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Double Standards

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  • 13-05-2009 10:38am
    #1
    loctite
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭


    I am just repeating a question that has already been asked on this thread and was not answered.

    Are there guidlines for how Mods should moderate?

    I feel there is a complete double standard here(refer to DCU's threads - "the Library" & "that poxy Grounds keeper").

    The library thread was shut down for good reason.
    But yet, when a similar thread is started regarding another member of DCU staff it is allowed to continue where there is active involvement from the mods in issuing their opinions on the issue.

    There is nothing wrong with Mods issuing their opinions, but where a Mod takes a thread off topic and allows it to continue, or begins talking about topics which are not alligned to charter....

    This is a blatent double standard, and for a Mod to close thread at their own discretion is again enforcing such.

    Anyway if there is any info on the above question I would greatly appreciate it.:)


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    #2
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Can you provide links to what you're referring to?

    Have you discussed your concerns with the moderator via PM?


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    #3
    loctite
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭loctite


    Again asking the question. Are there guidlines that Moderators must adhere to?

    No, I have not contacted the Moderators directly.

    I'm only relatively new to Boards. Just feel that threads are being closed off arbitrarily and unfairly.

    Links to threads

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055552894
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055550058


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    #4
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    loctite wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055552894

    That thread should have been closed straight away.
    You cannot post a thread on this site picking on an individual who can clearly be recognised.
    Instead the thread was allowed to continue for two pages, decending into crap.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055550058

    This thread is not closed. But I'm going to close in right now.
    Again, it is discussing someone who can be clearly recognised.
    Not on and I will be having a word with the Moderater on this. They are clearly being too lenient.

    Thank you for bringing this to my attention.


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    #5
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    loctite wrote: »
    Again asking the question. Are there guidlines that Moderators must adhere to?
    No, not really. They are subject to the same rules as everyone else on the site, and their role as moderators is to basically keep the place tidy.

    We are working on a rough guidelines on what it is moderators do and how they should do it, but by no means will it be a stick which can be used to beat moderators with. Dynamics change and new situations present themselves, so moderators need to be allowed the flexibility to use their own judgement instead of having to refer to a set of rules on how they should react to a given set of circumstances.

    On the issue in question, you can't see a whole litany of deleted posts which were basically tit-for-tat arguments, not related to the post in question at all. From what I can tell, the thread wasn't locked because it was talking about a member of staff, it was locked because people kept dragging it off topic and it was causing a lot of work for the mod.

    In future if you're curious as to why a thread was (or wasn't) locked, a quick PM to the mod should reveal all. If it's not instantly obvious, that means there's usually some backstory or other information which you're unaware of.


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    #6
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Way to contradict me, Ber. :p


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    #7
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    seamus wrote: »
    Way to contradict me, Ber. :p

    I don't see where?
    Compliment you more like. :)

    I have sent a PM to both Mods and asked them to delete any further threads discussing recognisable people.
    I have also instructed them to infract and or ban anyone who sets up such threads.


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    #8
    loctite
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭loctite


    seamus wrote: »
    We are working on a rough guidelines on what it is moderators do and how they should do it, but by no means will it be a stick which can be used to beat moderators with. Dynamics change and new situations present themselves, so moderators need to be allowed the flexibility to use their own judgement instead of having to refer to a set of rules on how they should react to a given set of circumstances.

    Thanks very much for the reply....
    Question answered.

    But I think there are ethical issues at play here. You are allowing Mods own value judgements to supercede the opinions and values of others. Totally agree that the threads should be closed, but not at the discretion of the Mods. If rules are breached, fine.

    I totally agree that you cannot "legislate" for everything, but I have to disagree that any such rules would be used to "beat" mods with. If a registered user breaks the rules, they are warned/repramanded. If a mod does it.... well they keep moderating (until Ber catches up with em). There has to be guidlines available so that if there is an abuse of the mods position that they can be held to account by all users.



    thanks again:)


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    #9
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    loctite wrote: »
    Totally agree that the threads should be closed, but not at the discretion of the Mods.

