[US/IRL] 5X16/17 - "The Incident" - 2 Hour Season Finale [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

homerun_homer

9

jengod: McPherson re Elizabeth Mitchell: “Fantastic actress and thrilled to be able to have her do both…You’ll see her on Lost, but V is her next piece.”

Read a bit about this on Docarzt in relation to Liz Mitchell being in both V and Lost.

Axwell

ZappaFrank wrote: »

I know Christian Shephard is suppose to be Aarons father

Seriously man thats just wrong hahahaha Christian is supposed to be Claire and Jacks father not Aarons

PetKing

8

Dont think it's been mentioned yet, but Michael Giacchino is THE MAN!! Jacob's theme was just right.

Mr.Nice Guy

8

uncleoswald wrote: »

Locke was wrong, they are not important or special, never have been, they were conned (a running theme throughout Lost.) They are simple pawns used and discarded in a fight that they can't understand, that has lasted centuries, and will now try to put an end to.

I think it's a bit early to be writing off Locke like that. I'd be very surprised (and saddened!) if Locke isn't vindicated in the final season.

I also think people are writing off the time travel/scientific element of the show very easily. For instance how do we know for definite that Jacob is not a time traveller? We saw him apparently observing the Black Rock which means he is either some kind of immortal, or - and this would go down the time travel/science road - he's from the future himself.

I saw on Lostpedia it was noted that the exchange between Jacob and the figure in black was not an exchange one would associate with people from the 1800s.

cooker3

PetKing wrote: »

Dont think it's been mentioned yet, but Michael Giacchino is THE MAN!! Jacob's theme was just right.

Totally agree. I have never been much of a music guy but Giacchino does an incredible job with Lost, it's a big part of the show. Season 4 soundtrack came out last week as well. Great stuff on that.

Old_-_School

I think next season will have a "waking up and seeing Bobby in the shower" feel to it.

Bard

God this is getting a bit Matrixey... the conflict that has raged on and repeated for ages but can finally end now, forever...

hmm...

Sherifu

9

Old_-_School wrote: »

I think next season will have a "waking up and seeing Bobby in the shower" feel to it.

The internet would implode.

I'd love to see it happen for the laugh though.

Basq

Imagine if it ended with a flight attendant waking up Jack from a "crazy dream" as Oceanic Flight 815 landed, without incident, in Los Angeles.

[-0-]

9

basquille wrote: »

Imagine if it ended with a flight attendant waking up Jack from a "crazy dream" as Oceanic Flight 815 landed, without incident, in Los Angeles.

His first thought would be... are my nuts still there?

uncleoswald

5

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think it's a bit early to be writing off Locke like that. I'd be very surprised (and saddened!) if Locke isn't vindicated in the final season.

I also think people are writing off the time travel/scientific element of the show very easily. For instance how do we know for definite that Jacob is not a time traveller? We saw him apparently observing the Black Rock which means he is either some kind of immortal, or - and this would go down the time travel/science road - he's from the future himself.

I saw on Lostpedia it was noted that the exchange between Jacob and the figure in black was not an exchange one would associate with people from the 1800s.

I'm not really writing off Locke as I don't think they would have the balls to kill such a central character especially one so popular (seems to be the hero of the show to most.) He has been central to the notion of destiny on the island. The fact that he was one that Jacob touched suggests he is still important. However as far as I see it that notion of destiny has changed as of the last episode. And I'd be gutted if the show ended as a huge vindication for Locke as in my opinion his actions and opinions have been self serving, self important and thankfully now seemingly delusional. Before we saw that Lock was really "esau" I was thinking that the writers were turning Locke into Ben, that notions of his own worth to the island had corrupted him just as they might have done once to Ben. I actually still wish they had done this as it would have been a nice twist. If Locke turns into an "Aslan" type character I may actually be sick. I hate that band.

