Fianna Fail F**ked ? ! ?

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote: »

They are NOT affected by the current downturn.

How are they avoiding paying the levies, the increased taxes. Maybe they have no use for the health or education sectors. Well done on finding such a rarity in this country!

Pedro K

ninty9er wrote: »

I was out canvassing tonight, and got some abuse and some very warm welcomes, because even though many people have short memories and don't remember how much their standard of living has improved over the last 10 years, there are those that do and those that realise that a party is something to which people affiliate, but don't always agree with.

The standard of living improved because the economy grew on a sand pit.
The government had money to piss away, and piss away they did.
Now they're saying we can all expect a 10% cut in standard of living?
That's a lot easier to handle with a 100k salary with benefits.

I will politely be telling any FF's at the door not to waste their time on me, and canvass someone who might actually vote for them.

The current government are a joke. Their budget at the end of 08 was a joke, their emergency budget this year was a joke. They want to stimulate the economy, and somehow the best way to do this is by taking money off the people who can't afford it?

Our current government have turned us from the golden boy of europe into the laughing stock.

I just wish we were more like the French with regards to politics. Protest! Kick up stink! Throw the rattle out of the pram!

But we aren't...

Thus, our only hope of voicing our frustration at the current bunch of cowen clowns is the upcoming elections.

Call me ignorant if you want for adopting this stance, I don't care. My mind is made up. I will not under any circumstances be giving a single vote to FF.

Right now our government is ignorant of it's people.

EDIT:
also, Brian Cowen seems completely delusional and seems to think everyone is fully behind him. The only reason I'd stand behind him is to give him a kick up the arse.
Voting Fianna Fail would only feed his notion.

"And now, the end is near,
And so I face, the final curtain"

CorkFenian

ninty9er wrote: »

I canvassed a teacher lastnight who said that he had a job, and sure the levy isn't great, but it had to happen. His words, not mine.

I canvassed a woman who invited the candidate in to speak with her husband and son and he came out with 3 promised no.1 votes. They are NOT affected by the current downturn.

Talk about being out of touch, get out on the doorsteps if you want to find out what out of touch is. I accept that some people are galled, but in an area where FF was never flavour of the month, I was surprised that there was only a reception like that at one door. Many people don't want our literature, but they're at least civil about it. But I'd rather they told us what exact situation has caused some of them to be visibly upset at the door. We're not knocking on doors just to ask for votes, we're knocking on doors to fix people's problems too.

So the teacher said they would vote FF no problem did they??As well as the couple??Let me guess..They said that FF had done a good job inspite of an unprecedented global economic downturn!

Redbilby

None of the above matters unless YOU VOTE..............over 40% of the population didnt bother last time so how can you whinge if the collective populace cant get off their arse and get to the polling booth?

Make the parties take notice by voting, protesting, writing to your local candidates, bombard them with stuff - maybe then you will get some sort of service out of a wholly overpaid and expensive system. Why do we need some many levels of Gov't anyway? How many TD's, Seanad members, County, City and Town Coucil members does this tiny country really need??? So over-governed and yet so uncared for when it gets down to the grassroots. Get out and VOTE!

Change will only come about when enough of the little people stand up together, not whinging but determined to see improvement, and demand their rights. Get rid of the dynastical approach to candidates and get some real people in, make them earn their keep and be accountable to their employers, US!

jmayo

ninty9er wrote: »

Mistakes have been made, but since other people (nobody on this thread) have put politics and soccer in the same bracket, you don't stop supporting a team because they're playing **** or badly managed, so when you join a party I have much more respect for you if you can stick with it and try to change it rather than give up like a complete loser and move on to the next crowd, a bit like a particular former Fianna Fáil member who was kicked out of FF, subsequently joined FG, where he was kicked out and is now some sort of "guru" at Libertas.

I was out canvassing tonight, and got some abuse and some very warm welcomes, because even though many people have short memories and don't remember how much their standard of living has improved over the last 10 years, there are those that do and those that realise that a party is something to which people affiliate, but don't always agree with.

