query re bull

banjobongo

hi guys
Im not a farmer!
I live in the countryside and the local farmer has a field behind my house. there are usually cows in this field during the sumemr months. He sometimes has a bull there too. Our fence is not very strong and altho its supposed to be electrified and I dont think he usually bothers with this.
I have my kids playing all the time in our back garden.
Now, my query is, is this a safe situation?
Last evening we were all in the back garden and the bull rushed over to just beside the fence and was making very agressive sounds.
He could get thru that fence very easliy if he wanted to.
Before I conctact the farmer directly, is this considered good practise to have a bull in the field with a house/kids just beside it?
Also, if there is a bull in the field, who is responsible for having a strong fence, the farmer or the homeowner?
thanks in advance for any feedback!

adne

banjobongo wrote: »

who is responsible for having a strong fence, the farmer or the homeowner?
thanks in advance for any feedback!

Its up to both of ye to come to an agreement on the boundary fence.
Go halves and get a proper fence in place. Ye both benefit from it.

CJhaughey

Who put up the fence You or the farmer?
If you are worried about the Bull breaking through speak to the farmer and see what he thinks about going 50/50 on a stronger fence.
Or perhaps maybe just ask him if the fence is turned on?
We often have a Bull in the field beside us and have never had hassle.
If it is for your own peace of mind, I would just pay to have a fencer fence off your property, Fencing small runs isn't that dear, €4 per metre for Fox wire and a single top strand from memory.

reilig

I agree with both of the above posters. An electric fence is sufficient to keep a bull in place. Maybe an idea would be to contact the farmer politely and ask him if the fence is electrified and voice your concerns for your children's safety. Don't start an arguement, just ask him if he thinks it is safe. It might encourage him to ensure that the fence is electrified.

fastrac

If your site was bought out of a farm chances are its your responsibility to fence it. Any responsible farmer will not want a bull loose so an agreement should be easy enough to achieve.

irish_bob

cant believe some of the responses being posted here , the sole responsibility here lies with the farmer with regard preventing cows , bulls , sheep or anyother animal the farmer owns from breaking through a fence

cut and dried and dont be listening to oul cute hoorism OP about going halves on a fencer , the authorities will come down hard if they hear the word , CHILDREN and loose BULL in the one sentence and it wont be on the mum and dad with the kids

adne

irish_bob wrote: »

cant believe some of the responses being posted here , the sole responsibility here lies with the farmer with regard preventing cows , bulls , sheep or anyother animal the farmer owns from breaking through a fence

cut and dried and dont be listening to oul cute hoorism about going halves on a fencer , the authorities will come down hard if they hear the word , CHILDREN and loose BULL in the one sentence and it wont be on the mum and dad with the kids

Your Neighbours must love you Irish Bob .. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Its a boundary fence that benefits both parties hence 50% liability a piece.
Define a poor fence ??
The Farmer (If Awkward could claim the current fence is sufficient)

irish_bob

adne wrote: »

Your Neighbours must love you Irish Bob .. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Its a boundary fence that benefits both parties hence 50% liability a piece.
Define a poor fence ??
The Farmer (If Awkward could claim the current fence is sufficient)

untill the OP,s kids start breaking out through the fence to the cattle or frightening the cattle , thier is no 50-50

the onus is not on whoevers property is being encorached upon and as i said earlier , when kids safety is in question , all other claims , views are over ridden , its an open and shut case
i dont think farmers should unconditionally support other farmers , while not a full time farmer , presently ( lost my job ) im helping out on my brothers farm , i dont go out of my way to be awkward with neighbours , i believe the OP has no responsibility to fence out her neighbours cattle and bull

Sam Kade

By this it's the owner of the house is responsible for the fence.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=102645

pakalasa

If you want to check that the fence is electrified get a leafy bit of grass about 4 inches long and lay the tip on the wire. Move in along until you can feel the shock. If you get right in and no shock then it must be turned off.
You can pee on it also but that hurts...........:D

staker

I grew up on a farm OP, and had to regularly walk farms counting herds.
A tip my father always gave me,never disturb cattle,especially bulls near dusk.
Apparently it's when they're at their randiest:o and can become quite aggressive.
Regarding the fence,legally i'm not too sure,but I'd approach the farmer to see whether one could be erected jointly.
As another poster has said,a responsible farmer wouldn't put you in this situation,chances are,he's unaware!

kfk

Does the farmer have any fence there? The farmer is responsible for keeping his stock in his land. If he is in REPS or getting SFP then he is required to have an appropriate fence for his stock. I saw somewhere, according to the Dept Agri that an appropriate fence is one that keeps the farmers cattle in and keeps the neighbours cattle out!

Talk to the farmer and express your concerns. It would probably not cost that much if ye met half way and put up a good fence.

adne

irish_bob wrote: »

when kids safety is in question , all other claims , views are over ridden , its an open and shut case

If this went to a court, the court would first need to determine if the Kids safey is in question i.e Is the OP been over concerned. If a third party (The Court) believe the Kids safety is not not an issue but the OP still believes it is, the onus is on the OP to upgrade the fence. No such thing as an Open and Shut case until the problem has been analysed :p

irish_bob wrote: »

i believe the OP has no responsibility to fence out her neighbours cattle and bull

The OP is not fencing out the neighbours cattle and bull as they have not broke out, she / he is wondering who the onus it on as she does not feel the fence is sufficient. We cannot determine based on his / her post if the fence is adequate. However we can suggest that he / she shares the cost of upgrading the fence with the farmer as both parties will benefit from a new fence.

You do not seem to be a very rational thinker Irish_Bob. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

snowman707

The onus is on the farmer to keep keep his livestock from straying.


