume your tongue is firmly in your cheek on that one?

Frisbee

Fratton Fred wrote: »

he just benefits from the Man u supporting referees.

I love when threads devolve into United vs. Liverpool rows because there is inevitably someone who comes up with a gem like this.
Then respond with the facts to prove it.

One team in the league has to have more decisions go their way than the other teams. Unless the referees work together to make sure every team gets the same amount of penalties it will always happen. Simple as.

eagle eye

Yeah Gerard seems like a good choice to me.

I have to say though that Giggs being in line for that award astonishes me. What has Wayne Rooney done to people? The guy has been magnificent for the last couple of years. Ronaldo scored a sick amount of goals last season and everyone lauded him for it, but Rooney imo was United's player of the season last year. This year Vidic looked like he was finally getting recognitions for his awesome performances at the back and he does not even get a mention there, Rooney yet again has been awesome, yet Giggs wins one and is runner-up in the other. I just don't know what to make of it.

In fairness though Steven Gerard has been fantastic this season. Well deserved imo. Liverpool finally win something.

Mitch Connor

Unearthly wrote: »

Of course for players like Gary Neville, Wes Brown, and Paul Scholes it wasn't because they weren't good enough to win the uefa cup, it was because their team was too good to play in the uefa cup, and don't include the super cup. That's a european community shield.

we played, and failed miserably in the uefa cup in 95/96 - lost to Rota Voldergrad or something like that.... Scholes, Giggs and Neville could have got medals from it that season.

Hobart

eagle eye wrote: »

This year Vidic looked like he was finally getting recognitions for his awesome performances at the back and he does not even get a mention there, Rooney yet again has been awesome, yet Giggs wins one and is runner-up in the other. I just don't know what to make of it.

Giggs has been given 1 award and runner up in another because of nostalgia, simple as. I'm not saying that he has not been a great player for Manu over the years, he has (and then some). But the awards he has been given this year are a nod back to his career, and in no way represent his form this season, which has been bad to start with, mediocre in the middle of the season, and promising towards the end of it, nothing better.

Unearthly

Mitch Connor wrote: »

we played, and failed miserably in the uefa cup in 95/96 - lost to Rota Voldergrad or something like that.... Scholes, Giggs and Neville could have got medals from it that season.

pwned:(

Mitch Connor

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah Gerard seems like a good choice to me.

I have to say though that Giggs being in line for that award astonishes me. What has Wayne Rooney done to people? The guy has been magnificent for the last couple of years. Ronaldo scored a sick amount of goals last season and everyone lauded him for it, but Rooney imo was United's player of the season last year. This year Vidic looked like he was finally getting recognitions for his awesome performances at the back and he does not even get a mention there, Rooney yet again has been awesome, yet Giggs wins one and is runner-up in the other. I just don't know what to make of it.

In fairness though Steven Gerard has been fantastic this season. Well deserved imo. Liverpool finally win something.

There is a sentimental response to Giggs' performance this season. I don't see why anyone is surprised to see him there in the FWA shake up; it was the media driving his push for the PFA award in the first place imo.

As for Vidic, i think it is exactly as Mr. Alan said, he early season form was only ok/good and while he had a stunning patch of form (which imo he is back to now) his lack of form against Blackburn, Inter, Liverpool, Fulham, Villa and Sunderland has probably cost him.

Loomis

Hobart wrote: »

Fair point, but they are part of the "Defense" per-se. Anyhow, there are plenty of other defenders (in the true sense of the word) to back up my point, which was in countering the lie that "Football writers never give the award to a defender" , in fact Steve Nichol seemed to dispel that nugget of disinformation.

The fact that two winners, were joint winners, is pure fuddle. They won, were defenders, full stop.

As for defenders not being or rarely being "considered" for such awards, are you saying that Vidic was not considered this year? When was the last time a defender was not considered for this award, as you seem to have a very large amount of inside knowledge on the process.

Midfielders are part of the defense too, per-se, and part of the attack, per-se. Seriously, man, thin. Transparent.

You seem to be missing the points people are making, innocently I'm sure, so I'll clarify. The point of the joint winners was not that they did not win. It was that a defender won that year. It doesn't add to the number of defenders who won per year.