Just because you've been made redundant, doesn't mean the entire road has, and just because the economic situation is affecting you doesn't mean that it's affecting everyone, so when I go to a door and ask people if they have any issues, it shows complete ignorance on their part if the answer is "you're canvassing for the wrong party". Why am I canvassing for the wrong party, and more to the point, considering I'm the only person that's knocked on the door instead of dumping a leaflet in, tell me what is affecting YOU. "you know damn well" isn't a good answer, and it tells me nothing I can pass to the candidate, who is more than likely with me anyway, which would enable him or her to help you.

Politics is about serving people, and from what I heard on the doorsteps tonight, soem people are dissatisfied with how things are going in general in the economy, but the vast majority of people are getting on with their lives and it's still as irrelevant to them as it's always been who is in government.

"Mistakes have been made" has to be the understatement of the year.

I suppsoe it could be worse, we could have declared war on the US and harboured Al Queida

So you are not using the canvassing system I saw the other night.
Using young canvassers mainly becuase they quickly tap on door leave leaflet and move on.
I thought the they were in training for the mini marathon.
In a cull-de-sac of 8 houses they avoided speaking to anyone in all but two.
Nice going.
Labour canvassers were two old guys who waited and stopped to chat.

So you managed to meet someone that has not being affected.
Well holy God, they mustn't smoke, have kids, or ever had a job :rolleyes:

Yeah politics used to be about serving people, all of the people, and not just the party supporters and hangers on :rolleyes:

You know how your candidates and yourself can help me ?
Go away and never come back

ninty9er wrote: »

I canvassed a teacher lastnight who said that he had a job, and sure the levy isn't great, but it had to happen. His words, not mine.

Woudl this be one of your teacher or teacher trainee friends that you quoted famously as knowing the real problem with education was lazy teachers and class size would make no difference ?

ninty9er wrote: »

I canvassed a woman who invited the candidate in to speak with her husband and son and he came out with 3 promised no.1 votes. They are NOT affected by the current downturn.

Would they be your relatives ?
They may be using a tactic I had thought about.
Be nice, slow them down so that they can't annoy more people.
BTW don't believe everything people tell you.
Sure didn't Biffo tell us all the fundatmentals were sound :rolleyes:

ninty9er wrote: »

Talk about being out of touch, get out on the doorsteps if you want to find out what out of touch is. I accept that some people are galled, but in an area where FF was never flavour of the month, I was surprised that there was only a reception like that at one door. Many people don't want our literature, but they're at least civil about it. But I'd rather they told us what exact situation has caused some of them to be visibly upset at the door. We're not knocking on doors just to ask for votes, we're knocking on doors to fix people's problems too.

Yeah ff are good at fixing things alright :rolleyes:

ninty9er wrote: »

Banks provide a service, and services is where the future lies, there's only so much sh1te people want to buy, but everyone needs banks.

Bertie didn't need them :rolleyes:

ninty9er wrote: »

You are aware that being a councillor isn't yet a salaried job in this country?

Yes but it has damm nice expenses and for most it is a first rung on the ladder to nice cushy Dail seat.
Also as can be seen by one of your former party colleagues in Galway it helpes you get fences built :rolleyes:

ninty9er wrote: »

...
It is not the government's fault that people took 100% mortgages not being able to afford them, but even so the government is protecting people who were that foolish in the terms of bank recapitalisation agreements.
....s

Jeeze you'd swear Biffo wasn't the minister of finance who allowed speculators and investors keep buying, all the while house prices were getting pushed up for FTBs and people that actually needed palce to live.
Ever heard of Section 23 or Section 50 ?
Who did Dept of Finance and ultimately the central bank and regulator answer to in some fashion.

Jeeze whizz they are protecting people alright. They will not allow reposeessions but we will stick you and your kids with billions of a bill :rolleyes:
Yeah that's sweet alright.

squonk

kbannon wrote: »

How are they avoiding paying the levies, the increased taxes. Maybe they have no use for the health or education sectors. Well done on finding such a rarity in this country!