    Of course threads can be closed/deleted at the decretion of the Mods.
    Rules cannot possibly cover every eventually.
    If a mod does it.... well they keep moderating (until Ber catches up with em). There has to be guidlines available so that if there is an abuse of the mods position that they can be held to account by all users.

    I'm not seeing where the mods abused their position, could you explain that please?


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    #10
    loctite
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭loctite


    loctite wrote: »
    If a registered user breaks the rules, they are warned/repramanded. If a mod does it.... well they keep moderating (until Ber catches up with em). There has to be guidlines available so that if there is an abuse of the mods position that they can be held to account by all users.

    thanks again:)

    I didn't say they had.... We are going to go around in circles here I think.

    If a mod is making unfair or should we say remarks that are of a standard sub par to boards or taking threads of topic it is his/her choice to close them. So in effect, the moderators moderate themselves.

    There was definitely one comment in the thread linked above (the groundskeeper one), i cannot quote it as the thread has been removed, But basically accusing DCU students of being "messy bastards". A gross generalisation. It is not targeting any one individual perse but is targetting a group of people, which is just as bad.

    This comment was made by a moderator. Now I think it is a bit rich that a Mod can tell any reistered user to act one way and restrict their access to this site/threads, and yet they can make such comments but go "unregulated". Furthermore, if any user (Mod or otherwise) is repramanded it should not be on a discretionary basis. There should be regulations set out to cover this. I've just being reading another thread on this page (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055561046) where a user has had to plead to regain access to a thread. I'm sorry guys/gals... this is extremely unequitable.


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    #11
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    loctite wrote: »
    Now I think it is a bit rich that a Mod can tell any reistered user to act one way and restrict their access to this site/threads, and yet they can make such comments but go "unregulated". Furthermore, if any user (Mod or otherwise) is repramanded it should not be on a discretionary basis.

    Unless you give me examples of what it is you are talking about, there is nothing to discuss here.
    I've just being reading another thread on this page (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055561046) where a user has had to plead to regain access to a thread. I'm sorry guys/gals... this is extremely unequitable.

    Too bad. This is how our site is run.
    That user behaved badly, he was permabanned. We had a discussion and decided to give him one last chance.
    That thread has nothing to do with this discussion.


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    #12
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Aha, I see your disconnect here.

    Moderators are only moderators within their forums. Outside of their forums, they are normal users and are subject to the same rules as everyone else. The moderator who made the "messy bastards" comment was not a moderator on that forum.

    At the bottom-left of every post, you'll see a "Report post" button. If you see something which you feel requires attention, whether or not a moderator said it, then you can report it there.

    Users will always be reprimanded on a discretionary basis, but generally within the guidelines of the charter, which sets out the general rules for forum. Every forum has a charter.


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    #13
    loctite
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭loctite


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    Unless you give me examples of what it is you are talking about, there is nothing to discuss here.


    that thread has nothing to do with this discussion.

    Can't give you the example...you just deleted the thread. As stated already The thread was "that poxy groundskeeper" and the link is above. I had already given you the link.

    The latter point has everything to do with this discussion. Mod discretion supercedes rules. There are rules on a charter, you breach, you receive warnings/punishments. Mods can overturn or enforce at will. There is no transparancey. If he had acted in a fashion which was against the charter well ban him.

    This is a waste of time trying to argue a point like this. The tone of responses here is purely defensive... My intention is not attack the mods. This is a great site, Mods do a great job, but there is a two tier system in place here and can no-one not recognise the potential conflict or abuse?


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    #14
    loctite
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭loctite


    Seamus thanks for that...


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    #15
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    loctite wrote: »
    can no-one not recognise the potential conflict or abuse?

    If abuse is brought to our attention, we deal with it.


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    #16
    loctite
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭loctite


    ha ha ha...... (not laughing that you'll deal with it... just the goin around in circles bit)

    ok thanks everyone


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