[US/IRL] 5X16/17 - "The Incident" - 2 Hour Season Finale [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Big Nelly

Couple of things:

What if the bomb doesnt go off and that when Desmond turns the key he actually sets off the bomb, the bomb could be used as the fail safe. When Locke fails to enter the numbers the place starts to act the same as it did at the end of this episode. What if the Darma people do not know how to solve the problem but leave the bomb in place in case of an emergency?

Bad Locke told all the people to rest because something special was happening that evening with them, or he was planning something special for them, what is he going to do after he kills Jacob?

Bad Locke killed Jacob, not Ben, he was still alive

Hurley I think is going to be the good one

Why did everyone tell Locke there would be a battle and he had to be back on the island to stop it?

Who the hell thought Jack how to shoot? he was like a sniper! must have nailed 10 guys without a single shot hitting him

Why did Jacob save Ben, when Witmore came back to the camp after Ben joined when he was shot Richard told Witmore that Jacob wanted him there

Ben said the Temple was there peoples(others) temple, this would mean Jacobs temple. Not bad Jacob

Richard said he seen all the 815 people die when Sun asked him if he knew Jin etc. I need to watch again but where did Richard go when Jack and everyone went back into the Darma camp? if he had seen them all die that means they are not back in proper time but something else happens in 77 and its not the bomb.

Jacob said to Jin and Sun love should not be thrown apart(need to watch again) but it is at the moment

Who was the first person to tell Locke he needed to die? was it bad locke or Ben?

Jacob died very easy, maybe makes sense when Ben said earlier that "dead is dead", even the great Jacob is just flesh

At the start of this season Sky had interview with everyone, part of that was Desmond on the island. I find it strange this was just for the latch chat with Daniel. I still think Desmond has a major part to play

Still confused about a lot of things, like moving the island, did Jacob create this or is it just because it is a special island and when Darma added science to the island they created this?

Bad Locke seemed shocked when Ben said about his daughter talked to him, if it was him controlling smokie then why would he be shocked?

Unpossible

8

Bad Locke seemed shocked when Ben said about his daughter talked to him, if it was him controlling smokie then why would he be shocked?

Maybe the same reason he made richard bring him to Jacob, its all an act to manipulate people into doing what he needs to be able to kill Jacob.

tony1kenobi

Big Nelly wrote: »

Couple of things:

What if the bomb doesnt go off and that when Desmond turns the key he actually sets off the bomb, the bomb could be used as the fail safe. When Locke fails to enter the numbers the place starts to act the same as it did at the end of this episode. What if the Darma people do not know how to solve the problem but leave the bomb in place in case of an emergency?

How about if the bomb didn't go off. They build the swan, and every 108 minutes they push a button that delivers a ham sandwich down to what's left of Juliet to distract her from belting that potentially fatal bomb with a big rock?

It might sound crazy but go with it.......

Or maybe not.:D

ZondaChai

9

how many possible ways can it go

Transported back to present - Juliet alive
Transported back to present - Juliet dead
Electromagnetic energy cancels out bomb - everyone lives
Electromagnetic energy combines with bomb - everyone dies
Electromagnetic radioactive explosion mutates Juliet into one smoking hot smoke monster

Soby

9

Was the bit with "Locke" kicking Jacob into the fire and basically making him the one that killed him not Ben, a error??.Seen as at the start of the last episode he said he couldnt and needed to find a loophole.

Chardee MacDennis

Biggins wrote: »

Just to get ye going - Lost Season Six.

right hate to be the cranky a$$ especially considering i generally just read and dont post much in here but can people stop putting up stuff about season 6 in here please (i mean you spoilered the stuff from THIS episode but nothing about future eps? wtf?), i am sure i am not alone in not wanting to see previews etc. if i am i'll shut up.

also is it too difficult for people to read the thread before posting something thats been written a couple of times?

again apologies if i am being an a$$....

cooker3

Remember in a previous episode Richard said to Sun he seen everyone die that was in the picture of the 1977 recruits. Now we know Richard wasn't actually physically there so my guess is he must have seen an explosion which was big enough for him to assume nobody could have possibly survived it or everyone did survive and stayed in that time zone and they all died in a separate incident which Richard saw. To me the first option is far more likely and to me means they will likely did another time jump to 2007.