Well said. I think that canvasser is being very selective about what he's saying. Look, it's as simple as this, we're all affected. We're being and are going to be even more increasingly robbed left right and center now for the next few years to make up for cronyistic practices over the past few years by our current govt. If Cowan et al were really serious about sharing the pain they'd have cut their own salaries to a meaningful degree. He gets paid more than Brown and Obama and for what? The average TD's salary is 3 times the industrial wage. There are more representatives per capita here than in the UK which is a world power., I could go on but frankly I'm sick of a taoiseach who doesn't ever seem to be around these days telling me I have to accept a drop n my standard of living yet who is raking it in himself, along with his mates. He's also the guy who was the former Minister for Finance so it's not like all of this just crept up on him. If there are genuinely people out there who are NOT affected by this recession, lucky them. I think the examples being given are of the core FF supporters who stick with the party come hell or high water. For the rest of us in the real world, time to open our wallets and kiss our cash goodbye.

destroyer

ninty9er wrote: »

I canvassed a teacher lastnight who said that he had a job, and sure the levy isn't great, but it had to happen. His words, not mine.


I WAS BEING SARCASTIC :rolleyes:

I canvassed a woman who invited the candidate in to speak with her husband and son and he came out with 3 promised no.1 votes. They are NOT affected by the current downturn.

THEY'RE STILL BUSTING A GUT LAUGHING AT YOU .

deluded.

Dob74

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

FF will lose more than that. I truly believe they are facing meldown in these elections. They will lose 50+ council seats and get only 2 definite Euros in East and South, although they could conceivable get 4 at a push. Hopefully the good people of Ireland will hand as many as possible p45s to the self-serving gombeen party. God knows they deserve it.

FF deserve to be wiped out. But they got 41% in the last general election.
So even if they fall to 25% they will be able to hold most of there council seats.
They did badly in the last local election so they dont have alot of soft seat to lose.
Most of there canidates are running as if they are independents so they should just scrap over the line.
The Mep's are interesting, if Ganley wins in the west will FF take a seat there.
Crowley will be dependant on transfers in the south.

InFront

ninty9er wrote: »

I canvassed a teacher lastnight who said that he had a job, and sure the levy isn't great, but it had to happen. His words, not mine.

Of course it's necessary, yes it has to happen and yes most people fully accept that and want to do their bit. That does not mean it isn't effecting them, there is a big difference.

Talk about being out of touch, get out on the doorsteps if you want to find out what out of touch is. I accept that some people are galled, but in an area where FF was never flavour of the month, I was surprised that there was only a reception like that at one door.

I am active in politics as much as I can be. I am on rotations for college at the moment and am getting a huge anti-FF feedback from a lot of people who say they were lifelong supporters of FF. They have no reason to tell me otherwise as far as I can see because I leave my FG loyalty at the door.

What you say makes me smile because it reminds me of a FF local election candidate I was talking to last week who told me proudly, if somewhat tragically, that she had knocked on 300 doors in her constituency and almost everybody supposedly said they'd vote for her. She had one negative response! Knowing that constituency and the candidate, this is ridiculous.
There are a few possibilities. Either candidates like this are blatantly lying and deluding themselves, or the voters are blatently lying and deluding their candidates. I have always been a bit sceptical of canvassing as a poll but more so when I hear stories like yours or hers.

You get the same kind of inflated opinions in FG and Labour and other parties, of course. I'm just talking about FF because they seem most likely for a sharp decline. I would remember to be very wary of voters' promises. Such promises can be as fickle and changeable and perhaps as dishonest as many politicians! Maybe it's karma.

squonk

InFront wrote: »

Of course it's necessary, yes it has to happen and yes most people fully accept that and want to do their bit. That does not mean it isn't effecting them, there is a big difference.


I am active in politics as much as I can be. I am on rotations for college at the moment and am getting a huge anti-FF feedback from a lot of people who say they were lifelong supporters of FF. They have no reason to tell me otherwise as far as I can see because I leave my FG loyalty at the door.

