Should smokers/obese people be refused the medical card?

thebman

I think there should be extra tax put on food with a disproprionate amount of fat content similar to how cigs have extra tax placed on them although not to the same level as you need a certain amount of fat and some kinds of fat aren't bad for you and should have probably be excluded. Leave that one to the doctors.

Fast food outlets especially should have extra tax on their products to encourage healthier menus IMO and more prominent display of percentage of calories each meal contains for your recommended daily intake should be displayed on the signs of meals when ordering.

That is just my opinion though.

Macha

colly10 wrote: »

No, smokers probably pay for their own health care many many times over, at a guess id say theres about 6 euro tax on a 20 box so someone smoking 20 a day will pay a substantial amount of tax over 30/40 years as a smoker

I'd say they don't. Cigarettes/boxes etc make up a very large proportion of street rubbish so we're not just looking at medical costs but also waste costs.

colly10 wrote: »

Also smokers don't be in bits all the time like some would have you believe. I smoked for 10 years, I got off them last year and starting training 4-5 days a week, I got sick less as a smoker. I used to take the piss out of muppets who went on about my health by pointing out they got sick far more than me.

Sorry but I'll accept official scientific stats over your anecdotal evidence any day. You seem to be trying to insinuate that cigarettes don't make people sick.

colly10 wrote: »

Bottom line, they pay enough in tax,

You have yet to prove that.

colly10 wrote: »

it's their body, leave them to it,

Do you also want us to leave them to it when they're dying of lung cancer or other related illnesses?

colly10 wrote: »

I would hate to see the state interfere in peoples lives like that, it's none of their business is someone likes cake a bit too much either

As long as smokers pay for themselves and do not overly impact on other people, fine. At the moment, it is not clear whether they externalise certain costs to the rest of society or not.

colly10 wrote: »

Would you bring in this for people who have too many pints at the weekend too, or maybe people who don't excersise enough or have too much salt in their diet

It's certainly something to be considered. Whatever about the concept of a social welfare state to support people who fall on difficult times (financially, medically, etc), I'm not in favour of giving hand-outs to people who intentionally damage their own health and then hold their hand out for free medical care.

colly10 wrote: »

+1 on this, im now a non smoker but still find the self righteous bull**** from some non-smokers such as the op irritates the hell out of me, take the tax off them and then ye can take back the medical card

I'm an ex-smoker too but I don't really see what your problem is with someone not wanting to carry the can for other people. What I find more irritating is the sense of entitlement of some people (including some smokers) that they can carry on as they like (don't dare tell them what to do) with everyone picking up the pieces, literally, behind them.

saol alainn

I disagree. First it's the smokers and obese, then alcoholics (whether weekend ones or otherwise), then those who don't exercise, then the elderly, then those who have multiple conditions because they cost too much, then whoever's next on the list. And then when it's our turn, we'll say "but..but...!" As in everything, once you're on that road, it's rolling downhill all the way. Healthcare isn't free anyway because patients pay their taxes and PRSI to access the service. There's the risk that we're being prepared to take the blame for something which we had no hand in. Even during the good times, while consultants were being paid how much exactly?, their patients had to wait several months to be seen, if not misdiagnosed, and people were on trolleys in the corridors.

greendom

Not really an issue as they'll be dead by the time they receive one

halkar

Remove the taxes and vat on cigs, remove health leavy for smorkers, special prsi reduction, extra allowance from tax and as a smoker I be happy enough to give up medical card and use private insurance. I may even have some change in my pockets.

Question is, how will Mary keep the hospitals open

eamonnm79

Well its a fairly simple choice.
Do you want to live in a civilised compasionite society or do you want to live in the freemarket of unfettered capitalism.

Or do you want to keep the status quo of State Capitalism?

mikemac

thebman wrote: »

Fast food outlets especially should have extra tax on their products to encourage healthier menus IMO

It was widely reported that a McDonalds salad has more calories then a big mac.
So onto your next point

thebman wrote: »

more prominent display of percentage of calories each meal contains for your recommended daily intake should be displayed on the signs of meals when ordering.

Agreed, I do know Subway have booklets you can take with you

Macha

mikemac wrote: »

It was widely reported that a McDonalds salad has more calories then a big mac.
So onto your next point

So obviously they aren't healthier meals. Thebman's point was that they should provide healthier meals. The fact that the meals they have marketed as healthier at the moment aren't healthier, doesn't invalidate the concept.

taram

Techincally obese people would be buying more luxury goods at the higher rate of tax (biscuits, chips, chocolate etc) so are contributing more tax than those who eat a fresh food diet? :P

thebman

taram wrote: »

Techincally obese people would be buying more luxury goods at the higher rate of tax (biscuits, chips, chocolate etc) so are contributing more tax than those who eat a fresh food diet? :P

Yes but the point of raising taxes on these foods would be to act as a disincentive to rely on these food groups to make up your meals in the day.

Not saying they should be at an unaffordable level or anything as I eat unhealthily more often than I probably should myself (although I'm far from obese). I don't think there is anything wrong with enjoying this food but not being solely reliant on it for your diet.

It isn't about paying your way, it is about encouraging healthy lifestyles and taxing unhealthy choices but giving the people the freedom to choose them if they still want to but at a higher price in the hope they will do so less often. I think it is also important we encourage the companies to come up with healthier tasty snacks rather than relying on salt, sugar and fat to make up the flavor.

CAPSLOCK365

I'd be in favour of denying medical cards to people who hold chronically stupid opinions on who should or should not hold a medical card.
And then taxing the living the shi*e out of them.

tattoodublin

CAPSLOCK365 wrote: »

I'd be in favour of denying medical cards to people who hold chronically stupid opinions on who should or should not hold a medical card.
And then taxing the living the shi*e out of them.

Hahahaha VERY GOOD! I agree completely.

"lets just tax the ****e out of ourselves and throw ALL our freedoms to the wind..... for our own good" huh? huh? huh?

People need to get a grip that they are being played like a deck of well worn cards.

You know? There is a fabled land, where people have free medical and free education for all, where the leader doesn't have a personal bank account ( or even a personal wardrobe, let alone make-up artists and speechwriters and such payed with public tax money... nothing but actors reciting lines ) and despite criticisms of that country and its economy, which never seem to take into account the 50 years of embargos they have endured... and they are still providing free education and health care to their people, even if they DO smoke big Havana cigars

Good on you Fidel!