I suppose it opens it up for Juliet to survive although I am still saying she is a goner. Without her relationship to Sawyer there is not much for her to do. Although it's kinda sad that we never got to see her leaving the island and have a re-union with her sister.

Sad Professor

9

You don't need to worry about season 6 spoilers just yet, BastardPrince. That ABC "preview" is bulls**t and the writers are in "radio silence" until Comic-con in July. They resume shooting in August, I think. There won't be any real spoilers until then.

doonothing

9

As much as I want Juliet to survive, I can't see how she will, wont she be buried alive if they time jump? And she was in a bad enough way to die within a few minutes it seemed anyway... I really want her to survive though, she's one of the 6 or so characters I don't dislike!

Sad Professor

9

I dunno, I mean they could have made it clear that Juliet was dead if they wished. Instead they carefully designed the ending so that Sawyer believed she was dead but for the audience her fate was left up in the air. The last time we saw Juliet she was alive. Hell, we didn't actually even see the bomb go off - god knows what happened.

Maybe she survived a la Desmond. Or maybe she got transported off island like Ben/Locke did.

But mostly I just don't think they'd kill her off like that without giving her a centric episode. So I reckon she is alive and will pop up at some point next season, probably as a consolidation prize for whoever survives the triangle.

doonothing

9

I like the way you think! As I said, I really hope she survives, I get what you mean about the way Sawyer thinks she's dead... So she might pop up like Jin did as a nice cliffhanger mid season or something.

Man I can't wait for september

Sea Sharp

3

Now I'm thinking:

Richard came to the island from the Black Rock. There was another losties stranded on the island scenario back in the 19th century. (That would make for a good Richard flashback.)

It's obvious now that Jacob brought them all to the island. Why?
To set off the nuke and break the loop-hole? i.e change the past and save himself from Esau.

There seems to be a conflict of science vs the paranormal here.
I think in the next season they're gonna tie it up and it will turn out that the smoke monster is some technology from the distant future.

cooker3

doonothing wrote: »

Man I can't wait for september

I wish

doctor evil

9

Smokey as Locke?

I don't buy it as Smokey protects the Island. I say it is Locke in another form. If he is dead than his story line is over and he plays evil/fake/Esau Locke.

Personally a lot of it is Richard and Jacob messing around with Pawns (people) I don't think they are friends but rather tolerate each other. How long has Esau been trapped in the cabin? (the one that Hurley smudged the ash circle). What are Richard/Jacob/Esau?

Poor Juliette, a lot of chopping and changing going on. I'm surprised Pierre didn't try harder to stop the beardy scientist.

I love how Bernard and Rose are 'retired' along with Vincent. In a way they seem to be the smartest on the Island.

Niall0

5

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

It's obvious now that Jacob brought them all to the island. Why?
To set off the nuke and break the loop-hole? i.e change the past and save himself from Esau.

It seems to me that bringing them to the island caused the loop hole, maybe jacob wanted to die? If he was alive for hundreds of years maybe he just wanted his life to end. I wonder why esau couldnt kill him on his own.

thecommander

7

when they ask the question about who lies in the shadow of the statue. Does it mean lies as in lying down, or lies as in fibs?

Basq

thecommander wrote: »

when they ask the question about who lies in the shadow of the statue. Does it mean lies as in lying down, or lies as in fibs?

It's "lies" in a biblical sense.. as in who resides.

[-0-]

9

I really liked the finale... there was a few minutes where I was bored though but I expected a bit of that. I loved when Jacob appeared to the lads, making sure they made it to the Island. He also revived Locke, which was awesome.

I really did not want to see him die, and I'm hoping that the fact that Esau kicked him into the fire means he'll live, which seems likely although you just never know.

Damn, that fish looked tasty in the opening scene!

I was very surprised we didn't see Jacks father and Claire on the Island... I was expecting to see them in there with Jacob. It's so hard to know whether they were Esau or not.