I also don't think we have seen the end of the time travel, it would be far too convinient if the losties just popped back to present day and it was forgotten about. Also we don't even know why they wen't back yet and who made them go back. And I also wouldn't rule out the fact that Richard, Jacob or whoever have been travelling through time, i think there is more to come on that.

purple_hatstand

uncleoswald wrote: »

I also don't think we have seen the end of the time travel, it would be far too convinient if the losties just popped back to present day and it was forgotten about. Also we don't even know why they wen't back yet and who made them go back. And I also wouldn't rule out the fact that Richard, Jacob or whoever have been travelling through time, i think there is more to come on that.

Maybe Darlton was bluffing in the last podcast. It wouldn't be the first time:D

Johnmb

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is with regard to Jacob's relationship with the Others. Richard works for Jacob, but the Others seem to work for Richard, who just tells them to do what he claims Jacob has said. We know Ben, supposed leader of the Others never met Jacob. Do we have any reason to believe that Widmore or Hawking have ever met him either? Also, in the trip to the 50's the Losties took, it was Richard who seemed to be directly leading the Others, Widmore and Hawking seemed to be just foot soldiers, with no other main character being mentioned during Lockes conversation. Finally, it would seem to have been Jack who got Locke the job as Leader. Richard asks Jack what the story with Locke was. If the Others were working directly for Jacob, then surely he would be the one to pick the Leader, and Richard would not be checking out Locke, he would just go with whatever Jacob said.

uncleoswald

5

Johnmb wrote: »

Finally, it would seem to have been Jack who got Locke the job as Leader. Richard asks Jack what the story with Locke was. If the Others were working directly for Jacob, then surely he would be the one to pick the Leader, and Richard would not be checking out Locke, he would just go with whatever Jacob said.

And Locke himself when he told Richard to go see a child named John Locke as he was special. A self fulfilling prophecy. Has Richard said he has talked to Jacob?

I don't think The Others follow Richard but he seems to take control when there is no "Leader." But the fact that he seems to choose this Leader suggests he has more control then he lets on. His comment along the lines of Locke been "more trouble then he's worth" could be telling as to his true intentions.

homerun_homer

9

uncleoswald wrote: »

And Locke himself when he told Richard to go see a child named John Locke as he was special. A self fulfilling prophecy. Has Richard said he has talked to Jacob?

I don't think The Others follow Richard but he seems to take control when there is no "Leader." But the fact that he seems to choose this Leader suggests he has more control then he lets on. His comment along the lines of Locke been "more trouble then he's worth" could be telling as to his true intentions.

Locke has been more trouble than he is worth is true because it was Evil-Locke who was frustrating Richard. If it was real Locke he may have arrived and caught up with Richard and asked "Now, what's next? What do you need me to do?"

uncleoswald

5

homerun_homer wrote: »

Locke has been more trouble than he is worth is true because it was Evil-Locke who was frustrating Richard. If it was real Locke he may have arrived and caught up with Richard and asked "Now, what's next? What do you need me to do?"

But didn't Richard seem a little too easily frustrated by Locke? He didn't want a leader who called the shots he seems to want to call the shots himself, like he just wanted Locke as a puppet Leader. And as far as I could tell Widmore and Eloise were in charge in the 70's and he also didn't seem to hold them with much regard, refusing to consulte them when he took Ben and knocking Eloise out in the last episode. Could he have enginered their exhile when they got too big for their boots? And he was very quick to remove Ben as leader once Locke showed up.

leggo

8

But didn't Richard seem a little too easily frustrated by Locke? He didn't want a leader who called the shots he seems to want to call the shots himself, like he just wanted Locke as a puppet Leader. And as far as I could tell Widmore and Eloise were in charge in the 70's and he also didn't seem to hold them with much regard, refusing to consulte them when he took Ben and knocking Eloise out in the last episode. Could he have enginered their exhile when they got too big for their boots? And he was very quick to remove Ben as leader once Locke showed up.