:rolleyes: By considered I meant actually winning it. Sigh.

And no, there are not plenty of pure defenders to win it. In 60 years there have been about 10 winners. You can go and count those to make sure cause I may be off by one either side. But I'm sure you may well enjoy such a task.

deisedevil

Frisbee wrote: »

I love when threads devolve into United vs. Liverpool rows because there is inevitably someone who comes up with a gem like this.
Then respond with the facts to prove it.

One team in the league has to have more decisions go their way than the other teams. Unless the referees work together to make sure every team gets the same amount of penalties it will always happen. Simple as.

And United have had only 4 penalties this season, not exactly a huge show of favouritism is it.

Hobart

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Midfielders are part of the defense too, per-se, and part of the attack, per-se. Seriously, man, thin. Transparent.

I thought I accepted your point above, when I said "Fair point", but keep on making it sure.

You seem to be missing the points people are making, innocently I'm sure, so I'll clarify. The point of the joint winners was not that they did not win. It was that a defender won that year. It doesn't add to the number of defenders who won per year.

I'm not actually missing the point, I thought I made my point in response to Boggles when he claimed that defenders never win this.

:rolleyes: By considered I meant actually winning it. Sigh.

Sure you did. Maybe in future it might be better to use the terminology you mean, as opposed to the terminology you expect me to garner from your words.

And no, there are not plenty of pure defenders to win it. In 60 years there have been about 10 winners. You can go and count those to make sure cause I may be off by one either side. But I'm sure you may well enjoy such a task.

Ok, you're correct (and I haven't counted them as I'm heading out for a game of golf at the mo) I'll take your word for it. In the 60 (odd) years of this award being given to players, there have not been plenty of defenders considered (or winning for that matter) this award. In all of this sixty years, the proportion of Defenders to Goalkeepers, Midfielders And Attackers, has been a lowly 17%. I stand corrected (bows head in shame).

citytillidie

Unearthly wrote: »

Of course for players like Gary Neville, Wes Brown, and Paul Scholes it wasn't because they weren't good enough to win the uefa cup, it was because their team was too good to play in the uefa cup, and don't include the super cup. That's a european community shield.

Your right that season when they were knocked out at the group stage of the Champions league they were not even good enough to finish 3rd in the group and play in the UEFA Cup.

Mitch Connor

citytillidie wrote: »

Your right that season when they were knocked out at the group stage of the Champions league they were not even good enough to finish 3rd in the group and play in the UEFA Cup.

just because I find that post so annoying (true, but annoying) i'll have to correct you. You're = you are.

Liam O

citytillidie wrote: »

Your right that season when they were knocked out at the group stage of the Champions league they were not even good enough to finish 3rd in the group and play in the UEFA Cup.

With another CL and maybe another coming up I'm sure they'll be able to live with that. Maybe Giggs can lend Gerrard a medal or 2 so he can feel what it's like to be a champion.

Mr Alan

Liam O wrote: »

With another CL and maybe another coming up I'm sure they'll be able to live with that. Maybe Giggs can lend Gerrard a medal or 2 so he can feel what it's like to be a champion.

I definately have my nomination for best newcomer at this years soccer forum award picked already.

PHB

I coulda sworn I saw Gerrard lift the Champions League Trophy.

Ah I'm getting old, the memories failing me.

Mr Alan

must have missed that night myself too PHB. or maybe i too am getting old (though not near as old as you)

Dcully

Liam O wrote: »

With another CL and maybe another coming up I'm sure they'll be able to live with that. Maybe Giggs can lend Gerrard a medal or 2 so he can feel what it's like to be a champion.

Dear Lord ive seen some ridiculous posts from you the last while but this takes the biscuit - what age are you 12?

Well deserved Gerrard,id have Rooney 2nd and Vidic 3rd.
All 3 have been outstanding.

grames_bond

well deserved this year, gerrard has been immence and got pulled performances out of the bag when they were vitally needed! i htink vidic should be minimum second (joint winner would have been nice) but no one can begrudge gerard this season....he has been outstanding!