What boggles me is... Smokey helps the Island by killing the soldiers, but then he tells Ben to do whatever Esau asks of him... which ultimately leads to him killing Jacob. Is Smokey Esau? Why was the ending reversed now, with the "LOST" writing in black and the background in white?

If Jacob is dead, how has good prevailed?

I'm going to watch the episode again later as I don't think I gave it my full attention.

Infact, I think I'll watch every episode.

Handsome Bob

7

For anyone who is interested, I posted a theory on Dark UFO in the aftermath of "The Incident". It has been seemingly been well received.:D It's my fourth theory, never got anything under 3 stars.:P

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2009/05/john-locke-will-personify-both-good-and.html#comments

[-0-]

9

[-0-] wrote: »

I really liked the finale... there was a few minutes where I was bored though but I expected a bit of that. I loved when Jacob appeared to the lads, making sure they made it to the Island. He also revived Locke, which was awesome.

I really did not want to see him die, and I'm hoping that the fact that Esau kicked him into the fire means he'll live, which seems likely although you just never know.

Damn, that fish looked tasty in the opening scene!

I was very surprised we didn't see Jacks father and Claire on the Island... I was expecting to see them in there with Jacob. It's so hard to know whether they were Esau or not.

What boggles me is... Smokey helps the Island by killing the soldiers, but then he tells Ben to do whatever Esau asks of him... which ultimately leads to him killing Jacob. Is Smokey Esau? Why was the ending reversed now, with the "LOST" writing in black and the background in white?

If Jacob is dead, how has good prevailed?

I'm going to watch the episode again later as I don't think I gave it my full attention.

Infact, I think I'll watch every episode.

Just thinking about this again... I don't believe that Smokey is Esau. I think it's just a tool on the Island, and when Esau got free from the cabin he could harness it's power, or convinced it to help him (appearing as Ben's daughter).

Here's what we have:

Locke was told by Richard that he had to die, however, Richard was really told by Esau to tell him this. This was Esau ensuring that he would have Locke's body when he returned to the Island. It's also how he occupied Jack's father's body, and Eko's brother.

When Ben shot Locke on the Island it was Jacob that ensured he didn't die. He also brought him back to life when he fell out the window.

So Jacob and Esau are twin brothers, and they are Gods. Evil vs Good. Jacob is RA (Funny that we have a Richard Alpert eh?). I wonder if Richard is Jacob's son? They can't kill each other directly, but they can do it indirectly ala Ben.

So years ago Jacob somehow killed Esau, causing him to have no body. He was the one that was locked in the Cabin - not Jacob as we originally thought. It was Esau that asked Locke to save him, not Jacob.

I also believe that these two have killed each other many, many times in the past, using the people that came to the Island. Jacob anticipated Esau's loophole, and it was Jacob that brought our Oceanic friends back to 1977 to undo his death.... a counter to the loophole, so to speak.

purcela

2

anotherlostie wrote: »

I would presume that Smokie Christian hid/ burned the real Christian's body in the same way that Smokie Locke must have moved the body into the metal case.

As regards Juliet, I was looking at IMDB today (never when the shows are on), and she is part of the remake of V. Now of course she could be offed by a lizard in one episode, but it might mean she's not coming back.

About Juliet, I remember seeing a video on Dark UFO in the last couple of weeks where she was being interviewed by Jimmy Kimmel who mentioned her new show and did that mean she would be leaving Lost, and she replied that she had finished filming her stint on V, pretty sure she said she wasn't going to appear any further in it, that she was completely done and free to carry on in Lost.

Leon11

LZ5by5 wrote: »

For anyone who is interested, I posted a theory on Dark UFO in the aftermath of "The Incident". It has been seemingly been well received.:D It's my fourth theory, never got anything under 3 stars.:P

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2009/05/john-locke-will-personify-both-good-and.html#comments

Was thinking the same myself. You might want to add to that theory the role Hurley has to play. When he was in the cab with Jacob that conversation indicated that he has a central role to play. I think it could be Hurley who sees "dead" jacob/locke and brings them back to life somehow.