I see it as a case of Richard simply being Jacob's messenger. Think of Jacob like a corporate CEO and Richard is his secretary. The Managing Director downstairs mightn't have any authority over the secretary...but it doesn't mean the secretary can go and boss around the MD's staff.

He's simply a go-between. I think the past two episodes have shown that Richard doesn't really have any power - but he can make serious decisions (if need be) acting on Jacob's behalf.

Johnmb

leggo wrote: »

I see it as a case of Richard simply being Jacob's messenger. Think of Jacob like a corporate CEO and Richard is his secretary. The Managing Director downstairs mightn't have any authority over the secretary...but it doesn't mean the secretary can go and boss around the MD's staff.

He's simply a go-between. I think the past two episodes have shown that Richard doesn't really have any power - but he can make serious decisions (if need be) acting on Jacob's behalf.

That's what I originally thought, but in this case the MD seems to have been appointed by the secretary, which is not what I expected. If Jacob was the one doing the appointing, why would Richard be wasting so much time following up on what Locke said? He'd only have to wait for Jacob to give the word, no need to be making trips to see younger Locke, or to be asking Jack about him.

ArmaniJeanss

9

Our last end-of-season-cliffhanger, its actually quite a sad moment.
Ironically enough it was close to the sort of cliffhanger many expected at the end of season 2 (except in Season2 I expected an explosion at the Swan caused by the failure to push a button).

The episode itself was just fantastic, even for a timetravel sceptic like myself who has found Series5 a chore at times. The opening scene, just wow. I'd struggle to remember a scene quite so brilliantly executed, the best shock-and-awe moment for me since 'We have to go back'.

Kudos to the writers for yet again being able to introduce new actors/characters (Jacob/Esau and previously Farraday/Miles/Roger) at a late stage and fitting them seamlessly into the overall story.

Bits and pieces of the episodes were patchy (Lindelof/Cuse really to get someone to write their female characters more convincingly) but there was enough good stuff to ease into a 10/10 mark.

Basq

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Our last end-of-season-cliffhanger, its actually quite a sad moment.

Good point sir.. never even thought of that!

jackdaw

7

Surely it couldn't be them just landing in LAX as strangers ? that is the same cop out as 'it was all a dream' ..

JLemmon

Sad Professor wrote: »

Perelandra perhaps? It was part of Lewis' space trilogy. I haven't read it but apparently it does have quite a few Lost parallels.

The writers did mention Narnia as an influence recently and admitted that Charlotte's name was a nod to C.S. Lewis.

Thanks, yeah I found it since.
Lots of interesting stuff to find if your interested in investigating the cultural
references in Lost, mainly books but nevertheless, never really went near Stephen King stuff before but now I'm lashing into The Stand and On Writing,
Thank you Lost for introducing me to Flann o Brien.:)

jackdaw

7

anotherlostie wrote: »

...and a huge reveal about Locke, who I also presume is the guy who refused the fish from Jacob at the start.

Why are most people assuming this ? have i missed something ?

Earthhorse

jackdaw wrote: »

Why are most people assuming this ? have i missed something ?

Because Jacob up said to him "Looks like you found your loophole". Given all we know this is the only sensible conclusion to come to. I understand Lost has double-bluffed us before but for the moment this is the only conclusion that makes any sense.

homerun_homer

9

jackdaw wrote: »

Why are most people assuming this ? have i missed something ?

Because he mentioned the loophole to Jacob at the beginning and Jacob says to him before being murdered "I see you found your loophole". If that doesn't spell it out then nothing will.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Kudos to the writers for yet again being able to introduce new actors/characters (Jacob/Esau and previously Farraday/Miles/Roger) at a late stage and fitting them seamlessly into the overall story.

Agreed, they really do know how to bring in great new characters - Nicky and Paolo not included I just think back to shows like Friends in which the writers just hadn't a clue how to write in a new character and make them stick. I know it's a sitcom compared to drama but it's true, it's all in the writing and the people they get to play the part.

purple_hatstand

And Locke himself when he told Richard to go see a child named John Locke as he was special. A self fulfilling prophecy. Has Richard said he has talked to Jacob?