As well as risking penalties in reps & single farm payment inspections, some insurance companies may not pay out compo, in the event of a claim, if it is found that the boundaries were not properly maintained.

adne

snowman707 wrote: »

The onus is on the farmer to keep keep his livestock from straying.

The livestock are not straying. :D

cheapskate

Hi,

Seen as the animals have not broken out to date and that you are concerned for your childrens safety then for your own peace of mind fence it yourself on your own property.
As has been mentioned there are arguments both ways! You see a little grey strand stopping this massive bull from breaking through; the bull was probably tormented by the children playing and probably did a mock charge.
An electric fence is a psychological barrier as it works against the animals brain, remembering how it felt to get a 5000V shock (cattle are more sensitive to electric shock than people and considering cattle are curious and smell everything OMG can you imagine touching your nose off a mains fence)
So I would say the fence is adequate (or is it) as it has done the job BUT what if there is a break in supply or it fails or the animal runs straight through it in rage!! Not trying to scare you but if it's not single strand steel wire then this is possible!
For peace of mind Fence your own property with 3 or 4 strands of wire or Sheepwire and a single strand of barb wire on top, use quality Larch stakes to stand the test of time, this should last as the electric fence should keep the cattle from scratching off it.

Hope this helps,

CS

reilig

At the end of the day, you can go rushing into this head first, meet or call the farmer and tell him that his fence isn't adequate and demand that he make it stock proof.

Personally I am somewhat surprised by the responses of some so called farmers on this thread. There are a number of issues. Firstly, the farmer is not aware of your concerns regarding his fence. Secondly, you do not know if the fence is electrified or not (have you tested it?). Thirdly, and most importantly, this is your home and you will always have to live in it (unless you sell it) and the farmer's fiels will always be behind it, you will meet him regularly and have to interact with him on some occasions. What's the point in doing something irrational that may cause an argument between you and the farmer. From a personal point of view, as a farmer and if it were my land and bull, I would be accepting if you came to me and asked me about my fence. I would even check it to make sure that it was secure and electrified. I would also consider paying for or assisting to erect a more secure fence if it was of benefit to both of us.

As Fastrac said, any reasonable farmer will not want his bull to get loose, nor will he/she want to cause problems or fears for their neighbours. It should be easy to get a compromise that will benefit both parties.

Most farmers are approachable and will understand your concerns. But don't try to use bully tactics or start telling them what you believe the law is. Because as you see above, there appears to be many different versions of the law.

cheapskate

reilig wrote: »

At the end of the day, you can go rushing into this head first, meet or call the farmer and tell him that his fence isn't adequate and demand that he make it stock proof.

Personally I am somewhat surprised by the responses of some so called farmers on this thread. There are a number of issues. Firstly, the farmer is not aware of your concerns regarding his fence. Secondly, you do not know if the fence is electrified or not (have you tested it?). Thirdly, and most importantly, this is your home and you will always have to live in it (unless you sell it) and the farmer's fiels will always be behind it, you will meet him regularly and have to interact with him on some occasions. What's the point in doing something irrational that may cause an argument between you and the farmer. From a personal point of view, as a farmer and if it were my land and bull, I would be accepting if you came to me and asked me about my fence. I would even check it to make sure that it was secure and electrified. I would also consider paying for or assisting to erect a more secure fence if it was of benefit to both of us.

As Fastrac said, any reasonable farmer will not want his bull to get loose, nor will he/she want to cause problems or fears for their neighbours. It should be easy to get a compromise that will benefit both parties.

Most farmers are approachable and will understand your concerns. But don't try to use bully tactics or start telling them what you believe the law is. Because as you see above, there appears to be many different versions of the law.

I don't know about you but your last post seems to contradict itself i.e Read first and last paragraph!

None of us know the whole story apart from the thread starter, I would be very surprised if a single strand of fence is all that seperates a boundary!

If there are other households along which border the same field you could get others to share the costs, personally (as a home owner and Farmers son) I would fence my property for peace of mind and safety, the cost will not be that much and then if the fence is damaged by neighbouring stock, then you would have grounds to complain.

What is stoppping your children from wandering into the farmers field or coming into contact with the electric fence ( I know my nephew is afraid of electric fence for good reason )
Fence it Yourself (FIY)

CS

greysides

Cattle sometimes seem to get upset by the presence of children for some reason.

The onus is on the farmer to keep keep his livestock from straying.

At the moment it sounds as if there is nothing to stop the OP's 'livestock' from escaping.

Aside from sorting out a fence, may I suggest you consider planting a hedge inside your boundary both as a deterent to kids 'breaking out' and as a 'blind' to livestock.

reilig

cheapskate wrote: »

I don't know about you but your last post seems to contradict itself i.e Read first and last paragraph!

None of us know the whole story apart from the thread starter, I would be very surprised if a single strand of fence is all that seperates a boundary!

If there are other households along which border the same field you could get others to share the costs, personally (as a home owner and Farmers son) I would fence my property for peace of mind and safety, the cost will not be that much and then if the fence is damaged by neighbouring stock, then you would have grounds to complain.

What is stoppping your children from wandering into the farmers field or coming into contact with the electric fence ( I know my nephew is afraid of electric fence for good reason )
Fence it Yourself (FIY)

CS

But my point in the above post was that to avoid tensions with the farmer, its probably best to consult him before you go putting up a fence - maybe he/she will even contribute to the cost of the fence. Other people appeared to be advising the OP to have it out with the farmer. I was just trying to save some agro for both parties.

Dusty87

The op never said it was a single strand wire fence. Also i do small bit of farming but i keep dog and other animals well locked up because i know if they do get out and cause harm it wil be my fault and at my expense. But as was said his cattle did not break out and fence did its job so far. I think if you did call to farmer he would have no problems checking the fence for you.