Niall0

5

LZ5by5 wrote: »

For anyone who is interested, I posted a theory on Dark UFO in the aftermath of "The Incident". It has been seemingly been well received.:D It's my fourth theory, never got anything under 3 stars.:P

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2009/05/john-locke-will-personify-both-good-and.html#comments

Thats a really good theory looking at http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Black_and_white
, some things of interest:
Locke states that his sighting of the monster was as "a beautiful white light", wheras Eko's (and the audience's) is always of a cloud of black smoke. ("The Cost of Living")

Locke told Walt that backgammon is "two players. Two sides. One is light, one is dark." ("Pilot, Part 2")


Claire had a dream in which Locke has one black eye and one white eye.

[-0-]

9

Niall0 wrote: »

Thats a really good theory looking at http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Black_and_white
, some things of interest:
Locke states that his sighting of the monster was as "a beautiful white light", wheras Eko's (and the audience's) is always of a cloud of black smoke. ("The Cost of Living")

Locke told Walt that backgammon is "two players. Two sides. One is light, one is dark." ("Pilot, Part 2")


Claire had a dream in which Locke has one black eye and one white eye.

Which leads me to believe that Jacob will take Locke's body and it'll be good Locke vs evil Locke.

purcela

2

LZ5by5 wrote: »

For anyone who is interested, I posted a theory on Dark UFO in the aftermath of "The Incident". It has been seemingly been well received.:D It's my fourth theory, never got anything under 3 stars.:P

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2009/05/john-locke-will-personify-both-good-and.html#comments

Really interesting theory, far better than some of the ridiculous theories that other people post on DarkUFO. After that comic-con video where the rabbit gets cloned there has always been speculation of cloning, but maybe this is what they were referencing, 2 John Locke bodies on the island.

The only thing that would be disappointing about this theory would be the actor who played Jacob not being in Lost any more as I thought he played the character very well and was extremely interesting to watch on screen.

Psychedelic

4

Big Nelly wrote: »

Jacob died very easy, maybe makes sense when Ben said earlier that "dead is dead", even the great Jacob is just flesh

I don't think Jacob is just flesh and can be killed so easily, he has lived hundreds of years and has powers (healing Locke and whatever else he done to the Losties by touching them). Then again, if Jacob can't be killed, then why does his foe want to kill him.

Soby wrote: »

Was the bit with "Locke" kicking Jacob into the fire and basically making him the one that killed him not Ben a error??.Seen as at the start of the last episode he said he couldnt and needed to find a loophole.

Yeah I was thinking that too. In his hatred and over eagerness to kill Jacob, the Esau character (as Locke) kicks him into the fire, but this is a mistake he makes, and will somehow lead to Jacob surviving, because the Esau character can't kill Jacob himself. Saying that though, Ben did stab Jacob in the heart area twice, so Jacob should be dead (if he can actually be killed).

Handsome Bob

7

purcela wrote: »

Really interesting theory, far better than some of the ridiculous theories that other people post on DarkUFO. After that comic-con video where the rabbit gets cloned there has always been speculation of cloning, but maybe this is what they were referencing, 2 John Locke bodies on the island.

The only thing that would be disappointing about this theory would be the actor who played Jacob not being in Lost any more as I thought he played the character very well and was extremely interesting to watch on screen.

Definitely, Mark Pellegrino was powerful and had such a screen presence in his portrayal of Jacob. I hope that we get to see flashbacks at least with both Pellegrino as Jacob and Titus as the man in black.

Soby

9

[-0-] wrote: »

Which leads me to believe that Jacob will take Locke's body and it'll be good Locke vs evil Locke.

..that would be awsome

Agamemnon

8

Big Nelly wrote: »

Who the hell thought Jack how to shoot? he was like a sniper! must have nailed 10 guys without a single shot hitting him

That was pretty funny all right. Jack was popping caps in Dharma asses with a skill Chuck Norris would envy. After his fight with Sawyer, I half-expected Jack's face to fall off, revealing a metallic skull with red eyes.