I don't think The Others follow Richard but he seems to take control when there is no "Leader." But the fact that he seems to choose this Leader suggests he has more control then he lets on. His comment along the lines of Locke been "more trouble then he's worth" could be telling as to his true intentions.

Locke has been more trouble than he is worth is true because it was Evil-Locke who was frustrating Richard. If it was real Locke he may have arrived and caught up with Richard and asked "Now, what's next? What do you need me to do?"

But didn't Richard seem a little too easily frustrated by Locke? He didn't want a leader who called the shots he seems to want to call the shots himself, like he just wanted Locke as a puppet Leader. And as far as I could tell Widmore and Eloise were in charge in the 70's and he also didn't seem to hold them with much regard, refusing to consulte them when he took Ben and knocking Eloise out in the last episode. Could he have enginered their exhile when they got too big for their boots? And he was very quick to remove Ben as leader once Locke showed up.

I see it as a case of Richard simply being Jacob's messenger. Think of Jacob like a corporate CEO and Richard is his secretary. The Managing Director downstairs mightn't have any authority over the secretary...but it doesn't mean the secretary can go and boss around the MD's staff.

He's simply a go-between. I think the past two episodes have shown that Richard doesn't really have any power - but he can make serious decisions (if need be) acting on Jacob's behalf.

That's what I originally thought, but in this case the MD seems to have been appointed by the secretary, which is not what I expected. If Jacob was the one doing the appointing, why would Richard be wasting so much time following up on what Locke said? He'd only have to wait for Jacob to give the word, no need to be making trips to see younger Locke, or to be asking Jack about him.

All this stuff is on a 'need-to-know' basis. There seems to be a heirarchy of knowledge which goes (top-down) as follows:

Jacob (+ Esau?)
Richard
Ben/Charles/Eloise
Others (+ 'Shadow of the Statue' Gang?)
Losties

We already know that Jacob made Richard the way he is (ie ageless) and we assume that he is from the 'Black Rock'. Certain secrets or powers have been safeguarded to him by Jacob - and the 'Others' who follow him around are probably descendants of his ship-mates. It is standard practice in many organisations to insulate the leader and protect him - think of the Mafia or Sadam Hussein's lookalikes. Often this can be done by installing 'proxy' leaders and in this case, Charles Widmore was a perfect candidate because of his military background - what you actually have is bodyguard/team leader/mouthpiece but he doesn't have to know anything really in order to act as a pretty good 'leader'.

Ben is a different case because we have known for some time that Richard had some influence over him from when he was a boy. It is likely that he knows more and would be closer to Richard than Widmore ever was; but Richard still never revealed Jacob to him. He also had a more 'entrepreneurial' spirit than Widmore but was still a proxy - a means of protecting Richard and safeguarding secrets he probably still has little or no knowledge of.

Locke is/was a pawn. We now know that it was Jack who told Richard not to 'give up' on Locke. Richard had already visited him and discounted him as a potential leader. Ben & Richard clearly do not recognise who/what Un-Locke is but they're suspicious and wary nonetheless because Un-Locke knows stuff nobody else knows and nobody else has ever been this forthright before.

cls

Am I the only one wondering what the electormagnetic source is? And if the bomb alters the future so that the plane doesn't crash, then that means in the new timeline they don't go back in time to set the bomb off.

Big Nelly

cls wrote: »

Am I the only one wondering what the electormagnetic source is? And if the bomb alters the future so that the plane doesn't crash, then that means in the new timeline they don't go back in time to set the bomb off.

They cant change time, there will be no new timeline. I guess they will just jump back to the correct timeline.

leggo

8

Surely it couldn't be them just landing in LAX as strangers ? that is the same cop out as 'it was all a dream' ..

I don't see why people think this is a likely scenario.