What you say makes me smile because it reminds me of a FF local election candidate I was talking to last week who told me proudly, if somewhat tragically, that she had knocked on 300 doors in her constituency and almost everybody supposedly said they'd vote for her. She had one negative response! Knowing that constituency and the candidate, this is ridiculous.
There are a few possibilities. Either candidates like this are blatantly lying and deluding themselves, or the voters are blatently lying and deluding their candidates. I have always been a bit sceptical of canvassing as a poll but more so when I hear stories like yours or hers.

You get the same kind of inflated opinions in FG and Labour and other parties, of course. I'm just talking about FF because they seem most likely for a sharp decline. I would remember to be very wary of voters' promises. Such promises can be as fickle and changeable and perhaps as dishonest as many politicians! Maybe it's karma.

A lot of it is that people want to be nice and don't want to actually use the word NO, so, being very Irish, it's easier to tell someone you'll vote for them and fob them off. The other case is that it's easier to tell someone you'll vote for them to get rid of them because the kids are acting up in the background or the dinner is nearly ready. On the other hand as well, if they do get a seat, you might need to call around to their clinic tomorrow or after for something so it's better to lie and keep in with them. All that matters is what votes are cast on polling day. I believe you have your core party supporters who you know will vote for you but beyond that, it's anyone's guess.

Personally speaking I would tell a candidate straight out that I wasn't going to vote for them. I think it is fair really and if they hadn't convinced me in what I had heard, there's no point in wasting their time either. If I do need to call on them for something then well and good and if they do help me out, they'll get my vote next time round, even if they are the opposite side of the house from those I'd usually support. Simple as that.

Erin Go Brath

ninty9er wrote: »

I challenge you to come and look at the community involvement of various candidates around the country and tell them to their faces that they're putting their own interests above the nation's

With respect thats a complete copout. If someone knocks on a door representing FF they will have to deal with the flak caused by FF, their leaders and their policies. You are the first in the line of fire. Just like if I was working in a call centre and someone rang in complaining their computer wasn't working i couldn't just say "Well i didn't make it" or "i just answer the phones what do you want me to do". Thats life, i feel a certain sympathy for the honest decent candidates who automatically are tainted with the corruption which seems endemic within FF at this stage, but it was their choice to join that party so they will have to live with the fallout. Its typical of Irish politics though, everybody abdicating responsibility for everything.

Het-Field

ninty9er wrote: »

Mistakes have been made, but since other people (nobody on this thread) have put politics and soccer in the same bracket, you don't stop supporting a team because they're playing **** or badly managed, so when you join a party I have much more respect for you if you can stick with it and try to change it rather than give up like a complete loser and move on to the next crowd, a bit like a particular former Fianna Fáil member who was kicked out of FF, subsequently joined FG, where he was kicked out and is now some sort of "guru" at Libertas.

Fianna Fáil is not in terminal decline, it's just adapting at a slower pace than I would like to the world around it.

I was out canvassing tonight, and got some abuse and some very warm welcomes, because even though many people have short memories and don't remember how much their standard of living has improved over the last 10 years, there are those that do and those that realise that a party is something to which people affiliate, but don't always agree with.

If, as one of my counterparts experienced at JUST ONE door this evening, you slam your door in someones face because of a logo on a card, that shows more your ignorance than anything else.

If you realistically have something wrong, don't expect us to be mind readers.

Just because you've been made redundant, doesn't mean the entire road has, and just because the economic situation is affecting you doesn't mean that it's affecting everyone, so when I go to a door and ask people if they have any issues, it shows complete ignorance on their part if the answer is "you're canvassing for the wrong party". Why am I canvassing for the wrong party, and more to the point, considering I'm the only person that's knocked on the door instead of dumping a leaflet in, tell me what is affecting YOU. "you know damn well" isn't a good answer, and it tells me nothing I can pass to the candidate, who is more than likely with me anyway, which would enable him or her to help you.