Sherifu

9

Agamemnon wrote: »

That was pretty funny all right. Jack was popping caps in Dharma asses with a skill Chuck Norris would envy. After his fight with Sawyer, I half-expected Jack's face to fall off, revealing a metallic skull with red eyes.

I was thinking about this when I watched it. Put it down to the steady hands of a surgeon...

Chardee MacDennis

havent seen this up here yet but jacobs tapestry had a greek phrase which means

"may the gods grant thee all that thy heart desires"

and is from homer's odyssey

Cake Man

7

Just watchin it now, so far so good!:)

Niall0

5

Agamemnon wrote: »

That was pretty funny all right. Jack was popping caps in Dharma asses with a skill Chuck Norris would envy. After his fight with Sawyer, I half-expected Jack's face to fall off, revealing a metallic skull with red eyes.

What about sayeeds incredible skill at dismantling an atomic bomb with tools that came out of nowhere, carrying the core around in a backpack and rewiring it to detonate on impact whilst dying :pac:.

Blazer

9

basquille wrote: »

So, we finally get to meet Rita's druggie ex-husband... I mean Jacob. .

I knew I recognised his face from somewhere. Thanks dude.

As for Richard...I reckon he's maybe one of the original Black Rose? (ship)
Only saying this as they showed Jabob and Esau watching the shop coming in.

tok9

9

I'm surprised there hasn't been much talk about the cabin...

We are now assuming that the cabin belonged to esau but if thats the case then why did he leave a picture of the statue in there.. by doing o you would think he knows where jacob is but i find that very unlikely since he got richard to lead him there...

TheManWho

9

I think everyone is overlooking the biggest twist and in my opinion the best part of the finale

After 103 episodes, a dozen specials, loads of character deaths, resurrerections and revelations. love triangles, quadrangles and hexangles. Mysterys, answers and more mysteries. Finally lost has fulfilled the destiny we have all been waiting for, Finally ..........Sawyer kicked Jack in the balls

Lost is complete for me now, I don't even have to watch the sixth season, I have closure on lost.

Leon11

I don't know if it's been mentioned but when the group are transporting Locke's body in the raft they talk about the pilot. They're arguing about bringing him and Allana says "that doesn't mean he's not important", guy turns around and says "what, you think he's a candidate?". Too tired to further elaborate right now.

Mr.Nice Guy

8

Not going to bother reading the whole thread (13 pages!) but from browsing a few of them it seems opinions are quite mixed. I'll be honest I was quite disappointed up until the final moments of the episode where I thought things really became gripping. I'd give it a 9 therefore. I did find it more disappointing than finales to recent seasons but I guess expectations are high for this show.

I must say I'm disappointed that Jacob isn't a Lostie. I thought that would be a major reveal in the show. I did figure out that the box contained Locke's body from listening to the conversation Frank had with Ilana's sidekick. Just the way he phrased things kind of gave it away for me. I am going to be sad if Locke (the one we know and love) is now gone from the show and we will just have possessed Locke from now on.

I'm sad Lost is over for another year though, and only one more season left.

PS on a sidenote, anyone else think when Jack was running with the bomb on his back that he looked a bit like a ghostbuster?

cooker3

I just watched it 2nd time round. It is much much better on 2nd viewing.
I have to say I thought Elizabeth Mitchell put in a fantastic performance throughout the episode. I was never a huge Juliet fan but it will be sad to see her go if this is it. There was definitely the sound of an explosion right at the end, not a time or island jump.

Mr Nice guy: 40 post per page!

Mr.Nice Guy

8

cooker3 wrote: »

I just watched it 2nd time round. It is much much better on 2nd viewing.
I have to say I thought Elizabeth Mitchell put in a fantastic performance throughout the episode. I was never a huge Juliet fan but it will be sad to see her go if this is it.

+1. I predicted she would die at the end of this season as I felt her character was going nowhere but the Sawyer storyline really helped and she's played the role really well this season.

nitrogen

9

I thought the acting from Michael Emerson (Ben) in the scene with Jacob was outstanding.