Farraday guessed that would be a result from his 'variables' theory. Scientists do that all the time. They go into an experiment...that they know will prove SOMETHING...but often the result is completely different to what they first imagined. Though we haven't been privy to Farraday's notebook, I'd imagine the 'everyone lands in LAX safely' theory is just an educated guess. It mightn't even go that far. Farraday may have just made that scenario up to convince Jack to follow through his experiment if the worst happened (which it did).

I think they've made way too much of a big deal about people being able to change things to just turn around and say, no, no they changed nothing. If that was the case then Miles wouldn't have noted how they may be the one's CAUSING the incident...because that would underline how dumb the characters are for following through with the plan.

Something's gonna happen...just probably not the LAX scenario. Keep in mind that if you change the past, you also change the future too (since people then make their decisions based on the incidents that have been changed in the past...the butterfly effect).

Linguo

What if the plane crashes but now everyone knows whats going to happen so they write the wrongs and prevent deaths and stuff?

purple_hatstand

leggo wrote: »

I don't see why people think this is a likely scenario.

Farraday guessed that would be a result from his 'variables' theory. Scientists do that all the time. They go into an experiment...that they know will prove SOMETHING...but often the result is completely different to what they first imagined. Though we haven't been privy to Farraday's notebook, I'd imagine the 'everyone lands in LAX safely' theory is just an educated guess. It mightn't even go that far. Farraday may have just made that scenario up to convince Jack to follow through his experiment if the worst happened (which it did).

I think they've made way too much of a big deal about people being able to change things to just turn around and say, no, no they changed nothing. If that was the case then Miles wouldn't have noted how they may be the one's CAUSING the incident...because that would underline how dumb the characters are for following through with the plan.

Something's gonna happen...just probably not the LAX scenario. Keep in mind that if you change the past, you also change the future too (since people then make their decisions based on the incidents that have been changed in the past...the butterfly effect).

Maybe the dumbness of the Losties needs to be underlined because they're, erm, dumb. Well, maybe not dumb exactly...but not scientists. This was explained at length in "Whatever Happened, Happened" (the clue is in the title) also in these episode threads and other threads that have popped up throughout Season5. There have been many instances of Losties unwittingly causing to happen the very thing they were trying to prevent - remember that Ben would not have been taken by Richard into the Temple had he not been shot by Sayid.

We have yet to see the immediate effects of the nuclear explosion but it is entirely likely that the effects of the electromagnetic release on its own would have been far worse.

The 'Variable' that Farraday spoke about in the episode of the same name is not the fact that humans in all their infinite uniqueness CAN change things......It's that they HOPE they can change things. This is a recurring theme in existentialism and science fiction.

homerun_homer

9

The Writers have stated that future events, i.e. 2007 cannot be changed - they wouldn't do that to us viewers they insisted. Changing things and hoping to land in LAX is a pipedream.

On a side note of curiosity - didn't the pilot say that they were lost and off course about a thousand miles before they crashed, so who is to say that if they could prevent the hatch being made that they would have landed safely in LAX.

cls

Big Nelly wrote: »

They cant change time, there will be no new timeline. I guess they will just jump back to the correct timeline.

They already have changed time by being back in 1977. Besides, who says they can't change time? Time travel is not real, its science fiction. Therefore anything goes.

purple_hatstand

cls wrote: »

They already have changed time by being back in 1977. Besides, who says they can't change time? Time travel is not real, its science fiction. Therefore anything goes.

The time-travel stuff in LOST is theoretical physics, not magic

cooker3

cls wrote: »

They already have changed time by being back in 1977. Besides, who says they can't change time? Time travel is not real, its science fiction. Therefore anything goes.