Politics is about serving people, and from what I heard on the doorsteps tonight, soem people are dissatisfied with how things are going in general in the economy, but the vast majority of people are getting on with their lives and it's still as irrelevant to them as it's always been who is in government.

Fianna Fáil is an organisation that is not limited to national government, community, local government and civic duties. And regardless of any opinion expressed anywhere, Fianna Fáil is an organisation whose parliamentary party will continue to exist, because many of you seem to forget that countries don't just need governments, they need oppositions too!

The football and politics analogy are simply wrong. You inherit a team (or choose it, when it comes to the English Premiership), however, ones politics need to be selected, and if one evolves politically, then a shift in political parties may be just what the doctor ordered.

This business of beating the drum about "improved standards of living" are a red herring. While they are appreciated, they are of no real benefit to those who now occupy the dole ques, and stand waiting for food parcels at Capucian House, or wait outside Londis on Stephen's Green to apply for one job, which will be failer modest in terms of job satisfation, and payment.

Trying to change FF is not going to happen. I was in FF for several years, and the last straw was a KBC policy evening in 2005,w hen the most redundant, irrelevant, and regressive policy was discussed and put forward. Since then, we have seen the development of a government, within a government. There is a clear disconnect between Cowen, Coughlan, and Lenihan, and the rest of the Government, and by extension the PP. That extra layer of bureaucracy (unoffficialy or otherwise), is a major problem, which highlights how promianat the cummanns (negated by HQ intervention in the Locals), and the general membership. Imagine how disconnected a member with absolutly no status is ?

Change will come, when the current cabinet is ejected. Its looking like that could be sooner rather than later

destroyer

Joey the lips wrote: »

For the record I am not a fianna failure but just to look at the problems.

1. A lot of people blame Fianna Fail for the house situation. I saw David Mc Williams in search of the popes children years ago he warned of the house situation. He warned that we are relying to much on this market. But what were we all doing when this program was running? We were prob watching CSI or soprannos or something!


Why was it David McWilliams and not the FF gov. warning us. Perhaps they were watching CSI or sopranos as well, (a crime show and a gangster show, hmmm....)


2. Now what does Ireland do best! We steel jobs from america. Like china poland and asia are steeling jobs from us! We encourage employers here with our low corporation tax and benefits! when this runs out they fack off! Is this Fianna Fails fault? I cant see how! The other economies are just doing what we done better!

The problem didn't arise from the multi-national sector. Almost all those you see in the dole queue now were employed by Irish people
building Irish houses for Irish people who didn't need them and with tax breaks thrown in as well.
We were supposed to be attracting more high quality jobs because of our supposedly educated workforce,(steal not steel)

3. The unions! There is no doubt Ireland is Fecked without a union! Was it not(Correct me) Ray McSharry who first set down with the unions and began the partnership talks. Remeber partnership 2000!

Now there is no doubt in my mind that Fianna fail and Fianna Gael are very simular in there approch on these situations but its the workings of these situations that failure occurs!

As happened in the recent partnership talks.

1. Its a know fact not my rantings but confirmable by leading economists that 80% of development land in the dublin and surounding areas is owned bu 20% of the majour developers. When the goverment re zones more land this is usually bought up straight away by these developers. So why was this problem not identified long ago! it was! by both fianna fail and fianna gael the problem is these developers are majour contributors to Fianna fails and fianna Gaels political donations why! to protect this cartel they have! In fact the only 2 partys that consistantly complain about this cartel is labour and Sinn Fein. The others just arent given the airtime.

Have I lost you! Have you wondered why your house is so expensive! Because supply will always fall far short of demand! This is strictly controlled, The current glitch is temporary! Give it time and we will be as relient as ever on the building industry!

So you saw Davis Mc'S program and took precautions not to buy! But your house is falling in demand and price why! your house is falling in demand becuase the banks have cut the money its lending! 100% mortagages are virtually gone! cheap credit it there but getting credit is difficult!