I would also hazard a guess that Jacob disguised himself as a Lostie at some stage, which might be revealed through a flashback in the next season. I really hope we see more of the actor that played Jacob.

nitrogen

9

LZ5by5 wrote: »

For anyone who is interested, I posted a theory on Dark UFO in the aftermath of "The Incident". It has been seemingly been well received.:D It's my fourth theory, never got anything under 3 stars.:P

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2009/05/john-locke-will-personify-both-good-and.html#comments

Interesting theory but I think audiences might get tired of seeing so much of one actor. I honestly can't see it happening.

Cake Man

7

nitrogen wrote: »

I thought the acting from Michael Emerson (Ben) in the scene with Jacob was outstanding.

I would also hazard a guess that Jacob disguised himself as a Lostie at some stage, which might be revealed through a flashback in the next season. I really hope we see more of the actor that played Jacob.

+1. Thought it was excellent. Yeah I think the more we see of him, the more the plot will probably open up. Who was the guy with Jacob at the start of the episode does anyone know??

thebigcheese22

8

Cake Man wrote: »

+1. Thought it was excellent. Yeah I think the more we see of him, the more the plot will probably open up. Who was the guy with Jacob at the start of the episode does anyone know??

Noone knows yet. A lot of people on boards are calling him Esau, the brother of Jacob in the Bible. I think that's the most likely answer, as apparantly Esau means hairy and the black dressed dude was unshaved. Also, he looked older than Jacob, and this is the case in the Bible.

Thought it was a very good episode, gonna watch it again on RTE tonight. Terry O Quinn has stated that he's going be playing a different character next year so I'm pretty sure old Locke is dead and ain't coming back. As good a character as he was, I think this was the best end for hin. When he talked about his fate all the time, he was right. He just didn't know that this fate was to be a loophole for Esau's nefarious ends.

I really hope that the bomb going off will somehow revive Jacob. I don't believe he's dead, it was just too easy for Ben to stab him and he didn't defend himself. Mark Pellegrino was excellent in this episode, and it really was worth all of 2/3 seasons to meet Jacob. I think its fair to say that the 'Jacob' which said 'Help me' to Locke was Esau and not Jacob. Also Esau kicking him into the fire will have consequences tho, as it was against the rules and I think it is for this reason that he's not dead.

I just loved the symbolism of the opening scene and the backgammon game with Walt back in Season 1 has shown much more significance after this. Jack, Sawyer and the Losties will be transported back to 2007 and it is now a fight between good and evil - Losties, Jacob, Richard, Illana, Bram etc, maybe Widmore? vs Esau, Ben, Smokie, Christian, Claire.

Can't wait for Season 6!

Cake Man

7

Ohrite I see, yeah I don't believe we have seen the last of Jacob anyway. What I'm somewhat confused about is how Locke is dead in the box and how he is alive walking around at the same time, are they the same people like? Also, when is Season 6 starting? Must be sometime next year (Feb maybe) I would guess??

Mr.Nice Guy

8

Cake Man wrote: »

What I'm somewhat confused about is how Locke is dead in the box and how he is alive walking around at the same time, are they the same people like?

No, the Locke walking around is not the Locke that Ben strangled. It's someone (or something) else.

thebigcheese22

8

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

No, the Locke walking around is not the Locke that Ben strangled. It's someone (or something) else.

From the loophole comment, its a fairly reasonable assumption that it is the guy in the black shirt at the start...

Agamemnon

8

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

No, the Locke walking around is not the Locke that Ben strangled. It's someone (or something) else.

What should we call it? Evil Locke? Smokey Locke? Smock?

Mr.Nice Guy

8

Agamemnon wrote: »

What should we call it? Evil Locke? Smokey Locke? Smock?

I read on Lostpedia the character being referred to as Un-Locke which I thought was quite good.

Volvagia

4

I've read most of these posts and i dont think this has been mentioned, but how did Un-Locke know that time travelling locke was going appear at the plane with a bullet in his leg and know to tell richard to go and heal him.

If he's an imposter how does he have lockes memories.


Overall i was underwhelmed, not very satisfied.