No they haven't changed time. They always went back to 1977. As for who says it, the people who write the show say it and said it over and over again in interviews and on the show.
Think about it chronologically. In 1970 the dharma initiative is setup. In 1974 Sawyer, juliet et al arrive. They assimilate themselves and live within Dharmaville until 1977. They are then involved in the incident. In 1980 Cheng now known as Marvin Candle records swan video talking about the incident. Radsinski lives in the swan. Kelvin arrives and then Desmond and ultimately 815 crashes. This is the sole and 1 and only time line. We just happen to see it from certain peoples perspective who experience of the time line is funky.

homerun_homer wrote: »

The Writers have stated that future events, i.e. 2007 cannot be changed - they wouldn't do that to us viewers they insisted. Changing things and hoping to land in LAX is a pipedream.

I wouldn't call it a pipedream. I think it would just be horrible and a huge cop-out if they tried to pull that card. It makes everything that happened in 5 season totally irrelevant. It's a cheap trick from people who have ran out of ideas and find themselves in a corner so just reset their universe. I would never expect this of Darlton.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The episode itself was just fantastic, even for a timetravel sceptic like myself who has found Series5 a chore at times. The opening scene, just wow. I'd struggle to remember a scene quite so brilliantly executed, the best shock-and-awe moment for me since 'We have to go back'.

Kudos to the writers for yet again being able to introduce new actors/characters (Jacob/Esau and previously Farraday/Miles/Roger) at a late stage and fitting them seamlessly into the overall story.

Totally agree. I had a Hurley moment. When <Esau> said Jacob and then as he walks off you see the statue I just said "Woah"
Absolutely incredible opening scene. (I really liked the Jacob music as well)

As a by the by it's why I think the final ever scene of Lost will nor be some mindf*ck it's purgatory type reveal. If they waited until the end to reveal Jacob it wouldn't have had the same impact and there just wouldn't have been the time to develop the story like they did.

Redsoxfan

basquille wrote: »

So, we finally get to meet Rita's druggie ex-husband... I mean Jacob. It was interesting to see how he reacted with the characters at various stages but overall, I didn't think it added much (bar his altercation with Locke).

Who is Rita?

Bounty Hunter

7

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Who is Rita?

the title characters GF in the show Dexter, her ex was played by the guy who plays Jacob and it is where he would be best known from probably before being cast as Jacob.

Killaqueen!!!

Wow this is a long thread! Haven't read much of it so excuse me for repeating things...

I liked this episode. The second half of this series really picked up because I wasn't convinced earlier. This was a great episode in comparison to the earlier episodes in this series, but overall when you look at it, it's probably the worst season finale ever...which is a little disappointing.

I really liked the Jacob stuff - as a character anyway, wasn't too keen on the actor which is a shame. Thought he was very bland. Loved the symbolism and religious references in this episode.

Should've coped on earlier that it wasn't really Locke because I was so confused as to why he would want to kill Jacob.

Great to see Vincent again!! Thought the scenes with Rose and Bernard were cringeworthy, but nice to see them again I guess - where are all the other minor survivors of Oceanic 815? This kinda stuff annoys me.

No Claire

Ridiculous that Juliet survived that fall :mad: Was crying though when she slipped from Sawyers hands :eek:

Just like earlier when we weren't convinced of O6 reasons to go back, I wasn't convinced of Jack and co. wanting to set off the bomb. Didn't really make sense to me why Jack, if he's in love with Kate, would want to go back to not ever having met her. Juliets reason was sh1tty too.

Anyone else think that Sayid rigged the bomb so that it wouldn't set off? He said something like 'theres no saving me' which made me think he wanted to die, and if the bomb was set off he believed he'd be back in LAX as if nothing ever happehned

Niall0

5

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

Great to see Vincent again!! Thought the scenes with Rose and Bernard were cringeworthy, but nice to see them again I guess - where are all the other minor survivors of Oceanic 815? This kinda stuff annoys me.

All the other survivors were killed off in the early episodes of this season.

uncleoswald

5

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Who is Rita?

originally posted by Bounty Hunter the title characters GF in the show Dexter, her ex was played by the guy who plays Jacob and it is where he would be best known from probably before being cast as Jacob.