2. Outsourching! Ireland technology boom is based on steeling jobs from other countrys! so why do we give out when its done to us! again if I refere to labour and sinn feins policy. Was it not Michael D Higgins that pointed out many years the importance of home grown industries! Sinn feinns stance is also well known on home grown industries! So why is it we constantly chase international employers and fail to focus on home grown industries! Its only recently Brien Cowen wrote to banks asking them to go easy on home grown industries in trouble

3. The unions, The goverment in my opinion has failed to sit down propperly with the unions but it has made the best attempt to date. Charlie Haughey did not want to know about them. The fact that the unions display labours flag at election time is no coincidence ( even though I always objected to it) labours growth has come from the unions. Fianna Fail have always known this. This is why they sat down with the unions in partnership. Many sinn fein members have been union members most famous of these was Larry o toole the gateaux union rep! Not many fianna fail or fianna gael lads have been unions lads have they?

So you see my problem is this. Yes the goverment is messing up yes they are making mistakes! but is this there failure to manage what they have! I dont think so! I think this is failure on there behalf to take on the real problems and risk loosing its remaining support!

Do you think Fianna Gael will tackle these problems any different than Fianna Fail!!!!

Would you not be of the opinion if you really want radical change you need a labour goverment or sinn fein goverment!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Erin Go Brath

Dob74 wrote: »

FF deserve to be wiped out. But they got 41% in the last general election.
So even if they fall to 25% they will be able to hold most of there council seats.
They did badly in the last local election so they dont have alot of soft seat to lose.
Most of there canidates are running as if they are independents so they should just scrap over the line.
The Mep's are interesting, if Ganley wins in the west will FF take a seat there.
Crowley will be dependant on transfers in the south.

I haven't done the sums on each of the local area constituencies but there is a definite huge downward trend in support for FF country wide and anti-FF sentiment is rampant which has to translate into some seat losses. They will unquestioningly lose seats galore in this election even on their poor enough 2004 totals. FG, Lab, and SF will all gain some of the fallen FF seats.

Europe is harder to predict. I do believe that we will see for the first time a Euro constituency returning no FFers, and maybe even 2 constituencies. Heres hoping anyway!

Joey the lips

destroyer wrote: »

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So your jist is an economist advised us of problems with the economy and the building sector ie house building is the problem. So whats the solution!

Forgot that dident you

Dohhhh!!!!!!!!

uRbaN

In my opinion the best thing that can possible happen right now is for Fainna Fail to take a hiding in the local elections and lose a general election within a year.

Let them take a beating and like everyone else in a working environment right now come back leaner and hungrier for the work.

A FF canvasser told one of my customers that his party "Put that Audi in your driveway". This kind of stuff boils my blood.

bcirl03

uRbaN wrote: »

A FF canvasser told one of my customers that his party "Put that Audi in your driveway". This kind of stuff boils my blood.

I wonder did the FF canvasser also remind your customer how much VRT they paid for it, road tax, tax on petrol \ diesel, toll roads etc etc etc that go to the government to use it.

Oh I'd have lost the rag with that FF waster.

97i9y3941

i expect the usual tricks,promise everything,take out the goods like way parents take out presents for kids at xmas,people vote them in,then put them back in cupboard when the election is over.

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote: »

Banks provide a service, and services is where the future lies, there's only so much sh1te people want to buy, but everyone needs banks.

jmayo wrote: »

Bertie didn't need them :rolleyes:

touché

ninty9er

kbannon wrote: »

How are they avoiding paying the levies, the increased taxes. Maybe they have no use for the health or education sectors. Well done on finding such a rarity in this country!

Everybody is paying levies, but in many cases that is currently being evened out by lower interest rates. Not a deliberate policy decision that could have been taken but one that's real and doesn mean people aren't worse off on the whole.

If you're retired and your kids are at college you won't be affected. That's just one situation. It displays a clear lack of cop-on to imply that everyone out there is suffering to within an inch of not eating next week.