Oh I presumed it was a reference to Mulholland Dr. which Mark Pellegrino was also in and one of the main characters was called Rita.

originally posted by Killaqueen!!! Anyone else think that Sayid rigged the bomb so that it wouldn't set off? He said something like 'theres no saving me' which made me think he wanted to die, and if the bomb was set off he believed he'd be back in LAX as if nothing ever happehned

Maybe but why help at all then? I think Sayid and his motives have just been underwritten all season long.

originally posted by Niall0 All the other survivors were killed off in the early episodes of this season.

Do we know they were all killed for sure? It was odd that Sawyer was looking for the survivors for 3 years and then he didn't ask Bernard and Rose what happened to the rest of them.

leggo

8

Maybe the dumbness of the Losties needs to be underlined because they're, erm, dumb. Well, maybe not dumb exactly...but not scientists. This was explained at length in "Whatever Happened, Happened" (the clue is in the title) also in these episode threads and other threads that have popped up throughout Season5. There have been many instances of Losties unwittingly causing to happen the very thing they were trying to prevent - remember that Ben would not have been taken by Richard into the Temple had he not been shot by Sayid.

We have yet to see the immediate effects of the nuclear explosion but it is entirely likely that the effects of the electromagnetic release on its own would have been far worse.

The 'Variable' that Farraday spoke about in the episode of the same name is not the fact that humans in all their infinite uniqueness CAN change things......It's that they HOPE they can change things. This is a recurring theme in existentialism and science fiction.

Thing is though, if they're going to do something that dumb...especially after Miles has pointed out the possibility for it...then why would I, as a viewer, invest time and emotion into those characters?

I was sold on the fact that Jack was walking into a big mistake until the finale. But now they've made SUCH a big deal out of it...to have integral characters like Sawyer and Kate have a change of heart and help Jack...to sacrifice Juliet...to leave the season on a cliffhanger...

If the writer's were to go with as simple a scenario as 'They caused the incident. Whatever happened, happened,' would be suicide. It would tell people that everything they had cared about in Season 5 was all for none.

Damon and Carlton know this. Where they're going with this...I know as much as the next guy...but there's SOME significance to the bomb. Jack HAS to achieve something through it or else the show is going nowhere in the final season. It'll likely tie in with 'Whatever happened, happened'...even if it's simply a case of 'Jack always set off the nuclear bomb and the group always disappeared into thin air and ended in in 2007'

uncleoswald

5

leggo wrote: »

Thing is though, if they're going to do something that dumb...especially after Miles has pointed out the possibility for it...then why would I, as a viewer, invest time and emotion into those characters?

I was sold on the fact that Jack was walking into a big mistake until the finale. But now they've made SUCH a big deal out of it...to have integral characters like Sawyer and Kate have a change of heart and help Jack...to sacrifice Juliet...to leave the season on a cliffhanger...

If the writer's were to go with as simple a scenario as 'They caused the incident. Whatever happened, happened,' would be suicide. It would tell people that everything they had cared about in Season 5 was all for none.

Damon and Carlton know this. Where they're going with this...I know as much as the next guy...but there's SOME significance to the bomb. Jack HAS to achieve something through it or else the show is going nowhere in the final season. It'll likely tie in with 'Whatever happened, happened'...even if it's simply a case of 'Jack always set off the nuclear bomb and the group always disappeared into thin air and ended in in 2007'

I agree, somthing must have been acheived. At the very least it stopped the incident been worse then it was and destroying the island. It doesn't make much sense if it just results in them popping back to 2007, how would they explain that one?

purple_hatstand

leggo wrote: »

Thing is though, if they're going to do something that dumb...especially after Miles has pointed out the possibility for it...then why would I, as a viewer, invest time and emotion into those characters?

I was sold on the fact that Jack was walking into a big mistake until the finale. But now they've made SUCH a big deal out of it...to have integral characters like Sawyer and Kate have a change of heart and help Jack...to sacrifice Juliet...to leave the season on a cliffhanger...

If the writer's were to go with as simple a scenario as 'They caused the incident. Whatever happened, happened,' would be suicide. It would tell people that everything they had cared about in Season 5 was all for none.

Damon and Carlton know this. Where they're going with this...I know as much as the next guy...but there's SOME significance to the bomb. Jack HAS to achieve something through it or else the show is going nowhere in the final season. It'll likely tie in with 'Whatever happened, happened'...even if it's simply a case of 'Jack always set off the nuclear bomb and the group always disappeared into thin air and ended in in 2007'

Any creative work (fiction, music, art) requires an emotional connection between audience and subject for it to be engaging and successful. We identify with the charcteristics and personalities of the Losties precisely because we see ourselves in them and the decisions they make. Your hope that Jack has managed to change something is exactly the same as his hope - in spite of all available evidence to the contrary.

From 'The Matrix: Reloaded'[2002]
ARCHITECT (to NEO): Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion; simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

NEO went on to successfully save the life of Trinity and then the entire human race in the third film - one of the (many) reasons why the sequels were critically panned.

The same kind of scenario might occur in Season6 of LOST, but if the writers stick to their guns, it won't have anything to do with time-travel. The Losties have not been able to shape their own destinies thus far (and, as we saw in Season5, they were unable to harness the power of time-travel to their purpose - in fact, they didn't even know what their purpose was) - rather, if they are to 'succeed', it will most likely be through those most human of traits: hope, perserverance and the indomitable human spirit

bob04

Jacob cant be dead ????

If 1977 is the past, then Jacob still has to meet everyone in the Future (Kate shoplifting, Jin's Wedding, Locke's Window Fall)

Therefore Jacob is alive and well and will be seen in the future yet!!!

Sad Professor

9

bob04 wrote: »

Jacob cant be dead ????

If 1977 is the past, then Jacob still has to meet everyone in the Future (Kate shoplifting, Jin's Wedding, Locke's Window Fall)

Therefore Jacob is alive and well and will be seen in the future yet!!!

Jacob was stabbed in 2007 not 1977. It's Jack and co who are in 1977.

bob04

Sad Professor wrote: »

Jacob was stabbed in 2007 not 1977. It's Jack and co who are in 1977.

LOL


My bad!!!!

Still trying to my head around it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blazer

9

BastardPrince wrote: »

anyone notice how surprised unlocke is when Ben tells him about Alex in the temple?

exactly..lots of people forgetting this..really looking forward to next season.

Mr.Nice Guy

8

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

exactly..lots of people forgetting this..really looking forward to next season.

I think he feigned surprise. It was part of the manipulation of Ben. Remember Ben had to think this was the real John Locke and the real John Locke wouldn't just sit there and say, "Oh you saw your dead daughter did you? That's nice. Anyway we better keep moving."

uncleoswald

5

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think he feigned surprise. It was part of the manipulation of Ben. Remember Ben had to think this was the real John Locke and the real John Locke wouldn't just sit there and say, "Oh you saw your dead daughter did you? That's nice. Anyway we better keep moving."

I also imagine that he was fairly surprised that Ben told him about it. I'm not reading too much into it just yet.

Also was it after this conversation that Locke told Ben that he would be the one to kill Jacob?

MadPatrick

7

The fact that Locke told Richard to tell old timey Locke that he had to die means that what happened can be changed. Also we have to take into account that when the screen went white when Juliet was beating the bomb, maybe she didn't set it off, or she did to stop the crazyness that seems to happen (ie. planes crashing and the like, possibly Renee's boat) but it also went the way it went when they time jumped(excellent idea by the way). But I don't assume to be clever enough to anticipate what a drama writer and a sci fi writer can come up with when they put their heads together.
The best season of Lost so far, and in the the top 5 seasons of any TV show ever.
Bring on season 6