CorkFenian wrote: »

So the teacher said they would vote FF no problem did they??As well as the couple??Let me guess..They said that FF had done a good job inspite of an unprecedented global economic downturn!

He said he would keep the candidate in mind because what had been done locally was more important to him, these being LOCAL elections, he did say that he does not currently see himself voting for FF at the next General Election, but that's a whole different kettle of fish, he will not be voting along party lines for local elections as he doesn't see that it has any bearing on how the council operates.

The couple said likewise.

jmayo wrote: »

Woudl this be one of your teacher or teacher trainee friends that you quoted famously as knowing the real problem with education was lazy teachers and class size would make no difference ?



Would they be your relatives ?

Nope, none of those people live in the area. Believe it or not I have friends from beyond the city boundary.:rolleyes:

squonk wrote: »

Personally speaking I would tell a candidate straight out that I wasn't going to vote for them. I think it is fair really and if they hadn't convinced me in what I had heard, there's no point in wasting their time either. If I do need to call on them for something then well and good and if they do help me out, they'll get my vote next time round, even if they are the opposite side of the house from those I'd usually support. Simple as that.

I know this exists, and got a whole lot of it in the General Election 2 years ago, but for every 5 no.1s we were promised we probably got 1 and the other 3 were no.2s, with the rest being the polite "I don't want to say no" householder.

kbannon wrote: »

touché

Well done:rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote: »

Everybody is paying levies, but in many cases that is currently being evened out by lower interest rates. Not a deliberate policy decision that could have been taken but one that's real and doesn mean people aren't worse off on the whole.

The vast majoriyy of people are affected by the downturn in some form of another and its rather naive of you to suggest otherwise. Maybe those on variable rate mortgages are cushioned a bit but what about everyone else? What about the many people on fixed rate mortgages?
What about those who are going to be affected by government cutbacks? What about those who have lost their jobs? What about those who have had to take pay cuts? What about those in the public sector who are paying much more each month?

ninty9er wrote: »

If you're retired and your kids are at college you won't be affected. That's just one situation. It displays a clear lack of cop-on to imply that everyone out there is suffering to within an inch of not eating next week.

What poroportion of the population are retired with all of their kids in college?
Anyhow, I never suggested that they were on the breadline and don't try to imply that I did. I merely pointed out that the example you cited was far from the norm!

ninty9er wrote: »

Well done:rolleyes:

Is that all you can say?
The former leader of your party (whom the party stood by vehemently), who made all his money on horses and never had a bank account was a perfect exception to your argument!

Liam Byrne

uRbaN wrote: »

A FF canvasser told one of my customers that his party "Put that Audi in your driveway". This kind of stuff boils my blood.

+1,000,000.....those **** deserve to be run over by the said Audi! :mad: They're not responsible [or should that read "irresponsible"] for the downturn, but claiming they're responsible for everything that we've worked our asses off for!

* Of course, the customer might have been a developer/banker/other Galway-tenter, in which case the statement might have been true.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Everybody is paying levies, but in many cases that is currently being evened out by lower interest rates. Not a deliberate policy decision that could have been taken but one that's real and doesn mean people aren't worse off on the whole.

Bull**** of the highest order, and as for the "not a deliberate policy decision"... :rolleyes: it wasn't EVEN a policy decision, let alone a "deliberate" one.

Next thing you know you'll be claiming that petrol is cheaper thanks of FF's "non-deliberate policy decision" that has resulted in petrol prices worldwide preventing the extra FF taxes from screwing us even more, despite FF SPECIFICALLY adding 10c + extra VAT on to it! :P

And what about the banks that - courtesy of FF - WE own ? Are they even giving out loans at the low level ? A mate of mine in the car trade told me that 50% of usual business coming in, and of the other 50% the banks were refusing loans left, right and centre.....what does it matter what the rate is if you can't get the loan in the first place ?

And what does it matter what the rate is if you've lost your job ?

ninty9er wrote: »

If you're retired and your kids are at college you won't be affected.

You won't be affected by redundancy, either, so I guess those old folk are handy to have around in order to skew the stats and the reality.

Except for the fact that you probably don't have a pension or a leg to stand on in Health Services, etc....and at least you'd have your medical card back .... a VERY "deliberate policy decision" that FF U-turned on in order to claw back some potential votes.....Alzheimers would be required to forget that one, though.

ninty9er wrote: »

It displays a clear lack of cop-on to imply that everyone out there is suffering to within an inch of not eating next week

It certainly does; "everyone out there" is a 100% term, and it includes former bank chiefs, former taoisigh, and former developers - all eating perfectly fine, last time I looked, thanks to massive payoffs with our money.

If 10,000 people died in car crashes next year, it would also be a "clear lack of cop on to imply that everyone out there was dying"; but it wouldn't make it any less of a disgrace and a tragedy.....

Mind you, the detached "everyone out there" shows just how "in tune" FF are in their "us and them" world.....the word is "WE"; "US" as a COUNTRY and POPULATION.

ninty9er

kbannon wrote: »

What about the many people on fixed rate mortgages?

I've worked in banking on the counters, and 90% of people are on variable mortgages. If you picked a higher fixed rate you did so because you could afford it, and it would want to be some massive drop in income not just 5-6% that would change that.

kbannon wrote: »

What about those who are going to be affected by government cutbacks? What about those who have lost their jobs? What about those who have had to take pay cuts? What about those in the public sector who are paying much more each month?

What about those who aren't going to be affected by any of that, there's still approximately 2 million people at work, and if you could show me that even 10% of those took a pay cut I'd be surprised. I stand fully over the PSPL as someone who has an aunt who will retire with 70% of her final salary as a pension from the public sector. I don't begrudge it, but neither do I think the non-public sector worker owes it to them, they are paying more each month because they are judged to be in a position to pay it.

HQvhs

ninty9er wrote: »

What about those who aren't going to be affected by any of that, there's still approximately 2 million people at work, and if you could show me that even 10% of those took a pay cut I'd be surprised.

Em, I'm fairly sure that more than 10% of the population work in the public sector and, as a result, are losing income to the pension levy. Also, the new income and health levies have reduced almost everyone's incomes.
Everyone is affected to some extent by cutbacks in road maintenance, the health service, education etc. And yes, these cuts are necessary and more than likely don't go far enough, but they effect everyone nonetheless.

Daithinski

enda1 wrote: »

I don't get this country at all, is everyone so weak and selfish that they cant take the blame for their own cock ups?

This is exactly the lesson our politicians / bankers / developers have taught us.

Never take the blame or responsibility for your cock ups.

Pin the blame on somebody else, and deny everything until everybody gets fed up with it and forgets all about it.

Kidchameleon

ninty9er wrote:

"and he came out with 3 promised no.1 votes"

Probably to get him out of the house quicker

ninty9er

HQvhs wrote: »

Em, I'm fairly sure that more than 10% of the population work in the public sector and, as a result, are losing income to the pension levy. Also, the new income and health levies have reduced almost everyone's incomes.
Everyone is affected to some extent by cutbacks in road maintenance, the health service, education etc. And yes, these cuts are necessary and more than likely don't go far enough, but they effect everyone nonetheless.

Pay cuts apply to gross pay. There is a net equivalent, but increased taxes aren't a pay cut in the sense that "my boss took 10% of my wages"

ninty9er

Kidchameleon wrote: »

ninty9er wrote:

"and he came out with 3 promised no.1 votes"

Probably to get him out of the house quicker

Hardly, considering she asked him in in the first place. I have absolutely nothing to gain here by telling things as they are, I'll just make the point that the internet is a place where people come to rant, just because YOU are unhappy and miserable, doesn't mean that 4.5 million other people are.

paddyland

You are a shining example of your preferred party.

Your main line of argument in this thread, to everyone who decries FF and their supporters, seems to be that there are plenty of satisfied and contented voters, so we shouldn't worry about the few naysayers. That's how you come across.

That was Bertie's attitude too. I see it hasn't gone away.